There is hope!!!

Kids say the darndest things!

If Bush says "we've done nothing illegal" then that should be the end of the discussion. If he says anything with enough conviction then it is so; regardless of whether the facts support his assertion or not.

Our government states "the U.S. has not tortured detainees." In addition to that, our government should not be complicit in any type of torture, even through "rendition" where people are taken to other countries to have these other countries inflict torture for US.

Of course we don't "torture" (thanks to Bush's technical definition). The U.S. just does cruel, inhumane things that most Americans would object to. Then Bush repeats that we don't "torture," the media "reports" this without explaining his re-definition of that term, and most people (erroneously) feel reassured.

The story is too cursory. What did the students say in response? Why not at least get reactions from some of them? Was the reporter too busy? Wasn't an assistant available to ask a few additional questions? Was newsprint really expensive yesterday? What's the purpose for stories being so short?

Note also that the event is billed as a "confrontation" by the CNN writer. Why? Why is it that someone expressing his views is a "confrontation"? Is that standard usage in colloquial English?

More detail, please. Some of us actually want to know.

YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR OUR GOVERNMENT HAS ENGAGED IN SOME FORMS OF TORTURE AND NOT JUST AT ABU GRAB.
IF SO-IT WOULD BE A DISHONOR TO OUR GOOD MEN AND WOMEN SERVING.
BUSH AND CHEYNEY HAVE LIED TO US FROM DAY ONE AND IT IS TIME FOR HONEST GOVERNMENT.
NEXT UP: BUSH PARDONS SCOOTER LIBBY.
THIS ADMINISTRATION IS A JOKE.

What do high school student know about geopolitics? They have not lived long enough to understand the world they live in.

Soory I feel we should do what we have to do to get these insurgents talk .. they dont care about themselves let alone us…. Ive seen it firsthand

Sometimes you just have to smack people around when they won't do as you say. Kids, when you are old and cynical you'll understand and thank us.

He also said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq….

and let's not forget "Mission Accomplished."

If these so call students want to stop violation, they should talk about our troops being torture first. Until you have been in the front line you have noting to talk about

It seems this administration's definition of torture is different from the rest of the world. I'm glad the kids called asked him to stop torturing in the American's people's name, but unfortunately, this administration and particularly Cheney seem to rewrite the laws to fit what they want to do. I would like to ask Bush and Cheney if what they are doing is not torture, then would they mind if the same were done to their children or wives. I suspect they would have a whole different definition then. With what I have read, and quotes from inside the administration, I'm starting to wonder if war crimes haven't been committed. But then again, they will just push down the responsibility like the did for that stuff in the Iraq prison. Let the little soldiers take responsibility for the administration's direction. Way to support the troops.

Proof that brain washing is alive and well in our lovely liberal institutions. Hopefully the fists animating the student puppets at that meeting learned a lesson. Who am I kidding, that would take a brain cell or two.

If Bush says “we’ve done nothing illegal” then that should be the end of the discussion. If he says anything with enough conviction then it is so; regardless of whether the facts support his assertion or not.

Posted By sonny c. ville platte,la. : June 25, 2007 9:36 pm

huh?
If you're saying that even if the facts are against him, that we should just take this man at his word (on faith, as it were), then i feel sorry for you.
The American people have a general distrust of politicians and lawyers for a very good reason: most of them lie and distort truth in order to win/get more votes.
There is a distinct lack of oversight at the governmental level, and it's scary.
No one is above the law.
Just because someone says something with 'conviction' does not entitle them to the lack of oversight you seem to be implying.

Where was someone like sonny while Congress spent 6 years investigating person that Clinton had ever done business with in his life. That investigation never found squat.

It's good to see that the youth are concerned about their country and what their government is doing to others.

I commend the students for doing something which seems to be lacking in this war on terror, asking our leaders how far are we as a country willing to go. Immediately after 911 there was discussion about how we as a country should not let the terrorists change our lives, that would be their victory. Should we adopt methods never before contemplated to extract information from prisoners? I think not, we have been the haven for liberty and justice for all by sticking to fundamental rules of conflict resolution. If a crime has been commited, the state must prove beyond the shadow of doubt the guilt of the accused. Doubt is increased when confessions are coerced by cruel treatment. This process should be done in the open, not in some secret cells. Our strength is, "all men are created equal."

3 squares a day (while many gaining 35 pounds), prayer time, books etc, etc and that is what is called torture?

A few barking dogs, sleep deprivation and water boarding are real minute methods, but effective. The few jerks that put underwear on peoples heads were prosecuted, right?

One can only hope that using these methods AGAIN gets info from these terrorists that saves even the naysayers lives.

You want to know what real torture is, take a look at the kidnapped BBC journalist (not an enemy combatant like these dirtbags are) who has explosives strapped to himself by the "good guys" you liberals don't want "tortured".

Nice to see that the liberal indoctrination is still starting early in schools.

I'm appalled at some of the comments in here (Dr. Jack Ryan, lil lady, Bubba, Amy).

First off, Amy, these kids are some of the most intelligent young minds that we have in this country. But for some reason, you in your infinite wisdom have now determined that they're brainwashed by liberals. What does that say for the ease of brainwashing those less intelligent than them (i.e. the majority of our uninformed public). It's utterly baffling to me how the most educated are constantly ridiculed in this country and told that they don't understand the world. If the most learned people that we have don't understand, how do you profess to know more?

To the others, I'm completely not in favor of the terrorists, either, but their supporters (many of which we helped create) feel the same way as you. We watch beheadings on the news and it fosters the hate that we have for the enemy, even amongst those who initially might not have been as anti-Muslim (and don't try to kid me, anti-Muslim crime stats shot through the roof as a result of 9/11 and Iraq).

When we torture, that same hate and loathing is felt by anyone who feels victimized and plants the seeds that eventually can lead to terrorist support and action.

When 9/11 happened, the world supported us. Now, as a result of this sort of unethical behavior and our involvment in Iraq, that sentiment has shifted. This country has never won a major war by "going it alone," as we've always had support because we were a just and fair nation that abides by human rights protocol.

This administration is ruining that reputatation and endangering the future of this country at the same time. Dr. Jack Ryan, these kids may not have lived long enough for you to think that they understand geopolitics, but they'll be forced to deal with the effects of the Bush administration's lack of understanding long after you and I have passed. That's what they're worried about and why they're speaking out.

By Sonny C.: I was trying to be sarcastic. How'd ya'll miss that one?

Tom of Dedham, Mass,
Besides what side of the fight you're on, what's the difference between strapping explosives to someone's chest and making them think that they're going to drown?

In neither case was anyone killed, just made to think that they could die. It seems pretty equal in my eyes and both are sub-human methods of accomplishing your goals.

You might think it's OK since they're terrorists and the journalist wasn't, but just remember how many people that we've released from Gitmo that after years, were never charged with anything and released by their home nations (many of which were our allies). If they were really terrorists, I don't think we'd have allowed their release.

Jesus said,"unless you become like children, you will not find the Kingdom of God". Mt.18,3. Maybe Bush & the other self-proclaimed Christians should listen to what "even a child can see."

But, didn't Jesus say it was okay to torture people? The only thing He makes with His own hands in the whole Bible is a whip, which he uses to beat several people of a competing religion. Let us live as Christ would have wanted, whip in hand.

Ryan of New York, of all people a New Yorker should realize what destruction can be wrought by just 20 bad guys.

These "people" are taken from the battlefield and are not being taken from Iowa to be water boarded. If it means using these real "MINOR" tactics to save American lives, even yours, I say "By any means necessary".

These tactics have been used by other countries and guess what we are getting the needed information that is saving people.

If these people were being ripped off of our streets and having this done to them, I could see the point.

We have a choice here, bury our heads in the sand and wait for another USS Cole, USS embassies being bombed and MANY other terrorist acts that happened while Bill "But everyone loved us" Clinton was in charge or we can fight back a bit.

I choose to fight back.

Jesus also said "He who lives by the sword shall die by it" at the very moment where someone with a sword could have very well saved him from his own torture and death in a "just war."

Bubba: show me in the Four Gospels where Jesus did anything as violent or hateful as you claim he did. He did flip some tables of the $ guys at the Temple in Jerusalem but he forbade his followers to use violence when his captors came for him. Awaiting your response. Sonny

First of all, Cheney has misused the vice-presidency into making it him co-president, and he doesn't feel he needs to be held accountable to anyoone. Therefore, never take what he or his spokesmen say as the truth. You can lie only so many times.

Bless those students for having the COURAGE to stand-up for what they believe and not be intimidated by Bush.

Impressive…and they should be proud of what they did and how they felt that it had to be done.

I don't know those kids and the media will never show their faces…but that was one of the most inspiring stories I ever heard about students.

Correction…the letter was signed by 50 students.

Which I assume was ALL of them.

Too bad the media didn't tell us how many student there were in total. I am going to assume all of them signed the letter.

I can tell by the type of responses that most who write are against any type of penalization against these murduring terrorists. I am beginning to wonder if any of you are really "Americans" or "Internationalists". These murdering terrorists they put away are not the kind of people you want to live next door (or do you?). They would undoubtably torture you for your non-religious ways (great way to get your 15 minutes of fame). They torture and mass murder their own people in heinous ways. Now you want to give them rights when they have forsaken others rights. There is something illogical about your logic. Hitler and his minions should of been exterminated when the chance arose, what makes these people different. Besides your empathy for them and the chance to see them manupilate the media as they have already done.

I believe it was some representative in Florida that first said, "If it will save one American Life, then red is for positive and black is for negative". People we are at war with terrorists who think nothing of killing women and children. Do you think they won't do the same to you if they have the chance? WAKE UP!!

Tom,
Most New Yorkers feel similarly. If you didn't notice, we voted against Bush and his methods in fighting terrorism in enormous numbers in 2004.

To be honest, I'd think our voices would mean more to the rest of the country, seeing as how we were the ones attacked (and along with DC, have the most remaining targets), but instead it's people from Kansas and Idaho, states with no targets for terrorists to care about, whose ideas are being followed in the war on terror. I'd guess it's because we've gone through the healing process and tried to understand the motives of these people who destroyed part of our city and the lives of so many living in it, rather than just reacting to the event.

Secondly, as I mentioned before with no response, how many of the Gitmo detainees did we just release? If they were so dangerous, why were they released? Could it have been that after water-boarding them and using whatever other torturuous techniques we've used (search Maher Arar and see what we did and where we captured him), we found that they weren't involved?

Even with the number of terrorists that we've killed and imprisoned, the number has increased as a result of the US showing the world that we're no more humane than the people that we're fighting. We've gone past the point where our enemies were just a bunch of religious nutjobs and entered the realm where our enemies now include people who have a legitimate complaint with how US foreign policy is affecting them. To me, that's the opposite direction we should be going and just an invitation for more conflict.

Need I even mention the lack of support that this behavior is creating in the international community. People sympathize and support those who are innocent victims, but they say it's your own fault when you're an aggressor.

Fair enough Ryan, what do you suggest we do to combat a group of people whose stated mantra is to kill us, jews and anyone else that doesn't believe in what they believe?
8 years of attempted diplomacy. got us what exactly?
Do we sit around and wait for our ships, embassies and let's not forget the 1st WTC bombing to name a FEW, to happen again while doing next to nothing?
This knucklehead messed up the planning and execution of the war, but I agreed with his going after Saddam and if the Germans, Russians and Chineese all were not paid off by the Oil for food program, their additional pressure on Saddam may have made this whole mess NOT happen.
I laugh at all of the constant "Bush lied" posts on this site as when I posted many liberals saying exactly what Bush said BEFORE and AFTER 9-11 nobody even blinked, like it never happened.
Bush is a idiot on many levels as he has disgraced the people that voted for him, but if "Mild" tactics save ONE American life, go for it.
Though I respect your opinion, I disagree with it.

[i]If these so call students want to stop violation, they should talk about our troops being torture first. Until you have been in the front line you have noting to talk about[/i]

Oh, I get it. How many times have you been tortured, then? [/sarcasm]

Ryan of NCY
What's the difference between strapping explosives to one's chest vs.making them believe they're going
to drown? The ones who strapped explosives to the journalist's chest will actually kill him, not just scare him!

I can tell by the type of responses that most who write are against any type of penalization against these murduring terrorists. I am beginning to wonder if any of you are really “Americans” or “Internationalists”. These murdering terrorists they put away are not the kind of people you want to live next door (or do you?).
I'm actually more of an isolationist. But besides thinking that our country should respect ANYONE'S human rights, I also don't think we need to give our prisoner's friends in the middle east any more reasons to want to crash planes into our buildings.

I wonder if The Decider felt a little bit intimidated, knowing that every last one of those kids was a lot smarter, and could probably do one hell of a lot better job than he has as president. It is really really sad when a group of bright kids has to come to the White House and explain something like Human Rights(using simple words) to our Far Rightwing, moronic President!

Ruth,
That's not really true.

I couldn't find more recent stats, but as of March 2005, 108 detainees had died in US custody since the beginning of the war on terror. Some of these were natural causes, some were a result of the mortar attack by insurgents on Abu Gharib, but at that time, 26 had been investigated as homicides involving abuse of prisoners. Also, I do realize that some were suicides, but I know that myself, I'd prefer death over being tortured for a few years.

The man you're referring to was captured 3 months ago, yet is alive. Not one of the 15 journalists kidnapped in Gaza since 2004 has been killed. You can read more here - http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/24/bbcreporter.video/index.html.

All of my hopes are that this man gets a safe return just like the other journalists who were captured in Gaza.

I don't know how some of you can condemn the actions of the terrorists, yet find it permissible for us to do the same or similar in retaliation. I abhor the idea that my country would even do something similar to what these people do in our attempt to win.

Here's how this whole torture debate works:

Democrat to Republican: "When will you stop torturing people?"

Republican to Democrat: "When will you stop being soft on terrorists?"

Both of them make stupid assumptions, and both of them miss the point entirely. That point is this: that tough interrogation techniques are sometimes necessary to elicit information from people, and that it is pretty damn hard to draw the line between tough techniques and torture.

"Torture" is a word that has been hijacked by some who disapprove of the war on terror and wish to tarnish that effort. It's much like calling someone a racist these days. It doesn't have to be true to stick.

My hat is off to the kids for standing up and asking the right questions. I must respond to a couple of resondents, however. Take this President at his word? You've got to be kidding. To put it very simply, in God we trust, everyone else explain yourself.

Hey Dr. Jack Ryan, us kids who "havn't lived long enough to understand geopolitics," some of us actually understand it better then most adults. Speaking for myself, I am much more informed and have a better understanding of what is going on then most of my teachers, who are supposedly the educated ones. Nothing makes kids more angry then a snob, stuck up adult who assumes our opinions are worth nothing.

Leadership of the future is looking good!

"Posted By Blonde Geek, Raleigh, NC : June 26, 2007 3:30 pm"
Posted By Tom - Dedham, Mass : June 26, 2007 1:41 pm
Posted By Fabio Escobar, Amherst — NY : June 26, 2007 4:38 am
Posted By Dr. Jack Ryan, Washington, DC : June 26, 2007 7:22 am
Posted By Glen, Grand Coulee, WA : June 26, 2007 3:35 pm
Posted By Ruth, Tebbetts, Missouri : June 26, 2007 4:36 pm
Posted By Robert, Gainesville FL : June 26, 2007 4:36 pm
The thing that all of these people have in common is that they *get it*.

Justin Kane, Hudson MA: Age is unfortunately against you, but it's not your fault. Take your time in what you determine as facts. That perspective is not an *overnight* adventure.

I didn't read anything that even comes close to being interpreted as "…our opinions are worth nothing.", from: “havn’t lived long enough to understand geopolitics,”. That's quite a leap, but relying on assumptions as facts such as the example you and Anonymous : June 26, 2007 3:05 pm just provided, are part of why confusion becomes accepted as fact, for those too willing to be unbalanced by a single facet of the topic in discussion.

I am not surprised by your words/beliefs,"I am much more informed and have a better understanding of what is going on then most of my teachers,…" given the issues with another federally flawed system namely the Public School system, that wouldn't surprise me in the least. As a teacher and wrestling coach for over twenty years, I understand more than I think you can imagine but before this ranges too far off topic, I hope you'll continue to be attentive to cross-checking facts from various sources and lead by example, avoiding the name calling, belittling and assumptions based on things not established in fact.

Few things provide perspective like the historical lessons played out in time. Naivety can be an asset or a detriment, depending on the various senses in the off/on position. Choose wisely, Justin.

I wish to offer my congratulations and
deepest respect to those 50 high school
graduates, who in these trouble times we live in,have grasped the meaning of the U.S.Constitution.That the american
people should be so lucky to find
elected officials with the common sense and courage of convictiun that these
young Americans displayed to the tyrant
whom we,ve called president going on 7
years now.Shame on congress and those
who will not stand as tall as these
young people have.Kudos to their parents and teachers.

From the perspective of this U.S. citizen living in one of the "coalition of the willing" countries that cooperates in extraordinary rendition, the intelligent and articulate action of these US national high school scholars is the most encouraging things to come out of the U.S.A. in a decade. Thank you, young scholars, for giving me hope!

For a better all around story, with things like details in it, I recommend readingAmy Goodman's Article on Alternet.org.

I'd like to point out that the kids are high school graduates, not students as this CNN article claims. Ed Henry's neglecting to mention that the "50 teenagers" who signed the petition were Presidential Scholars themselves is shameful and sloppy, if not deliberate. His wording lends you to believe that these are just some young, naive, kids who couldn't possibly know anything about politics because they haven't even fallen off of that turnip truck called "High School" yet.

Whether or not I care about what these Presidential Scholars did and what Bush said becomes beside the point when all the information provided is delivered through a filter of poor wording and ommissions. In a nation with a truly free and competative press, this so-called "journalist" (a white house correspondant no less!) would be laughed out of their job.

Shame on you, Ed.