REBUILD and make a good life for the iraqi peopl

http://www.iraqafterwar.com

"Around 1,200 Iraqi civilians were killed in violence in June, a 36 percent drop from the previous month and the lowest monthly toll this year, according to Iraqi government figures obtained Sunday. "

That is around 700 less people who are dead because we are finally doing what we are supposed to do.

Please, Please do NOT pull out the troops preciptously. These people deserve to live.

True Peace.

Now another recent article says the Democrats are losing approval. Why? Because they are not doing the job we elected them to do. And Bush is forcing their hand. If you remember about a month ago, the Iraq war finding bill had to be passed. The Democrats asked for a reasonable measure that the Iraqi government was training troops and would be ready to stand on it’s own in a reasonable time. Bush vetoed the bill, saying there would be no time tables for withdrawal.

So the Democrats are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If they don’t give the troops funding, they’re slammed for not funding the troops. If they give Bush the bill he wants, they’re slammed for not fighting to help end the war.

The problem is BUSH – not the Democrats.

Its going on 6 YEARS since Sept 11, 2001. That's longer than World War I, and longer than World War II. So the plan should have been to force the Iraqis to stand up on their own a long time ago. And if they can't, we can't continue to provide their army for them and continue to have our young people dying.

We need to pull our troops out, and let them sort it out for themselves. And its not "Cut and Run" (another Bush administration spin doctor that you people bought). It's 6 years of telling them to get ready on their own, and 6 years of them ignoring us, so they deserve what they get at this point.

I'd also add maybe the US shouldn't be the only country sending troops over there. Maybe if other countries took some of the burden, and sent someof their troops, money, and supplies, then the citizens of the US wouldn't feel like everything was up to us, and we might feel a little less angry about it. But why are we the only country losing young men and women? Why? Because our arrogant, lying, and greedy president and vice president started this war so they could both profit from it – both in terms of votes from stupid "patriotic" people who couldn't see what was really going on, and money, through companies like Haliburton that Cheney made a fortune on by providing fuel and suppies to the troops on uncontested "no bid" contracts.

Its time to impeach Bush and Cheney, end this war, and bring these young men and women home. As long as the Iraqis believe we aren't going anywhere, they will never make an effort to stand up for themselves.

Not one has allowed for how they would address a genocide or regional war killing far more people than are dying today. You cannot hold a position that calls for simply withdrawing troops if you do not have a PLAN for dealing with potential chaos, and ALLOW for reinsertion of troops to avoid these horrible effects.

If you do not allow for the military to deal with methods and time for stabilisation in a withdrawl, then YOU will need to face the fact that your protests led to the unnecesary deaths of hundreds of thousands or more.

Simply "Withdraw the troops" is NOT a plan.

What's the PLAN anti-war crowd?

Nothing like providing a lot of numbers to lend an air of authenticity to your post; never mind that your figures are exaggerated and misleading.

You claim that Saddam Hussein "killed at least 2 million people", compared to "at most 60,000 or so civilians" killed since our government invaded Iraq in 2003 (and the latter have been mostly killed by Iraqi "terrorists").

Where did you get this "2 million" figure??? Are you including the Iraqis killed during their 8-year (1980-1988) war with Iran? Hello-o-o.... most of the Iraqis were killed by IRANIANS, and vice versa.

Are you including people who died from Saddam's policies (e.g. from disease, hardship, etc.), not just those executed by his forces? If so, why don't you include those Iraqis who have similarly died during the war since 2003?? You must know of the study published in the respected medical journal, Lancet, which estimated some 650,000 Iraqi civilians died between 2003 and 2006. But of course, you'd dismiss that as not one of your "responsible sources". Nothing like exaggerating figures that support your opinion, and low-balling numbers that don't support your opinion.

You claim that we're "winning this war" because an average of "only 70 troops a month" have died – compared to higher numbers in Vietnam, Korea, and World War II. Hello-o-....That partly depends on how many troops our country has deployed. The peak number in this Iraq War so far has been 157,000 at any one time. In Vietnam, it was over 550,000. Similar with Korea, and far more in W.W.II.

And your insistence that it's a simple war against al-Qaeda and similar "terrorists" is the same black-&-white distortion that the Bush Admin. has been pushing all along. Ignoring the daily sectarian violence between numerous Sunni and Shi'ite factions. Ignoring the fact the U.S. troops have been regularly attacking and defending against Shi'ite militias & "death squads" in Baghdad etc., not just against al-Qaeda and other Sunni extremists.

Of course, your whole post is degraded by starting off with "I’m positive the Communist News Network won’t post this but....." And of course, CNN did.

If the President "believes" that it is "right" to nuke California, I guess that's his job then.

Well said. I, along with many other Canadians, would agree with your comments ("Afghanistan is part of the solution, but so is Iraq, Palestine, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's important that we see the whole picture and not get tunnel vision"). However, the problem is unfortunately your leadership (Bush/ Cheney) have purposefully crafted and driven an extreme tunnel vision agenda on Iraq, and it's the main reason why an over-whelming majority in all other developed nations can now clearly see through this smoke screen (i.e. perfect example is the recent quick removal of their closest ally Tony Blair in Britain). The fact that the Bush/ Cheney (gong) show is still trying to "sell" the rest of the world on the merits of this quagmire is/ has significantly eroded U.S.'s once proud stature within the global community, and has jeopardized LCPL Marsh's (USMC) credible suggestion of the need to find a regional solution. The region is now so enflamed with the U.S. occupation of Iraq that the chance of any credible regional dialogue and problem solving beginning is slim to none (witness Ms. Rice's many failed attempts to get any traction with any leader of significance in the region).

Anyway, there is still ample support in Canada to do our part in Afghanistan and hopefully the rest of the developed nations will come back to the table to help further stabilize and re-build the entire region...then the dialogue can begin.

They're not supposed to be made by the president, either.

Even if this poll was biased (which I doubt, and would require actual proof to be convinced otherwise), it's not like the numbers would be vastly different. We won't suddenly find that 80% of Americans love the war and the president.

"Over paid, over sexed and over here.." I'm sure that sounds familiar to the Navy, certainly nothing new. Hating America has been a national pastime for old Europe since 1776. While individuals may seem very welcoming, the collective will stab you(especially the military) in the back every chance they get. I've seen it almost everyday for the last 15 yrs, not 6..

As for the LA comment, well.., sorry but you can't sweep New Orleans under the rug, I was there too. Chocolate NO’s has been polarized for quite a while wouldn’t you agree??

I have traveled abroad a great deal. During service in the U.S. Navy, I spent time in western Europe during the 80s and early 90s (Italy, France, Germany, Spain, and the UK). I also have spent substantial time (several months total) in Eastern Europe, South Africa, and Indonesia, with those trips all occuring during the Bush presidency. Your ugly comment about Louisiana is pathetic. It is an example of how low our current political discourse has become.

This country was not nearly as divided during the Clinton years as it is now. Our standing in the rest of the world was much better during the Clinton years, too. I don't say that to advance anything about Clinton, as our standing in Europe was good during the Reagan years, too.

Guess you missed the Clinton years and have never traveled abroad.

But I do see that when in Louisiana. So please, don't pretend to speak for the rest of us..

With the deepest respect for the troops, this debate is NOT about supporting the troops. It's about whether our current foreign policy is making our country and the world a better or worse place. It seems much worse to me.

I also find it a bit ironic that the same folks who used to ridicule Hilary Clinton for her mention of a "vast right wing conspiracy," now claim CNN is part of some vast liberal conspiracy. About the only thing one can say with certainty about liberals, is that they are far too disorganized to ever carry out a conspiracy.

It's also telling to look at how the rest of the developed world reacts to what's going on. The approval level for our Iraq policy is low in the U.S., but it's much lower in other countries, including the UK, Canada, and Australia. Those are places that used to be very closely aligned with the U.S. on foreign policy matters. In my experience, citizens of most other developed countries seem to be better informed on world affairs than U.S. citizens are, yet we somehow assume we have all the right answers and the rest of the world is wrong.

I look forward to the day when we have moved past this tragedy. It is divided and wounded our wonderful country. No matter what you think of Bush and his policies, one thing is beyond dispute: this country is far more polarized today than before he took office. That will be a big part of Bush's lasting legacy.

Its no secret. What wrong CNN.., still hiding in the dark?

Pattie, the US is not a democracy; it is a Republic, founded on individual liberty, not on the tyranny of the majority. What is a democracy anyway but legalized mob rule? And the mob can be wrong, just as it was wrong to approve of Bush's ill-conceived invasion in the first place. You state quite correctly that "We the People" (the majority) allowed the invasion of Iraq in 2003, but even then there were those (the minority) who tried to exercise their First Amendment right to free speech by stating that this war was a mistake. When we did, we were called traitors, told to shut up (thanks to the tyranny of the majority), and harassed by government authorities when we attempted to peacefully protest (another First Amendment right). Perhaps those who didn't "think it through" before we invaded Iraq in the first place should apologize to that minority now?? Don't you understand how this war has damaged US credibility around the world? You’re embarrassed? I'm embarrassed that many people outside the US think that Bush represents the will of the American people. If the majority had had their way in 1776, we'd be singing "God Save the Queen" now. (Thank God that the freedom-loving minority who sought to break with England for the sake of individual liberty.)

Once that fact is understood and accepted, we can together search for the way out that will result in the least additional damage to us and to the world. None of the choices will be easy or pleasant, they rarely are for the losers of a war.

The current policy of sacrificing more American and Iraqi lives, designed only to allow Bush to save face and not have Iraq collapse until after January 20, 2009, is one of the most callous, cowardly and disingeuous in the history of this country.

Someone, Democrat or Republican, is going to have to step forward and like a real leader, get us out of this mess, hopefully with the least amount of additional damage to our great country.

Wouldn't it be great if the main-stream media in this country reported the terrorist death toll on a daily basis rather then their attempted "advancements" in the war? IE Car bombs.

This year, for instance, the U.S. has killed roughly 650 terrorists a month, according to published reports and Defense Department estimates. That compares with about 37 U.S. combat deaths per month, through May.

The ratio, thus, is about 18 terrorists killed in combat for every allied soldier killed. And that doesn't include the current offensive in Diayala Province, Operation Arrowhead Ripper, which dispatched 159 enemy combatants in just the first five days.

Since the war began, we've lost about 70 troops a month. This compares with 526 a month in Vietnam, more than 900 a month in Korea and 6,639 a month during World War II.

In other words, by any meaningful metric employed, the U.S. is winning this war. But it will never be reported that way.

This is nothing new. Go back to Vietnam. Remember the "five o'clock follies," when the press routinely ridiculed Pentagon casualty reports? The Vietnam syndrome continues to this day.

Only now it's the media misreporting the numbers. Just weeks into the war in 2003, we started hearing the now-oft-repeated canard that Iraq was worse off with the U.S. than with Saddam. This is so plainly wrong that it must be called what it is: a lie.

And yet, it's repeated to this day. Here again, the numbers tell the tale. In his 24 years as Iraq's Stalinist supreme leader, Saddam Hussein killed at least 2 million people. That averages out to about 6,944 a month for the better part of three decades.

Most responsible estimates show that, at most, 60,000 or so civilians have been killed since the war started, about 1,200 a month.

Moreover, no one doubts that Saddam was responsible for all 2 million of his deaths. In the case of the U.S., most of the civilian deaths come from al-Qaida and other terrorists, not U.S. troops.

We got to thinking about this as a result of Operation Arrowhead Ripper, which began a week ago. It involves some 10,000 U.S. troops trying to rid Diyala Province of al-Qaida terrorists. It's one of the biggest, if not the biggest, operations since the war began.

And yet, when we looked for news of how this huge effort in the war on terror was going, the focus was all on American fatalities.

Since Vietnam, the media have approached each military conflict with the same template: "U.S. Wrong, Foe Right." And they've reported accordingly. That's why wanton murderers of women and children are generously called "fighters" by our own media, while errors by our own troops are tarred as war crimes.

So, in a sense, we are losing a war — the war for Americans' hearts and minds, fought daily on America's TV screens and front pages. But in the real war, our troops are fighting bravely and well — and it's about time someone started keeping score.

An American in Canada (thank Christ!)

But once we didn't find any WMD, and once the mission morphed into this nation-building/democracy-building venture, it became a silly waste of U.S. resources. Even worse, there is nothing about nation-building by force in the original war resolution passed by Congress in October 2002. It only talked about eliminating the strategic threat from Saddam. In my judgment, Bush has exceeded his congressional authorization–a potentially impeachable offense.

In December 2003, David Kay had reported to Congress that no significant WMD could be found inside Iraq. That should have been our cue to start withdrawing from Iraq and deal with other threats and issues elsewhere.

In case Kathryn in SC and the gang didn't notice, this poll is consistant with just about every other poll taken over the past year.

Ted said it best...we went into this war on a pack of lies.

NEVER should the US launch pre-emptive wars on a nation that never attacked us. Ron Paul was the only Republican with the guts to tell us the truth.

Oh, I See! Supporting troops means saying this war was legit, necessary, and constitutional even while knowing it wasn't and at same time knowing our troops are there under misguided, misconceived pretenses, under constant danger and losing their lives daily so as they can feel better about the mess they're in! That is not support, that is sending gasoline to keep fires that should have been put out long ago burning longer while knowing the result will increase death tolls and hardships on all!!

And if anyone thinks for one minute that our brave military heroes who are doing everything in their power to win this war against all odds are going to admit publicly to the world that this war was and still is a losing battle you don't know the meaning of pride and self sacrifice!

It is WE our military family who need to unite and DEMAND that this comedy of errors called a War End Now and our brave, honourable, worthy military return home to their loving, self sacrificing families instead of preserving a fairy tale with no story line, and no happy ending for real or make believe in sight!

What a lot of people don't understand is that we did win the war in 2003. What we're attempting to do now is complete the occupation. We're building a huge embassy in Iraq right now and have no intention of leaving that poor country. probably forever.

Anyone who supports this war is a brainwashed fool. Bush could nuke half the world and they'd still support him.

You are entitled to your opinions. The facts are the facts.