CNN

Jon, Sacramento .. here's what YOU need to follow: this isn't an article (or thread) on impeachment – which would be why the word WASN'T EVEN MENTIONED IN THE CNN ARTICLE. And it's not that I don't agree with you about Clinton either, cuz I do – regarding his PARDONS. They were B.S.

But the article is about "Libby", "commuting", hell, even "pardons" and "hypocrisy" – but NOT impeachment. You're the only one tripping on this unrelated subtopic.

Clinton's impeachment has nothing to do with whether Dubya's commuting of Libby's sentence was right. NOTHING! They are totally mutually exclusive topics. That's like me defending Clinton's impeachment by saying "Well .. well .. ummm ... Nixon resigned!" Whether Nixon had to resign has got nothing to do with it.

Now, like I told you under another thread .. STOP attacking other candidates to try to defend yours.

Rick in Chicago,

You might want to lay off the excessive drinking as it appears to be effecting your thinking.

Have you become so lost to sobriety that you failed to remember President Clinton was impeached? Do you remember he was stripped of his law license? Considering these are historcial FACTS – whenever former President Clinton chooses to grab a microphone and make statements about the current administration and get into a war of words he (as well as the general public) should rememeber his legacy.

If Nixon were commenting on "Executive Privilege" would you also conveniently forget he was forced from office?

Bill Clinton's condemnation of President Bush's decision to commute Mr Libby's sentence is self-serving, hypocritical, and transparent grand-standing. The same character flaws which lead to his impeachment and stripping of his law license.

Is that too much for you to follow Rick?

Jon .... let me get this straight ... the word you got from the point of the ENTIRE article was "impeached"? Not "pardon", "commuting", "hypocrisy" .. but "impeached"? You might want to stick to drawings since your reading comprehension is entirely subpar. By the way, do a search of the word "impeached" in the text of the CNN article above and tell me how many times the word is even mentioned.

Do you know how to draw a picture of the number ZERO?

Maybe your post should have read: "I guess if I was ANY OF THE CURRENT REPUBLICAN candidates for president who MADE A HABIT OUT OF KISSING DUBYA'S BEHIND FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS and I suddenly needed to FLIP FLOP ON MY SUPPORT OF HIM IN ORDER TO GET ELECTED, I might attack the current republican administration too!"

Clinton is only expressing what his/her adoring fans have been saying. "It doesn't matter what they have done, we want them back." Of course he thinks we've all forgotten about the Clinton legacy of lies and corruption.

Tricia M,

I will not stoop to the level of anger you project in your post. As I mentioned earlier, I served in our nation's military for 20 years, I applaud you for your opinion. Very simply I happen to disagree with you. I would like to correct one thing you incorrectly state that I said. I did not write that the names of our soldiers are being sullied. If you will read my post again, you will see that it is my opinion that the far left are USING our soldiers to sully the president's name. I also recall being a young man and listening to the left criticize president Reagan for many of his policies, accusing him of putting the nation in danger of war with the Soviet Union. Note if you will, the Soviet Union is no more. Leadership Tricia. It's not always easy, and the popular decision is not necessarily the right one. I agree wholeheartedly with you about the debt of gratitude we owe the members of our great military. I do believe however, that we owe it to those who have lost their lives to finish the fight, not to cut and run. They are heros all. Once again, I value your opinion as I do all Americans. Lets remember that we are in this together, the enemy is without, not within.

To Rick in Chicago.... I imagine it was rather DIFFICULT for you to follow a thread of logic and connectivity. The article was about Tony Snow firing back at impeached former president. My comments were summarizing the reasons an impeached president stripped of his law license would even venture into the fray....

Next time, for your benefit, I'll use little words and make sure to draw big pictures to help you understand.

Bill Lepto:

If you think the world needs more like Bush to run your Nation then maybe you should enlist to clean up the carnage he and his Clones leave behind. I highly doubt any citizens, at least those outside the US of A will agree with you.

And how are those against Bush sullying the names of Soldiers? It's the Bush War, the Needless, Reckless, Void of any Strategy, Reason or Credability War that is dishonouring the Military Members serving under his command! The contempt held by many for Bush has absolutely nothing to do with the Brave and Heroic Military serving him.

And may I remind you, your loyalty to Bush is felt by few but his arrogance and recklessness as a leader is felt world wide. And may I also remind you, that the US is not the only Nation supporting this war nor is it the only Nation who disagrees with the way their military have been scammed and deceived. They were thrown into this war on the Pretense of Protecting Our Freedom and Protecting our Lands from Terrorists whilst the Bush Government doesn't lift a finger to protect or show allegiance to them who are in the trenches daily without even the equipment they need to protect themselves.

It is easy for Power Hungry Leaders to start a war and then cowardly turn their backs on those who are actually doing the fighting and putting their lives on the line daily, in this case for a mere supposition of WMD's that have yet to be found. There now in Iran I hear! Good luck with that one!

Ask the Iraquis what they think of Bush after their Nation has been blown to bits and thousands of their people have died on a mere Supposition!

Fill your Boots with your Bush Adoration and Gratitude. Meantime I'll fill mine with Contempt for a Leader that ignited a war haphazardly on a whim that resulted in the loss of thousands of civilan and heroic military lives. I'm sure the families of those lost due to a mere supposition will thank you for your Adoration and Loyalty to the Great One!

My Adoration and Gratitude is for the military members who gave and are still giving their all, for we at home. They in my mind are the Leaders and the Great Ones. God Bless Each One ... and Bring Them Safely Home.
And I'll Pray as well that God Will Bless America in 2008 with a true Peace Loving, Honest, Wise, Compassionate, and God Fearing Great One which will eliminate any possible chance of another Bush.

Erika Morgan,

I can't say I'm surprised by your comments. I hear things like that time and time again attributed to our country and our president. In my humble opinion, that attitude is misguided, but who am I to disagree? I only served this great country of ours for 20 years in the military, guaranteeing your right to say anything you wish to say without fear of retribution. This is a great country. We are not, nor are our leaders bullies, or destroyers of innocent life. Torture? I think not. And as far as sexual humiliation is concerned, do you recall that we tried and convicted individuals for the atrocities committed at Abu Graab prison? You need to realize that we are a nation of individuals. Every wrong that happens is not the fault of George Bush, neither was all of the wrong during Bill Clinton's administration his fault. And for what it's worth, while president Clinton was undergoing his impeachment proceedings, I never once criticized him personally, unlike the left who because of their hatred of president Bush, would go to any lengths to sully his name, including using our heroic soldiers to do so.

Jon in Sacramento ... thanks for your completely IRRELEVANT impeachment comment. Can I get those 10 seconds of my life back please?

In your next post, make sure you tell us what Clinton's impeachment has to do with the topic of this thread? I'll even tell you what the topic is, since apparently you forgot last time: Tony Snow's comment on the commuting of Libby's sentence.

Until then, here's a more relevant number for ya: Number of time's a commuting of a prison sentence was done to save the current administration's backside before any time was even served?

Bush 1, Clinton 0

Dr. Rodolfo F. Acuña and all people who claimed Clinton never impeached people who may be in conflict of interest must be kidding. Clinton DID pardon Susan McDougal who is a key figure in Whitewater scandal. Anyone read any news?

Half of people who write here do not even know what this investigation is about and who are the players. The investigation is about a CIA agent, Valerie Plame, identity leak to Robert Novak. Joe Wilson, husband of Plame, clams that this is done to silent anti-Iraq War critics. As it turns out, Richard Armitage is the source who unintentially passed the information to Robert Novak. Armitage and Novak both admitted to this event. Joe Wilson's claim is proved wrong because Armitage himself was and is a Iraq war critic from the beginning. So it makes no sense that Richard Armitage the most trusted friend to Colin Powell and a critics of war would reveal Plame's identity to intimate war critics. Armitage dislikes Cheney so much that he left office when Powell left. Does he sounds like the person who Cheney asked to do dirty work?

At last count of impeached Presidents:

Clinton 1, Bush 0

I guess if I were the former impeached President stripped of my law license trying to get my wife into the oral er oval office I might attack the current republican administration too!

I found Snow comments interesting. It seem that more money you have one does not have do the time. that was it seem just die for your country brake the law forget.

I agree with Bill Lepto. We need more people like Bush, who in the face of overwhelming adveristy and opposition from a large majority of the public, has the strength and courage to LEAD us and our country...right down the toilet.

Mr. Snow,

Return to FOX immediately their "BS" meter allows your type of statements!

Paulet,

Get your facts right, will you? Bush never said he communted Libby (not pardon) because of Clinton's action. I challenge you to find it. He said he did it because he believe the sentence is too harsh. Now, many conservative radio hosts said liberal outage is inconsistent because Clinton pardon many shady people, but you cannot hold Bush accountable for radio hosts languages.

Bill Lepto.SC I take it then you personally enjoy being a world class bully, a destroyer of innocent life, unprovoked attacks against innocent bystanders. You think torture for the sake of torture and sexual humiliation, is something to aspire toward, you like lying to get your way and to coverup your wrong doing and are so deluded you think this could actually work in the end. Oh! and no matter what if you have power, you, are supposed to use it to be above the Law and to take advantage of the worthless serfs of the world whose only purpose is to aggrandize yourself.

I actually think the pardon and commutation are the correct thing to do for Mr. Bush and Mr. Chaney in this case: BUT THE COMING CLEAN NEEDS TO GO TO THE NEXT STEP. ALONG WITH THE PARDON I EXPECT THE TAKING OF THE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LIES AND THE COVERUP. THIS MEANS THERE IS A STATEMENT THAT THEY ARE PARDONING LIBBY AS HE WAS DOING THEIR BIDDING, THEY ARE THE REAL CULPRITS, THEY ARE AT THIS TIME SURRENDERING THEMSELVES TO THE SERGEANT AT ARMS TO TAKE LIBBY'S SENTENCE UPON THEMSELVES AND HAVE RESIGNED THEIR POSTS.

Eric Roberts, nice post I could not agree with you more!
Erika Morgan Black Diamond Wa.

PS. Congress I know you guys are scared spit-less of the grub that the GOP Cabal can scrub up on you, but you can find true freedom and relief by coming clean, it is real cathartic and allows you do do something useful with your life, don't wait too long.

Luis,

That is a speculation based on Wilson's book, right? First, it is a speculation about a secret meeting which may not had happened. No evidence. Do you know it is a circlar arguement? Wilson claimed Cheney has a secret meeting with senior staffers to outst his wife Plame. Can he proved it? No, because it is a secret meeting, and the materials are not make public. It is not make public because it is secret. That is the beauty. You cannot prove or disapprove a secret meeting, much like alien theory. Can you prove or disprove aliens. No to either. Wilson cannot prove a SINGLE thing. He is making speculation based on a meeting which may not have existed and if it did, then he definitely he was not in it.

What we do know 100% is that the public leak of Plame is on a Robert Novak column, and the person who accidently leak this information is Richard Armtiage.

To say Libby's commuted without going through legal channels is ridiculous. There is NO required procedure for pardon and commute. Yes, most people get pardon after filing, but that is because most people do not know presidents. Get it? Bush knows Libby. Bill Clinton pardoned his brother Roger Clinton. Do you actually think Roger Clinton filed legal papers for a pardon. Or did Richard Nixon filed legal papers for a pardon too? My god.... Please read about the law or american history before calling someone "illegal"

To Eric Roberts, Naperville, IL you should get your facts correct. It was Richard Armitage who revealed Valerie Plame's identity not Libby. I don't agree with what the President did, but at least get your facts right.

Let's be clear: Bush pardoned a man whose crime was lying to defend the president. This is tantamount to the president pardoning himself. For future reference, the methodology of presidential lawbreaking goes like this: a) Commit crime. b) Compel underling to lie under oath defending you. c) If need be, pardon the underling. This is very different from other "pardons". This is a systematic means by which the President can operate outside of the law.

Clinton was wrong but he did not onstruct justice to save his own skin. Like his father did in the Iran/Contra scandal, the purpose was to protect and reward those who broke the law for his benefit and to persuade Libby not to implicate him or Cheney. A better analogy would be Susan McDougal who Clinton could have helped but did not. Clinton's motives would have been suspect. Snow is disengenuous.

The interesting thing about this discussion is that no matter who is President, their actions, in this case pardons and commutations, are subject to public comment. The immense amount of disapproval of President Bush's action is due to the closeness of Libby to Bush and the Democrats irritation of having a victory slip out of their hands.

Really, what did Bush have to lose by doing this during his term as President. Very few people in America still support him and his administration. Those that do support him don't disapprove of the communtation.

Overall, a politically sound move, but maybe not a very ethical one.

WOW!
I just noticed how OLD Bubba looks.

The Right still doesn't get it. They don't realize how dangerous to the health of Our Nation,the one they claim to love so dearly, to have the Party in Power use their office to take down political enemies. Even when the issue is about stifling opposition to the rationlale for war against a sovereign nation that hadn't attacked us. The Freedom to have open & honest politeical questions raised is the bedrock of this country,ywt the Right views any opositon as Treason. The political thought process in this country is in bad shape & more bad things are going to happen because of this illness.

Tony Snow and this administration just bring me back to the ridiculousness of highschool - Bush said he pardoned Libby because Clinton pardoned whoever - not original and always that nah!nah!nah! he did it first and she said it after -- No wonder people of today don't have respect for others, when you have leaders who act like they are still back in grammar school.
The we see Barack speaking and saying to people that "we must see ourselves in others" it's not original but it definitely is something we all should work towards Respect for Others.
This negative back-stabbing is totally absurd and dysfunctional - as is the administration.

Someone should tell MR. Snow that chutzpah is when the vice president orders a CIA agent to be outed in political retaliation, his assitant lies and try to cover it putting national security at risk...then after is found guilty his sentence is commuted by the president without even let it go thru the legal channels...
now, that is chutzpah!!!!

Eric Roberts,

Stop being so blinded by your own hatred. Think calmly will you? Libby did not committed treason, nor was he charged with treason. The investigation is about leakage of a CIA agent: Plame. Her identity was revealed in a Bob Novak's column. Yet, Libby did not leak the identity. How can you put him in jail. Richard Armtiage is the one who leaked the information to Robert Novak. Richard admitted it. Robert admitted it. Fitzgerald knows it. Yet, Undersectary Armitage is not charged with anything - possibly because he has been an antiwar critics. Since he was a antiwar critics, then the whole arguement of "leaking Plame identity for political revenge" does not make sense..... Basically, Fitzgerald hit a wall in his investigation so he charge someone with something, which is stupid.

Tom,

When did Clinton pardon a terrorist? If he did, he didn't know. For isntance, you hold Osama Bin Laden's elementary school teacher responsible, can you?

About Libby's case, I do think the whole trial is idiotic. Everyone know Richard Armitage leaks the information to Bob Novak and he himself admitted to it and apologized. Though, everyone knew he did so unintentionally. Yet, the prosecutor Fitzgerald did not prosecute Armitage, instead he went after Libby and possibly Cheney. In fact, the strangest is this: Richard Armitage felt so guilty about his mistake that he wanted to go public about it, but Fitzgerald told him not to because the investigation was on-going. Yet, this does not make sense to me. If the investigation is about the who leak Plame's identity, and you (Fitzgerald) already know the source to be Armitage, then isn't the investigation over? What so "on-going" about it. At the end, Libby was charged but not Armitage. What the hell?

The only reason I can come up with is that Richard has been a mild anti-Iraq war critics, but should that plays any role? So it is ok to leak CIA identity if you are war critics and it is not ok to leak if you are a war supporter?

The problem here is conflictof interest. It's like a fox commuting the sentance of another fox for raiding the henhouse. At least none of Clinton's pardons involved someone commiting acts of treason. Libby and everyone else involved should be strung up for revealing Plame's identity. Notice how none of the republican shills are bothered by that while they puff up like they are really patriotic. If they were truely partiotic, they would be calling for Bush and Cheney's impeachment as well as federal charges agaisnt Rumesfeld and Rice. As a veteran, I am completely applled and sickened by the actions of the Bush administration. The Bush administration does not deserve to be in the White House...they all deserve to be in jail. He is not standing up to public pressure and leading, he is ignoring his bosses...the citizens of the United States...and doing whatever the heck he wants, regards of how much the country is agaisnt him. He is doing things in our name that we don;t want him to do. He is not acting like an elected leader, but more like a dictator who can care less what the people of his country want. That is not how a democracy works. It's too bad the democrats in congress don't have the cajones to stand up and start impeachment proceedings. That is the only cure for the cancererous boil in the White House. The Bush administration is the domestic enemy spoken of in the oaths our servicemen and women have taken. His casual disregard for constitutional processes is disgusting. His abuse of power must be stopped.

Eric
a very pisssed off Veteran

The Clinton's learned from George Wallace that if you promise enough ,say what people want to hear, it doesn't matter if you do it or not. Were is the national heath care program we elected them to provide. They want power & they have sold out to get it and the money.If you go to the trouble of looking at the pardons Clinton gave you will be leaning toward Obama or some other person that hasn't proved they can be bought yet. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

You get 'em, Tony. Another inconvenient truth for the Libs.

Since you can't vote Pres. Bush out of office for this, just remember in 2008 that the rest of the GOP backed him on it.

Why is it that when a Republican pardons someone, people always say" Republicans think they're above the law", but when a Democrat pardons someone people say, "The person who was pardoned must not have done anything wrong". Am I the only one who sees the problem with that? While I don't condone what Bush did, people need to at least try to look unbiased.

I read all the comments. Bill is getting the better end of the stick here.

Although I COMPLETELY agree the White House needs to ignore the hypocritical Clintons and just stick to their own issues, address their own ethics – COME ON!

The Clintons pointed their finger quite loud and showy, I can understand Snow's frustration over the enormous, narcissistic hypocrisy. And the frustration of what seems like a lack of media coverage for anything Bill does.

I believe the Clintons will die out anyway, but the most important point is whoever is in the Presidents chair needs to stay completely accountable.

So when Clinton pardoned terrorists that were caught ON TAPE planning and plotting the making of bombs to kill Americans (yes even the Clintonistas), you are all ok with that?

Mark Rich was wheeling and dealing with the Iranians while they were HOLDING HOSTAGES, are you ok with that as well?

Lastly, Libby, Bush or Rove were not the leaker, why are we not going after well known Bush hater Richard Armitage for being the one?

It's ok to pardon people as long as it's 190 or so of them on HIS LAST DAY?

It always amazes me when I read the criticism of the Bush administration. Ladies and gentlemen, this president has the guts to stand in the face of public opinion and LEAD. That is exactly what he was elected to do. I for one find this refreshing in this day of governing through polls. I support his decision to pardon Mr Libby, as do I support many of his other decisions. Politics be damned, we need more like George Bush in government.

President Clinton is absolutle correct!!!
It's about time someone has the guts to publicly say it.
If the law gets in the way of Presendent Bush's personal agenda, he just changes it.

Tony Snow should be thankful that there are still people like the Clintons and hope for fewer like this 'thing' we are stuck with who says he is president but likes to act like a dictator. The Dixie Chicks were right. We should all be ashamed of Bush/Cheney.

Considering he's presently living on borrowed time, maybe it would be a good time for Mr. Snow to stop the political double-talk & show us that he indeed still has an ounce of credibility left. Every time their backs are against the wall, the White House blames Clinton. Next, they'll be blaming him for Christ's cruxifiction!!

Typical Bush administration wise cracks and side steps. We knew this was coming but Bush got his hand forced. This administration will go down in history as the worst ever.

How do they say "chutzpah" at Fox, Tony? How do you sleep? If there's a Hell for flacks, you're surely headed there.

SIMPLE, MR. LIBBY MUST KNOW A LOT , THEY ARE AFRAID HE WILL START TALKING AND THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE GETTING IN TROUBLE.NOTHING MR. BUSH DOES SURPRISES ME ANYMORE THE MAN IS CORRUPT TO THE BONE.

When are the American people going to get their head out of the sand and realize what this administration is doing? They refuse to release information that has been subpoenaed in the case of the fired attorneys. Bush seems to know better than the jurors and the judge that heard the whole Libby case. Bush said the same thing about Iraq. He said the same thing about the 9/11 commissions report. He knows better than everyone else. Where does this all end?

I don't have a problem with commuted sentences, but I do have a problem with a commuted sentence that was given to a member of the very administration who committed the crime to begin with.

Maybe Libby was the fall guy for someone higher up who really committed this crime (Cheaney or Rove). It's unfortunate, but someone in that administration has to pay for this and many other crimes that they've committed.

Unbelievable and sickening!!!

Out of all the pardons President Clinton signed, were any of them for someone who was found guilty of a crime that required jail time? And not one day of that time being served?

The Bush government thrives on the "gray areas in the law". Unfortunately, they seem to think all those dark little marks on the paper are gray.

Who cares what Tony Snow thinks, or says. He is a nobody.

Of course Tony Snow is going to fire back. The crooked crooks have to continue to defend each other.

Politics as usual on both sides.

Data points: Recent Presidents of BOTH parties...Nixon, LBJ, Ike and Truman...each issued far, FAR more last minute pardons than Clinton did, but not a word about that.

Also, Conservatives blasted Clinton for pardoning "shady" Mark Rich, but Rich was represented by Scooter Libby
in the late 1990s! Small world, eh?

All I ever hear is "selective damnation".

Snow does nothing but blow...and shows us real Americans what this White House is all about by hiring him in the first place.

The real issue here is "why" did President Bush pardon Libby. Libby was sentenced by a Bush appointee and in accordance with federal sentencing guidelines. The plausible explanation is that President Bush purchased Libby's continued silenece. There seems to be no doubt that President Bush will grant him a full pardon on the way out the door.

Normally, presidents pardon or commute at the end of their terms, Tony, in order not to make their attempts to hide their activities too visible.

IF Mr. Snow wants to fire back at Bill Clinton so be it, but when you pick on an entire state like Arkansas, then Mr. Snow needs another job. Another fine example of idiotic chaos ruling the white house.