You people are being duped. The Clintons have been buddies with the Bush family for a long time. Karl Rove was a close personal friend of Bush Sr. and was chosen by him to run GWBs campaign. Rove left to privately consult Hillary's campaign.

This whole Democrat/Republican hatefest is just a show. The same puppet masters are pulling the strings for both top-tier candidates. Both sides will win their nominations to the anger of the left/right bases. And America loses.

You will get nothing Hillary has promised, but you will get more war, more taxes, less freedom, and less privacy. In other words, it will be business as usual.

The democrats need to mount an insurrection within their party to prevent this. We republicans are working on our side. If we do not, no matter which party wins, we the people will lose. Stop being partisan and make neighbors with each other. We are all Americans and our country is at risk of being destroyed. It is time to come together people.

I think we need to separate two elements here: One is ideology - one’s positions on the important political issues of the times. In this department Karl Rove is further to the right, and Senator Clinton to the left, but both are fairly moderate compared to say Tom Tancredo and Dennis Kucinich. The other element is politicking - the business of running a candidate for office. In this department Karl Rove is an acknowledged master, along with James Carvelle, the late Lee Atwater and many others. Now, I don’t like Karl Rove’s ideology any more than my fellow Democrats on this blog, but this article is about the political horse race. (I have heartfelt beliefs, but I must admit I really love the game for the game’s sake). So let’s look at the flaws of our candidates:

Senator Clinton has very high negatives in the current polls. A certain amount of that isn’t going to change (30-35% of the same hardcore Republicans who watch FOX and still support President Bush and the war in Iraq). An equal percentage (give or take) love Hillary. And the balance is another third of the country who still have a sense of Clinton that is out of touch with reality, and that can be changed. I don’t care if you call it a vast conspiracy or not, but right-wing talk radio (and our own James of Phoenix, AZ!) have kept up a near-constant barrage of lies about Clinton’s persona. Once the truth comes out (and you can bet it will given the media abilities in the Clinton camp), that Hillary Clinton is a woman of compassion (a lifetime of service to those in need), humor (she really is funny), accomplishment (her Senate record is amazing, so keep tossing me that softball, xtina), faith (her deep religious conviction is acknowledged by even her harshest biographers) and values (she fought to keep her family together and raised a wonderful daughter) the views of moderate independent voters can and will be swayed. Of course there’s still the big flaw - the hormonal one. Senator Clinton is the first person with an XX chromosome who has a serious chance at the oval office, and if you think that’s not going to matter I refer you to the outrageously sexist comments under every Clinton post on this blog. I hope we as a nation can get past this nonsense, but the gambling man in me isn’t so sure.

But things aren’t as bleak as Bush’s brain would have us think. Rove says Senator Clinton is “fatally flawed” as a candidate. I say that may be so, but who isn’t? Senator Clinton won’t be running against the second coming of Ronald Reagan (despite what a few Fred-heads claim). The only Republican candidates with any chance at the nomination are all “fatally flawed” themselves. I’ve got to be careful here because I promised to be respectful in an earlier post, but let’s look at some of the problems with the Republican front-runners:

Mayor Giuliani has to defend a decidedly left-wing record on social issues to a right-wing base. You can bet those photos in drag and those pro-choice videos will get a lot more air time. I’m going to stay away from it here but I doubt if his personal issues will go away. He’s also got the problem of a minimal resume (I don’t think a mayor has ever won the Presidency) and his own propensity for gaffes (29 hours at the WTC in three months doesn’t make him one of the rescue workers). Once the American public gets to know the real Giuliani his numbers will drop like a rock.

Governor Romney has to defend his record as a corporate raider (bankrupting American companies, firing workers and shipping jobs overseas might work for Gordon Gekko, but it looks a little weak on a 30 second tv spot), his flip-flops on pretty much everything (abortion, immigration, stem cells, gay rights). his hiring of illegal immigrants for state and personal yard work, his quirks (Battlefield Earth? Dog on the roof?), and his religion (not fair in my opinion but we’re talking horse race here and it will be a factor).

Senator Thompson has to defend an indefensible lobbying record (asbestos, abortion, tobacco and Aristide is about as lethal a combination as I can imagine). Add his Washington insider status to the fact that he never actually did anything in the Senate and he doesn’t have much to run on beyond name-recognition from Law & Order re-runs.

And poor John McCain, the only Republican contender actually qualified to be President in the middle of a war, is despised by his own party for being courageously correct about immigration. The vehemence is unbelievable for this American hero, a tribute to the xenophobic powers of Buchanan and Tancredo and Limbaugh and Coulter and CNN’s own Lou Dobbs. I’m sorry to say it, but I think McCain is out of this contest. The party of Reagan hates McCain so much they’re even making age an issue!

From the perspective of pure politicking, everybody running has serious problems. But I think the Democrats will take it. Because here’s the final fatal flaw, the one that literally kills, the stake in the heart of every Republican contender: they ALL support the Bush administrations utterly reckless and failed excursion into Iraq. The tragic Iraq war will be the defining issue of the 2008 campaign. Every one of the Republicans is on one side of the issue, and the vast majority of American voters are on the other. Game, Set and Match: Hillary (or Barack, or Bill, or John, or Joe, or Chris, or whichever Democrat gets the nomination).

So Rove is right: Senator Clinton has flaws. But who doesn’t? It’s going to be a battle of the damaged. May the least flawed win.

Since it appears as though the Dem. machine and the media…CNN in particular (apparent by the amount of the biased coverage) have already decided that Hillary will get the nomination, one can only hope that Edwards will choose to run as an independent. He may not be as clever as Hillary delivering sound bites, but his candor and commitment to relevent social issues is a breath of fresh air.

To independent, independent USA -

I know it's probably a waste of time to respond to someone like you, but I can't let your cheap, snide comments go without answering back. I love this country too much to see a moron like you trash people who are merely exercising their 1st amenment right to free speech. It is our duty as citizens of a democracy to speak out and disagree with our government. I guess you never took a civics or American History class. Oh, I forgot, you don't have an education. That's why people like you voted Bush into office twice.

You really shouldn't use big words you don't understand, i.e. "liberal commies". Don't you know that Senator Joseph McCarthy used commie pinko and other phrases in the 1950's when he was looking for imaginary communists in our government? What you are advocating is the antithesis of democracy, it's fascism and dictatorship. In those countries where you are not permitted to open your big mouths, that's because they are not free societies. The last time I checked, America was a free democracy. But then, you are one of those who support Bush and his warrantless surveillance of innocent Americans in direct violation of the Constitution. You are as ignorant of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as our president. You really should read it sometime. It is a brilliant document created by men who loved freedom and wanted to create the first real democracy. But they could never have anticipated that idiots like you would want to throw it all away.

Why don't you do all of us a favor and go crawl back in that cave from whence you came? You haven't a clue about what it means to be a real American.

Classic porky, always failing to addressing the issue while smearing others. He claims Clinton has done little for healthcare. DAH.. She tried to get national healthcare, but I guess to porky that doesn't count. This is classic republicanfearmonging koulteresque rhetoric. Of course she will lose the election…clearly dirty tricks and smears help the cause.

MATT FROM AUSTIN:

I have studied Constitutional law, and I not only learned how to spell Habeas Corpus, but also the meaning of the term, and its role in our system.

Some folks pretend to know what is in the Constitution, but those of us who have studied the document recognize those who are merely bluffing their way through.

PRESIDENT BUSH IS NOT DOING ANYTHING THAT IS AT ODDS WITH HIS SWORN OATH TO PRESERVE, PROTECT, AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. If he were, there would be immediate consequences. The Constitution is not a list of suggestions. It is not a cafeteria menu that can be picked and chosen. It is not applied willy-nilly.

The fact that you so blithely charge him of absolutely impossible actions, proves only that you are unschooled in the study of Constitutional law.

QUOTE:
Posted By Dr. Van, Beaverton, OR. : August 16, 2007 3:42 pm

I'm sorry you expect people to believe these people to believe this as true?

You've got to be joking, right?
Posted By Marsha, Portland, OR : August 16, 2007 4:18 pm
UNQUOTE:
——
Sorry Marsha, but it is true, as stated. I didn't mention half of it.

If you wish to verify, take the time to go back over the Oregonian Newspaper files there in Portland. The staff will be happy to tell you how to go about this.

Start around the time of their last days in office and continue reading for the next 6 months of headlines. I know that it is there because I read those papers at that same time they came out.

I know that it appears to be a big chore but it is not as formidable as it sounds, and will give you an overview of the crap these two have gone through over the years. They are why I switched to Republican.

I wish you well, and hope you find the truth about this issue.

I agree it's time for an end to divisive, partisan politics- Hillary/Bill Clinton in the WH will result in a re-hash of the past and more petty, unproductive politics. While Federal gridlock has merits, there are many solutions that most Americans can agree upon, regardless of party affiliation.

please that it were true - I would LOVE to be invisible to the federal government. Don't pander to me, don't offer me programs and services - take my minimal taxes and kill terrorists.

"I just can't beleive people are still willing to defend bush and his administration. All he has done is reinitiate Nazi terror control over the american people with anti-civil liberty legislation and fear mongering. The world will be a better place with someone who cannot be bought in the white house. I think Hillary is that person. If not, we're all screwed.

Posted By Nic, Toronto, Canada : August 15, 2007 4:16 pm "

What I cannot stand is some dumb*ss Canuck telling us what's best for our country and refering my President's actions to Nazis.

We sure as heck don't need some weakkneed candidate willing to allow other whimpy countries like Canada telling us how to defend ourselves.

Canadians enjoy the protection and economic benefits of the USA, then complain. Typical, lame Canucks.

Nik from Toronto believes that Hillary cannot be bought!

Of course, Nik from Toronto uses Canadian spelling.
Worse, Nik from Toronto does not understand how the American political process works (he believes that the President of the United States of America is able to legislate), which is probably why his comments are not logical.

John,

If you look closely at that ugly mug, you will notice that her hair line is receeding like Karl's, her teeth structure is freakish to say the least, he chin is protruded and clown like, and her cheeks are puffy, like a squirrel's cheeks full of nut…

Why did she stick with crooked-dick bill, after her public humiliation? What kind of person would do that? Weak and silent!!LOL!!!

Hillary's negative numbers are so high that they locked up her past in the Clinton Library. In her ad she says the troops are invisible to George Bush. That is a stupid mistake campaign wise because she herself voted against funding the troops, voted against wiretaps to protect them and now says they have failed and we must get out of Iraq. She'll have her attorneys challenging all the military absentee votes just like Gore did because the military can't stomach her.

Why would anyone want to vote for a candidate who is a tax dodger. If you or I failed to report $100,000 on our income tax return and our yearly income was less than amount, we might be behind bars. But as the First Lady, the IRS gave her a slap on the wrist and made her pay taxes on that money that she supposedly worked for as an Attorny on Whitewater. Of course, Bill did not know anything about that. Right. Wrong, because we all know that Bill is a convicted liar and she is also.

I don't care for Bush or the current crop of Repubs. running but I do believe they are more honest than the Clintons. Also, she took furniture and painting out of the W.H. that had to be returned. I have big problems with Thieves and liars

I'm so glad Hilary told us she was a "girl", I wouldn't have guessed. Do we really want to have that shrill voice for 4 years?
Bashing Rove doesn't erase the truth about the Clinton's. Yuck.

Ms. Clinton has done nothing for healthcare in the U. S. maybe in a foreign land where she is not running for president. I am still confused as to why she tolerates Mr. Clinton is it because of her only intention to get into the White House, and hide all the state of Arkensas ,and the Rose law firm records for several more years till the Clinton library is built.

Bless you Karl. I love it when you get the left in such a fit! Thanks for the memories!

Hilarious to see people say Karl Rove is underhanded in his statements. Open up your eyes people. He is talking about polling. Hillary has a lot of negative polling out there, and he is only saying she has history against her.

As for the comment by Pat P. A C average candidate trumps a C minus candidate any day. Bush had better grades than Kerry.

I believe that a news source such as cnn should refrain from calling Karl Rove "Bush's brain" use quotation marks and not name a source. Sophmoric attempt at best for a newschannel that has clearly chosen sides.

Say what you will about Karl Rove, but the man knows his politics…as usual, Hillary thinks she can buy her way into the presidency, just stay out of enough hot water, and put on the same style of schmooze that Bill did…exept Hillary is not good enough in front of a camera like Bill was, no matter how much they train her.

Hillary will not be the next US President. Just is not going to happen. Hype it all you want liberals, but it will not happen.

There is no one on the political landscape right now worth voting for. Sad. Just a bunch of yappers with money trying to buy the ultimate power position. Qualified or not, they run anyway hoping for enough of the right sound bites to stick.

Why don't the wealthy politicians who complain about the government not providing free benefits to poor Americans put their money where their mouths are and dole out their own cash to the poor? Hillary is just another example of soap-box hypocrisy.

I'm fascinated that Hillary can change accents, depending on her audience. She doesn't think we, average Americans, notice that. Her condescension will ultimately be her downfall in the presidential race.

Reminds me of an old vaudeville joke (yes, I'm that old). "The lady wants a green suit, turn on the green light."

Karl Rove has spoken the truth. Bill and Hillary are the "Tonton Macoutes" of the USA. These people are flawed and they do not deserve another chance at the presidency. Hillary refuses to release her files until after the elections. That is just a small part of many more controversies that are going to happen if she gets in office.

Give it up, right wingnuts and Obamalots–Hillary is the only Democrat with the smarts, strength, and record to win this contest. I love the way her detractors talk about her "negatives". Know why she has 30-40% negatives? Because 30-40% of the country is gung-ho conservative nutballs who fear her. The rest of us, democrats and independents who think that politics is about reason and intelligence, like her. Obama doesn't have strong negatives from the far-right because they know he is unelectable. Figure it out, dopes.

If Hillascare wins the presidency, does that mean Willie gets to entertain the spouses of the world leaders while the diplomatic meetings are being held?

Hee hhe heee,
Clinton. PHONY BALONEY.
BIG CIGAR, little relevance

It's that voice…that's why "Shrillary" has such negatives. Sounds like she's auditioning for the role of Eva Peron. Politically, her politics are closer to Hugo Chavez than JFK. Maybe she should try some fatigues and a beret.

It cracks me up whenever I see all of you Bush-haters become enraged whenever Karl Rove's name is mentioned. All of you sound just like Hillary-screeching apoplectic shrills who will demonize anybody that disagrees with their vision of a "no place" utopia. They fake compassion for the supposedly disenfranchised vunerable masses by promising to overflow their cups with manna from a more responsive government if only you vote for them. Then it's free bread and circuses for everybody except the rich, the Christians, and those who generally oppose their scheming Elmer Gantry-like plans to obtain more prestige and power. Rove hit it right on the mark when he talked about her negatives. People don't like her because she is a phony and a fraud and they believe that they can manage their lives better without government intrusion in their lives and their wallets. But why listen to me? I'm just a right-wing hate monger that serves proudly in that VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY that Ceasar Hillary rails against all the time.

Mrs.Bill Clinton will win the Democratic nomination but will lose the Presidency all the same. It is so sad to read the comments from the libs on this site. A bunch of generalities and half truths about how bad things are in America because of President Bush. Instead of countering Roves political analysis of Mrs.Bill Clintons chance at winning all we read is how terrible things are all because of one man in the Oval Office so this just assures Hillary will win. You libs are filled with hate and irrationality. Why would any majority of Americans trust you with running the Executive Office? Pathetic losers!

to Jim Silberman of NY:

please hit the CapsLock key- it's on the left side third key up. Thank you.

"Rove has shown an uncanny knowledge about the voters of America. I am certain that his facts are correct in this case as well. Hillary is unelectable for the same reasons as Newt. More people dislike her than like her. The current Dem primary polls do not tell the whole story. Karl Rove will engineer a Republican victory in 2008″

This is the same Karl Rove that organized the 2006 mid-term elections and predicted that the Republicans would retain control of the House and Senate. I would look for another crystal ball if I were you.

Re: Caren…

If you're gonna bag on someone, learn to spell.

"anybody with the last name Clinton scares the be-jesus out of Republicans."

I definitely can't dispute that one! But, it's not exclusive to Republicans.

"Most of you on here voted for him."
That's generally how politicians are elected.

"Now we got to flavors of kool-aid"
I think you mean two. And, we should be possessive (e.g. we've).

"Drink up all you weak minded easyily psyched folks."

Is that how a strong mind spells easily?

Maybe there should be a test for voting just as there is for driving.

Rove has shown an uncanny knowledge about the voters of America. I am certain that his facts are correct in this case as well. Hillary is unelectable for the same reasons as Newt. More people dislike her than like her. The current Dem primary polls do not tell the whole story. Karl Rove will engineer a Republican victory in 2008

Hillary Clinton winning the Democratic ticket would be the best thing that's happened to the GOP in years.

It would almost guarantee a Republican would remain in the White House.

IMHO, Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the United States.

Read it and weep and go Google: Clinton pardons Jewish Businessmen.

Here is a snip

New York Investigation

In New York, federal prosecutor Mary Jo White is conducting a separate criminal probe of the matter, including whether commuted sentences for four Hasidic Jewish businessmen were granted in exchange for votes in support of Sen. Clinton on Election Day, sources have told The Associated Press.

Many Hasidic communities tend to vote in blocs and because of that, politicians aggressively court their leaders.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has said that she sat in on a December meeting with supporters of clemency for the four Hasidic men who were convicted of stealing millions of dollars from the federal government, but said she played no part in her husband's decision to commute their sentences.

"I did not play any role whatsoever," she said when questions arose about the case last month. "I had no opinion about it."

Well Mr. Rowe in the history of exit polling, a candidate that was double digits behind has never come out on top, that is until Bush and company ran for a second term. Who is to say Hillary cannot overcome the negative. She has plenty of time. Again, you are wrong Mr. Rowe. When will you ever shut up and go away? When will you give us comments we want to hear about? When will you and Bush ever tell the truth about the war? Now that you have stepped down, please do us all a favor and stop making your lame predictions. None of them have come to past in the last 6 years, and they are not going to start coming to past now that you are out of the house!

If disinformation is the name of the game, then the Leftist attack will continue. Bush entered the White House as the most bipartisan President in generations - coming from a state in which State Democrats supported him. He invited Teddy Kennedy to write his NCLB education bill, and instituted bipartisan groups which enacted the planks in the Democrat party platform that they never were able to accomplish on their own. Any divisiveness came when Dems unilaterally withdrew from these working groups and started a Bush-bashing strategy to replace their legislative unity.

Hey Pat Did you attend Yale? Harvard? Cornell? Princeton? As a former Yale graduate student, I can tell you that a C average there is not very easy to acheive for any talented bright student who would otherwise earn A's at another university. You sound just like every other petty, jealous, resentful liberal.
I suspect that even Karl Rove couldn't get Mrs. Bill Clinton elected. She has far too much baggage and her shrill voice sounds like fignernails on a chalkboard. Four years of that? I don't think so.

What experience does hillary have???the only experience she has is being married to bubba

Hillary is the best thing to ever happen to the Republican party, and we are very happy she is the front runner. Senators are very easy to deafeat. Look at the history.

No one in modern history has ever been as devisive as she……:)

Posted By Dr. Van, Beaverton, OR. : August 16, 2007 3:42 pm

I'm sorry you expect people to believe these people to believe this as true? You've got to be joking, right?

Well,, I know this, you Democrats got some tuff choices coming up, and you better get off your high-horse and Bush-Bashing long enuf to fiqure out which Presidential Candidate you are gona vote for.

The Republicans have it easy, we know Bush ain't running for office in 2008 and a Romney, Giuliani, or even a Thompson would beat a Hillary, or a Hussien.

Either way, I sure hope the NAACP and the ACLU keep an eye out for those dead Democrats that keep voting out of Chicago.

On another note; Hey New Yorkers, is it true that Hillary secured her NY Senate seat when President Billy Bob Clinton gave pardons to the 4 convicted imprisoned Jewish Greenwich Village Business Partners ?

Tell me it ain't so.
,

I love how you sorry leftist claim Bush is a criminal. Outsmarted all of you twice and your only answer is he cheated. Your pathetic, and with two tours to Iraq I can tell you, None of the Dems have the military vote and never will. Go run your white flag up somewhere else. And the moron who said she would be a great Commander and Chief, you need to stop the crack habit. Our military was cut under the Clintons. Paid for by the Chinese. Guy in Canada, Stay on your side of the border with your comments. Don't see us sticking our noses in your socialist business.

Hilary won't win because she will not talk to anyone. Although she talks AT plenty of people. When the time comes to begin fielding questions from the public, which any candidate ultimately has to do, she'll crash and burn.
Plus, she's icky.

Hillary has experience?? What experience??

As a lifelong Democrat, I agree that Hillary can't win.

She and Bill spent 8 years lying to the American voters. She tried to ram Socialised Medicine down our throats using the same same closed door, secret meetings that Cheney is accused of.

Her Rose Law firm documents show up mysteriously, well after they were due.

Bill's guy Sandy Berger stuffs his underwear with damaging documents to the Clinton administration.

The list of immoral and likely illegal things done under the first Clinton administration is way too long to go into here. I wish we had a strong viable candidate.

There is no way I can vote for Hillary in the primary, because she can not win a general electon.

Never forget that the Clinton's and their cronies trashed the white house on their way out of office. Tons of damage to the place, and it's fixtures.

Bush was too much of a gentleman to mention it, even though his staff begged him to prosecute them.

They also stole the White House furniture. Are your memories that short? Some of it still has not been recovered. A complete lack of moral standards.

Like when they and their staff decorated the Christmas trees in the White House with condoms, and rubber dildos. Plus, how the white house computers were often used to download child pornography, using govt. issued credit cards. That from the Secret Service's reports.

Did anyone read the Hillery Health Care program that she tried to get passed? I did. You should be able to google it up on the web. It was literally taken word for word from Russia's medical program.

If you did not want the socialist system doctor assigned you, and paid cash for your own doctor, you and your doctor would be imprisoned.

No thanks. I personally do not want people of that low character in the White House again.

I just couldn't bring myself to vote for the woman…every time I listen to her, I am reminded of my ex-wife's mother.

I'm with Richard the expatriot in Alberta Canada. It's sad to see that the puppets on the left and right do as they are told and hate the other side so much. They let us fight amongst ourselves as they all get rich and rob us. When will you dummy's wise up and join a movement to take our country back from these crooked lying politicians. Vote everyone out and start over with citizens who work together for the best for the people of this country. Now go back to your non stop my party is better than your party banter.

S. A. Tired from Waco

>>And what does Rove have to say about the horrible ratings the President he help get elected has right now???

He says they are going up (they are), and that he will be at 40% or better near the end (we'll see).

Here's a way you can tell if Bush's ratings have bottomed and are remaining steady — "Journalists" at the NYT drop their references to it from 5 or 6 per "article" to 1 or 2. And if it is going back up, 1 or 2 per article to zero.

>>Bush's approval rating is the worst any President has ever had.

That's news to Jimmy Carter.

If I were Mrs. Clinton or B. Hussein Obama, I would worry about the Democrat congress's approval rating, which most polls put in the teens. As much contempt that some might have for the President, an overwhelming (80%+) majority of Americans have much more contempt for Reid, Peloi, and Co. And that is a serious problem for any candidate that is part of that group.

Pat P. First and foremost, Rove is a republican not just a hired gun. Secondly, The guy who invented the Hershey Bar failed and went bankrupt 5 times before inventing Hershey's Chocolate. The President graduated from both Yale and Harvard regardless of his GPA and was reelected to the TX Governorship in a landslide victory. Rove is probably right she has high negatives already before the primaries and of course once she is the nominee she will have to deal with all of her past mistakes which will come out all over again and lastly and what some people seem to forget, when she was the first lady she was seen as difficult and polarizing, she is seen by New Yorkers as a carpetbagger and has no governing experience. Remember the last Senator to get elected to the Presidency was Kennedy and believe me she is no Jack Kennedy

Who is the fatally flawed one here? Senator Clinton has lasted through First Lady of Arkansas, First Lady of the White House, and now Senator for many years.

Let's see, Carl. You have contributed to the downfall of America through an errant war, corruption and an empty treasury, the loss of respect for America worldwide, and now you can't make it to the end of the term? You and George are the farces of America.

Ok, Matt, I'll bite:

>>Those are some of the most ignorant statements ever to come out of Austin, Texas (excluding what happens at the capitol building every day).

You must not read the Letters to the Editor section in the Statesman. Or have listened to any Lloyd Doggett speech.

>> right-wing propaganda

When supported by fact, it's called truth. You might want to look into it.

Cheney? That's a fascinating anecdote you have there (he skipped out on a meeting with you….my admiration for him grows), but exactly how does that negate my points on the subject? It's well known that he lead Halliburton, and that (as I stated) he divested and left his position when he agreed to be the President’s running mate. And your problem with any of this is?

>>four years or more

Luckily for the country, it was “or more”.

>> Habeus Corpus

Here’s a clue – there’s a reason they’re being held in GITMO. As to the constitutionality of it, there is certainly precedent, and certainly continuing debate. But to cavalierly proclaim the President’s actions anti-constitutional is premature and, well, ignorant. Much like Al Gore’s desperate proclamation that global warming is “settled science”.

>>how they committed treason by exposing a CIA agent's identity

Of whom are you speaking? Joe Wilson? This DC hanger-on couldn’t find enough people to “expose” his wife to, starting with writing a lie-filled editorial in the NYT that he KNEW would bring white hot scrutiny on his life and wife. If Val was even remotely concerned about her identity, don’t you think at some time during pillow talk she would have mentioned that this might be a bad idea? Or is it Richard Armitage? Fitzy knew he was the one on day one of the witchhun…err…investigation. And Fitzy never charged him with this heinous crime. Why do you think that was, Matt? Maybe it wasn’t a crime after all? He also, after years and million$, didn’t charge Cheney or Rove. Apparently, to a liberal, a complete lack of evidence of any wrongdoing is clear proof that they did something wrong.

>> administration's disregard for the Constitution, due process, checks-and-balances, etc.

Again, do you have anything beyond the standard unsubstantiated talking points?

>> clearly only hear what you want to hear

I’ve listened to you.

>> anything that comes from Faux News

Interesting, since this is CNN’s website.

Btw, it’s HabeAS Corpus and FORE Fathers (there were more than four, you know). Sorry for the correction, just didn’t want you to appear ignorant.

AS THE COMMENTS ON THIS ARTICLE DEMONSTRATE, EVEN IF HILLARY IS ELECTED PRESIDENT, SHE WILL BE EXTREMELY DIVISIVE AND WILL IN NO WAY CONTRIBUTE TO A RECONCILIATION OF LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES. A MORE MODERATE CENTRIST PRESIDENT, FROM EITHER PARTY, WOULD BE BEST FOR OUR COUNTRY.

Pat P. of Huntington Station, NY….George W. was a successful business owner, scored 1206 on SATs (top 10%), had a 3.6 GPA at Harvard Business School, flew fighter jets in the Texas ANG, and was elected by landslides twice to Texas governor. You may want to check your facts before you underestinate what Rove had to work with here.

Here you can now clearly see what her (and all the Democrats) "position" is - which is "We're not Bush"

Here's a news flash for Dems - psssst - Bush isn't running in '08!

What is YOUR plan for America Dems - (I've been waiting for an answer to that since 2000.

I know the Republicans have problems and here lately they are sounding like the abusive husband who says he will quit and , Hey, it's better than being alone, but Man, the Democrats are a Party of Minorities which is the spitting mirror-image of Socialism , you know Socialism, where the Groups form to make a whole and eventually the strongest group consumes the rest and Bada-Bing Boda-Boom you have Communism.

Take note Democrats; This is where Hillary will take you.

And stop it, Barack Hussien Obama is black and muslim, just ask him to step on a Koran and watch his reaction.
,

BTW the polls show that if Hillary wins the nomination that most of the rep. candidates can beat her. So that really tells me we will get more of the same if we vote for her.

"Cheney was an executive for Hallibuton and concurrently in the U.S. Congress for decades"

No, he wasnt. He was in Congress in the 1980s, and came to Halliburton in the 1990s.

Get over your uninformed irrational and immoral hatred of a good man, Vp Cheney. It's a GOOD thing to have a VP or P who has private sector experience. Someone like Hillary whose spent her whole life as a political animal in politics - zero private sector experience except as a lawyer - she has no clue what real workers, business folks, and taxpayers are dealing with.

As for Habeous Corpus: Terrorists are being held in accordance with law, treaty and humane obligations, and the worlds worst terrorists have even been given pro bono representation to give them more rights than any other enemy combatants have been given in war (heck, even in WWII, if we caught a german out of uniform, you know what we did? shoot him! Yet now, 3 squares a day arent enough, due process is not enough, these terrorists who want us dead get *lawyers*). If you really think we should be releasing Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the architect of 9/11, you are nuts. Gitmo terrorists in the past who were released have in many cases ended up attacking us again in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are in a war with Al Qaeda terrorists and we wont win if we treat them like US citizen shoplifters in a county courthouse. That's why we should applaud Bush for trying to come up with appropriate Rules of Engagement with Congress on it and getting it passed last year.
You might disagree with specifics of the polities of treatment of terrorist prisoners, but to say Bush wants to trash the Constitution is just left-wing political garbage, as is the smear about "CIA agents identity" as treason (funny it was Richard Armitage, yet the liars on the left never apoligized to Rove for their smear of him).

LOL

Nic, that is the funniest thing I have heard in such a long time. I can't believe there is actually someone who thinks Hillary can't be bought. Thanks for making my day!!!

Posted By Nic, Toronto, Canada : August 15, 2007 4:16 pm
I just can't beleive people are still willing to defend bush and his administration. All he has done is reinitiate Nazi terror control over the american people with anti-civil liberty legislation and fear mongering. The world will be a better place with someone who cannot be bought in the white house. I think Hillary is that person. If not, we're all screwed.

Matt ~ Austin, Tx

You were calling out "Rockycreek" on ignorant statements. You'll want to get educated too before throwing stones.

You wrote, "Ever heard of Habeus Corpus? It's in the Constitution, and dubya specifically disregards it by holding prisoners indefinitely without charging them with any specific crime and with no sentencing. This is a blatant disregard for the United States Constitution."

You're making the ACLU quite proud - extending the rights of citizenship to non-citizens. The enemy-combatants being held in Gautanamo Bay Cuba are not US Citizens, and were not part of an organized sovereign military. They were terrorists/insurgents taken on the battle field and there are serious questions if the Geneva Convention applies - although we treat these prisoners with better care than most US citizens get (3 square meals, 8+ hours sleep, a promise not to offend their religion, a promise not to use any discomforting efforts to gather useful intelligence, etc).

And the other thing… it's FORE fathers - not FOUR fathers.

And I agree - with the level of intelligence exhibited by many posting here - I'm GLAD we're a republic nation!

You bleeding heart liberal democrat commies make me sick. Life, justice, and freedom are not fun, easy, or given to anyone. Americans have always fought for our way of life. Without this fight, you morons wouldnt have this nice country, a freedom of speech, or a platform to bash any president regardless of party. Move away, see how bad other countries are, then shut your damn commie mouth when you run back with your tail between your legs!

Rove is out of reality, just as he was about the 2006 midterms.

He was wrong - and he's not the voodoo man of politics.

It must be hard to be the brain for 2 people (Bush's brain).

But at least now we know the truth -
BUSH REALLY DOESN'T HAVE A BRAIN!!!

and, doesn't it all make more sense this way?

There is no doubt that Hillary will have a hard time getting elected, it is much too early to say anything yet. Look at the election of 1980. Despite Carter's extrodinary unpopularity, he led Reagan in most polls during the first half of the year. At that time Reagan was as polarizing as Hillary is now. Democrats hated Reagan because the party had been demonizing him as an extremist for years, and although conservative Republicans loved him, many moderate Republicans disliked him because he challenged Ford in the 1976 primary. Some Republicans (including Ford himself) felt that that was the only reason why Carter won in '76.
In fact, durning the 1980 primaries, George H. W. Bush's campaign accused Reagan of being unelectable. Of course Reagan was able to turn his 20 point deficet into a victory by 10 points. Now this election is not 1980 by any means-the biggest difference being that Bush can't run for reelection-but we cannot say anything for certain about '08

Senator Clinton, among others, appears to be pro-union. I have been a member of a union my entire working life, and although unions are beneficial in allowing employees to have a voice, I believe unions, and their demands, have been a partial cause of the outsourcing. Think of all the jobs the Chinese hold, for instance. Then, think about the current Mattel, Inc. recall. Would the same recall have occurred if the products had been American made? Some of the salaries the unions have demanded for their members have negated the profit margin, such that in order to keep stockholders investing, they have had to seek a lesser cost product. Answer? Outsourcing to foreign countries. Very bad idea. Too bad the bottom line has to be the dollar.

As a Republican, I hope Clinton gets the nomination. She will be so much easier to beat than Obama. Republicans can campaign that Obama is inexperienced…that's about it. There is SO much Republicans can say about her. Piece of cake.

Obviously the key in this article is that the opinion is coming from "Bush's Brain". Which considering the downward spiral this country is headed, says a lot about Rove's advice or lack there of. His opinion is as valid as this current administrations ability to succeed.

Some Liberal Clinton-bootlicker came up with all the 'good' stuff Clinton supposedly has done … spends money here, spends money there, spends money everywhere. I THE TAXPAYER PAID FOR ALL OF IT. stuff like "Grants for small NY businesses damaged by the terrorist attacks.
Broadband Internet access to rural communities.
The Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act." etc. ALL TAKING MONEY FROM THE TAXPAYER. GIVE CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE, WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAY FOR IT! We are idiots if we give politicians 'credit' for stealing our money and wasting it on socialistic welfare giveaways.

Like this nonsense:
Improving the quality and lowering the cost of prescription drugs." No, sir, the eeeevil *drug companies* are the ones coming up with better drugs. Hillary did squat about that, and her bills have raised the cost of drugs - not a single govt-paid prescription drug programs 'lowers the cost' they just SHIFT THE COST to taxpayers!

"Middle-class tax cuts, marriage penalty relief and property tax relief." gimme a break. She voted against practically all the Bush tax cuts, especially the key 2003 tax cuts, and is in favor of a huge $1 trillion tax increase - make the Bush tax cuts expire. By opposing making the Bush tax cuts permanent, she supports the largest effective tax INCREASE in our history.

Our next recession will hit by 2009 thanks to the Democrats stupid anti-taxpayer economic policies.

Hillary = Socialism

I'm a woman and would love to see a woman pres. but NOT THIS ONE. I'm afraid it will just be to close to the same thing we have now and God knows we can't take much more. I'm going to vote for change, real change, total change. JRE can be trusted to do right for this country he just makes Corp. America scared. Well, thats better then most of America being scared. They other candidates are a little too bought and paid for by somebody somewhere for me to trust them and TRUST IS WHAT WE MUST HAVE BACK IN THE WHITEHOUSE.

Reading some of the comments here is maddening and proof the 2 party system we currently have is designed to fool a bunch of dolts into voting for either party. If you vote for a democrat or a republican you are really voting for more of the status quo. Dont fool yourself into thinking you are making a difference. If you vote for Hillary because she is a women-you are a dolt. If you vote for Obama simply becuase he's Black-you are a dolt. If you are going to vote republican simply because you cant stomach the democrats-you are a dolt.

Rove is right regardless of what you think of him personally. Stop towing the party line and open your eyes-you will never get real change until we stop doing the knee jerk us vs them, left vs right, dem vs republican style of voting.

The demoncrats will be in mourning once again, when they fail to secure the White House. There's no way the American people will be fooled into voting for such a Socialist no matter how low the Clinton's stoop in their campaign espionage. If you like having your hard earned tax dollars going to weasels who don't want to contribute to society and live off your blood, sweat and tears, then by all means vote for Hillary. Just be ready for the U.S. to turn into a powerless third world nation.

Hey Rockycreek,

Those are some of the most ignorant statements ever to come out of Austin, Texas (excluding what happens at the capitol building every day). All I had to do was read your first few points to know that all you do is listen to right-wing propaganda.

Cheney was an executive for Hallibuton and concurrently in the U.S. Congress for decades, and he only left Halliburton days before it became known publicly that he'd be running for VP. I did consulting work for Halliburton in the 90s, and Cheney skipped out on a meeting with me (and other more important people) just minutes before it was to occur; this is when they let us know that he'd be gone for about four years or more.

Ever heard of Habeus Corpus? It's in the Constitution, and dubya specifically disregards it by holding prisoners indefinitely without charging them with any specific crime and with no sentencing. This is a blatant disregard for the United States Constitution. I could go on to talk about how he tried to pass what would have been the only Constitutional amendment EVER to restrict freedoms rather than to ensure or protect them, how they committed treason by exposing a CIA agent's identity, and any number of other examples of this administration's disregard for the Constitution, due process, checks-and-balances, etc. However, there's no use wasting time on all that since you clearly only hear what you want to hear, which is most likely anything that comes from Faux News.

Your main supporter, Philip from Louisiana, is equally as ignorant. Obama is a Christian, and yes I would absolutely vote him into the White House.

It's no wonder our Four Fathers didn't trust the American people to actively participate in politics the way a real democracy calls for.

It looks as though Hillary's camp can't keep themselves from looking for a fight. To bring Barack into this whole thing was classless…another reason that I won't be voting for her. We need a breath of fresh air, not this stale, divisive, Washingtonian mind set!

Barack! '08!!

This country needs true, qualified leadership. Having the population choose who is "electable" NOT "qualified" is why we're suck with Bush and the mess he's created. We deserve the best qualified person, who doesn't cater to special interests and CARES about our country, its future. My choice: go Bloomberg!

All this political HATE SPEACH. I think it is sad that people have to resort to call names like little children in a play ground. Grow up and join the the real world. Give good debate not America hate.

Hillary may have high negatives but she has an advantage no other candidate has ever had, a popular ex-president as a spouse. Bill campaigning is force to be reckoned with, it wouldn't surprise me if he drew bigger crowds than Hillary.

Bill and Hillary will sweep up the Left and Middle, so it doesn't matter what the Right thinks at all.

Clinton's fatal flaw is clearly visible in these posts. Is this what we want 4 more years of??

This country needs Hillary and I’m voting for her when she runs for office.

Hopefully her campaign slogan will be, “Mi Casa, su Casa”, because I’m ready for a shot at the gravy train she indicates is heading my way.

How else will we get her out of NY State? She’s done nothing, zippo, nada, in two terms and needs a real job!

J.Brown.

I love some of the leftist remarks on this site. Karl Rove, the evil Republican! Ha! He may be too far to the right, no arguments here. But branding the Republicans as the great Satan without acknowledging James Carville's contributions to the modern American political process from the Democratic side is decidedly without thought. As is most criticism of the Right by the Left, and vice versa. Start thinking, please.

And what does Rove have to say about the horrible ratings the President he help get elected has right now??? Bush's approval rating is the worst any President has ever had.

But, I have to say Rove does have a deep understanding of the term "Fatally Flawed." Since he is part of the most "Fatally Flawed" presidency this country has ever seen.

Women can barely run the kitchen, now we expect them to run the whitehouse.

I love reading these talk strings. They're like a bunch of fish trying to talk to a bunch of oil tankers.
The truth is the polar opposite of Phil Singer's talking points. Hillary seems personality disordered (power mad) and misandristic to me, the mere thought of her as Prez scares me to death!

I am an average american and have listened to her. Please point out what she has done to support the comment made by Phil Singer "she has the strength and experience to deliver change"? She voted for the war and did absolutly nothing to improve health care availablity to the poor an d middle class. She sounds more like a nagging screathing girl friend than a presidential candidate.

Hillary's a wannabe fulfilling what she decided her destiny was years ago. She has a corrupt skirt-chasing husband who she holds on to for political gain, and she's NOT accomplished anything noteworthy in her Senate career that qualifies her to be President. The only thing that "qualifies" her is whatever Bill clued her into when he wasn't busy doing the 50+ women his secret service detail claims were in and out of his revolving White House door. They have no respect for each other or for the country - neither deserves the Oval Office. Don't shoot the messenger (Karl Rove) if the message is accurate and in this case it is - Mrs. Clinton is fatally flawed!

Only Dick Cheney could give this man a run for being the most corrupt members of the Bush government. Give either of them a dime, and they will say anything, and do anything, to further the agenda of those for whom they work. I find it utterly unfathomable that anyone would give anything this man says any merit whatsoever. He is a bought and sold individual; futhermore and the actions of he and his cronies have stripped every American of many of their constitutional rights, and sold the country to the Chinese, who now own much of its uncontrollable debt.

Americans need to stop giving into the climate of fear. The world does not hate Americans no matter what you hear on TV from the extremists and the news soundbites. This govt is unpopular because they have thrown out the rule of law. Whoever is the next President needs to have an administration that sets an example of law abiding and co-operation, and upholds the great American constitution, not shreds it - the world will respect this.

Whomever Americans choose, seek strength of character, honesty, leadership and integrity. Seek someone who wants get your finances under control, and lead the world by example, not fear.

Can Clinton be that person? I think it needs a team, including Obama, Wesley Clark, and I wish somehow Colin Powell (there is a person who got the royal shaft from this administration). I really don't see any of the Republican contenders having the right stuff. Time will tell whether Hilary has it.

Like or dislike Rove … it doesn't matter much. The guy knows how to run a campaign. By your very admission that Bush is a buffoon, Rove somehow orchestrated consecutive victories for the President. Taking down Kerry and Gore along the way.

Hillary has nothing to run on other than being Bill's wife. Tell me what she has done as a Senator? What piece of legislation did she write? What has the Democratic controlled Congress enacted over the past 8 months? The answer is NOTHING. She can talk a big game but her record is null.

Rove is right. Hillary has too many negatives about her. There are enough people like me that would NEVER vote for Hillary under any circumstance. My detest for Hillary exceeds that of liberals and Bush. Hillary is far too polarizing of a figure and her numbers simply change much. There is little that Hillary can do to lower her negatives.

"You got that right Texas…

Here's my question to Democrats.

Would you vote in a Black Muslim for President ?

Posted By J. Philip, Mt. Olive, Louisiana : August 16, 2007 12:24 pm"

Sigh… he's not a Muslim, and he's not entirely Black either. Why we keep having to correct you uninformed people is beyond me.

In case some haven't yet noticed, we don't really elect presidents anymore. The fix is in: Hillary WILL be president. The tip-off was Murdoch's fund-raiser for her.

would someone please tell Rove to shut up and sit down?

some people have the balls to stand up and run for office; some don't. those that don't become whinning critics.

PLEASE! think for yourselves, people. ask questions and listen carefully at the answers.

don't believe anything Rove or any of those right wing war mongers have to say.

watch zeitgeist and then tell me what you think.

remember: ignorance is not bliss; ignorance is the factor the few who run the world COUNT on to perpetrate their own financial gain.

Hillary's the best thing that could happen…..for the republicans.

Joel from San Fran is incorrect. The two sleaziest presidents in history are the past two whose names start with the letter "C" That's sleaze with a capitol "S"

Read Audacity of Hope, read Clinton’s book. Listen to the two of them speak. You’ll start to notice key differences.
Hillary is trying very hard not to upset the existing system. She believes in taking money from lobbyists and she agrees with several tenets of the “war on terror.”
Obama shuns lobbyists because as a newcomer to the Senate he’s seen what tremendous money being thrown at politicians is doing to control the issues discussed. He has repeatedly, for years, since before any other candidate DARED to talk about it, said that the “war on terror” is a fear mongering tool to control the masses. He has said, quite correctly, that 9/11 was a heinous CRIMINAL ACT, not an Act of War, as Hilary has said.
That right there is the fundamental difference between the two. Obama realizes that you cannot go to war in the conventional sense with terrorists, who have no loyalties to borders and no infastructure.
On the flip side, Clinton is still exibiting a 90’s sense of cold war mentality, the same US versus THEM mentality that Bush has crowed from every building top for six years.
It is the difference between YESTERDAY and TOMORROW. A huge difference in cultural thinking and a world mentality versus an isolationist mentality.
You cannot simply treat terrorists like we’re at war, because the danger of being perpetually at war is the elimination of our rights, for good… not to mention the stress caused heart attacks of thinking that THE ENEMY is going to jump up from any rock.
Clinton would be either intentionally or niavely drawn into the use terror to control the population and her agenda, Obama would use common sense to change the stereotypes and get people thinking rationally and constitutionally again, that’s the main difference in my mind.

btw, Karl Rove is a dweeb that deserves to be in jail, not talking to other people who deserve to be in jail on the radio.

If he thinks resigning will get him and his administration off the hook for all the dirty illegal tricks he's played to keep Bush in office, he's definetely wrong.

They're coming for you Karl.

I can't believe the sexism that keeps showing up in people's reponses on this list. Haven't we evolved beyond this way of thinking? Obviously not.

There have already been female heads of state in countries all over the world. The United States is way behind other countries, not only in health care, but also in female representation in government. I guess that is no surprise when statements like this go unchecked on this list:

"Global warming is bad enough, we don't need a president who also gets hot flashes.

Posted By Lefty Loosey : August 16, 2007 10:43 am"

If you don't like Hillary, don't continue to attack her because she is a woman. Sexist comments like these will only energize female voters all over the country to rally behind her.

Since I happen to like Hillary, please keep it up! Sexist knuckle-draggers like you, Lefty Loosey, and you, James Day Sr., will only help the cause of finally having an intelligent, capable, and strong woman as President.

Lets Be honest. No matter how bad her ratings are and no matter how much the liberal media tries to build Ms. Clinton up, this country is not ready for a "Woman" president. I could run against her and win.

You got the story wrong and lied in your article just as Rush said you would - even though the transcript is right there on his website - and I listened to the interview.

You got that right Texas…

Here's my question to Democrats.

Would you vote in a Black Muslim for President ?

Hillary Rotten-Clinton is a flip flopper also.

Voted for the war and then voted against funding our troops, in a political move to make the hate groups of the far-left happy.
One thing Hillary and the Democrats have going for them and that is America's corrupt liberal wolfpack press………….who will have to work very hard at generating anti-GOP propaganda leading up to the November 2008 elections. But our liberal wolfpack doesn't mind at all.

Thank goodness this site allows more rational, realistic minds to comment - such as Greg and James from Phoenix!!! I support folks like you because you show the real BACKBONE and fortitude that people like Clinton, Pelosi, and whiner Reid WISH they had! Huntington Station, NY, SFO, Wentzville, MO, and West Chester, PA; say, what's up with her files being locked up in hubby's library until after the '08 election??? Can't help but question where honesty, integrity, and accountability would explain that, hhmm? When I look into the eyes of the Clinton's, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, and all their following…I see nothing but EVIL! I pity those who believe all their pandering. Apparently you've been demoralized or feminized into believing Hillary really gives a crap about anything other than domination and power. Oh, not to mention; Socialist government, the 'sleight of hand'. GET THE POINT. There will NEVER be a perfect President, not even your beloved Hillary 'wanna be'!

It's nice to know that Karl Rove resigned his post in the Bush administration just in time to start bashing Hillary Clinton. So much for putting him out to pasture. I don't think this is a surprise to anyone who has a brain. This is now his new full time job - destroy Hillary Clinton. After all, this is what he does best - attack, smear, destroy. He did it really well in the last election to defeat John Kerry.

What he doesn't realize is that his time may just be up. No one paid attention to his usual attack ads in the midterm elections. It totally backfired and the Democrats took control of Congress. I would hope that the American people have had their fill of Rove's brand of poisonous, slimy campaigning. This may also backfire big time against the Republicans. It could unite the Democrats and succeed in making Hillary much more popular. We hear a lot about how divisive and polarizing she is, but the real expert in that area is Rove. It's his stock in trade. The Bush administration has managed to use wedge issues like gay marriage to divide Americans, and Rove has been the architect of that strategy.

I hope that Americans will reject this blatant and coarse attempt to smear the first woman to run as a presidential candidate. Rove is just a lackey, an attack dog, a hatchet man, pure and simple. He is a disgrace to everything that is good and decent in this country.

He also forgot "thin-skinned", just like her supporters. To Samina from Centennial…some here believe you "said it all". That may be true, you pretty much touched on every DNC/Moveon.org factoid. So, please allow me to respond.

>>Its so outrageous that some of these right wing wacos are blaming Hillary on her campaign speeches.

Actually, the left wing wacos (sic) aren't too happy with her either. Hence, Rove's astute point.

1)Erasing Clinton's surplus

Never was a surplus. The year Clinton/Gore claimed a balanced budget actually had a $180 billion deficit. And, of course, surely you remember the Clinton-Gore recession, the Clinton/Gore high-tech and dot.com busts? The Bush Administration had to overcome all of these, and has done so spectacularly.

2)Attacking a sovereign country unilaterally who never attcked us

Hmmmm, sounds like the Clinton/Albright/Clark plan for Kosovo/Bosnia to me.

3)Falsely telling american people that Saddam has a link to 9/11

Not only did he NEVER say this, he never even implied it. What he did say was the truth, that Saddam was one of the world's leading sponsors of international terrorism. But I don't give Bush credit for this, he was only repeating the case made by Clinton, Gore, and the Democrats in congress for years.

4)Spending 1 trillion taxpayers money

Since when did spending trillions of taxpayers' money bother liberals?

>>on endless war

It will end, the only question is do you want to win or lose (and I'm pretty sure we know your answer)?

which benefitted comapnies like Exxon,

Really, how so? Did it also benefit Occidental Petroleum, from which the Gore family fortune is based?

Haliburton (Cheney connection)

2 points — 1) Cheney divested long ago, and 2) Halliburton's international logistics subsidiaries have largely taken a bath on the Iraq operation. Also, I welcome any hard figures you might have on how much taxpayer money would be saved if our famously inefficient federal government were doing the work.

5)disregard constitution

Really? Which parts, and how so? In detail. Please offer something substantial, not just the standard vapid talking points. And if liberals want us to believe they care about the Constitution, they might want to start distancing from their activist judges who seem obsessed with rewriting it. What did Al Gore call it, a “living document”? Just stop with all the fake outrage, it’s always been the libs who find the constitution a real impediment to their goal of guaranteed equal outcome for all. There are several countries where this has been achieved. Cuba, N. Korea, China, and soon to be Venezuela. Why not go ahead and move to one of those workers' utopias?

6)illegal wiretapping

"illegal"? How so? Could you point us to the case, decision, or precedent making it so? Also, obviously you never heard of ECHELON, which operated during all 8 years of Clinton with nary a peep from the left. Go figure.

7)mismanagement in Katrina like disasters

This one I love. The whole world saw how liberals and blue-staters really treat the poor. Louisiana is the quintessential blue state. Nagin and Blanco should have been brought up on criminal charges, but with the help of the DNC and counterparts in the MSM, blame was shifted to Bush/Rove. Absurdity at its highest level….

8)politicizing justice dept. by appointing lawyers from 3rd grade schools

Despite the Harriet Meyers debacle, Bush's judicial appointments have been spectacular. Finally, the trend of activist, anti-constitution judges has been reversed.

9)using executive priviledge to pardon Libby (who exposed CIA operatives)in order to protect Cheney and Rove

Once again (now pay attention)…Pat Fitzgerald certified that Libby committed no "leak" crime and "exposed" no one. Jury members specifically stated that they returned the guilty verdict because they chose to believe Tim Russert's flawed memory of a conversation over Libby's flawed memory.

Protect Cheney and Rove from what?? Both cooperated fully with Fitzgerald, who spent untold millions certifying that they did nothing wrong (his bitter post-verfict speech not-withstanding).

Please read the DailyKos more carefully. Even they know that Bush didn't pardon Libby, he commuted his sentence so he wouldn't have to spend time in prison prior to his exoneration on appeal.

10)making a big mess in health care which is benefitting insurance and pharmaceutical cos. big (seniors still buy from Canada)

Good, I hope this means the millions of sick people around the world, but specifically Canadians, will see the light and stop streaming here for health care from our "big mess" of a health care system. Our health care system wasn't a "mess" until the government started monkeying with it. Laughably, liberals want the cause of the mess to be the solution!

11)allowing power companies to pollute by saying that global warming is hoax

Power companies? I thought it was the evil car companies (except for Toyota who makes the Prius, they're still on the "in" list, right?).

Climate change isn't a hoax. It has always occurred, and will always occur. Despite claims from non-scientist Al Gore, the issue of mankind's contribution is far from settled. But don't let that get in the path of your pop culture bandwagon.

Carbon offsets aren't a hoax either, they are a scam. Quite possibly the perfect scam in that both parties (scammer and scammee) enthusiastically publicize their participation in the scam. Wish I had thought of it.

Bush correctly gave Kyoto the Heisman shove. Another outstanding decision for which we can all be greatful.

12)non funding stem cell research on the pretext of religion and faith while not caring for thousand innocents who die on this useless war

The absurd comparisons continue. What do the two topics have to do with each other?

Plural-potent stem cell research is proceeding nicely without taxpayer funding. And, recent developments regarding new sources of plural-potent stem cells are about to render the argument moot. But don't let that stop the hate.

13) creating fear amongst americans in the name of terror and on and on…….

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was the terrorists that did that. I don't live in fear, why do you?

But dealing in fear has always been the SOP of the left. Global warming fear, Social Security fear, Religious Right fear, SUV fear, welfare reduction fear, having to get a job to support yourself fear, etc., etc. I'm not sure I can remember when liberals offered anything but fear.

>>Can these idiots come up with one achievement of Bush's 7 years in power?

Well, the only idiots I see here are the liberal posters, so I'd have to say the answer to your question is no. For a few of his achievements, read above.

>>Hillary has atleast tried to bring in universal care for all the americans, but these wacos haunted her all along.

She was an arrogant, (truly) unelected, and unaccountable pseudo official that tried to force fascistic government-dispensed health care down our throats. Americans (remember them?) spoke on that issue. And it looks like they will do it again.

>>Yes Clinton lied under oath! But, that is to protect his family from personal ebarassment.

No, he perjured himself and suborned perjury in others. These are called crimes. Serious crimes. That is why he was impeached by congress, and disbarred by the heavily Democrat-supporting ABA. A much better way to save one's family from "ebarassment" (sic) is to not sexually molest campaign workers and volunteers, and not solicit oral sex from young, lowly interns.

>>But, this administration has lied to american people

Again, prove it. And think for yourself. No DNC/Moveon/DailyKos factoids/lies.

>>and literally squandered trillions of taxpayers money

Really? That's a lot. Where did it go, again?

>>If that money had spent on american people, there would not be 42 million uninsured, and millions of homeless due to Katrina like disasters.

“millions of homeless”? My, my, the hyperbole is in high gear now! Again, care to prove that with well-sourced facts?

So-called social spending has grown shockingly under Bush. That's why his own party is displeased with him. Liberals, who should be lauding him for repeatedly giving into them, are too integrity-challenged to do so. Hate and regaining power are all that matter.

>>If you don't admit that these policies were wrong, go ahead and rubber stamp another republican who still supports Bush's policies.

A vote for Hillary will be the ultimate rubber stamp.

Who cares what Karl Rove thinks?! Although I am not a Hillary Clinton fan, much prefer Obama or Edwards, Mr. Rove's opinion is irrelevant!

Hillary in the oval office ? Since she likes girls too like Bill cigar prices are for sure to go up. Hey Hillary, What really happened to Vincent Foster and all those other people who died that you and Bill knew ?

Millie,