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David, Salinas, CA ...

"There’s no way a poor farmer from Mexico can fight his way through the bureaucracy to get a legal temporary visa."

Millions of other people already have. So he can do it too.

"stop talking about deporting the labor we need"

They don't need to be deported. All it takes is for the CURRENT laws on the books to be enforced.

Which is EXACTLY what Dubya refuses to do.

Only 318 employers out of five and a half million in this country have been prosecuted for hiring illegal aliens since 2001 and the number of ICE agents assigned to enforce current immigration laws in the workplace have decreased from only 240 back in 1999 to now less than 100.

Cut off their source of income, and they'll leave voluntarily rather than starve to death – no mass deportations needed.

"Travis asks: 'Who could possibly be for illegal immigration?'
"And it’s a good point, because none of us are, even those of us who support ..."

There are many people who support illegal immigration: businesses that employ them, women who hire them as maids, men who hire them to do yard work, children who have come to love their Latina Nanny who has cared for them for years, school districts who employ them as janitors and cafeteria workers, loan sharks who exploit them, their legal relatives here in the US, Western Union who collects millions in money order fees and wire transfers, and – most of all – the children and parents to whom they send money.

This problem cannot be solved because no majority of Americans will ever agree on any particular solution. No matter what solution is proposed, powerful constituencies will block that solution. Our leadership and our voters (us) have ignored this problem since the 1930's when a serious deportation effort took place. We never look at the long term consequences of any policy that is convenient for the moment. Supporters of slavery certainly didn't look ahead a few generations to imagine the problems they were creating for the nation. Now we have a mess. Now we have a big problem that was once a small problem.

So, what can we do then? Commit ourselves to a few generations of cultural conflict, encourage school disctricts to teach all children English and Spanish, and require US corporations working in Mexico to pay high wages to their workers there. And, we can also explain to our children why we were so negligent in managing the nation before handing it over to them.

How is having messages in Spanish a big deal? Some legal immigrants speak Spanish.

Thats the danger of confusing legal with illegal immigration, and mixing in the notion that if someone speaks Spanish they are automatically an illegal immigrant.

Rick from Chicago Illinois -

Right. That’s what I’m for, too. But the anti-immigration folks are the same ones fighting a legal guest worker program. There’s no way a poor farmer from Mexico can fight his way through the bureaucracy to get a legal temporary visa. Set up a legitimate system that works and I’ll go along with it. Until then, stop talking about deporting the labor we need. It’s not going to happen.

David, Salinas, CA

you did the impossible ...

you made me agree with Jon in Sacramento, Ca.

"Who is going to pick the crops in my valley once you’ve spent our tax dollars to deport the people who put the food on your table?"

L-E-G-A-L immigrants.

Here you go my west coast friend:

You wrongly started the name calling (homophobe and xenophobe and I just returned volley).

First off, I agreed with the war, but disagreed with the execution of the war and like you I find great promise in Bidens idea, but only after the surge is attempted and we give the government a little more time (I am so pissed off that they took a month of during this while our men and women are still fighting).

As for the tax cuts for the rich, I am so tired of this, tax cuts were across the board for everyone that ACTUALLY PAYS taxes and those tax cuts (one of the few things that a president can do to spur the economy) got us out of the Clinton recession (making it the shortest in history).

The other thing a President can do is pass NAFTA, but instead of helping lower and middle class people it is killing us, but your president Clintin did that.

He also came up with the don't ask, don't tell military philosophy, does that make him a homophobe or does that only apply to Repubs?

Your narrow minded view on illegal immigration is admirable, only because you do care about the folks near you.

But I have never said that many of these folks were not hard workers that frankly put some of our welfare scammers to shame.

The fact is that not all ILLEGALS are hard workers, some are criminals, terrorists and layabouts that want to slurp off the countries resources. It is to bad that the good get treated with the bad. We need to.

We need to expedite the process where the folks that have been waiting and doing it legally, get the first and immediate crack at the American dream.

Upgrade the damn computer system and have people in charge that are numbers geeks, but can get the job done as tracking is the most important part of this.

Borders secured via a wall and guards. If you to cross in you get shot as you are breaking into our country.

No more anchor babies, that is the dumbest law this country (Kennedy) ever passed.

The debt the illegals pay that are here should be enough that nobody will ever want to do it illegally again and if the don't, deportation.

All should be required to sign in and announce their citizenship intentions to the government and after say 3 to 6 months, those who have not, get deported immediately with NO hope for ever becoming a legal. We need to know who is here for obvious reasons.

After this period, any employee that hires someone that can't produce proof that they did submit their names will receive hefty, hefty fines just as a first resort.

The employer must also pay at LEAST the minimum wage at the time.

They all should be required to learn basic English.

No more sanctuary cities, states or towns.

After all these criteria are met and the good are weeded out from the bad, we need to expedite a temporary guest worker program that allots so many spots for REAL workers (Randomly is the only way to do it, and if you don't make it, back home and your first in line, if and when the amount is expanded or the others fail)that lasts no more than 3 years and after that time, if all of the above criteria are not met, they lose their status and must return home and get back in line.

If they do meet the criteria, citizenship can be met through the new EXPEDITED channels.

Enjoy hammering my thoughts.

Stephanie writes: “these are not just some innocent immigrants in search of a better life; they're stealing someone else's”

But that’s my point, Stephanie. They aren’t. No one else around here wants these jobs.

Jon from Sacramento makes some excellent points, and writes:
“What is wrong with insisting that ALL immigrants comply with US laws?”

Nothing at all. That’s what I want, too. I don’t like the system we have now one bit. Not only does it let the good farm-workers we need come through, it also lets the real criminals and the drug-mules. So I’m all for fixing the system. I want secure borders, too. And I never want to give illegal workers a job that a legal immigrant or an American citizen wants. Not a farm job, not a construction job, not a Wal-mart job. Never. I’m a patriot, not a radical. If there are Americans or legal immigrants who want the jobs they should get them. But in area most of those people can do a lot better than picking spinach. I’m just trying to come up with something that will work in my valley, and not in the make-believe world of talk radio.

What I don’t want to do is deport a bunch of people we need, (who are already doing their jobs in peace, minding their business and paying their taxes) who have families here who ARE citizens, and shipping them out of the country to wait in line while we scramble around to replace them and the fruit rots on the vine. That just doesn’t make sense. (By the way on a pragmatic level it’s just not going to happen, not because of liberal values and immigrants-rights groups but because of conservative lobbyists working for Dole and Green Giant).

BTW, Tom and I are up a few stories fighting about Hilary Clinton. I’m sure he’ll be down here eventually.

David, Salinas

You wrote, "After you kick out everyone who didn’t fill out the proper forms, are you going to come out to Salinas and pick lettuce, Tom? Or are you just going to sit back in Massachusetts and take pot shots at the hard-working immigrants who feed your family?"

- – - – - –

Hi David,

Tom is quite capable of speaking for himself – I just wanted to weigh-in on your question.

Farther north of you in the Sacramento valley and Sierra Foothills our primary crops are tomatoes, rice, alphafa, apples, pears, etc. While I'm not a farmer, I work in an industry (insurance) where a number of farmers are my clients.

They most all agree – employing LEGAL immigrants is not unreasonable or impossible. Do you think because an immigrant goes through the citizenship process he no longer wants to work? Once a member of the family becomes a citizen they can sponser other family members.

I am very PRO immigrant and I appreciate the hard working ethic most immigrants bring to our country. With long lines for legal immigration, there are be plenty of folks interested in taking over the work the illegal immigrants lose by going through the proper process.

What is wrong with insisting that ALL immigrants comply with US laws?

Romney forgets the whole US is a sanctuary, not just a few cities. Otherwise his five sons could not avoid service to their country.

Lest anyone forget, these are not just some innocent immigrants in search of a better life; they're stealing someone else's. They are STEALING AMERICANS’ IDENTITIES as well as TAX FUNDED WELFARE BENEFTS. Even legal immigrants send Billions out of our Economy and this doesn't show love of America, it shows immigrants taking advantage of us Americans who don’t get our taxes back, only immigrants who leave after seven to ten years get taxes back. Some contribution… When every American is fed, housed, healthy, educated and employed, then and only then should we even be considering giving away our very limited and very precious resources to people who don't belong here. There is only so much land available and then it's gone. What then? I guess the Christian thing to do would be to sacrifice your own children, grandchildren, etc., for the immigrants because they deserve to live and Americans do not deserve to live.

Tom -

Sorry you got misunderstood. I wrote my masters thesis on internet sarcasm, so I know how often it goes awry. It’s a lot safer to keep it literal. Now on to the subject at hand:

You say I live on the “left coast” and have a “far left agenda”, which is just wrong. You east coast folks from states the size of postage stamps have no idea how big and diverse California is. (You could drop Massachusetts in one of our valleys and never notice it). I live in a conservative inland farm town 275 miles from LA. We grow lettuce, spinach, artichokes and strawberries along with hundreds of other vegetables you eat every day. (If you live entirely on raw red meat, we raise that, too) Salinas is heartland. And I’m a fiscal conservative, unlike you Republicans who’ve spent trillions we don’t have on a senseless war and tax cuts for your rich friends. Finally, on this immigration issue my position is almost identical to that of President Bush and Senator McCain (and Romney and Giuliani before they flip-flopped), who are hardly members of the radical left. I’m not pushing some extremist agenda. This is just simple economics and common decency.

We do indeed live in a shining city on a hill. Outside that city we’ve placed two signs. One says “Keep out”, the other says “Help wanted”. If your family was hungry, which sign would you pay attention to? It’s time we face our own hypocrisy. We lure undocumented workers to this country with the promise of jobs they need to survive. No one else wants these jobs and we can’t get by without them. We eat the food undocumented laborers provide and then we call them criminals for doing the back-breaking work we hired them for in the first place. Yes they broke the law and I don’t condone that. But honesty demands that we take some responsibility for enticing them to break that law. We entrapped them and it’s time we admitted it. Let’s make them pay a fine and let them get back to the work we need them to do. These people are not here to commit crimes. They’re here to pick strawberries. They aren’t terrorists. They’re farmers. They love America. They pay their taxes. They do their jobs. If you don’t respect the work they do, I’d suggest you show the courage of your convictions and stop eating. Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for an answer to the question I’ve now asked in seven posts:

Who is going to pick the crops in my valley once you’ve spent our tax dollars to deport the people who put the food on your table?

After you kick out everyone who didn’t fill out the proper forms, are you going to come out to Salinas and pick lettuce, Tom? Or are you just going to sit back in Massachusetts and take pot shots at the hard-working immigrants who feed your family?

Answer the question.

All candidates are politicians not to be trusted; they do not even trust one another. How are we too trust them? Laws and bills have been written for generations that they all can not totally be comprehended even by attorneys and politicians them selves! Our immigration laws do not succeed to correct illegal immigration when federal and local governments ignore these laws is absolutely the most correct statement on print to date. That is big time problems with cities that are adopting sanctuary policies to aid illegal aliens. Sanctuary cities become hideouts that encourage illegal immigration and undermine securing our borders hold true in ever scene of our nation’s security. It is not just a few towns and cities and/or a few singular states it is all over the US; who are they trying to fool, we live here also, and we witness each and every day. If our government leaders do not take action soon, I do believe the legal American citizens will subject illegal alien’s too difficult times for their futures.

A very good point here is; at the moment these people either stayed here on expired visas and/or stepped across our borders they are breaking our laws! Illegal aliens know what they have done when entering or staying illegally and will continue to break our laws out of no respect as long as they stay here. What is our best know reason for our federal and local governments not to follow laws created by them selves? Go after our government entities, large corporate firms, agricultural farmers, large construction firms and landscape employers that will hire illegal aliens for starters. Small businesses can not afford stiff penalties and/or fines apposed on legal Americans for hiring illegal aliens, also the practice of hiring illegal aliens unknowingly buy smaller businesses it is rare.

Cut off all aid funding for illegal immigrants, close the doors on all programs that aid influx of illegal aliens and reopen the doors for legal tax paying citizens of this country! All of our countries elite and politicians of federal and local governments may suffer their own downfall when ignoring the people and not just ignoring their own written laws.

I am a Democrat from Mass., and would have considered voting for Romney had he not flip-flopped on immigration, abortion, and gay rights.

As the co-founder of a corporation, I had faith in his ability to lead the country in a business-like fashion, a la his governorship and the way Bloomberg runs things in NYC.

I wish he would stay focused on his economic policies and not his unfounded policies on immigration. They are unfounded because he has flip-flopped on this issue, and in addition, has not produced a comprehensive plan to take care of the illegal immigration plan.

This Romney guy is just a flip flopping dunce. When it's convenient he wud tout liberal views, when it's not, he's tout republican views. This guy flip flops and dances with issues worse that MC Hammer doing the 'hammer time'. And why does he normally have so much make-up on?

I would like one answer, if 'amnesty' as how some think the immigration reform law was, and Romney doesn't think 'amnesty' is the answer on how to get 12 Mil illegals out of our country that are here and have been for the majority most, for years, then how does Romney plan on removing 12 Million already present, from the US? I personlly think these three can pay for all the ad's they want, it still does not change the fact that the Immigration Reform Bill that did not pass, was not 'amensty', the immigrants were going to have to work to become Americans, it was NOT going to handed to them on a silver platter. AND it would have made it MANDATORY for any local officials to have to notify the FED's to any illegal, especially one with a criminal offense like a felony or sexual assults on children, assults or weopon charges, crimes like that, the FEDS would have to be notified, where now, they don't.
Sure would have saved those four innocent children in Newark, NJ, had that Immigration Reform Bill passed.
I see no suggestions, yet, as to HOW to get the already 12 Mil illegal immigrants from this country.
I do believe that cutting back the money for these cities is a good idea. But what I read, about the fence, and tightening the borders and notifiying the Feds, are all of what the immigration reform bill, that so many didn't want to pass, were in the immigration bill. Now they just want, all three of these people in this article, to only enforce and pass the 'bits and pieces' of what was in the bill already. The only way I see of dealing with these 12 Million illegals, is for ALL local Law Enforcement IS to notify the FED's of their KNOWN existance already. And let the FEDS do their jobs.
That is the ONLY way NOW, that they can even hope for our country to be safer, is to let the FEDS do their jobs and 'locals' not hide out OR hire the illegals.
The Feds have NICE Federal laws, they know what to do, IF the locals will let them and not hide them.

It may not be a bad idea to have a Spanish page so that the illegal immigrants know his stance. Many of the illegals can't read, however, in any language. Being bilingual (English/Spanish) does not necessarily make one sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants, most of whom are Spanish speakers. I haven't heard if Mitt (where'd he get that name?) Romney knows Spanish.

Mark, Princeton, NJ ... was he right "as usual" PRE or POST flip flop?

Romney doesn't even believe the crap that comes out of his own mouth; he is just saying it to get elected. What a fake!

Shannon: I agree with Mark of Princeton. Tom's previous posts were pretty sound ones, unless he got converted by David, Salinas, CA.

Governor Romney is right on this issue, and more important, he has a solution to fix it.

Good work, Governor!

You must be a newbie Shannon (I apologize), I along with many others personally have been called Xenophobic and unbelievably un-American for simply believing that ALL our laws should be obeyed and not picked randomly for enforcement.

I will vote for anyone that wants to straighten out our ILLEGAL immigrant problem that doesn't include amnesty, tightens the border (first), prosecutes the companies that profit from abusing and hiring illegal immigrants and lastly, I want the candidate that will make it easier for the good hard workers who want to LEGALLY become my neighbor and friend, pay taxes and really EARN the American dream.

This same individual who harkens from obviously the "left coast" also feels that if you believe marriage is between one man and women ONLY, but are for civil unions with all attached rights (it is about rights, isn't it?) you are a homophobe.

Since his far left agenda was going to be posted AGAIN here, I figured I would use sarcasm to get my point across and it got your attention for how idiotic it sounds to actually believe those far left thoughts.

Welcome aboard and I am glad we agree on speaking up on this all important issue.

Travis asks: “Who could possibly be for illegal immigration? “

And it’s a good point, because none of us are, even those of us who support a guest-worker program and a route to citizenship for those undocumented workers here already. (Yes, I know they broke the law and I don’t condone it, but I also don’t compare leaving a poor village to accept an honest job and help your family, with rape, murder and terrorism). I want secure borders to keep the terrorists and the meth-smugglers out. I want a crack-down on over-stayed visas, which are far more costly and dangerous than border infractions. I want a sane and safe and humane and secure immigration policy for the greatest country on earth. But I don’t want to spend a fortune we don’t have, in order to deport people we can’t do without.

It’s not that I think you ship-em-all-home crowd are bad people. I know you love America and want to protect her. But you don’t get it. You don’t know how things work in my little farm town, and we put the food on your table so you need to understand. I’ve asked this question in five posts and have gotten no answers: If you deport my neighbors, who is going to pick our crops? We can’t just build walls. We need to eat.

But that’s not my problem with Mitt Romney. I can honestly see taking either side of this issue in good faith. But not both sides. Romney has been on every side of this immigration (and stem-cells and gay rights and abortion and who knows what else). He says one thing to win an election in Massachusetts, and another to win one in Iowa. And that’s not the kind of man that should be President of the United States.

That Romney-man should focus on pressing domesting problems first. Because I think it's still ridiculous that the Dutch navy had to assist during the New Orleans floodings two years ago during the hurricane Katrina. This goes for other infrastructural problems too.

Instead, he keeps on shouting the typical old neo-conservative rhetorics. Worse: he sounds like a perfect follow-up of Bush Sr. And that's exactly what the United States of America does not need.

Romney is just stating the obvious and making a desperate attack trying to make Rudy a scapegoat.

I agree with some of the others that Mitt just says whatever he thinks is trendy to get votes. One day he runs television ads in Spanish. The next day he blames city governments for illegal immigration.

The problem is with American businesses that hire the illegals by the millions. Businesses will do whatever it takes to increase profits and keep labor cost to the bare minimum. That's why Republicans and George Bush have been heavily lobbied by the construction industry among others to allow for work visas and pathway to citizenships.

These clowns could care less about Americans and having a decent minimum wage that maybe people can survive on. As is – a lot of businesses only hire illegals with bogus documentation because they are the only applicants that are willing to make $7 per hour.

All they care about is getting big lobby money to bankroll their campaigns.

Also, I'm really surprised at those that claim that Romney's having a website in spanish is in conflict with his views on illegal immigration. There are plenty of legal immigrants, in our country who speak spanish and there are plenty of illegal immigrants who speak other languages. I would hope that those expressing that opinion aren't basing it on any resentment towards hispanics in general, because that's hard to label as anything other than racism.

I'm not a romney supporter but he has a decent perspective on immigration. I like that he clearly states that immigration is a good thing, but illegal immgration is not. For some reason, a lot of the other republican candidates have a hard time with this one. Its not about preserving a pure culture or language, or any of those things, its about establishing order and the rule of law at our borders so that we can benefit from legal immigration and immigrants can be protected from abusive hiring practices.

Finally something from Romney I can totally agree with.

Giuliani has a documented history of harboring and advocating illegal immigrants. Rudy has made speeches condemning the NIS and the way they handle illegal immigrants. Rudy sued to overturn a federal law enabling local law enforcement agencies to work with federal authorities in cases of illegal immigration. Then Rudy makes a campaign speech declaring his frustration at the number of illegal immigrants in the United States. Rudy is a complete hypocrite. He should be looking in the mirror and condemning himself for adding to the illegal immigration problem.

And what is Rudy's comeback? That Romney used a landscaping firm which employs illegal immigrants. I have hired landscaping firms. I have no clue what their employee base is, nor do I have any control over that. Is Romney supposed to screen every employee of every firm he hires to do work for him? Romney's landscaping firm has illegals working for them because of mayors like Giuliani.

Romney is, as usual, right. Secure the border first, then deal with everything else.

Shannon,

I think Tom's post was an exercise in parody and sarcasm.

If not, the guy has serious issues.

I could not agree more! We need to cut off ALL federal funds immediatly to the santuary cities Individual cities can not pick and choose the laws they wish to obey. If that is the case then they must be willing to give up the benefits. You can't have it both ways.
I am not voting for Mitt but I sure aggree with him on this issue.

Who could possibly be for illegal immigration? I can't even believe this is an issue. Is this a nation of law and order or not? If you don't like the law then change the law, don't ignore it!

And, yes there are citizens who communicate in Spanish primarily. Therefore, Spanish ads, websites, etc. Shouldn't the Republicans start heavily courting the Hispanic population as Romney is trying to do? But from a "law and order" and "family values, faith" prospective, not the Democrat's "freebies" prospective.

Stay in Mass and I will help send all the illegals to your town and state!!! Your remarks are not only dangerous and echoed by left wing nuts, but they undermine one of the major problems we are facing as a nation... And terrorism is a bumper sticker... Go back under the rock you live under sir!!! I am refering to this nut case:

Terrorism is simply a bumper sticker, a slogan you fool.

You are a xenophobic hater of the worse kind, pushing legal immigration instead of rewarding people that break our laws.

I am ashamed to be from Mass.

Posted By Tom – Dedham, Mass : August 21, 2007 4:22 pm

Great Job Mitt... I couldn't agree with you more!!! This is America, not Mexico, South America, Europe or Africa!!! This policy of sancuary cities is destroying this country... End Federal funding to all sancuary cities and then see who starts enforcing the law!!! Great job!!!

not sure why having ads in spanish is inconsistent with being in support of stopping illegal immigration.

maybe it is if you are a bigot and hate people who speak spanish. but if you aren't you understand teh distinction of the fact that there is value in immigration, that is what has made us strong, but that a nation without borders is no nation at all.

romney understands this without being a bigot. we wants order and reason in an immigration policy. not chaos and not ability to control it to our advantage.

Finally, someone who talks sense about the illegal immigration issue and even has solutions ... and he's a conservative and former governor of a liberal state.

Gee, maybe Romney can even get Democrats and Republicans to work together again and maybe, GASP, get them to even respect each others views.

Of course I still believe in the Easter Bunny, but what the heck ... Romney might actually be worth a try.

Uh, Romney's website is in espanol. How is this guy going to get anything done on illegal immigration? This guy will say and do anything to get elected. Wake up!

Don't believe everything that is said.
He sure will not have my vote for sure.

This is one issue I agree with Romney on!

You mean right-wing zealot Mitt, how dare you want our laws to be enforced and wanting tighter border security to keep even terrorists out.

Terrorism is simply a bumper sticker, a slogan you fool.

You are a xenophobic hater of the worse kind, pushing legal immigration instead of rewarding people that break our laws.

I am ashamed to be from Mass.

Romney is dead right on this one.

Romney will say anything to get elected.

Yet another flip-flop from a candidate who will say anything to get elected.

Romney in a November 2005 interview with the Globe, called the McCain/Bush position: "quite different from amnesty, because they required illegal immigrants to register with the government, work for years, pay taxes, not take public benefits, and pay a fine before applying for citizenship...That's very different than amnesty, where you literally say, 'OK, everybody here gets to stay... It's saying you could work your way into becoming a legal resident of the country by working here without taking benefits and then applying and then paying a fine." In the same interview, Romney said it was not "practical or economic for the country" to deport illegal immigrants, adding: "These people contribute in many cases to our economy and to our society,""

Romney in the March 30, 2006 Lowell Sun, said: “I don’t believe in rounding up 11 million people and forcing them at gunpoint from our country ...Those that are here paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process towards application for citizenship, as they would from their home country.”

As Governor, Romney used undocumented labor for both Massachusetts Public Works projects and his own yard work.

It continues to amaze me that even though the Constitution clearly highlights that the federal government sets the laws for immigration local governments continue to do as they please.

This is the type of situation which existed under the Articles of Confederation and which is why they were replaced with the current Constitution was adopted. It is about time the Federal government started doing their job and went after local governments who choose to thumb their nose at the federal laws. This type of disregard for the laws just contributes to people coming here and illegally and think it is okay that they are breaking the laws doing it.

Cutting back funding would help solve this problem. Cutting off the flow of money seems to have a way of helping things just work themselves out. America is nearing its breaking point and hospitality quota.

Illegal immigration is a crisis that needs to be solved. Legal immigration is one of the foundations of this country. The law needs to be followed and enforced. I'm glad Romney understands the importance of this issue and has ideas fix it. It's better than Giuliani's silly fence idea.

This coming from a guy running ads in Spanish.