Basically what you have just become is the little kid in the story you posted who closed the blinds. You don't like what you're reading so you throw up your hands and leave, in a very real sense closing your blinds to other points of view. This country is full of individuals each with their own voice.

The "mess" in Somalia was a civil war not unlike what we are seeing today in Iraq. U.S. troops were sent to Somalia as part of a U.N. effort to stabilize a transitional government. Both the Somali factions involved in the conflict laid claim to the leadership of the county, a U.N. backed government and a group lead by Mohamed Farah Aideed, whom many believe won the national election but was denied his rightful office.

To blame the recent feudal outbreaks in Somalia on the fact U.N. troops were taken out during the Clinton Administration is short sighted. It could be argued just as easily that had U.N. peace keeping forces stayed in Somalia we would be as deeply intrenched in their civil war as we are in Iraq.

Taking sides in another country's civil war is a mistake taught by history. The French learned this lesson during the American Civil War. The United States should have learned this lesson from Vietnam.

More to the point, however, based on your views it would seem that you side in part with Ms. Clinton. She advocates a slow pull out of Iraq. She is not afraid to acknowledge gains made in Iraq, even though it flies in the face of all the democratic doomsayers. She did not say we should carry out a long protracted war in Iraq, as some posting here imply.

Even though I don't like Hillary's personality she shows maturity in her ability to step out of the democratic box and see things as they are. That is a trait our current leader does not have, nor do many of the candidates who are running for office.

You think we should pull our troops out of one civil war that we removed a dictator and put them into a civil war that is still controlled by a dictator.

Why? How long will you give Darfur before advocating running out on them too?? This is nothin but typical mindless dem anti-Iraq freedom rhetoric, I’m surprised CNN didn’t post it the first time either..

Those people who keep claiming that the Iraq war is unique and a critical fight for the sanctity of the West should probably go back and do some research about Iraq's past.

I agree that the surge is working, but only in the sense that it is keeping civilians secure for the time being. However, unless the Iraqi government can pull it together and get strong enough to enforce the security of it's own country, no amount of American presence in Iraq will ever change anything. I'm bracing myself for the moaning in February when the attacks pick back up and the casualties return to an all-time high in Iraq, despite the increased number of US troops over there.

There is no military victory in Iraq – it has to be a social and political one, jointly created by all occupants equally represented in the government. Which is not happening, and most likely will never happen. No matter how much we try to make it happen. Part of the problem with people who say that it's imperative that we stay there to fight the "terrorists" or the "insurgents" don't realize that the very people the US fights to save are the ones that turn around the next day and fight the US. They don't want peace – peace means stability, stability means cooperation, cooperation means equality. And none of the powers in Iraq want equality.

They want to fight the other until they are either dead, or their opponents are. Iran is just the arms dealer making money of the conflict.

As I have said many times before, there is not a military solution in Iraq but progress will only come from political reconciliation and compromise from the Iraqis themselves. Given that reality, the President’s escalation strategy is not succeeding.

Our military has performed magnificently in Iraq but ultimately the future of Iraq will be decided by the Iraqis themselves. Rather than continue an escalation policy that is not fostering political progress in Iraq, we need to send a message to Iraq's leaders that the lack of political progress is unacceptable. Our best hope of fostering political progress in Iraq is to begin the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops." - Hillary Clinton, 8/22/2007

Anyone who disagrees with that statement - including our President - truly does not understand the nature of this conflict.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ABSOLUTE BS REMARK!!

Why was my first post removed in response to the long-winded post by the armed forces personele? My comparison was clean, and did not contain any vulgarities. The truth hurts doesnt it? Yes, we helped put hussein in office. no the iraquis didnt want to be saved. yes they are complacent in their plight. and no there is no way to justify our presense there. and no, there is no excuse as to why we have remained innactive towards the genocide in Darfur. we rush to save the jews in world war two, yet we leave the black africans in sudan to die. thanks for making the rest of america look like racist hippocrites. CNN IS THE WORST AT CENSORSHIP. YOU REMOVE POSTS THAT CONFINE TO THE REGULATIONS BUT DISSAGREE WITH CNN GOVERNMENT AFFILIATIONS> WHAT A SHAM.

Apparently we have a difference of opinion on Hillary Clinton. I see her as a smart and pragmatic politician who has an excellent chance of winning the presidency. You see her as a conniving low-life who plots and schemes to inflict her same-old views on America. You want change. I want to win. I've noticed that bloggers everywhere who support Obama spend much of their comment attacking the front runner HRC, and less explaining why BHO will win and implement the changes you hope for. Message is great, winning is better. Ask John Kerry and all the rest of us who still walk around shaking our heads at Bush's 2004 victory. The trick to getting a Dem elected is to bring along some of the other side in a few key states, not to constantly preach to the Democratic choir. HRC is a fighter who can actually win. Obama can't win in a general election, however much pure progressives want it to be so. I am personally about as liberal as anyone I know and wanted Dean to be nominated in 2004, but I also see a danger in this country which goes beyond primary politics, so I support the candidate who has the best chance of surviving the GOP attack machine. I guess it really comes down to trust. I think HRC is one of the good guys. So is Obama, but Clinton can actually make some of her programs happen by winning. I don't have anything against Obama and don't write insulting blog comments about him. Dems get too caught up in primary politics when they spend 90% of their time attacking other Dems. Give it a rest.

That father/son story you read is an old chain letter that has been circulating the internet for quite a while. Because the individual who made the post decided to post a propaganda chain letter I can't help but wonder if person truly is a member of the armed forces. If he is then I thank him for his service. I would advise him, however, to avoid posting known propaganda because it discredits his own views.

Just my $.02

Thanks for your service. However you acted so much like Bush and Cheney. He hid the truth, doctored intelligence and made them look real. Obviously, it wasnt real but your son was angry at a perceived enemy. Like your son we got mad and went for the wrong person. What happens when your son goes out to fight, opens his eyes and finds out that the person out there didnt do what you said. Should he keep bashing him? Being a child he'll lose your trust and ask why questions. Unfortunately in the millitary orders are obeyed without questions.

First off, I think that the story Steven tells is a good one, and for what it's worth it was a good allegory for why we went to war in the first place.

HOWEVER...

Therefore, I think it is in our own best intrest if we slowly give more power to the Iraqi government and equally as slowly pull out.

From one vet to another (and not someone from California who says they would have served if called, and thinks Bill Clinton was heroic for being a draft dodger), THANK YOU for your service to the country and the very truthful portrayal of how it really IS.

Seeing as how your probabably ignorant of the Air Force military structure let me give you a quick lesson. CMSgt aka Chief Master Sargeant is the top of the food chain on the enlisted side of the house. You don't make Chief by licking someones shoes and doing what your told. You make Chief by being the best of the best and leading the way in bringing change and improvement in your field.

Then again most of the ignorant people who post here are also unaware of the fact that military members tend to have higher education levels then the general populace. Of course that study must be biased because the military are mindless zombies and you all said so right?

I find it somewhat sickening to know there are so many ignorant fools in this world who don't get the fact that evil in the world doesn't go away just because you ignore it or boycott it. The Iraqi people tried to rise up once without success and we stood idley by while Saddam Hussein slaughtered his own countrymen. But I guess that is pretty easy to forget when you can actually believe that people were much happier in Iraq when they had no say in the future course of their own country. Things are a mess now but at least the people of Iraq have a say in the course that their country takes no matter what that may be.

Triangulation works.

If it wasn't for "60's mentality rhetoric" we'd still be in Vietnam. Thank the heavens for the draftees who brought a balance to military service. Bring Back the Draft!

A U.S. Army Veteran
Military Intelligence

Yea, Tom I get it – Hillary is a full fledged side stepping politician and chances are we will never know where she really stands on anything. It's the same old stuff this country has been run into the ground on and you are not only lapping it up – you want more of it. You must be kidding me... ? The Clintons are master programmers and I would suggest that if you have loved the same old for the last twenty years
keep electing those same old dynasties.
OLD,OLD,OLD the same old swan song, I hope!
I am interested in the creativity and energy and courage of the Obamas.

Try something new for a change, Tom
you will be happier and invigorated!
Go with the most intelligent guy in the room as they say! Let the Clintons have
power over someone else – Live a little.

You're apparently effective at following orders. Probably best to let more qualified folks make decisions.

Thank you for your service. Freedom isn't free and you are a hero for volunteering to protect all of us.

I actually agree with you that it appears that Hillary will get the nomination. I don't think I'm clairvoyant enough, though, to predict who will get the support of the 'failed' candidates! It could be anyone of the others. My point was that the 'high-road' stance by the Clintons will most likely change when the 'other' starts catching up. Perhaps you are correct that Hillary's numbers will remain high (or higher). But as they say "one never knows, do one"!

For those who bristle at the negativity on the ticker, I say that "candidate bashing" is as American as apple-pie and has been the norm for over 200 years so don't expect it to stop now! One poignant observation is that many do it simply because they CAN without ramification. Truly, it's one of the most visible expressions of the freedoms guaranteed to all of us!

One final thought on Steven R Chandler's story of his "son's" response of closing the blinds to the evil in the 'neighborhood'. Very thought-provoking. However, many Americans are wondering why the "blinds" have been shut to other peoples in the world, namely those in Dafur and other African countries whose citizens have endured genocide and evil for years – SOMEBODY's been closing the blinds to their suffering and we wonder why. If the committment to fight evil is the sole reason for war, then the committment to send troops should be uniform! Not practical since we can't stretch our Armed Forces anymore than they already can. We just would like the 'bull' "reasons" to stop! Could it be that America doesn't feel there's any real "interest" in helping them due no (or little) oil is there? I'm proud of your service and would support you no matter what. It is not the brave soldiers who make the policy. ANYONE who denigrates you is not deserving of living withing these borders.

Raymond

You'll find no support or change any minds here in this media. Your service and story confuses most here, its seen as "propaganda". But thankfully, the silent majority will stand with you and not run so easily.

Hmm last time I checked people were free to raise their children as they chose. Calling it brainwashing because they are trying to instill their values in him? Yeah, youre really fit to comment on that.

And as for brainwashing, what hes telling his child is no worse than the brainwashing that is going on in America's colleges these days. For the record im not repeating talking points on that one, Im currently a Senior, and Ive experienced four years of a liberal arts school, and trust me, professors love nothing more than spouting their 60's mentality rhetoric.

Also, regarding Sgt. Chandler's story, simply repeating illogical lines of thought does not make something true, and I am saddened that the propganda apparatus in the military is apparently even more pervasive than the US media.

When I say this, I am not slamming you or our men at arms. Far from it. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the men and women in our armed forces. However, while that may have been our original purpose for coming in, I think that the story needs a bit of an addition.

"The children crying in the street were releived when the brave neighbors finally came to their aid. They were finally safe from their violent father.

However, the eldest son and favorite child of the father soon turned on his siblings. He wanted the whole estate and didn't think he should have to share with his siblings. Even though the neighbors said they should all share, the eldest would never concede to it. Even though all of the children had an equal claim to the house, the eldest wanted it all to himself. They tried to make all of the siblings live under the same house, but the eldest would frequently play nasty tricks on his siblings while they tried to set the affairs of the household. He had some of his hooligan friends come and try to scare his siblings. He would even play nasty tricks on the neighbors who had took away his father. However, the younger siblings had the majority and tried to fight their older brother for control. Thus the torn family continued to fight, dragging the neighborhood into their squabble.

Some of the neighbors got hurt. While they were watching the drama unfolding at the neighbors, they forgot about their own kids. Their kids stopped going to school and were getting sick. Their houses were starting to need repairs. They needed to do all of this, but couldn't because they were still trying to help the squabbling siblings."

I think our hearts were in the right place at the begining of the war, but now we've come to a point where something needs to change on their end before anything can be done. Also, due to the massive budget the war requres we have neglected our national problems such as a lack-luster school system and a need for a revamped healthcare system. I'm not against the war, but it sure has become a thorn in our sides. We should really be concentrating on our own country's problams and trying to fix them rather than worrying about our neighbors at this point.

He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son....what do you do?"

"Dad?"
"What do you do son?"
"I'd call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?"

"Dad.......... but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."
"Daddy...he kills them?"
"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"
"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"Daddy..."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?" Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers,
"I'd close the blinds, Daddy."
My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him. "Why?"
"Because Daddy .... the police are supposed to help people who needs them ... and they won't help .... You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself Daddy ..... I can't look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things and...and.....do nothing ... so .... I'm just going to close the blinds .... so I can't see what he's doing ........ and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."
I start to cry. My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husband's questions and he says...

"Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door... "WHAT DO YOU DO?"
My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"
I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his chest and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way.
You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before its too late." my husband whispers. THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq . When good men stand by and let evil happen son, THAT is the greatest atrocities in the world won't affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS..."

Steven R Chandler, CMSgt
332 ELRS/Vehicle Management
Flight Balad Air Base , Iraq

Get a grip, Bush supporters. Celebrate this tiny positive, but try not to lose sight of the fact that you and your Boy-King are still 99% wrong.

And try to keep that in mind, Hillary.

Same ole politics different face and gender.

WE NEED CHANGE!

This mess in Iraq was created and engineered by the Bush administration and nothing anyone can say will ever change that. Perhaps Hillary was trying to pander to the VFW. It's what a lot of politicians seem to do all too often these days. Whether or not the surge works is irrelevant, because we cannot win this war. We have already strengthened Al Qaeda and Iran with our folly in Iraq. We need to find a way to get out of this mess without creating any more havoc. The current Iraqi government is not strong enough to survive. We can try to prop it up all we want, but there is no way it can possibly deal with the chaos and the sectarian violence.

Democrats don't have to be afraid of anything working in Iraq, because nothing is working right now. If we could just get ourselves out of there, maybe the Iraqis could deal with this themselves. We invaded a sovereign nation that presented no national security threat to us and did not participate in any way in the attack on 9/11. They will despise us as long as we are there and with good reason.

Hillary Clinton likes to walk a fine line at times and play the consummate politician. Bill was much better at it. It doesn't matter what she says, the simple truth is that we have to get out of Iraq, period. I don't think the other Democratic candidates need to jump all over her and make a mountain out of a molehill. It was one sentence, it's over. Now let's move on to the real issues at hand.

I must say that Hillary's need to find the middle ground and appeal to the most constituents is one of her least attractive attributes. But it's not anything new, it's who she is. We still have to decide if she is the best candidate that the Democratic party can put forth to win back the White House in 2008.

Hopefully the Iraqi people will put enough pressure on the government so that they stop acting like a bunch of thugs and criminals and start working for the Iraqi people. Unfortunately they have our government as a model so corruption is guaranteed to exist in some form.

Posted By Jonathan, Pittsburgh, PA : August 22, 2007 12:09 pm

Hear, Hear!!!! I agree with you, it's not about having a conversation on the issues but rather as a forum to bash whichever candidate people don't like for whatever reasons.

What's wrong with what she said if it happens to be the truth? How is that seen as pandering? So, a senator who has sat for several years in the Armed Services Committee should cover up or distort information so as to not upset her "base"???

Jesus, this is getting awful. The title shows that you are clearly defending her even if she seems in the wrong. Her sudden flip-flop isn't the news, it's the fact that others are attacking her for it.

Hillary is a big girl CNN, she shouldn't have to need your help.

Raymond,

Good point, except, who do you think will be getting the support of the drop -outs?

Biden and Dodd's supporters will go to Clinton. Richardson, who has a good shot at the #2 position on the ticket, will swing his supporters over to the Front-runner. The only place Senator Obama could hope to pick up support is from Edwards, and if Clinton is over 50% in the polls (and she will be) and Senator Obama is below 25% (and he will be) Senator Clinton will most likely receive his endorsement, and most of his supporters. I would venture to say that those Senator Clinton supporters will be even more, "smug", when she takes the nomination on the first ballot, and she will.

Van

Let's remember the TET Offensive people. Militarily it was a success, but the enemy just retrenched and kept up the fight because the communist support in Vietnam was still high."

Tony, the Tet offensive was not an American operation. The enemy didn't 'retrench', they actually conducted the Tet Offensive.

The Tet offensive was a military failure, but was a turning point in the war because our media began reporting negatively afterward, which caused great political unrest here at home.

Have a good day,

Chip