I'm a liberal. I don't feel compelled to prove who I support or not I recall an old saying: "the more he professed his honesty, the faster we counted the silverware." It certainly applies to those who claim that patriotism is a lemming-like commitment to identical beliefs.

I've been around military personnel for half my life.. I've seen plenty of idiots and dishonorable people in uniform. And plenty more who weren't.

Petraeus was selected to command because he remained in a dwindling group of generals who believed the war – or more correct, the Occupation – could be won. So his role is more about cheerleading than taking an active part in battle.

Criticizing him is criticizing one troop, not all. Moveon.org may be guilty of a gaffe in their choice of words, but their gaffe didn't cause hundreds of thousands of people to die. And the people attacking MoveOn studiously avoid critique of the greater evil.

You'd think they were partisans or something by the way they defend their daddies. And being for a quick end to the occupation is neither extreme nor cruel. It's the majority opinion, held by realists.

WHY BELIEVE PETRAEUS NOW?

Apparently the names Richard Reid, Jose Padilla, Ahmed Ressam, Assem Hammoud, James Elshafay, Shahawar Matin Siraj, Dhiren Barot, and Iyman Faris don't mean anything to you?

That statement right there should preclude you from any further participation in this or any other discussion on current events. If you really believe that statement I truly hope you aren't responsible for anyone else's safety, such as a wife or children.

Here's a link you might find interesting, except you're a liberal so facts mean nothing. But I'm willing to try anyway.

http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_153193902.html

I think you better read your own words a bit more slowly. The numbers represent how the different parties feel about congress as a whole...which means they are giving 21% to Republicans and Democrats. Both parties are frustrated with congress's inability to get anything done. Democrats in particular are frustrated with us still being in Iraq. So, your numbers cannot represent Democrats; other than they are the ones giving the numbers to congress of 21%.

Also, you cannot compare this number to Bush's 32%; as that is the country as a whole giving that number. If you assessed just the Democrats in this statistical analysis, it would be much lower than 21%.

Just wanted to clear up your statistical analysis.

It's always entertaining to see Bush-bashers simplifying history to fit their Johnny Cochran mantra approach to everything "Bush Lied – Soldier Died" or we "invaded" Iraq only because of WMDs or Saddam caused 9/11.

Why we removed Saddam from power:

1. Multiple sources (Germany, France, Russia, Bill Clinton, etc) suggested Saddam had WMDs.

2. WE (the US) gave Saddam WMDs years before.

3. MOST Important: 11 UN Resolutions passed calling for Saddam to comply with inspections, dismantling weapons programs, compensating Kuwait for losses, etc. Saddam over a decade toyed with UN inpsectors and refused to fully comply with resolutions.

4. The call for Saddam's removal included Leaders from: England, Australia, and Spain. Support for removing Saddam included: US, UK, Austalia, Poland, Denmark, South Korea, Romania, Georgia, El Salvador, Czech Republic, Azerjaijan, Latvia, Mongolia, Albania, Lithuania, Aremenia, Boznia, Estonia, Macedonia, Kazakhstan, Moldovia, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Italy, ukraine, Netherleands, Japan, Thailand, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Hungary, Nicaragua, Singapore, Norway, Portugal, New Zealand, Philippines, Tonga, Iceland.

You state that;

"First, Democrats are not getting lower numbers than Bush – stop listening to Rush and Sean tell you what you want to hear. The Congress as a whole is getting the low numbers. Last time I checked it had just become a slight Democratic majority."

I got the following from galluppoll.com Dated Aug 21,2007

"Frustration with Congress spans the political spectrum. There are only minor (but not statistically meaningful) differences in the approval ratings Democrats (21%), Republicans (18%), and independents (17%) give to Congress. Typically, partisans view Congress much more positively when their party is in control of the institution, so the fact that Democrats' ratings are not materially better than Republicans' is notable.

The nine-point drop in Congress' job approval rating from last month to this month has come exclusively from Democrats and independents, with Democrats' ratings dropping 11 points (from 32% to 21%) and independents' ratings dropping 13 points (from 30% to 17%). Republicans' 18% approval rating is unchanged from last month. "

From the same source "Currently, 32% of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing as president"

Of course, you can probably go out to myriad web sites and find numbers that agree with your ideology, but the last time I checked, 32 > 21.

Not a sheep you say? Bzzzt, wrong! Straight from the 9/11 Commission Report: "The memo found no 'compelling case' that Iraq had either planned or perpetrated the attacks." AND "Finally, the memo said, there was no confirmed reporting on Saddam cooperating with Bin Ladin on unconventional weapons."

You keep on believing those lies perpetuated by the supporters of the war. Or should I say, "baaaaa"?

And, shame on you to play the partisan politics game. Your neo-conservative ways are not that of a true conservative. All through history, it has been the conservatives that pull us out of the wars, not get us into wars.

Do you support the elimination of the bureaucratic Dept. of Homeland Security? I do–it is still being put in place after billions of dollars spent–we had all of the information to prevent 9/11 before this Dept. was even put in place. How about the Dept. of Education? I do–education has only gone downhill since it was established in 1980–yes, we didn't have a Dept. of Ed. before 1980. Do you support the abolishment of the IRS? I do–if we reduce our spending levels to that of 2000 levels, an IRS wouldn't be necessary. Do you support the elimination of the Federal Reserve? I do–the inflation tax is thievery, plain and simple, and I do not appreciate people making decisions about my money behind closed doors without facing ANY audits.

So, Scott, I fail to see how I blindly follow the dems. Maybe it's you, supporting the big spending, ever-bloating deficit that our (un-conservative) foreign policy is producing who is truly the dem. Nice try with the partisan politics, though.

Oh, and next time you plan on mentioning something that Dubya tells ya, because you seem to place him on a pedestal, do some research first (i.e. Iraq and 9/11), but then again, that's not a sheep's job. Or, should I say parrot?

Only a sick person would agree with moveon.org's portrayal of this man.

And for Mark in TX, your complete ignorance of world events and naivity about terrorism is truly remarkable. For starters, it is a global war on terror and I've met many people sympathetic w/ these extremists (AKA terrorists)...they actually do want to dominate the world w/ Islam, specifically the Sharia version (most restricted). Let's see if the victims from Spain, Great Britain, Germany, Bali, and even Egypt would agree with you inane assessments.
BTW, neither Dems or Repubs are exclusively to blame for Bin Laden's success...keep in mind Bill Clinton had the opportunity to take out Bin Laden several years back following the 1st WTC, African Embassy & USS Cole attacks (I guess those were all lies too, huh?). We had exact intelligence on Bin Laden's location in Afghanistan and despite his own NSA, SecDef and the military's recommendation, he waffled on the decision to take him out w/ a Tomahawk. By the time he gave the go-ahead, Bin Laden was 3 hrs gone and the Tomahawk missed him. Not only did Clinton miss him, but he raised & cemented Bin Laden's reputation as an Islamic leader & prophet, as many Muslims believed he must be blessed to have avoided certain oblivion.

Posted By spinstopper : September 10, 2007 4:40 pm

add to the list Max Cleland, Jim Webb,
John Murtha and one of their own, John McCain. The Republicans don't hesitate to smear anyone to further their agenda. Since when is "killing" the criteria for being a war hero? And by the way that is one more kill than our chicken in chief had.

Moveon.org is an anti-American orgaization funded by outside interests looking to alter the US elections to their benefit.

If you can't see the difference, stop drinking the kool-aid..

John Kerry, American war hero? HAHAHA What a joke!!
His only kill was a wounded Vitnamese soldier, that from his own testimony..

Technically Tony Snow IS the White House spokesman until the 16th. He only announced last week he was leaving. His last day is this Sunday.

Posted By spinstopper : September 10, 2007 1:24 pm

Kind of like what Swift Boat Veterans, the Republican party and Fox News did to John Kerry..
different pea, same pod

Why is Nancy Pelosi being shut up lately, anyway?

Posted By David P., Denver, Co. : September 10, 2007 3:05 pm

Weak, David P., VERY weak. But, if you're going to make a ficticious connection between the Dems, Bin Laden (where IS he these days? Do you think Bush knows? Oh, that's right, he doesn't THINK about him) and Iran I can make a TRUTHFUL connection between a certain Repub and terrorists ... The Royal House of Bush and the Royal House of Saud ... proof is in the puddin' sparky.

Posted By Scott Malensek, Akron, Ohio : September 10, 2007 3:15 pm

I think we need visual evidence of a democratic candidate taking campaign money for moveonpac. btw that is public information now. (thanks barack)

The congressional approval rating is for both the democrats and republicans.
If it were in fact. the democrats congress the troops would be home with their families and America would be minding its own business of being the greatest county on earth.

As an Army veteran and one who has lead men and been lead, I don't know of a single officer or NCO that does not take their job deadly seriously in a time of war and would be willing to compromise the welfare and integrity of their force for political considerations. I'm sure those sorts people are out there, but I never met one. I don't think general petraeus is that sort of soldier and there has never been anything in his background (that I am aware of) that would cause him to check his professionalism, honor and objectivity at the door for political reasons. What would be his motive...he's already a general (4 stars). This guy is the real deal and doing one of the most difficult jobs imaginable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus

I think the moveon.org folks have burned a bridge with many of us middle of the road folks. It reminds me of another character assassination.
_________________________
Mr. Welch: And if I did, I beg your pardon. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator.

Senator McCarthy: Let's, let's –

Mr. Welch: You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?

Get my point?

This ad is reprehensible and I'm glad everyone has responded in the manner they have.

This certainly doesn't help the Democrats cause at the moment.

Why is Nancy Pelosi being shut up lately, anyway?

Posted By David P., Denver, Co. : September 10, 2007 3:05 pm

David:

BOO! Got your plastic sheeting and duct tape ready to go?

I'm not a practicing Dem but I find your post is weak. VERY weak. However, if you want to link politicians to terrorists don't forget how close the House of Bush and the House of Saud are sparky and there is AMPLE evidence to prove this, unlike your pitiful LIE re: bin Laden and the Dems ... by the by, where IS Osama bin Looooooooooooooonnnng Gone? Bush doesn't think much about him anymore?

#2 Petraeus and Crocker are granting an exclusive interview to Fox news. Anyone claiming that they are anything but lapdogs and yes men for the Bush administration are either liars or naive to the point of brain death.

Outrageous... Character assassination of decorated war veterans is a time-honored Republican tradition! Does Representative Boehner honestly think we've already forgotten the assassination of a war heroe's (specifically, John Kerry) character by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" and draft-dodging Cheyney and Bush? Where was Representative Boehner's indignation then? A citizenry that elects morons like Boehner is why I left Ohio, and why I am loathe to return.

By the way, before some apologist for this pathetic administration tries to label me: I served 10 years in the Navy until I was discharged with a medical disability... I have friends that are still overseas trying to straighten this mess out. Don't even DREAM about labeling me "unpatriotic". I am behind the troops 100 percent, but I'm NOT behind the morally corrupt cowards who are deploying them. If you are, wake up!

Oh please. This has got to be biggest piece of crap I've ever heard in my life. Only the dimmest of bulbs would seriously believe this. I am a left-leaning Democrat, and I never have– and never will– say anything bad about the war– in AFGHANISTAN.

The war in Iraq, on the other hand, has been PROVEN to have been based on lies and that the president and his staff KNEW they were lies. Instead of bring Al-Qeada (the real enemy) to their knees, hey are stronger than ever. Iraq is a rallying point for them. Arecruitment ad. Iraq, while a disaster for us and the Iraqi civilian population, is the best thing that ever happened to Al-Qeada. Bin Laden's crew would be history now if we had kept our eye on the ball and taken care of the real threat instead of diverting our attention on GWB's personal vendetta against Saddam Hussein.

It's just more absurd Republican mud-slinging to say that A Democrat won't protect this country from attack.

A Democrat lead us through WW2. A Democrat wisely lead us through the Bay of Pigs. I shudder to think what GWB would have done in that same situation.

Democrats serve this country, Democrats love this country, and Democrats will protect this country.

Why is Nancy Pelosi being shut up lately, anyway?