Rudy is right about all these points. When has Hillary Clinton been to Iraq to somehow get a better idea of what's going on there than the commanding general? And I agree with one of the posts above, MoveOn.org spends millions upon millions of dollars on attack ads which promote the dem agenda. That counts as contributing to them, not just the amount of money they donate to dem presidential candidates. Rudy Giuliani's common sense and ability to call it like it is makes him the right candidate for the next president. Posted By Dan (Baltimore, MD) : September 12, 2007 9:59 pm

When has Hillary been to Iraq? She's been to Iraq and Afghanistan several times along with her "favorite traveling companion" Sen. McCain and also Sen. Graham.

When I first became aware of the moveon.org ad, I thought it was offensive, unnecessary and even counter-productive to it's own goals (which I heartily agree with).

Upon further contemplation I've done a 180. Thank you to those radical heroes who have the guts to stand up to the Bush catastrophe and its insideous global implications.

Considering the temper of the times, which is controlled by inflexible ideology, their modus operandi is hardly unusual.

If it wasn't for the "radicals" of the '60s we'd still be in Vietnam.

Whatayagonna do? Wait for the Democratic congress to stand tall?

NYT "Betray US"

According to the director of public relations for the Times, "the open rate for an ad of that size and type is $181,692.

A spokesman for MoveOn.org confirmed that they had paid only $65,000 for the ad - a reduction of more than $116,000 from the stated rate.

A call to the Times advertising department gets a quoted a price of $167,000 for a full-page black-and-white ad on a Monday.

NYT declines to confirm the price and refuses to offer any reasons why they would give a hate originated liberal attack group such a discounted price. Speculation is that its a "family discount".

I wonder if Hillary is getting the same family discount from that other old gray lady..

Posted By Ray, Rochester : September 12, 2007 7:23 pm

———————————–

Weak and pitiful post. Yeah, the ONLY reason the FDNY is against this tool is because they're union. I'd pay to see you say that to a NY fireman's face just to see your reaction when he or she rams their fist down your throat.

Rudy is nothing more than another Bush … "lets play dress-up and pretend I'm president". The only difference is that Rudy has a better command of the English language.

Remember folks, to question your government is now considered un-American.
This is what the Petraeus backers/Bush backers/war supporters would all like you to believe.
Truth be damned, objectivity be damned, neutrality be damned. Bush appointed this guy to toe the administration line, and if you don't like what he has to report, you can GET OUT! GO JOIN THE 'SIDE' OF THE TERR'ISTS, FREEDOM-HATER!
Unreal. I can think of nothing more "un-American" that expressing these kinds of idiotic ideas. Giuliani and anyone who supports him on this needs to re-take a few elementary school government lessons.

For those of you accusing Fox of being just like MoveOn.org, the big difference is that please note the following: (1) George Soros is a hypocite who made billions in hedge funds, betting on massive capital fluctuations in international investment flow, but now espouses some form of one-world governmnet (no, I'm not crazy, he is, he has stated this) to regualte such behavior; (2) Ruppert Murdoch (for better or worse) is a businessman who noted taht there was pent-up demand for a news outlet that did not spew slanted, left-leaning, opinion, spin, and editorial (remember how often Dan Rather stated he was delievering "context and perspective"–try the text first Dan…oh, wait, skipping that got you forced out)in the guise of news as disseminated by the big three networks and the NY Times (which more often than not, was the copy for the "hardworking" network newsies).

In other words, the "news consumers" out there wanted something different, it worked, and he made money on the proposition. And, for a few years, it prompted the mainstream media to ttry to balance-out their coverage because the coverage of Fox News frequently revealed how biased their coverages truly were. But now, all we here is more or less "Iraq, bad, Republicans, bad, Britney bad, Paris, bad, Lindsey bad." And sadly, the last three seem to dominate even Fox News as well (yes an equal opportunity criticism). Again, please refer to what I alluded to earlier, please just report the facts and the news–we could learn a lot more about our world and each other if CNN and the other news outlets would report more, opine less, and not cover the same 2 stores over and over.

Hey Rudy! This is the pot calling, you're black! What a hypocrit!

Hillary made the best argument as a future commander chief of this country. It shows she has vision and willingness to work with both side and also hear people's voice.
Go Hill!

Rudy is not in a position to criticize any Politician given his failings.
He should clean off his own door step first.

Of course it's normal political stategy for the candidates on the bottom rung to attack those on the top.

If this report was so important, why wasn't the General sworn in?

Giuliani knows nothing about foreign policy, international and federal politics.

He is an one-issue man: 9/11. Being the mayor of the vitimized city, new york, he is given millions of campaign funds, with which he pays his friends and companies. For example, see his huge Italian bodyguards around him.

On foreign policy, he is a yes man of Bush, and has no original ideas.

The good General Powell, oops, I mean Petreus, would never tell a lie, nor mislead the American people into (more) war!

I don't like MoveOn, but this is a supposedly free country. If they had the funds to pay for the ad and could find a newspaper that would run it, they have a right to express their opinion. Everyone else has the right to be offended. As wise people used to say, "Consider the source."

Rudy is wearing out his 9/11 moment in the sun. It's all he has in his bag of tricks.

Americans won't be fooled. Rudy is a fraud. Mercifully, his own party will sink him.

I would not vote for Rudy if move.org supported him! I've been a republican all my adult live and this group of republicans are disgusting. I hope and I pray a majority of Americans feel the sameway.

The moral and upright Rudy has spoken. Let all within the sound of his voice fall to thier knees and divorce thier wives for a young, hot, chick, IOIYAR( It's OK if You're a Republican).

Seriously people, if you thing Petraeus wasn't being a mouthpiece for the president, show all of us where they are in disagreement. There really is no point of conflict between anything he said to congress and anything Bush has ever said.

The people on the right might dismiss the Daily Show for liberal propaganda, they can't, however, argue with the indisputable lowering of the definition of success, in which Bush has been engaged. This was highlighted in a montage of his "banner" moments across the history of this war, in which the mark for success was eventually lowered to "fewer car bombings and suicide bombings."

We weren't told in the onset that we'd be successful when there were less of those, or else we might've considered the regional unrest we've created. There have been 6,098 seriously wounded and 3,776 dead American soldiers in this war, according to icasualties.org. That's far more than the numbers of the dead on September 11th, which along with supposed weapons of mass destruction were our only motivation to go into Iraq in the first place.

I'm sorry if we do not trust an administration that has never once genuinely owned up to any it's catastrophic and embarrassing shortcomings, all in the name of political bitterness. Americans wouldn't be so bitter if there was an ounce of acceptance with regard to the failings of the Bush administration, of which there is a laundry list.

Oh, this is rich.

Giulliani, the sleaziest, 9-11 exploiting-est, crap bomb of a candidate, faking outrage over Move On's dead accurate portrait of Gen. Paetreus, Bush apologist and only the latest and most partisan Bush appointee in the war on Iraq.

Nice try, Rudy, you stupid putz. Whaddya say about the Swift Boat Weenies for Character Assassination? Did that "outrage" you as well?

Go home to momma. What a puke.

Why is so hard to fathom that General Petraeus would potentially be untruthful in his testimony on Iraq? GWB and the entire administration was untruthful from the get go!!

This add is shameful and wrong. If you want to question what someone says then do it in the right way. This General regardless of what he sai has done great things for the soldiers on the ground in Iraq. He gets little time to make big decisions then politicians and the public get years and years to tear it apart. I would love to put every last person who has spoken out about this in Gen. Petraeus' shoes for a day and see how well you'd do. It's all well and good to speak your mind, just make sure you know what you're talking about. Also, if you can't do the job he does you have no right to bash him. When you can lead 130,000 troops in a war-torn country where half the population hates us and the other half doesn't even care about their own well-being, then you can criticeise the job Gen. Petraeus is doing. Until then support this man and our troops. Notice I didn't say anything about President Bush or the war. Just our troops. weither you agree with the war or not the fact remains the troops are fighting for your right to complain and speak your mind.

Why does someone as delirious and scewed as Rudy think that he would make a good president? He needs to stop fighting for the worst president in the USA history and drop out of the race. It is a waste of everone's time. Note to Republicans-get a better candidate or risk being associated with RG as your figure head.

irrespective of the swift boat issue, John Kerry showed his "war hero" credentials with his "study hard or go to Iraq" speech. War heroes, by default, respect the military. John Kerry does not.

To call a four star general essentially a liar, like Senator Clinton did, is not only a disgrace for herself but also for the Democratic party. It was disgusting to listen to her comments over the report that General Petraeus gave in truthfullness. Her actions as well as others that spoke out from the Democratic party are deplorable and should be remembered during next years elections.

I think the failure of the Democratic candidates to really condemn that, given how much money Moveon.org spends on behalf of Democratic candidates, which is millions if not hundreds of millions, is really, I really think it’s very, very unfortunate," he said Different than the $108,000.00 the author points out in DIredct Contributions

MOVEON.ORG please do something. You are one of 2 evils. 1 you are a republican corpate discuised as a democrat supporter, or 2 you a buch of druged out high school drop out retards. The dung you put out will not effect the hard core democrat voters or the hard core republican voter. The voters that pushes elected officails to win the election is middle amercia. with you labeling the us miltary as tratiors to united states it will outrage all of middle america. but luckly most of em will ignore it. But there a chunk that will go to vote who would origanly vote for democrat will vote for republicans because of your dung. do you read the news. You have given republicans fire and a place solid to stand on. All the hard work and money you donated is no where near enuf to un due the dung you did. Please go on TV and plead for an appoligy that you did not ment to discredit the miltary or the General. General Petraeus like all the miltary have sworn to a service where we have to obey the president. We can not disobey him the military is not a democracy. If the miltary disobey orders you get labled as a traitor and courtmartiled and kick out of the military. Genral Petraues been there. e sweat with the miltary in Iraq. He saw the injured and dead americans that gave there life for thier country and upholding the pleadge to serve the united states and president.WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN BESIDE YOUR AC HOMES AND PLEASANT JOBS. General Petraeus has his stomic full and guilt of the war. But he cant not speak his mind. after he retires you will like the rest of the generals bash on bush. But while there in uniform they cant. READ THE UCMJ and about what officers are allowed to say on politics. READ the enlistment contracs we sign when we join the miltary. READ our promotion orders when we get promoted to our new rank. THEN you understand why no democrats or america and even lots of the far left is not coming to your side. In Fact you have betrayed the democrats. You need to say we sorry and disband the org and start a new one. so a chunk of middle america dont go running to the poll and vote republican becuse of the dung you put out. remember it not the far left you need to convince to vote democrat it middle america you need to convince.

Lets get real.

Bush keeps insisting he only listens to his military but kept firing ("retiring") generals from even before Iraq started to now if they didn't tell him what he wanted to hear,

He found another general at the end of last year that tells him what he wants to hear, to delay and ptolong the war to end of his term and then "awaits" his "report" as if all the other reports don't matter, only this one does.

The report was pre-ordained, the result (more delay and pass the buck to the next administration while men die for NOTHING but politics) was known ahead of time. The price of the general's job is to do what Bush wants. There are no secrets here.

The disgusting part the continued meat grinder and waste of good American lives while Karl Rove style political gamesmanship is played out in an effort to save Bush's "face" and maybe help republicans running in '08.

Republicans are just mad and don't know what to do for the mess that the republican president did. I'm independent by the way.

Actually Mr. Ghouliani, two of the most disgusting things in American politics are Karl Rove getting George Bush appointed president and your parties reliance on fear to manipulate the ignorant.

Democrats won control of Congress last year on a promise to end the war in Iraq. They are no closer to achieving that nearly a year later. The electorate are frustrated with their ineptitude and the Democrats know this. Hence it is only natural for the Democrats to summon General Petraeus to Washington, not to assess progress but to use the General to try to shore up their disillusioned constituency. This "show trial" was obvious once Reid and company started attacking Petraeus before he had even appeared and opened his mouth.

Go MoveOn Go…..Get Rude next ….

Now making beau coup bucks off of 9-11;that's real classy Rudy. Typical Republican hypocracy.

What's the complaint. Slinging mud is a Republican art form.

Go GO RUDY!!!
I have seen this Picture Before. The Vietnam WAR! ..Most of the followers of Moveon.org and commenting here are too young to Really know What happened in this country when the Democrats truned against " OUR TROOPS" and called them Baby Killers(Kerry and gang) and were Acting like they are today. They had their Candidate for President defeated and Still have not RECOVERED! Once again they are Replaying the old Game.
Americans Do NOT take kindly to ATTACKS like this and regard the Troops, as our Sons,Daughters,Fathers,Moms,Uncles and Aunts, Neighbors and Friends. The voters will not Forgive the Dem's (AGAIN)……it's now in cement!!!!

THANK YOU…Moveon.org for Jumping The SHARK!

For the record the Firefighters in NY who are the most anti-Rudy did not support Kerry in 2004 unlike the national union. They endorsed…Bush who is a a Republican so the meme that of course they hate Rudy cause they are Democrats does not hold water.

As for unions as a whole there are plenty that are not Democrat centrist–carpenters, teamsters, and even in NY healthcare workers.

someone nudged my foot under the bathroom stall at the airport in new orleans and asked me if i thought it was ironical that republicans can gripe about ethics and morals.

Rudy is right about all these points. When has Hillary Clinton been to Iraq to somehow get a better idea of what's going on there than the commanding general? And I agree with one of the posts above, MoveOn.org spends millions upon millions of dollars on attack ads which promote the dem agenda. That counts as contributing to them, not just the amount of money they donate to dem presidential candidates. Rudy Giuliani's common sense and ability to call it like it is makes him the right candidate for the next president.

To "BeReasonable":

There is bumper sticker I love that says, "If you are not angry, you are not paying attention!" I say to you, wake up and pay attention.

The democrats found no holes? Really? How about when General Petraeus was asked if this war and this surge was helping make the United States safer. Do you recall his answer? He said that the surge is helping our efforts in Iraq…stumbling through a very short sentence. When asked again if it was helping make the United states safer, his reply was, "I don't know."

He came with a well written speech that left out a lot….the really bad stuff. How many insurgents were killed last week? Don't worry, I know the answer, zero. How many U.S. troops? I know this answer, too, 28. Petraeus' well written speech speech was nothing but spin to ask the U.S. to just give it more time. I say no more of this!

I am more than positive that he was given a stern warning as to how this speech should sound. Bush fired several generals who spoke out negatively on the war. Petraeus is well aware of this and did not need to be told twice how his speech should sound.

Wake up people!!

Once again Hillary has questioned the honesty of a person that has spent his entire life serving his country. It's silly to think that she knows more about the events on the ground in Iraq than the general. He is admired by all who serve under him….She really needs to tone down her harsh comments.

Where were all of these Republicans who find ads like this disgusting when the SwiftBoat ads were questioning Kerry's service to his country and loyalty toward our troops? Those ads were outright lies! Politicians are so hypocritical it disgusts me!

Nice smoke screen from the Ghoul. This blurb from my local Republican paper is all that needs to be considered: "A visibly heated Sen. John Warner, R-Va., asked Petraeus whether his proposal on Iraq would make America safer. Petraeus replied: 'Sir, I don't know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted that out in my mind. What I have focused on and riveted on is how to accomplish the mission of the multinational force in Iraq.'”

Hillary is disgusting

The ad was sophomoric.

Rudy's reaction was typically Republican - an attack.

I thought better of MoveOn.

I wasn't surprised by Rudy's reaction.

Yet again, Republicans have a never ending ability to invent new excuses for outrage. In this case, that excuse would be
"accusing a general of a willing suspension of disbelief." Had he been a colonel that would have been one thing, but a general? That's going too far.

After watching the senate and the congress this week. I can think of 535 great reasons for term limits.

I personally think Giuliani is disgusting after having an affair on his wife, while attesting to having conservative right-wing "Christian" values. Move-On.org seems to be a thorn in the side of the right wingers and as a member, I am quite happy about that. If this were Hitler's Germany, perhaps they could throw us all in prison as opposition to the "state"…that is, George W. Bush's "State". However, this is America and we want change. No apology needed nor given!

I think I found something a little more disgusting: When Rudy filed for divorce in 1999, he had "$2500″ total. During this campaign, per finance laws, he revealed that he has over $30 million.

Now THAT's disgusting.

Hillary continues to make questionable decisions and I think this should convince voters that she is utterly lacking in any ability to make good decisions as president of the US.

Accusing Petraeus of not being competent to run the military after supporting his appointment is just another instance of flip-flopping in order to score political points with the liberal Democrats. She supported the Iraq action then changed when it suited her political interests.

This combined with her recent campaign finance scandal will do nothing but help the Republican candidate in portraying her as a poor leader.

Obviously, the actual political venom is Giuliani's. How else can one characterized a presentation that was obviously politically scripted before the general set foot on Capitol Hill?

I have one liberal friend, he could of written every single anti-Bush, anti- war post written on these pages or in the entire blogosphere, your rants are carbon copies of each other. This proves you are incapable of thinking for yourselves. I have wondered for sometime why I have met so few of the so called majority of Americans who think like you and have come to the conclusion that you are probably the minority in reality, it's only that this minority never stops running it mouth repeating the same mantra. I know that you will never change your positions or even consider any other position because your minds are closed. Small minds think alike and assume they know all.

>I agree Mr. Giuliani's criticizing.
Senate Democrats are making another mistake same as General MacArthur had been fired by them during Korean War.
If they listened to General MacArthur's opinion at the time, North Korea Regime could not exist for now.

>Posted By H. Shim, Tustin, California

MacArthur wanted to drop atomic bombs all over China ferchrisssakes!! Are you insane?

In a time when our armed forces need our support the most, we have sites like moveon and some political candidates bring down thier will. We all want our troops to come home as soon as possible, but not before it is the right time. What people don't think about is that we will lose more troops and maybe more citizens if Iraq isn't stable. How many years did it take the United States to get where we are now. It took our FOUNDING FATHERS from 1781 to 1787 to write our Constitution, but we expect another country to write thiers with in a couple of years, and they have many more problems. This war has had an unbelieveable low number of deaths than any other war in United States history, even though just one life lost is to much, but compare it to those lives lost on 9-11 or the possibe deaths that could be caused by radical religous groups that will pop up if we fail in Iraq. It is a shame that some of our countrys possible new leaders and groups like moveon use the war in Iraq to bring down the will of our soliders for thier on selfish intrest "to beat thier opponents". The self serving groups like moveon and bad political candidates will be the down fall of this country.

Perhaps somebody should point out to Da Mayor that using the tradgedy of 9/11 for years to bolster his carreer is disgusting.

What goes around comes around. I guess Rudy forgot about the "Swift Boat" ads that slandered John Kerry. I don't remember him criticizing them.

Republicans are crazy. Keep praying you're going to need a miracle.

GO HILLARY!
She is going to win and if you don't like it move to Iraq.

"..the Republican White House hopeful called the ad "one of the more disgusting things that has happened in American politics,""

the swiftboat debacle comes to mind as far more disgusting…Giuliani and the Republicans sure are good at whining when their own political hatchet tactics are turned on them…

As for the General…everyone knows what his marching orders are..support the failed Bush agenda..and i agree with Clinton that believing the generals "report" requires "a willing suspension of disbelief."

Have all the righteously outraged Republicans forgotten what their ads did to Senator Max McClellan, or the "Swift-boating" of senator Kerry, just to name a couple? For venom, those ads had no equal . Their true hatefulness makes the MoveOn ad seem like a love song. It would serve them well to remember that when you do unto others, sooner or later, someone will do unto you. So stop crying, Rudy et al., and Move On. There are real issues to be taken care of.

If you want the truth on Guiliani… read the books "Grand Illusion, The Untold Story of Rudy Guiliani" by Wayne Barett; and The Emperor of New York by Andrew Kirtzman.

The city of New York was under such dictatorship that we New Yorkers were anxious for him to depart. Teachers,police,firemen disliked him, gays, organized labor, unions, Amadu Dialo, Abner Luima…need I say more? He has no merit.

I'm assuming R. Giuliani was also quick to condemn the Swift Boat ads depicting Kerry as anything but a hero as well. What a hypocrite…as are all the Republicans that are screaming at the tops of their voices right now. Was the ad appropriate? No, but it only has as much power as individuals assign to it. This is just Giuliani et al jockeying for support and political points. MoveOn should be disappointed for giving him and people like him a rallying cry. Petraeus the soldier should never come into question. Petraeus the potential tool of this regime should always be questioned. It's not about the man, but rather about how the man, whether knowingly or not, is and has been used.

John from "Cally", you weren't in Vietnam with those Swiftboat VETERANS and John Kerry, all of them were just as decorated and many were more decorated than he and they were there a lot longer than Kerry was.

They are the only people that know the REAL truth and if Kerry was so sure that they were all lies he would have went after them immediately, like any rational person would have.

He didn't fully release his records for years and again we don't know what was in them, but that does put up a flag.

Many of these guys hated his guts for his treasonous personal attacks when he came home and they never will forgive him.

And Moveon does have the resources and the clout to enable the Democratic party, I love it when they spew their hateful lies as it makes them look like fools. Free speech for Moveon.

While the MoveOn.org ad wasn't exactly the best way for the organization to express themselves, let's keep in mind that they present a point of view that potentially 53% of the country feels: that General Petraeus was not in the position to give us a completely objective report, and that the White House is using him for their benefit.

I believe that Petraeus is a good military leader. However, his testimony is besides the point when it comes to the war simply because the fundamental problems in Iraq cannot be solved through military means.

As was said by someone else on these forums, what happens if things calm down and we leave in a couple of years, and then someone blows up a mosque and it all starts up again? Are we going to re-invade?

Truly, the point of this discussion has a lot more to do with the overall point of the war, not just the military tactics being employed.

Oh I see. It's not okay to call a lying General lying on behalf of a lying President a traitor. However, it is okay to refer to all those who disagree with the war as traitors, just as the Republicans did in 2004 and continue to do. Reality is on the dems' side in both cases.

Right on Rudy! Continue the fight! Hillary is a hypocrite and a manipulator. You will kick her **s in a head to head contest.

We're behind you!

Oh yeah, to those of you who bring up the NYC firefighters being anti-Rudy…well of course they are. They're a union and we all know unions love Democrats.

Where was his condemnation of the Republican attack machine during the last handful of elections? If the right wing can sling mud, so can the left.

Funny, I feel quite differently after visiting therealrudy.org Maybe folks should check it out. I don't think Rudy has the right to criticize ANYONE. I think I'd vote for Britney Spears of him at this point

I'm honestly appalled at this new standard of low. What Moveon.org did can be compared to those that spit on our Soldiers after their return from Vietnam. Shame on them!

Let's see. Rudy and McCain better be careful here. I think if they go to far with this they are going to be percieved by the general public as to the right of George Bush on this war. I don't think they should attack Hillary too much when she is the one who has the same opinion of the war as most of the electorate.

I agree Mr. Giuliani's criticizing.
Senate Democrats are making another mistake same as General MacArthur had been fired by them during Korean War.
If they listened to General MacArthur's opinion at the time, North Korea Regime could not exist for now.

Sen. Clinton would have served the inquiry much better had she refrained from the sideswipe that was quoted, the "willing suspension of disbelief" remark and her seemingly ironic 'commendation' of Petraeus for the positive aspects of his testimony. This indeed looks like grandstanding. None of this is going to look very honorable from the perspective of history.

How about the left will drop Move On if the right drops Fox News.

That's what Rudolph finds disgusting?

http://theprogressivepost.blogspot.com/2007/09/thats-what-rudolph-finds-disgusting.html

For the record, the $108,000 doesn't include the millions spent by MoveOn.Org on advertisements that mirror or advance the Democrat's agenda. Those millions are the one's Giuliani referred too.

Hey B. Carnahan, so for people to contribute their money to an organization that promotes a political issue is now called a "Scam" eh? It's called "Activism". People putting their money together to get their word out that they dislike what this Administration is doing in their name.

Other words that should ring out as "scams" should be… corporate lobbyists, Swiftboat, Fox News …

—

The problem with Giuliani is that Hillary was right to point out that the general has tunnel vision when it comes to the mission in Iraq. He isn't considering that his Commander-in-Chief is an idiot and telling him the truth that this president bungled the whole affair. And that what Bush wants ain't going to happen. The land once called Mesopotamia has been in a constant state of war for thousands of years. You think some two-bit texan and his four star general are going to keep Sunni and Shia from tearing into each other from now on? If you do, then I got some swamp land to sell you.

Telling it like I see it,
Wynter

B. Carnahan ~ "And remember, and please report correctly, that the organization is esentially a shell/front (a 301c, I beleive) for multi-billionaire George Soros to push his petulant policitical whims. And this is established fact, wish I would you report."

Sure glad ol' Rupert would never use his front for that purpose.

Liberal Media
Bill Clinton
George Soros
Media Matters
Moveon.org

The five republican talking points when they have nothing smart to say (pretty much all the time).

While MoveOn's ad was premature and not well thought out, it seems that the general's comments echo the administration so closely as to raise serious question of their veracity. His assumption that Iraq is the most critical factor for battling terrorism is something that this administration has been repeating constantly, the argument has the same rational basis as going after Saddam's WMDs. Al Qaida would not have been there had we not attacked Iraq in the first place, and the suggestion that Iraq represents the best potential operating base for Al Qaida to attack us here in the US is a theory not well thought out at best. Pakistan is known to have training camps and Taliban operate there with little repercussion. While chaos in Iraq would potentially provide some haven for terrorists, it's likely that the Shiite influence would eventually dominate, and al Qaida would not be welcome there for long. The bottom line, Moveon's ad plays into the hands of individuals like Giuliani, who use the opportunity to distract from the real issues.

Whichever mainstream democrat returns his campaing money from moveon.org will be the first one I will support for the nomination.

In one week, democrats and hillary clinton have done so much self destruction. Moveon.org's ad is so disturbing and democrats are waiting for this newscycle to end. It is really hurting them bad and also hurting america's image. For the first time, hillary clinton's campaign is struggling to control the message. Chinese donor stopped all the momentum for the clinton. Guilliani and other republicans are taking advantage of it.

So Rudy did not have the amounts right nor was he correct in saying that Senator Clinton could not critize Petraus in light of the MoveOn ad. This is one of the reasons why a friend of mine once told Hillary when Rudy was running against her for Senate not to ever be afraid of punching a bully in his nose

Giuliani is right on this one. Moveon.org should be ashamed. I cannot believe anyone would participate with such a group.

ThirstJon
freedomthirst.com

Giuliani has no foreign policy experience. He skipped the entire 9/11 commission briefing to go on high paid speaking engagements.

And since when is harsh questioning by a Senate panal a bad thing? Would Giuliani rather we go back to the days when Senators questioned nothing? When they signed off powers to the President and allowed America to get into a war as a first resort instead of a last?

The scariest thing about Giuliani is that he thinks foreign policy and "keeping America safer" are his strong points. The next scariest thing is that some people may believe it.

He may not make the first primary, the egoist. Freddie's here, and he's your worst nightmare Rudy. I'd start thinking about the lecture circuit if you know what's good for you. You couldn't even get re-elected to the only office you ever held, let alone PRESIDENT! Get Real Rudy!

What is Guiliani's position with the introduction of the Global Poverty Act into Congress? What about Clinton's? When will politicians set aside the petty name calling and dissenting and address real issues?

I don't know why the Democratic Senators bothered to ask General Patraeus to show up at all. They weren't interested in his answers, only in creating a forum to allow them to state their opinions. They could have done all that without having the General there.

The Democrats who own the Fire Fighter Union are the only NYC Fire Fighters who oppose Giuliani. Normal do not.

I'm just wondering why CNN is not covering at all the fact Hillary keeps taking hundred of thousands of dollars from wanted criminals and only gives the money back after she is caught.

Like Rudy or not, like Hillary or not, he is correct. I watched her at the hearing on C-SPAN. She opened with a nice salutory comment about how she appreciates their integrity and knows they are in the unenviable position of reporting on failed policy blah, blah, blah…and ends the opening statement basically saying 'but you're liars!'

C'mon, Hill, if you're gonna go after 'em and "fight 'em" like you've been fightin' those crazy right wingers for 15 years, don't pull the punches. Be genuine for once!

Happy Wednesday

ghoulilani is disgusting exploiting 9/11 for all he can get

BeReasonable….put down the crack pipe.

Did you happen to notice how many well-respected Republicans were skeptical of Patraues's BS??? Of course not, you were busy gazing at your poster of W.

Actually, the MoveOn ad proved prescient. Unfortunate, indeed.

Here is the report for the next year and a half of Iraq:
BUSH: We'll measure the progress in March next year (2008) then we'll know more about the situation in Iraq.
DEMOCRATS: OK, but we'll ony fund you until March of 2008.
March comes and the report is ready:
BETRAY-US: There have been some gains made, but we'll have a better picture of the progress in September (2008)
BUSH: We'll measure the progress in September (2008) then we'll know more about the situation in Iraq.
DEMOCRATS: OK, but we'll ony fund you until September of 2008.
………TEN YEARS LATER……….
The story repeats itself….

Why did this guy dump–or was dumped by–two other wifes again? Does he have an issue with women?

I am a Democrat and I absolutely condemn MoveOn.org for their thoughtless ad against the General. He is a respectable man with great credentials.

Oh but it was OK when Kerry was swift boated. Where was the Rupublican uproar there?

No Rudy is the one with the willing suspension of disbelief,he's a devout thrice married and drag queen catholic that has a foundation for disgraced pedophile priests.Is this the "moral values" guy? How many gay ex-priests would end up working in our government?

Rotten Rudy talking about dirty politics, the man who has misused and abused the tragedy of 911. The man who made money (big money) of the tragedy of 911. The man who has NOTHING to run on except the photo-ops of him during 911. Getting upset at Hilary about an ad she had nothing to do with (moveon.org are not very big suporters of Hilary). Maybe she should appologize for what happened to Larry Craig too, or Jimmy Hoffa. Oh please, I wish Rudy would just take his dirty money and go live somewhere away on a farm, so we dont ever have to see his "Nosferatu" mug again.

One of the most DISGUSTING things that has happened in american politics is the BUSH PRESIDENCY.

this is an ad… get the heck over sheesh

Anyone who watches the Faux News channel would see similar wording of headlines on the bottoms of their television screens. They take what would be an otherwise libelous remark and add a question mark at the end. Faux does it to attack Democrats and liberals, so no Republican or conservative has raised a fuss before about such headlines. Now, in a single instance where one of their own is the focus of such a headline, suddenly it's the end of the world and the fault of the entire left. How about we get the Republicans denounce Faux news every day, since that's how often Faux news broadcasts such headlines. Or maybe they could just let this one go.

The reason MoveOn.org took the lead in trashing the General du jour is that Congressional leadership is too timid to do it, and lacks the votes to force action until they peel off more GOP moderates. The drawdown was already in the plans for a military stretched to the max, and return to pre-Surge levels is actually "staying the course". Stay tuned.

Haha Rudy lecturing Hillary. PLEASE! This is the same guy who capitalizes on the tragic attacks of 9/11. The same guy who was the indirect if not direct cause of hundreds of deaths NYC Firefighters. The same guy who made money off of 9/11 is giving a lecture about statesmanship?! HAHAHA PLEASE!

The ONLY people I've heard condemn the ad are -Republican politicians-. No one else seemed to care… no one. And that "no one" includes the VAST majority of Americans who do not think Petreaus would be or is honest about how the war is going.

"Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani Wednesday sharply criticized the MoveOn.org newspaper ad attacking Gen. David Petraeus, calling it 'one of the more disgusting things that has happened in American politics.'"

Does he really think that anyone buys this hyperbole or is he really that ignorant of history, including very recent history?

Judy, Judy, Judy,

Where was your outrage when the RNC went after War Hero Max Clelland, where was your outrage at the swiftboat liars, where was your outrage when Bush questioned John McCain's patriotism?

You are a phony and America knows it!

I really cannot believe that leaders in the Democratic party just sit and take this talk — nor that Republicans have the gall to ask Democrats to condemn it.

First, we all have within our recent past and incredibly well-documented example of a prominent general misleading the American people (whether knowingly or not) about an incredibly important military action (General Powell's testimony to the UN has cost more than 3000 American lives and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi ones). By any reasonable account, his testimony was DEAD WRONG, and I think we all wish someone had called him on it.

Second, if Democrats must condemn an ad questioning the intentions of a general, then Republicans must be equally responsible to condemn every TV, radio, and print commentary (think O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin) that has questioned the patriotism of leading democratic lawmakers (saying they WANT U.S. military defeats). These people are not only not condemned, they are accepted as MAINSTREAM members of the Republican establishment. In fact, Mr. Giuliani, Bush, Cheney et al. have cast similar aspertions — and they are the leaders (not some fringe advocacy group). And what about the Swiftboat Veterans vicious attacks against the integrity of a standing U.S. Senator? Where was Giuliani's outrage then?

Why do democrats let them get away with this nonsense?

Listen to the "swiftboater wanna-be" calling the "kettle black". Rudy will as many other pundits such as himself feel the searing burn of voter discust with his "double-dealing", "holier than thou", character deficient, special interest funds accepting self! By the way, what ever happened to that corruption investigation involving his ties to his former police commish?

I've seen and read the ad. Can someone please explain to me why the Right is so upset and obsessed with the ad? It states well known facts and even has their sources sited. It just happens to express a valid viewpoint (and I would even go as far as to declare it an objective truth) about the status of the Iraq war and General Petraeus' current role in that war. If any of you think that just because a man wears a military uniform that he is somehow now beyond reproach and untouchable, especially career four-star generals, then you are beyond my understanding and sympathy. Four-star generals are nothing but political creatures, and the only reason why Petraeus was chosen for his current position is because he is a political ally and now tool of the Bush Crime Family. The ad was, factual and contained the brutal honesty of speaking to the truth which the Republicans loathe and fear and the spineless Democrats cannot muster the fortitude to say for themselves. Personally, I intend on permanently leaving my homeland and watching from afar the self-destruction of this once great nation by the Fascist NeoCon Right, their lazy, ignorant, and xenophobic sycophants, and the impotent and dishonorable Democrats. For those of you who do not have the means or will to escape, you made your bed, now go sleep in it.

When are Rudy and Hillary going to take the troops up on their 360 offer to tour in Iraq? Can either of them walk the beat in the heat??

Petraeus was honest in his deposition to Congress which for the Democratic candidates was unheard of, honesty that is. Sure they are going to attack him because it blows a hole in one of their main platforms. They tried to find fault in his testimony and found none. So they let these side organizations do their dirty work for them. Shame on them and they should distance themselves from these attack organizations or lose any credibility.
One thing that stuck out in my mind was the attitude of the Senators and Congress to make a political statement instead of asking questions. Plus if they are so concerned with his testimony, why did they leave after their time was up? Don't say the will read the transcripts later, they will only read the recaps supplied by someone else. If they are wanting to find a solution to the war they should have stayed for the entire testimony to glean as much information as they can to make the best decision they can. That unfortunately didn't seem to be their agenda.
Petraeus only reported the facts as he sees them without any input from the White House. They were not all sunshine but they did offer some rays shining through clouds that surround the war in Iraq. Good job and kudos to the men and women of our Military and Diplomatic Corps who are striving to make the world a better place to live in for all.

"For the record, Moveon.org supporters have contributed over $108,000 to Democratic presidential candidates this year through the group’s political action committee, according to Federal Election Commission records. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, led his party’s field in contributions received through Moveon.org, with just over $30,000 since the start of his campaign."

Giuliani stated "…how much money Moveon.org spends on behalf of Democratic candidates…", not contributed to. That is MoveOn.org's whole scam, whereby the spend milliions on "issue ads" and support of other organizations advcating liberal issues. And remember, and please report correctly, that the organization is esentially a shell/front (a 301c, I beleive) for multi-billionaire George Soros to push his petulant policitical whims. And this is established fact, wish I would you report.

P.S. On another note, tell jack Cafferty to get of his high-horse with his opinions and just report the news. No one really knew of him a few years ago until CNN started marketing him as though he was some well respected jounrlaist a la Cronkite or Brinkley. It sort of reminds me of the MSNBC Ashley Banfield fiasco. How hard is it to just report the facts without opinion and spin–the general public does not need to be treated stupidly by the media.

New York firefighters refer to Guiliani as "disgusting" too, for what he did to them agfter 9/11.

Guiliani has done far more disgusting things to the heroes of 9/11 than any television advertisement could ever do.

Emergency service personnel and military servicemembers overwhelmingly support Ron Paul for 2008. You should too.

The ad is nothing compared the the 'Swift-Boat' liars ads in 2006!

If only MoveOn.Org had "hundreds of millions" of dollars to contribute to the Democratic campaign then the Democrats would be able to keep up with the corporate Republic party and their front groups.

Wow, Rudy a demagogue say it isn't so.

What people like Giuliani and the rabid GOP partisans always seek to do is to mouth "freedom" "liberty" and "individual choice" anytime they like but are often hostile to others who live by those American philosophy.Hypocrites heal thyselves!!Although I may not and do not agree with the MoveOn ideas but i bet they do have all the right within the American Constitution to express their views.Shame on you all that seek to limit every citizen's right of speech..

You ain't see nothing yet.. Just wait until all those other advocacy groups, from both sides, join in on the hate spewing these dems have been doing for the last three years. Its going to get real disgusting. And only then will we hear from the liberal dems in pitiful Congress about how shocked they by the politics of hate. Oh dismay..(yep, eye rolling)

Well, well, Giuliani attacking Hillary. What a surprise! So he too thinks she's going to be the Democratic nominee?

Eh Rudy, the NYC firefighters are looking for you and it's not exactly to cheer you on…..