Moveon.com has bought and paid for:
Hillary Clinton Barack Obama
John Edwards etc, etc.
Democrats scared to stand up to
scum-bags like Move-on.com

DO WE WANT THAT SLIME AS PRESIDENT???

So now he is against freedom of speech. Or is it that he only is against those who oppose his view?

The gloves came off long ago and the RNC took them off first.

Image caption: "Giuliani said Clinton, MovOn.org, and the New York Times should apologize 'for what the did.'"

Has anyone noticed the high rate of spelling and grammatical errors CNN commits on image captions? In general? Hire someone who knows how to spell, CNN

Every time I look at his face I thought of his unsightly smirk in the Fox debate, when Dr. Ron Paul was answering the question.

Oh Really? Hillary has nothing to apologize for she didn't create the ad. The New York Times also ran the lies of the Swift Vote Vets against Kerry. When Rudy & the Republicans apologize and disassociate themselves from everything that comes out of the mouth of Limbaugh, Ann et al mouths and the smear ad's they run, then will talk.

“Hillary Clinton, The New York Times, MoveOn.org should apologize for what they did,”.

Nice spin. Makes it sound like Senator Clinton's campaign was involved in the ad. Unfortunately for Giuliani, they didn't have anything to do with it. She has enough sense to know the difference between asking tough questions and character assassination.

To paraphrase another senator from those hearings (the bulk of which I watched): it's not unpatriotic to ask if the tactics we're using are the best possible, to ask if the lives and money we're sacrificing are worth it.

No senator's questions are unpatriotic. But I would argue that nicknaming General Patraeus "General Betray Us" is. MoveOn.org, whom I generally support, should be ashamed.

Mr. Giuliani needs to learn to cope with the fact that we're allowed to criticize the President, his policies, and even the military leadership of this country when we believe it's justified.

And he doesn't get to decide when we believe it's justified.

Where were you Rudy when the Swift Boaters were savaging Senator Kerrey's good name and service record? Giving your Republican friends high-fives no doubt.

Of course back then, all Republicans disavowed any connection with the Swift Boat people. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.

Now, of course, almost every single Republican maintains that all Democrats are connected with MoveOn.org and MUST appologize.

It's that typical GOP double-standard/hypocrisy again folks.

Republicans should stop criticizing Democrats for speaking their minds. That is what political discourse is all about. We NEED to hear what the candidates think. This is a free country — isn't it? One can say whatever one wants, right? Or is that right also gone?

According to Abbe Serphos, director of public relations for the Times, “the open rate for an ad of that size and type is $181,692.”

A spokesman for MoveOn.org confirmed to The Post that the liberal activist group had paid only $65,000 for the ad - a reduction of more than $116,000 from the stated rate.

A Post reporter who called the Times advertising department yesterday without identifying himself was quoted a price of $167,000 for a full-page black-and-white ad on a Monday…

http://edgruberman.wordpress.com

All Republican comments should be ignored period! They don't have a clue and they live in their own little fantasy world. GO DEMOCRATS 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This from a guy who was running around like a chicken with his head cut off on 9/11 because the command center that he demanded (against tons of good advice from experts) be put in WTC was out of commission. Now he runs his whole campaign on what was really his incompetence on 9/11. He shouldn't run for President, maybe he should lead FEMA and maybe build the FEMA offices on a boat made of sticks out in the Bermuda Triangle. That's rudy for ya! http://www.therealrudy.org

Ed,

Your comment means what? Repeat/volumecustomers get better rates.

bprossersme,

Thanks for reinforcing my statement!

And yeah, had the General said anything but what the "W" Administration told him to, he would have been retired……….such is our system, like it or not!

Rudy Giuliani is polite and well mannered, seems to be a problem for supporters of the liberal Democratic viewpoint. Rudy understands the difference between "debate" and "character assassination".
I will attempt to translate what Mayor Giuliani said into liberal-speak:

To Hillary, MoveON.org, and the many many others trying to make political hay out of a bad situation in IRAQ: given the choice you present, believing that either you, or Gen. Petraeus is a scum sucking liar … I think your the liar!
Correct me if I'm wrong, Gen. Petraeus is not running for office anywhere is he?

While it is true Hillary Clinton did not call the General a liar, she did say "the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief". What do you expect from someone whose command of the English language allows them to say something like: “A lot of those lobbyists, whether you like it or not, represent real Americans, they actually do,” (Hillary Clinton, August 4th 2007, Kos convention)

Give it a rest, Republicans.

The ad isn't that bad, and it makes something of a point. We are stuck in a religious conflict that dates back around 1400 years and that we're not going to solve anytime soon.

Rudy has no more credability than the other party members which amounts to Zero Credability and Zero Tolerance.

Rudy also has no Leadership experience which he proved to New Yorkers and all Americans as the result of his failures as Mayor during 9/11.

Rudy also hasn't much to boast about where morals are concerned, given his marriage failures and Father figure.

Rudy also hasn't any degree of humility which was exposed to the public by his blantant statement giving himself the same level of praise and credit during 9/11 as the Firefighters and Emergency Crews!

Rudy has no Political Savy or Experience which he has made more than clear as a Mayor and currently as a Presidential Candidate.

Rudy hasn't many admirable qualities given he is seen by the majority as a Bush Clone.

In short, Rudy shouldn't be throwing stones given he lives in a glass house. As Fall is here and it will be getting very drafty at Rudy's place.

If I was Rudy I'd try to listen more, say less, and hope nobody hears me.

Giuliani accuses Clinton of character assassination. How ironic:

http://news.aol.com/elections-blog/2007/09/13/giuliani-blows/

Again, it unfortunate that the Democrats have to take their cues from Radicals such as moveon.org. Instead of standing up to character assasinations like this ad, all of the dems just skirt the issue. Their complancancy in this issue is trully telling. Its unfortunate that it is not the Democratic party of Rosevelt and President Kennedy (one of the good Kennedys). They would have never stood for anyone doing this to a General. More and more it looks like the moveon.orgs and George Soros are now calling the shots for the democratic party.

Its one thing to critize President Bush's polocies, but to blantely call General Patraese a liar and everthing esle is wrong. If anyone can't see that then they are stupid. Here's a guy who has served our country faithfully for over 30 years and here comes this bunch of scumbags belittling him.

Are you aware that Moveon is also going after that right-wing nutbag journalist Katie Couric because when she showed the seeds to report over in Iraq last week, she was TOO POSITIVE!!!

They are hammering her for telling the TRUTH, even though those gutless bastards were not there, she was.

I proudly volunteered and served this country to preserve the right to free speech and I can't ask any stronger, PLEASE KEEP TALKING MOVEON, you are helping my party.

Democrats are getting heat for this because they won't condemn it when their republican counterparts will. You see how this has become an issue? Of course they don't have to appologize for things that they didn't create but neither do republicans and they are condemning it. When your counterpart is doing something you are not it raises questions to why you are or are not doing something. If they thought this was so disgusting why won't they condemn it? I will lean heavily to voting for the first mainstream democrat who publically condemns the ad, not just b/c of their stance on this but b/c it shows they are willing to stand up to the powerful Georgo Soros money driven far-left that is slowly taking the democratic party captive. Come on Obama, make us proud!

It's hard to picture this bumbling fool as president.

Where was he when the SwiftLiars were savaging the Dems?

Rudy, you've milked the 9/11 thing dry - get out while you have a shred of credibility left.

Shame on MoveOn.org, the ad was un-called for, shame on Republicans for trying to associate this to the Democratic hopefuls… having said that, also double-shame to the Republicans in congress that dare not ask the tought questions in Iraq… I forgot they drank the kool-aid…

They paid the normal rate,this is a fictional murdoch propaganda item.The idiot candidates that repeat such lies such be held to account for it.The posters here who repeat it have some serious reading comprehension issues,it's right in the article!Read the facts before spewing faux news,this isn't fox.

We get it, Guiliani, Republicans don't like the ad…sheesh, cry me a freakin' river, Barbara! Surprisingly enough, this brings up an interesting issue. What's the difference between an "issue ad" and any other ad and why would the costs differ at all? The Times says it doesn't matter, the Post said they got quoted a different price…someone's lying or made a big mistake. Because the Post is a worthless fishwrap, I'll err on the side of the Times at the moment, but it could be interesting if there's something to this.

Apparently the right is still on this 'thing' to limit freedom of speech. Why in world would any sane person want another 4 to 8 years of crap which bushco has put us through?

Clinton,Obama, The Times…They are ALL afraid of This Group…. Move On???

The Questions we should be asking is WHY???

If they can't stand up to This Group…How can they LEAD THIS COUNTRY??
They all take orders from George Soros!

He MUST HAVE A BIG BLACK BOOK ON ALL OF THEM!!!
Very Interesting……..?

I heard Giuliani on CNN with Larry King and he mentioned 9/11 repeatedly. How long is he going to milk it? He also kept attacking Hillary, the only Democrat he mentioned by name several times. I just put FOX and there he is again now yacking it up with Hannity about how terrible Hillary's comments were and yada, yada about 9/11. Whatever……

Whatever happened to reporting facts and truth? There is not one place in any of the CNN blogs mentioning Ron Paul. Ron Paul is the only candidate that makes sense. Ron Paul has captured the interest of many of the young population. Not one of the Republican candidates were approached by the crowd like Ron Paul following the debate in New Hampshire. CNN…your polls are lies just like FOX. Giuliani is a sick choice to potentially lead this country. Propaganda only works so long. My vote is Ron Paul 2008!

I'm always amused when I see some Democrat claiming the Republicans "started it". "It" being the mudslinging, smear jobs and so forth.

I recall Reagan getting smeared fairly regularly…

And obviously, that wasn't even the first time.

Smear tactics and various other dirty tactics are par for the course. At this point, we should expect that sort of thing from MoveOn, Moore, Coulter and the Swift Boats Vets and the rest. We shouldn't expect it from NYT or any other "news" outlet (yes, including FOX).

a note to the republican bloggers, Me thinks thou do protest to much. The same rate would have been given to your swiftboat friends as they misstated Kerry's record and maligned his service and the same rate would have applied to Rove and his henchmen as they ran ads against McCian in 2000 claiming his mental imbalance from his years as a POW when he ran against Boy George. So which party REALLY dishonors veterans?

I am a Democrat and I personally found that the NY Times was biased. It made me embarrassed. No discounts, fair and equal time for all. We are not sheeple. We can make up our own minds. Don't give the GOP reason to bash the media as a "liberal" convoy.

Lis in Lawrence MA,

You are absolutely correct that we may criticize the President, his policies, and the military leadership. And each individual decides for themself when it is justified.

Just like I am completely justified in supporting my President, his policies and his leadership, military or otherwise.

Sometimes the rights we possess are best exercised by restraint on our part. I personally believe the anti war movement is damaging this country and putting our soldiers and citizens at risk.

Waaaaa Waaaaaaa Waaaaaa….
I think its time to burp Rudy and Fred and put them down for their naps. They are getting a bit cranky.

$65,000 for a full page ad in the NYTimes? That's hard to swallow.
But even so, the price for a Political ad is $167,000. I think this ad falls under that category, as moveon.org donates heavily to Hillary, Obama, and Edwards. Also, Rudy is not criticizing the three top democrats for the ad, he's criticizing them for not taking any action against one of their largest donators when they've done something wrong.

"I disagree with the message of those who are exercising the First Amendment right that generations of soldiers have sought to preserve for Americans. Some of it was just flat completely wrong and the rest is at least more than arguable."- R. Guliani

Did he REALLY just say that he wants to limit the first amendment?! Hey, I guess if it serves your cause, restrict ALL of our rights! Why not? Terrorism and safety have everyone's attention…

Petraeus would have been more credible without Bush's "surprise" visit to him days before the testimony. We are to believe that they didn't discuss the progress of the surge, nor what the General was to report? Sorry, we've seen too many lies out of this White House, and burned too many bridges. We may be a gullible people, but we are wising up fast. IMPEACH!

Last night I heard McCain say on Fox news that basically ads like this should not be allowed. Calls for restrictions on the first amendment have also been made by Gingrich and other major politicians. I hope you people wake up to what's going on.

This ad does not compare to the Swift Boats ad. John Kerry was a minor figure who was running for political office. The General is an acting official in direct service of his country, and he was being insulted and attacked by a political organization which, ultimately, has no real need to interact with the general. That a huge discount was offered by the NY Times proves a bias; that the ad was a childish name-calling only proves the lack of maturity of those on the left.

The NYTimes is private property. They can charge whatever they want for their space. Giuliani, another big government republican, apparently doesn't believe in private property. Additionally, he's a big ugly baby.

Shame on MoveOn.org. Military commanders/soldiers execute missions. General Petraeus is executing a mission supported by Congress, which has members from both parties. Some voted for War when it was politically convenient. I still have not heard the plan for Terrorism if a Dem becomes president.

"All Republican comments should be ignored period!"

Another liberal defense of free speech, I see.

As for the Swift Boaters:

1 - The "victim" of those attacks was a presidential candidate, commenter Liz says it well:

" … we're allowed to criticize the President, his policies, and even the military leadership of this country when we believe it's justified."

Ignoring the fact that Kerry wasn't a current member of the military, but the theme is the same. You run for, or hold political office, everything is fair game.

2 - Why didn't Kerry sign off on SF180 to release his military records (retracted from his campaign website, by the way) which would have stiffled the Swifties?

Oh, well … these comments (mine included) are a stark indication of the evaporation of decent political discourse. Those who yell the loudest, I guess, win.

It's so frustrating that the only way for Giuliani to get any press is when he is latching onto some "scandal" and never letting it die.

MoveOn.org had every right to print the ad as is guaranteed by the Constitution, and the New York Post had every right to run it. A candidate running for president ought to know the Bill of Rights. Not to mention, this whole thing wouldn't have gain half of the publicity it was seeking if Giuliani kept his mouth shut. Where are the issues? Giuliani should stop wasting his time attacking free speech and more time sharing with the American people his plans if elected president. Way to go Rudy–you show stopper you.

To Bill from IL and all others who see this as "hypocrisy", I ask where were you when swift boat was attacking Kerry? Were you defending their right to free speech? Because if not then you're a hypocrite too. My point is that the republicans don't have a monopoly on hypocrisy, its equally present on both sides of the aisle, and in all of us.

On another note, while I'm a liberal democrat and I don't support the war at all, I thought MoveOn.org's add was disappointing. It was inflammatory, factually deficient, and it defamed the honor of a man who I beleive is simply doing a good job at carrying out bad orders. I'm all for trying to end this war, but we shouldn't have to lie or use character assassination to do it. The truth alone should be convincing enough.

Whether or not moveon.org received a discount form the NY Times is irrelevant. The Times, as a privately owned newspaper, may extend discounts to whomever they choose. What is disgraceful is that an orginization that represents the left wing of the democratic party saw fit to publicly slander an honorable soldier. These are the same people who spit on returning servicemen from Viet Nam and who generally regard the military as war crimminals and fascists. I truly believe that president Bush, his incompetent noecon cronies, and the republican party in general have definitely taken us in the wrong direction. But everytime I begin to consider the democrats as an alternative they manage to remind me who they really are. Our troops will eventually come home from Iraq, and when they do it will not be to the insults, slander, lies, and moral posturing of left wing anti-americanism. This generation of soldiers will not be spit on, not if I have anything to say about it.

Most of the commenters are missing the basic point of the story. Is the NYT giving preferential treatment to this organization and does that cross the line of the third estate?

On this, I must disagree with MoveON, an organization I usually support in very strong terms.

The general is in a frighteneing position. Look at his boss. Look at who he has to answer to, then consider his need to balance his loyalty to a uniform, to a commander, and to the constitution. this man has been placed in an extremely awkward position.

I rank him as being used an abused just as Colin Powell was abused, and they are both honorable men.

MoveOn, you went to far this time. Aim your attack at the truly diseased individuals of this administration, not the General.

Posters are correct, people have the right to say what they want under our constitution. Also, people have the right to say moveon.org went way over the top with the criticism of General Petraeus (and Hillary calling him a lier). Now, the American people need to analyze what candidate qualifies to be President 2008.

Two clarifications from the article:

1. The general disagrees with the message not their right to spread it.

2. Giuliani, et al., disagree with the seeming discount rate not the fact they ran the ad.

Disagreement is fine, lack of reading comprehension is not.

At first I thought the MoveOn ad was premature, and therefore inappropriate. However, after hearing his testimony it's abundantly clear that Petraeus (the supposedly intelligent, ambitious and independently-minded general) is simply acting as a mouthpiece to prop up the Administration's viewpoint. In other words, he's just ambitious. Shame on him. I now agree with the ad and support it.

Only fools believe that The New York Times still provides an unbias news source..

Why is this biased reporting?

The article failed to mention that the ad rate that MoveOn paid to the New York Times was the standard rate for a non-profit and/or a charitable organization. Every private organization has the right to choose who gets these rates. Do all you complainers really believe that the right-leaning mega-corporate-owned organizations don't discount ads for views that reflect their own? How about all of the right-wing media that refused to even accept ads for liberal-viewpoint pieces during the last election? How about banning the Dixie Chicks - you all thought that was ok, right?

For those that disagree with the ad, have you tried reading the actual fact-based arguments presented by MoveOn? Have you read the analysis that was created by independent non-partisan groups on the progress in Iraq (of which there are links so you can read and decide for yourself)? Or, do you believe that the only study that is truthful is one created by the administration's hand-picked mouth-piece?

Part of being a real patriot in the sense of our founding fathers is to educate yourself, and think critically about what is really going on in the world. Blind loyalty to any party only makes you appear foolish.

Ask questions. Educate yourself.

http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html

I wonder if Hillary and Obama are getting the same "family discount" as MoveOn.org??

I can't believe moron.com — I mean rollover.com — I mean moveon.com still exists. They couldn't buy a viable candidate if their lives depended on it. haaaa

None of you know if Hillary was involved in the MoveOn.Org ad.

Gen. Petraeus is an honorable man and I believe he is doing the best he can in a difficult situation.

The fact that Hillary did not criticize the ad attack on Gen. Petraeus speaks volumes to me about her integrity. At least Kerry called the ad inappropraite.

In my opinion, this is just another example why she will never be Commander in Chief.

Not one of the Democrats running for President has demanded that moveon.org formally apologize. Any candidate who has any respect for the military would refuse any financial aid from moveon.org until such an apology has been made.

Giuliani is just angry because he can't negotiate(a good price in this case)….this makes me wonder how he's going to negotiate with other leaders if he's elected President. It's going to be G.W.Bush Part II.

Wow what a balanced forum. Cmon people take a step back look at the whole picture before you characterize these "Republicans"! If the right leaning NY Post ran a full pager trashing the Red Cross prior to a report on the humanitarian situation in Iraq…the Dems would to the EXACT SAME THING! This has nothing to do with Rudy et al, it's the process. Don't act like "your side" is somehow above the fray.

Puking at that notion as I type.

I don't understand how the Republicans think they can support Bush and the Iraq war and win the general election. What will they do? Flip flop once they have the nomination?

Seems to me that Guiliani would rather whine about ad rates than comment on David Petraeus' testimony and the implications that will have on our troops. He's avoiding the issue once again.

I wish CNN's ticker would tell the whole story, like how Guiliani's "challenge ad" was given the same lower rate as MoveOn because that's the standard Times rate for a "standby" ad. The rates which were reported by the New York Post were for a more expensive service than what MoveOn (and Guiliani) received.

Neither MoveOn nor Guiliani seem to have actually received a "discount."

Why is this even news, other than politicos wanting to snipe at each other in ever more juvenile ways?

Gee, Rudy, where were you when the Swift-boaters came around? Where was your outrage then Rudy? Oh, that's right … it wasn't POLITICALLY FEASIBLE for you … silly me! And Rudy, it appears you've purposely left one MINOR detail … NONE OF THE DEM CANDIDATES HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS AD! Tuck your sword back into your pants Rudy, it's not big enough to win against FREE SPEECH.

Once again, the odorous stench of GOP hypocrisy permeates the air … REFRESHING!

I love MoveOn.org….at least there is one organization out there willing to risk it all to get the truth out there!

I don't like G myself, but it is a shame if newspapers are giving their political viewpoints cheaper rates. That should be a crime really. It doesn't matter what you advertise, if you are going to screw over certain groups, that's discrimination baby.

Democrats are the biggest idiots on the planet. Grow up and realize that big and small business runs this country. Without them, we're nothing. Without them, you have no job and therefore no money. So go ahead and support your hand-holding, heavy government spending, taxation happy, welfare programs that don't work, socialist thinking DEMOCRATIC presidential candidates and see where it gets you. NOWHERE!

If I'm Clinton's campaign, I'm thanking my lucky stars and laughing all the way to the bank with way more than the 800k plus they lost in the Hsu scandal. It gives her more street cred with the MO and Kos people, won't cost her a VOTE in NYC, (Though maybe some elsewhere in the state, maybe not.) while attracting even more of the anti-war vote. It is a total win for her. The question is, why? Why would Rudy latch on to this almost non-issue, to take a hard stand?

He needs her HELP! He needs her as a foil he can attack to try to recapture the the supporters he's hemorrhaging to Fred, strengthen his street cred with the republican base, (and they hate Hillary even more than the people here) and taint her with the military, if he winds up running against her.
It's a bold,and in other ways a panic move, an attempt at a big lie that is like going for broke, as if he knows that the way Fred is trending, he could soon be third or FOURTH in the polls. Rudy is a front-runner, in more ways than one; If he falls behind Thompson (and it looks like he will) and feels that he isn't going to win, he could surprise everyone and drop out FAST. This could be his , "let it all hang out", round and if he doesn't score the knockout, he may quit on his stool.
He has to know that in the short run, he is much more certain of helping Hillary with this ad than he is himself, so this is in many ways also a tactical, long-range move. If the national publicity the ad is sure to garner helps him regain and maintain his lead and go on to win the republican nomination, he has set himself up for how he wants to run against ANY democrat, that he is strong and will protect you and the democrat won't.
My guy Edwards and Obama are both seen as easy to campaign against on the security issue (It's the only issue the republicans are still trusted on) for Rudy, but Clinton has been able to stake out some gravitas, in part because of being on the Armed Services Committee , so the ad sets him up to, "define", her as being anti-military.
If it works, he wins the nomination and has a perceived soft-spot to attack (If Clinton is his opponent). If it helps her, but he continues to deflate, he'll be like Wile E. Coyote, falling into the canyon with a bomb in his hand as the Road-Runner zips past, unharmed, "Beep-Beep", Rudy.

Open rate is a one-time ad rate. other rates depend on the frequency of the ad. pretty much every newspaper has community rates that are given to non-profits.

This man is the slime that wants to be president. When he was the mayor of NYC he did such great things? He arrested homeless people for being homeless! He destroyed the schools. He was so frightening to his children that they called 911 during a fight between him and his former wife. SHE had him thrown out of Gracey Mansion because of it. He made comments about her like… she was not going to leave after he was out of office. THIS IS THE MOTHER IF HIS CHILDREN! This man will do worse than Bish has. He is a tyrant. He does not allow free speech and fired teachers for voicing their opinions. He is a monster in my eyes. I will never vote for him… Hillary on the other hand is a decent human being. She has flaws. But, she is decent. He is not.

I'll take the word of a successful Mayor/US Attorney or highly decorated General before that of some inexperienced opportunist that is riding her husband's coattails.

Rudy,

You get free advertising on all the Murdoch publications, Washington Times, NY Post, Fox and all it's affiliates. Except for this soundbite moment - there is no "unfair" discount for an ad that is more "news" and truth than anything you'll find on the above mentioned publications that support the RNC right-wing PNAC agenda. I used to like you - you've become a "pod" person to the PNAC and a danger to not just NY, but America.

Why are Republicans fishing so hard for a cause to rally behind. This shows they are desperate and weak!

George W. Bush is great. The war is wonderful. Moveon.org is horrible. We need to return to basic morality. I would write more, but I have a prostitute here waiting to put my diapers on.

As usual, the Repubs get their numbers and facts wrong- is anyone surprised? I don't believe a thing that party or the Bush administration tells me.

Some have brought up "freedom of speech". Just FYI, paid advertising does not come under the constitutional protection of freedom of speech.

In any case, in the 'free market of ideas", all political statements are fair game to be challenged. Balanced and unemotional statements tend to "survive" challenge but in the current climate are more often ignored. Balanced dialogue does not move people in the same way as divisive and one-sided statements. Move On is doing what they all do in exploiting the known human weakness for inflammatory tactics.

Its funny how a lot the liberals out there making comments on this article try to defend freedom of speech. But you will be the first to spout off when someone makes a negative comment about your precious Hillary.

Maybe Giuliani should get Rupert Murdoch to re-establish Pravda, they could call it Fox News Light, and then he could totally control all of the advertisements. Problem solved.

4 years ago, our commander in chief delclared "Mission Accomplished", now a 4 star general says to us, "we are making slow progress on some fronts". In the meantime our brave military is a worn our group with extended tours and broken obsolete equipment costing America $12 million an hour to maintain the debacle. And the best Rudy can do is scold a democrat for questioning this policy? The integerity of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice is zero with Americans and the world. And the cold blooded murderer of 3000 Americans, bin Laden is still inciting the muslim world to kill even more Americans. We have every right to be angry at our commander in chief for his policy failures and pathetic leadership!

I believe in Rudy Giuliani, the Grinch, and Hannibal Lecter… all birds of a feather.

Senator Giuliani, why don't you go and ask your Wives to vote for you. Your only claim to fame is what happen 9/11. I also that you are not the right person to be a president. Soldiers die in Iraq, because of people like you who think you are doing the right, but you are not. When are you and President Bush going to let your Kids join the military to go to Iraq, I think you wouldn't because you don't want them to come in a body bagy.

If you feel that Gen Petraeus is giving a correct picture of Iraq, the how come Adm Falon who is Petraeus's boss has a total opposite views? I think Gen Petraeus is Bush's man and is giving a good spin to keep the troops in Iraq for another 20 years. Guliani when interviwed by Larry King was so pathetic that Obama and Edwards have totally outpaced him. This person is a joke and since he has nothing to argue about, he is taking the heat on Hillary and NY Times.

This isn't about Rudy, Clinton or Obama. Why is the New York Times giving discounts to liberal organizations like MoveOn.org and not all other organizations? I don't want the New York Times to apologize. I want them to finally admit that they're a liberal news publication, so that when people pick it up they know that what they're reading is a liberal derivative of the truth. Do we not require all other companies to disclose what ingedients their products contain? Why doesn't the NYT disclose the previous political affiliations of their writers, as the WSJ does with those who write about stocks/companies they have external relationships with. The NYT should either be objective or disclose it's proven liberal bias. We need checks and balances in the media. Also, why is this on the political ticker and not the front page as "Major U.S. Newspaper seeks to further liberal idiology in America".

I guess this is a liberal blog. For a second I though I was on moveon.org's website

Bill, from SC, you are so wrong to just blindly follow a president just because he is the president. this is not how our country was built. our founding fathers were rebels against their leaders. this is why the republicans go after the religous vote. religous people are used to just following with no justification of credibilty so it makes sense for them to follow a president only because he has the word "president" in front of his name. I dont understand how you cant question your leadership. these are the people leading you and they are humans!! hitler led people, nixon led people, saddam led people, Kim Jong leads people today….osama binLaden leads people. we have to understand question leadership might be uncomfortbale, but its the challenges that push people to a higher level. thats why religion and politics dont work together at all. you need real debates, accountability, and checks and balances for a great society. not blind devotion. that only creates downfalls.

Wow, considering these comments on are posted to CNN, I would not have expected that only one or two of them would be intelligent and well thought out.

This is all about the First Amendment rights that General Petraeus spoke of. MoveOn.org took an cheap shot and got called on it. They have an agenda, no suprise here, and the defenders of our freedom will continue to fight for their rights to be as uninformed and misguided as they want to be. That does not mean that they will not get challenged and called out when the take a cheap shot.

Bill, from SC, you are so wrong to just blindly follow a president just because he is the president. this is not how our country was built. our founding fathers were rebels against their leaders. this is why the republicans go after the religous vote. religous people are used to just following with no justification of credibilty so it makes sense for them to follow a president only because he has the word "president" in front of his name. I dont understand how you cant question your leadership. these are the people leading you and they are humans!! hitler led people, nixon led people, saddam led people, Kim Jong leads people today….osama binLaden leads people. we have to understand questioning leadership might be uncomfortbale, but its the challenges that push people to a higher level. thats why religion and politics dont work together at all. you need real debates, accountability, and checks and balances for a great society. not blind devotion. blind devotion only creates downfalls.

General Petraeous calls them as he sees them. At West point he was taught that a cadet does not cheat, lie, or steal. That has guided all his life. Simply ask those officers that have served under him. It is despicable that moveon can not simply debate the issue, but has to resort to punches below the belt. Moveon simply has no credibility.

Freedom of speech is a right of all. Sometimes tolerance of words we find offensive is a price we must pay for freedom of speech.

If we are not willing to exercise tolerance, we risk losing our freedoms.

Anger and hate, stupidity and political posturing are not examples of tolerance.

about the comment entered by pete ts in florida: come on. the general is not against free speech. he's against inacurrate speech. or uneducated speech. or stupid speech. you pick. maybe you'll get it right. but wait a minute. you're from florida where voting is suspect. leo in california.

Maybe Rudy should take out a full-page ad and explain to the American people how his bungling of the emergency planning before 9/11 (such as placing the command center at the site of a previous terrorist attack and giving police and firefighters radios that prevented them from talking to each other) actually led to MORE people dying on 9/11.

And if he's looking for honesty, he should tell the American people how much money he's made over the past six years by profiting personally from his role in 9/11….

Really Rudy! I do not get it the conservative press throws insults at Democrats all the time ( Ann Coulter) come to mind. Maybe Rudy should and the rest of the Republicans should get a life.

There is a typo under the picture caption.

Posted By bprossersme: Moveon.com has bought and paid for:
Hillary Clinton Barack Obama
John Edwards etc, etc.
Democrats scared to stand up to
scum-bags like Move-on.com

Moveon.org is a 527 group, which is a tax exempt classification. 527 groups do not directly advocate a political candidate, otherwise they fall under PAC restrictions.

527 groups are a protected form of free speech under the Constitution as declared by the Supreme Court in the case of Federal Election Commission v. Wisconsin Right to Life, Inc.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which was instrumental in the character assassination of John Kerry is also a 527 group. I don't remember Bush standing up to the Swiftboats.

I guess "scum-bag" depends on which side of the aisle you sit on.

Pete, he said he disagrees with the message not their right to issue it.

George, when good-natured people say things as bizarre as Ron Paul was, they smile.

Sue & David, Hillary called a distinguished general a liar in roundabout words and didn't denounce the ad. She should apologize.

Lis & Joan, I didn't hear Rudy say that he wants to cancel the 1st Amendment. He merely said that the comments were wrong. Does Rudy have any less right to critize someone than Hillary?

Bill & Veronica, The Swiftboaters don't contribute to Rudy's campaign efforts like MoveOn.org does for Hillary. Your argument is nonsense.

Charlotte, Check newsbusters.org for a dose of which side of the political spectrum floats around in fantasyland.

Millie, you are obviously unaware of what Rudy did on 9-11. I ask you to view the tapes of a calm, organized, and collected man on that day.

Pete, Bill, & AJ Are you suggesting that only dems should have the right to free speech? Intesting…

Bernie, based on what information? From the mainstream media? Now, there's an accurate protrayal of the world. Check newsbusters.org for a reality check

Steve, I love how your link is to MoveOn to put us all in our place about the facts. It's obvious that they are selling an agenda.

CL, could you please make some sense or not post?

Len, I think being on the side of national security is a pretty good side to be on.

Christopher, Rudy did comment on the testimony. Did you bother looking for it before speaking?

Sarah, of course it got the same rate. If they didn't, they're whole paper would come down.

Jessica, yes and did you know that Big Foot, the Locness Monster, and the Tooth Fairy sat down for tea the other day?

George, thanks for your "expert" analysis, but I think I'll pass for someone who knows something about it.

J0shLe0, the one channel that doesn't have a liberal bias is constantly under attack. Will you not be satisifed until you have them all?

Rich, Of course you have a right to feel anything you want.

OK, now. Let's give Rudy credit for pouncing on what is an important issue. The leading dem candidate thinks that she can call military commanders liars in colorful language when she has at best 1% of the knowledge that he has about the situation. Neither Rudy nor Clinton has military experience, so between the two of them, I'd much rather have the one that trusts and believe in the people who have the most of that kind of experience. I'm glad he went to bat for our distinguished general and I think we should all appreciate that no matter what our political agenda.

Does anyone even read the NYT any more?

PAY ATTENTION TO THE ARGUMENT HERE! THE "UNBIASED" NEW YORK POST GAVE DEALS TO A FUNDAMENTALLY LIBERAL ORGANIZATION LIKE MOVEON, WHILE CHARGING ALMOST TRIPLE TO THE MORE CONSERVATIVE GROUPS. WHAT DOES THAT SAY TO YOU????? YOU SHOULD BE VERY AFRAID OF THIS KIND OF MANIPULATION BY THE SO CALLED FREE PRESS!

Giuliani said nothing about the "Swift Boat" ads of the Bush campaign and lied to us Nyers about the conditions in lower Manhattan after 911. He has no standing amoung those who know him! he is a lier and a cheat!

Boo hoo

Zelda

What in the world are you talking about? The reason that Hitler's regime was able to methodically exterminate 6 MM Jews and 6 MM other people is because the people of Germany did not stand up to their own government and speak out. If responsible Germans had taken out a full page ad in the Berlin Times exposing the lies their own government was spewing out, well maybe things would be different and I would have more relatives.

The United States is a great nation because we not only ALLOW moveon.org to put an ad in the newspaper, we encourage it. That's what the press is for - YOU FREAKING IDIOTS. They are the way people of the US get information that is NOT sanitized or spun by the government. You can watch CNN and Fox, hear different viewpoints and then make your own judgement.

PS - Hi Sue

Petraeus is mostly the reason Iraq is headed for a civil war, first he alienates the Sunni earlier on then he arms the "national police" who turned out to be nothing but shiite death squads, every night on the news we kept hearing, "insurgents dressed in police uniforms executed 20 men on a bus", Duh….so now he claims that he is arming the shiite to defend themselves against al Qaeda and things are getting better because now they are fighting the same enemy, once again….duh, this particular al Qaeda cell ARE Iraqi Sunnis who by the way Petraeus is inadvertedly arming because the Sunnis need to defend themselves against Shiite radicals from Iraq and Iran, thus Shiite are still fighting Sunni but now with our weapons, so how are things getting better?
I don't know if Petraeus is a smart man or not? But he is totally being manipulated by certain Iraqis groups on both sides with their own self interest.

Petraeus has been a total FUBAR

*NO ONE* who watches Fox News has any business debating inappropriate speech, irresponsible journalism, or character assassination.

This is a classic case of RDS — "Republican Double-Standard Syndrome."

We already have slime for president

Republicans are the biggest hypocrites in the whole world. First they all want to act like they are all religious and family oriented and support marriage and are against gay marriage. All I have to say to that is Vitter, Graig, and Gingrich (going after Bill Clinton when he was cheating on his wife at the same time). The list goes on and I really do feel bad for all those rightwing religious nuts when all those people they support suddenly are doing all this unchristian things.
Second, they all want to act as if they are against character attacks. All I have to say to that is Swift boat ads, Ann Coulter and Limbaugh.
I agree 100% with the person who said that Rudy is just milking September 11 dry. Why does he want us to elect him, as President of the United States and all he ever did was be a mayor? Are Republican really that stupid and blind to see that this man really have no qualifications what so ever to be president of the most powerful nation in the world?

RUDY - GET A GRIP

Those of you who say Democrats should stand up to Move On, should also get a grip. FREE SPEECH PEOPLE

I concur with the blogger who mentioned Generals being retired when they didn't concur with what Mr. Bush wants.

Rudy is a SICKO, he was married to his 2nd cousin for 14 years, that is disgusting. Many cultures marry their cousins, but that's not how we normally do things in AMERICA. What does that same about him. Not only was he married to his second cousin, he knew it was his second cousin, they grew up together. NASTY

I don't like him for many reasons, but I do hold his handling of his personal life against him. If he can't respect his wives, and kids, that says something about his character. Also, I'm concerned about the company he keeps, and the people he stand up for, saying they are the best people he knows. His best friend was defrocked for allegations of sex abuse, another friend brought up on corruption charges. That's great he stands up for his friends, my usually friends have many things in common. Things that make you wonder.

Everybody out there is questioning why Rudy attacked Hillary Clinton claiming that she has no guilt in this…well actually if you paid attention to what the candidates were saying all the time, not just when it's during a debate or press conference, you'd know that Mr. Guliani is attacking Mrs. Clinton for one reason- she, like Moveon.org flat out called Mr. Petraus a liar. In fact, I believe her exact statement was that to believe him would "defy all reasonable thought" or something along those lines. The democratic candidates, and particularly Hillary Clinton, were calling Mr. Petraus a liar and said that his comments can't be trusted before he even opened his mouth. The man is one of the most decorated soldiers in this country, he is leading this war, and was originally supported by the same people who are now attacking him? Why would he possibly say something at the direction of the White House? Especially at the expense of American soldiers lives? He wouldn't. He's trained to lead, not to politicize and speak political jargon. The fact is that there is no reason Moveon.org or anyone should attack the man without full and complete proof that he's not forthcoming, which none of them have. Free speech is one thing, but to accuse him of lying before he even speaks is dispicable and something that shouldn't be tolerated.

I listened to the testimony before Congress and Obama and McCain were the only heavy hitters that treated the man with the respect he deserves. Clinton was there to put on a show and it was clear that she had one agenda and it wasn't to find out the truth and/or what was going on. It was to attack and make herself look good.

Clinton has no interest in making this country better. In fact, the only way she can succeed in this election is if America fails in Iraq. Her candidacy is tied directly to American failure. She would take pleasure and glorify if more American lives are lost. Is that the type of candidate we want? Someone that's cheering for more soldiers to be killed? I don't think so.

To be honest, I don't know enough about Obama's leadership and toughness to say one way or the other, but he seems intelligent and honest. McCain doesn't have a shot at winning, but he truly has a good heart and is open and honest about what he feels on every issue…he's not political and we need that.

Overall, I believe that there is freedom of speech in this country, but what moveon.org and Hillary Clinton and others have done is just UNPATRIOTIC and they should be reprimanded the only place it hurts for them…in the polls and in the poll of public opinion.

The headline of the ad was in poor taste, in my opinion. There is no need to engage in a personal attack on General Petraeus. That being said, I have no problem with the underlaying message. Moveon has the right to speak its mind about Iraq and they are not being unpatriotic to do so. My only question is where was the outcry when John Kerry was personally attacked by the swiftboaters?

To Ron from TX: I'm no Guiliani supporter, but he is not trying to limit free speech. He simply said he disagrees with those who are excercising the right. If we read the words correctly instead of assuming certain things just because we don't like the candidate, we may actually get somewhere.

It's hilarious to think that the problem with Iraq is this ad, not five years of stupidity in Iraq.

"Give it a rest, Republicans.

The ad isn't that bad"

Love that quote from Christian in Tampa, FL. So if we also released an add w/ John Edwards on the front and the words hypocrite pasted across his forehead for wasting cash on such a huge house while he talks about poverty - I guess that wouldn't be that bad either, right? I guess you have to have integrity first before you can actually see when someone else's is called into question.

This is why I will not vote for Rudy Giuliani. MoveOn.org post an article he doesn't like and he attacks Hillary Clinton. We are attacked on 9-11 but people from every county EXCEPT Iraq, and we attach Iraq. This is another example of "the gang that can't shoot straigt" and people who will say, do, and attack anyone if they think it will get the elected. There is only one honest Republican running and that is McCain. But even he can't get seems to know who is the real bad guys.

"Rudy Giuliani campaigning in Atlanta, blasted the Times and demanded that the newspaper "give us the same rate, the heavily discounted rate they gave MoveOn.org for that abominable ad."

Is the problem the content of the ad or is Giuliani whining because he didn't have a coupon? The Times is allowed to have an editorial opinion whether that was the reason for the discounted ad or not. They are a business and no one should appreciate the separation between public policy and a business more than a Republican. You can't have your cake and eat it too Rudolph.

Sorry Rudy. It's all part of the double standard. The Democraps and the liberal media like the Times and the Washington comPost get away with just about anything they want.

To all of you Anti-American Liberals;
I stromgly suggest that you wake up & face reality as it really is instead of the self defeating agenda you all seem to profess. It's a cruel world out there and unless we do what is necessary to insure a free world we will all be speaking Russian or Chinese. If the US gives up on Iraq prematurely I guarantee you we will all live to regret it. How about putting our country 1st instead of you cowardise.

Such an uproar over the MoveOn ad in the Times. Why wasn't there an uproar when ads appeared questioning John Kerry and Max Clennan? Why hasn't there been an uproar over the administration playing fast and loose with the truth about the war? Recently I've been seeing ads on CNN that use wounded Iraqi vets talking about the need to continue the war and using words that are STILL trying to link this fiasco with 911. Where's the uproar about that? Maybe if the media and others had questioned Colin Powell's and others' testimony in the run up to the Iraq war, there wouldn't need to be questions asked now.And who knows if 6 months or a year from now, MoveOn might be able to say "we told you so." I wish the press and elected officials would stand up to the people who have done so much damage to so many. Where's the uproar about that?

Dan,

"Pete, Bill, & AJ Are you suggesting that only dems should have the right to free speech? "

Your fundemental mistake here is to assume that I may be a democrat, surprise I am a Republican who is not very happy with the party. I feel betrayed and I am man enough to admitt that America is in trouble. I served my nation for 26 years because I believe in the constitution and I am proud to defend our rights even those of people that I may not agree with.

Dear Kim
What I mean is this. People laughed at the extremist ideals of Adolph Hitler, and basically ignored what was going on and ignored the threat. I see people doing THE SAME thing today with Muslim extremists. And the DEMOCRATS are THE WORST offenders! They're so consumed with their own self absorbed lives and social idealism that they seem to have no idea what's actually going on in the world. IN the meantime, fundamentalist extreme Islam is growing at an alarming rate and SLOWLY taking over once democratic societies like Turkey, and infiltrating places like Denmark and Germany. Listen up! George W Bush might not be perfect, but AT LEAST he's smart enough to take this threat seriously. The Democrats are WAY TOO WILLING to turn a blind eye. VOTE REPUBLICAN!

First of all,,,
Hillary's comment "a willing suspension of disbelief"is one of the funniest and most ironic comments I ever heard.
Isn't she the same person who is married to BILL CLINTON ,,of,,
"it depends on what you mean by IS " ,,fame ,,OR ,,"I did not have sex with that women ",,Fame.
Secondly,,,
The TIMES said that their advocacy rate is what MOVE ON paid and that that rate is for a "floating date" not a specific date,,,isn't it odd then that it appeared on the same day as the Petraous hearings!!!
It looks to me like The TIMES just made about an $180,000 donation to the democratic party and all the Democratic candidates are afraid to say anything to upset George Soros OR the afree with what was said,,,Its that simple
Ya gotta admit,,we are not even trying to have a reasonable debate of the facts anymore are we,,,

Why doesn’t Giuliani, just ask for some money he and his cohorts have made off this illegal war? I’m sure there is enough to go around.

moveon.org motives and actions borderline treason - simple as that. If you believe otherwise, go find an education beyond that taught in the radical mosques you tend to mimic.

Christian from Selden NY,

I don't blindly follow anyone. If you'll reread my post, you'll see that I call for restraint in the exercise of our rights at times. Just so you know, I'm well informed, well read, I just don't happen to subscribe to the view that vocal, harsh criticism is what is best for our country. I also never said that I didn't question the leadership, I just do it in a more civilized way than the hate filled left and right do. I also happen to be a religious person, and I do not in any way shape or form "follow with no justicifation of credibility". But then again, that is exactly the type of language I expect to find on this message board.

I can't believe what I am reading. How can you people support Moveon.org for smearing the name of a man who has devoted his life to serving and protecting this country? Do you really think that a 4 star General would perjure himself in front of the nation?

When a republican(s) start whining about dirty tactics to me it is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Guilliani, 9/11, terrorists and Iraq. When is he going to stop running on 9/11? He did practically nothing, NYC citizens were the heros that day. When is he going to stop linking terrorism and Iraq? There were no terroists in Iraq before the war. The terrorists came when we unitlaterly attacked that country.

The republicans record when it comes to terrorism and this war is terrible. The situation is worse not better. Time to give someone else a try.

It is tempting to think about two veto-proof houses controlled by the democrats and a republican president who will be stuck with Bush's failed Iraq policy.

1. Where were the GOP candidates when Fox Noise was criticizing and putting down Retired Generals who have said this war is a failure and we should pull out.
2. The ad rate is normal, so Rudy should apologise. If the Republican version of MoveOn want to place a similar ad, then they can. Rudy did get the same rate for his ad, so why complain.
3. For those who commented about Islamic Fundamentalists coming in to the U.S. if the U.S. doesn't stay in Iraq, you ought to look at the borders now. If 12,000,000 illegal immigrants can get in now, what the hell is going to stop anyone who wants to attack the U.S. from doing it now if they wanted too? Unsecured borders and waterways are very easy to get through. If terrorists want to attack, there are plenty of targets not secured, such as waterways, subways, hospitals and so on. Just watch the terrorism experts on TV and the idiots will tell you the targets.
4. Katie Couric plays to the right wing? She's fighting for her job. But at least she had the guts to go, following Brian Williams and Bob Woodruff. Then you have those who stay there day in and day out almost since the beginning who tell you things are not getting better. I think all candidates and on air journalists commenting on the war ought to spend at least a month in Iraq. This would also include those good folks at Fox like Billo, John Gibbons, Brit boy, Hannity & Colmes, Neil Cavuto, Ann Coulter, Tucker Carlson, Joe Scarborough, Keith O, Chris M, Wolf, Lou and so on.
Hats off to AC and Geraldo as they did it, and not just for a day or two.
5. Rove clearly called John McCain's mental state into account when he ran for the GOP leadership years ago, but nothing was said then.
6. I can't believe we all wasted this much time on this when over 3700 troops have been killed (how many since Mission Accomplished?) and over 20,000 wounded. Yeah, I guess it's worth the fight! To the young (18-40)who support this war, help out and sign up. You'll get a signing bonus!

Frankie G,

Get a life!

Chris Wilmington,

This whole war has been about perjury, I too served my country honorably, the difference is I choose to speak up based on my conviction that this war is a mistake and the General wants to keep his job. He is between a rock and a hard spot. It is his choice!

Posted By Dan (Baltimore, MD) : September 14, 2007 11:59 am

The only nonsense I see, Dan, is your weak attempts at justifying Rudy's whining. He said the ad slandered Petraeus; just as Rove & Co. slandered Max Cleland; just as the Swiftboaters slandered Kerry. It has nothing to do with who donates to who but EVERYTHING to do with selective outrage … a pitiful GOP attribute indeed.

Therefore, YOUR argument is nonsense.

Ya gotta feel sorry for Rudy!

Since he walks lock step with Bush in supporting the greatest foreign policy debacle of our time he's gotta talk about something.

The more the moveon and libs speak the more the Republican base getting energized. Keep it up. We are working on some congressional and prez race surprises.

"Meanwhile, MoveOn's political action committee will begin airing a new ad on television Monday that accuses Bush of a "betrayal of trust." The ad will run from Monday to Friday in Washington on cable and nationally on CNN. The total ad buy is $60,000."

A TV ad for 5 days as cheap as a one page newspaper ad? What? Is this another family discount??

CNN "Betrays US" too.

Rudy has fallen right into this little [urinating] match started by MoveOn.org with full knowledge and tacit support of Congressional leadership.

Hey Pete,
Get an education!

Well I guess according to Pete from Florida, General Petraeus has committed perjury, so I guess we can try him for such. If you really did serve this country than I thank you Pete, and I am happy that your views are allowed to be heard in this free country. Do yourself and your countrymen a favor and criticize Bush and the republicans, not anyone who wears a uniform. They are not the policy makers, they should not be criticized.

Giuliani is part of the problem and not the solution. He is blasting the NY times just because he doesn't agree. He can put out his own add if he doesn't like it.

George W. Bush is great. The war is wonderful. Moveon.org is horrible. We need to return to basic morality. I would write more, but I have a prostitute here waiting to put my diapers on. Posted By John R, San Francisco CA : September 14, 2007 11:11 am

Senator Vitter, I presume……

I can understand people getting upset about a political action group running an ad questioning a member of the military. What I question is where was this outrage when the "Swift Boaters" did the same thing to John Kerry?

By the way freaks… Rudy Giuliani got his print ad for $65,000. I guess the New York Slimes saw what they did was disgusting and horrible. Unfortunately his ad didn't defend Petrraeus. I have Rudy Giuliani's TV ad over at my blog that pulverizes Hillary over Petraeus… She's on FIRE!

http://edgruberman.wordpress.com

Chris,

Wearing a uniform does not make you credible, honest or great. I am not challenging the General's long service and sacrafice. However the good General also has a responsibility to those serving under him and in my eyes he has lost sight of that as have many before him. Westmoreland….

And far as criticizing Bush and the Republicans, I do that. And I will be all over anyone no matter the politcal affiliation until my brothers and sisters are home. No I am not naive enough to think they can all be home now, but we need to start!

Peter D. Walnut Creek, CA

its great how you can say the iraq war is a "bad situation" A BAD SITUATION!??! do you even understand what is happening. people are dying every day people are losing their children their fathers, mothers brothers EVERY DAY!!!!! and you quickly dismiss it as a "bad situation" and go on to quote hillary's words…..america is so backwards. do you UNDERSTAND THE REPUBLICANS SCREWED UP VERY BAD….DISGRACEFUL what are you defending? the iraqi war is not just "one of the issues" we are destroying ourselves with this pathetic "war". what is wrong with america!??!it is an atrocity. george bush and his administration is responsible and should be removed NOW not in a year…….