Watch excerpts of Sen. Obama's tax policy speech.
WASHINGTON (CNN) – Barack Obama unveiled his tax cut plan Tuesday in Washington. Some would call it a Robin Hood approach, taking from the rich and giving to the poor. (Related: Obama tax plan: $80 billion in cuts, five-minute filings)
"At a time when Americans are working harder than ever, we are taxing income from work at nearly twice the level that we're taxing gains for investors," said the Democratic presidential candidate.
Obama said the current tax system is working against most Americans and he wants to fix it, arguing, "I'll restore simplicity to the tax code and fairness for the American middle class. It's time to stand up to special interest carve outs.”
Obama said his plan calls for “cutting taxes for working people, homeowners, and seniors."
Among the specifics: a tax cut of up to one thousand dollars for 150 million working Americans, a tax credit for homeowners that don't itemize their deductions, eliminating the income tax for seniors making less than 50 thousand dollars annually, and a simplified tax filing process
The Illinois senator said that he’ll pay for all this by “shutting down corporate loopholes and tax havens. We'll also turn the page on an approach that gives repeated tax cuts to the wealthiest one percent of Americans even though they don't need them and didn't ask for them."
That sounds similar to Obama’s Democratic rivals, including Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York, and former Sen. John Edwards, D-North Carolina. They rolled out their tax plans earlier this year – with Clinton calling for “rolling back some of President Bush's fiscally-irresponsible tax breaks for the highest income Americans," and Edwards pledging to “get rid of Bush's tax cut for people who make over two hundred thousand dollars a year."
Tuesday’s announcement in Washington is part of an economic policy push by Obama. On Monday, he was at the NASDAQ headquarters in New York City, chastising Wall Street executives for looking out for themselves rather than helping the middle class.
– CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser
From CNN Politics
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Obamahood! His tax plan sounds great to me! Very nobel!
Robin Hood is good socialist fiction but bad public policy. Indeed it borders on an unconstitutional taking if you're crazy enough to put it in those terms. Fortunately, Obama has little or no chance of being elected after voters start listening– in October.
Obama failed to mention how he would prevent a greater tax burden on the rich from making more of the rich move out of the country in search of tax relief (and then pay the lowest amount , 0%). Also, his increase in corporate taxes only increases prices or increases unemployment as companies either pass their tax burden onto consumers or slash cost by removing wage costs. His plan on taxes is naive just like every other plan he has developed. An Obama presidency would bring in lower tax revenues, increased prices, and increased unemployment. At least in Obama's favor, this is no different than any of the other dems.
Obama is the ONLY one who has the ideas and judgment to be President.
He may not have all that bad experience of making mistakes like the other candidates, but he will have lots of time to do that after he gets elected.He makes people so excited that many have to go to the bathroom, and he has the best plan for health care, without a doubt, and no one can deny it. His charisma is shinier than Edwards' hair, prettier than Mitt Romney's wife and more colorful than Hillary's pants suit, and he's Bi-Racial! What more could you want?
He's even been a senator of a state, now he's a real senator and they make great Presidents, which is impossible to deny. He has a guy so smart with him now that nobody can pronounce his name, forget about spell it!
The MSM just doesn't tell you how people can't stop yelling when they see him, or how many people have to go to the bathroom, or about the guy who's name nobody can pronounce, or that he's the only one who can bring us together and he went to AFRICA! What more could you want?
He doesn't even wear a tie a lot of the time! His health care plan is the best and he was against the war before anyone else, go ahead and ask him and he will tell you!
He doesn't need a tie and he's not tied to the special interests or the past! Whatever you think about him, he thought of it first and you are just copying him!
ASK HIM! I dare you.
Blah, Blah, Blah....He sounds like a car salesman. "Come on down to Obama's Used Cars and Smoked Turkeys! We'll give you hard-working folks a one-thousand dollar check for buying from us!" Then you drive of with $1,000.00 dollars in your pocket and a car that will cost you $10,000.00 a year to keep it running.
Unfortunately this kind of strategy appeals to narrow-minded people who only think about immediate gratificaton and not the long term consequences. And, more & more, it seems like the U.S. is filled with these people.
I'm not buying the car...and I'm not buying Obama.
Who doesn't love a good Robinhood tax plan. Next when Obama wins the Democratic debate he can swordfight with Sheriff (Republican Candidate) who cares. Anyway I'd like to see that swashbuckler whether its a word debate or a swordfight.
Hhhhm, this doesn't sound like robin hood redistributino to me. Sounds like closing loopholes, offshore cheaters and restoring the middle class to paying thier fair share.
I am sick of hearing about the wealthiest one percent. Even if it were .5%,they earned that money and it should not be taken away simply because dems don't like rich people. What about you Barack, why don't you start putting out for social security like the rest of us? What about the fact that the wealthy pay and pay again when they die? Why should the government get 50% of their estate when it has already been taxed? Middle class needs a break, but not at the expense of those who employ them
Considering individuals earning over $100,000 (10% of the population) already pay for 67% of the total taxes each year – it's "unfair" to offer them any relief. Instead, let's cut the taxes of individuals $50,000 and under who only pay 7.5% of the total tax collected by the IRS.
Those poor souls... they get 67% of all the benefits and only pay 7.5% of the costs. Let's give them MORE benefits and increase the taxes on the wealthy Americans.
This approach is EITHER buying votes or a belief in a socialism. Which is it, Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama?
Who remembers the Campaign of 1992? Then President Bush Sr. was stuck in his heroic Kuwait war.
The motto of the campaign though was: "It's the economy, stupid". Bush lost.
No need to make it explicit here. 2 days, back to back. 2 policies from the fron-runners.
Excellent plan.
I'm sure someone will find a way to spin this negatively though.
This guy seems to be really be about helping people. And I don't think it's about hand outs, it's about rewarding those that work hard.
I hope the other candidates follow suit, but I doubt it.
Wallace
It's about time that the 1% of the population who control 90% of the money pay, without shelters, dirty tricks, and special breaks, their fair portion of the taxes. This nation cannot continue to have it's Middle Class (becoming Working Poor) hold up the rich and let them get away with their outrageous salaries, retirement plans, and bonuses. I can point to the CEO of ComEd here in IL who makes (ready?) $63,000 A DAY. Yes people, that's one day. Let's not forget we should also take away the free rides of our Congressmen. Make them hunt for the best health insurance, make them rely on the "generosity" of corporations for their pensions and make those pensions be at the same rate as the people (and not their total salaries). Have them dig through paperwork after paperwork to find the best prices for other insurances. In other words bring OUR ELECTED officials back to OUR level and NOT the CEOs, and force the CEOs to realize that they are only better because they are allowed to be, not because they deserve it. Last but not least take away the single stupidest idea in the financial history of our nation and remove the ability for a corporation to be an "individual." If anything has caused this nation to turn into a Modern Aristocracy, it's that.
Good job Barack! It's about time the MIDDLE CLASS gets a fair shake.
The more I see and hear about Obama, the more I realize that he is the ONLY one, of all these candidates, that makes any sense.
Boy, we really need someone like you to move America forward.
You've got my vote.
I have read it and I approve. All for it because it's REALITY based! It is time to give back to all of the people stuck in the middle who work so hard and get little in return. The segment on seniors under $50,000 is a good one and the break for home owners who don't itemize - imagine the Republicans never though of that - but then Tony Snow resigned for economic reasons - how many families could and do share what he makes 2, 3, 4??? REALITY BASED!!
It has the simplicity everyone has cried for - although there will be those that will find fault somewhere
But people who make above $50K are also "working people" and "homeowners." I'm certainly not "rich."
Excellent and long overdue! All those CEO's hopping around , one year here – six months there, pocketing their millions in spite of lukewarm results, all those Enron-style fellas getting rich off their clever scams and using off-shore accounts while getting governmental subsidies... Never in the history of this country there was such a gap between CEO's and their hard working employees putting in 50-60 hours in salaried jobs just to stay afloat. Their call-girls are swimming in pools filled with champagne, while our bridges are falling apart... Get rich the old fashion way – earn it.
Go Barack!
Mr. Obama–
Okay, once you've taken from the rich and given to the poor, how do you expect things have changed? Do you honestly think the poor will be better off, will use the money to improve themselves? Do you really think it is the government's responsibility to take from those who have worked hard and have earned the success of hard work and give some of their earnings to those who will, generally speaking, not appreciate it and not actually better themselves? Do you think the poor actually will better themselves if you simply give them money?
Distribution of wealth, is that your plan? Are you a socialist, sir?
I think it's a great idea. Make the rich pay more.....they make more. It's alot easier for them to fork out a thousand buck than it is for me. Look at Paris Hilton. Girl spends a thousand bucks just drinking for a weekend. I'd be in high heaven if I had a thousand bucks just laying around.
Some real economic geniuses at work here. Many postings saying that the "rich" don't pay their fair share of the tax load, yet, as Henry noted, the top 10% of earners pay 67% of the taxes. Sounds like more than a fair share to me. And most of that tax money goes to entitlements for the "less fortunate."
I don't make $100,000 per year and I pay my full share of taxes, but I've read enough history to know that overtaxing the wealthiest segments of the population is the equivalent of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Even our socialist counterparts in Europe followed our lead and dramatically lowered the top tax rates from 90% to 35%. What happened? Economic growth, government revenue and general prosperity suddenly occured.
It's easy to say someone else should pay if they have the means. But guess what? I'll bet if you were the one that had the means, you wouldn't be posting these ridiculous comments.
TO THE ANTI OBAMA POSTERS HERE: Either you CAN'T READ or your comprehension skills are sorely lacking. Rolling back the TAX CUTS on the upper 1% of Americans is not "TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM THEM"!!! It is returning their tax burden to where it was before Bush took office. It's not like rolling back the tax cuts is the difference between these people HAVING FOOD and NOT HAVING FOOD!!!
You Republicans always spout the same nonsense.....This isn't "socialist" governing..it's COMMON SENSE!!! Cut loopholes for corporate America so they pay their fair share.....why should seniors making under $50K a year pay taxes???? What's wrong with a flat tax for homeowners that don't itemize??? HOW CAN YOU FIND FAULT WITH THESE IDEAS??
Grow a brain people!!! OBAMA '08!!
John Edwards proposed a smart, new tax plan several months ago...Edwards was also the first candidate with a truly universal health plan...several months later, Senator Obama followed...Edwards also has the most aggressive plan for fighting global warming and getting us out of Iraq...John Edwards is the leader in the Democratic Party...the others are followers.
P.S. I sincerely RESENT CNN characterizing Obama's plan as the "Robin Hood" approach....saying so is nothing more than hyperbole.
This sounds like a GREAT plan! I'm looking forward to seeing how the DFL crafts this to get it passed. We desperately need to help the middle class that Bush and the GOP are destroying.
Contrary to what others here may think, I do not begrudge the wealthy their wealth. However, in my middle class experience, I believe the tax cuts just aren't working out as well for the middle class. Why you ask? For starters, the gap between the wealthy and the middle/lower classes HAS widened quite a bit in the past few years.
Every few days, I ask myself if the election were tomorrow, which candidate has my support?
Obama wins, as he offers hope of radical change that (because of the last election results)has now become an emergent situation. I just do not trust Hillary, we need Obama, a fresh and insightful person, as our leader.
Bravo Senator Obama! Leading the way again and bringing the issues out in the open for debate!
Fire it up!
O8AMA!
I am sick of hearing about the wealthiest one percent. Even if it were .5%,they earned that money and it should not be taken away simply because dems don't like rich people. What about you Barack, why don't you start putting out for social security like the rest of us? What about the fact that the wealthy pay and pay again when they die? Why should the government get 50% of their estate when it has already been taxed? Middle class needs a break, but not at the expense of those who employ them
^^Well guess what i earned my 34,000 and why should I pay a higher rate then bill gates whos gonna give that money away anyway and then write it off for tax breaks! So your all advocates for the rich getting richer and the poorer getting poorer. All you brillian economist on here talking trash about Obama. But little do you know he could have been on wallstreet making more then what your making now!So get off Obama and let the man help the people! Whats wrong with that people are so selfish its not even funny. my god
Mr. Obama–
Okay, once you've taken from the rich and given to the poor, how do you expect things have changed? Do you honestly think the poor will be better off, will use the money to improve themselves? Do you really think it is the government's responsibility to take from those who have worked hard and have earned the success of hard work and give some of their earnings to those who will, generally speaking, not appreciate it and not actually better themselves? Do you think the poor actually will better themselves if you simply give them money?
Distribution of wealth, is that your plan? Are you a socialist, sir?
The middle class is included in this as well buddy. Why should the middle class carry the lower and upper class while the upper class just continue to be on MTV cribs take trips around the world and leave us hard working folk here to pay the majority of the taxes? yeah you rich folks would rather have it that way wouldnt you dont want us middle class folks to ever get a piece of that pie. thanks
"At a time when Americans are working harder than ever, we are taxing income from work at nearly twice the level that we're taxing gains for investors," said the Democratic presidential candidate.
^^^Yeah for the rich I guess we dont earn our money either. Thanks Obama for recognizing those who actually help the rich get richer. They just work oh so much harder then we do.
I was wondering if it was just an error. I have been looking on the "FOXNOISE WEBSITE" They have no story on Senator Obama's economic plan. ABCNEWS has it at the very bottom. CNN has tried to spin the story around suggesting Obama's plan is Robin Hood approach. Senator Clintons lame health care story is allover the place on ABC CNN and MSNBC. Woo!!! What a bias country?
So I see some people are saying that the rich deserve their money because they "earned it." Right. Look at the CEOs of Enron, Worldcomm, etc. See how they and their financial officers got wealthier and wealthier and they how the raped their employees of the pensions, of their jobs, of their lives. Those trash didn't earn a damn thing, they stole it. They robbed it from the REAL workers who propped them up and believed in them. As for all the pathetic, outdated, McCarthyistic whining about Socialism the FACT that any economist will tell you (except a paid off one) is that no economic system can exist without aspects of others. And any taken to the extreme is doomed to total failure. Communism was an example of Socialism taken to the extreme and it failed utterly. Capitalism is now at it's extreme and guess what? It's failing, FAST. Ask the millions in foreclosure. Ask the millions who lost their jobs since 9/11 and never got them back at their same salarires. Oh sure, the unemployment stats have gone down, but that's only because they were forced to take Walmart or other low end jobs nothing close to what they made before. The economy is only as good as the lies perpetuated by the people in charge, the Federal Goverment. The reality on the street is the economy is a train wreck and piling up worse.
Sounds like a we've found a warrior for the middle class to me. He's definitely got my vote.
Posted By Dan (Baltimore, MD) : September 18, 2007 5:00 pm
If the rich care so little about America that they would move to another country if we raise the capital gains tax to the level Ronald Reagan raised it to – then good riddence. I don't think any Americans would leave this country for that reason. I don't think the majority of rich people are very critical of Obama's tax plan, either. I think they'll realize they've already made out well over the past 20 years.
Also, business can't make profits if consumers can't buy their products. The tax cut to lower income Americans will go directly back to corporations and their shareholders – NOT retained in the pockets of CEOs. They call it a capital GAINS tax because they made money. Certainly there will be compromise, capital gains from sales of a primary residence probably should remain at a lower capital gains tax rate than sales of stocks.
I'm one of the one's who wouldn't gain by Obama's plans from the tax cut. But I would gain much by living in a society where my neighbors weren't visibly suffering.
It's a hoot to read all these tax cut Republicans complaining here about a plan to cut taxes, just because it doesn't come from the GOP. What hypocrisy. You guys will say anything and it makes you look so... I daresn't say it.
Lavelle – NY,
Bill Gates will probably pay more in taxes THIS year than you will earn in your life time. How can you in all seriousness expect anyone to believe you will pay more in taxes than Bill Gates?
It's this arrogance and sense of benefit entitlement which is so destructive. What you are clearly advocating is socialism, NOT a fair tax plan which treats all individuals equally.
But keep complaining how the world owes you so much! There will be pandering politicians that enforce your sense of entitlement – namely the democrats.
To quote one well known and fairly accepted analyst of modern political economy:
"Our epoch, the epoch of the
bourgeoisie, possesses, however, this
distinct feature: it has simplified
class antagonisms. Society as a whole
is more and more splitting up into
two great hostile camps, into two
great classes directly facing each
other — Bourgeoisie and Proletariat."
It seems to me that this is pretty obvious (rich get richer/poor get poorer). Obama's plan seems to address the symptoms of this issue, even if nobody is discussing the cause of it. I think it is a good plan, but I don't make more than 200 K a year.
P.S. Don't confuse my point, I am not advocating communism by quoting Marx. Some of his ideas were pretty far fetched, but his analysis of capitalism was spot on.
Hot City, TX
These narrow minded americans sound a lot like the folks who voted G. Bush into office, TWICE! Maybe these same dumb dumbs will make a better choice this time around...
another scum bag liberal... spending my money to give it to lazy asses who suck off the government and do not work. He should be thanking all the rich people for paying for everything already. We have the most disgusting tax system already stealing money from hardworking people... double taxing income and estate taxes. It would be so fun to watch liberals if all the rich moved to another country. Obama and his democrat friends could stare at each other and cry about who is going to take care of them now.... oh my god they may actually have to work and take care of themselves..
If I work hard enough to make a lot of money, why should I pay for those who make less? Essentially, I will make $0.50 on the dollar for working 70 hours a week when some Joe Schmo makes $0.85 on the dollar for working 20 hours a week. This Robin Hood act may find itself without working rich people any longer to tax - after all, why work for less?
You all keep repeating things like "doing what's fair".... make them pay their "fair share"
Any of you logged on to Fairtax.org?
Any good reason you can offer that Obama should not support this legislation as a "Good Senator" who would make a good president?
Ask him to offer his reasons for not becoming a co-sponsor of HR-25 S1025. This will really show you who is working in the interest of the working family.
Taxing Income is counter productive and discourages productivity, saving and investments.
I would have to see the cuts, but the high end tax increase sounds good.
If you benefit form the system, you should pay to support the system. I am tired of seeing the rich getting what amounts to a free ride, or at least, a greatly discounted ride.
To Ritchie, Barabas, Jeff Spangler and co.:
Please don't read between the lines what is not there. I lived in a socialist country. Obama is no socialist whatsoever. He is just no fool willing to look the other way. He is proposing closing tax loopholes and taxing corporations that currently have their off shore accounts set up so they can avoid their fair share of tax payments...I have seen tax records of Houston oilman running for the office showing that he pays less taxes than any average American (just another great accounting). Would you say it is fair? He is not proposing to take money from people who worked hard and succeeded, but about crooks and greedy self entitlet cronies who know how to beat the system.
And exactly what would be wrong with a Robin Hood approach? Don't we have a reverse Robin Hood now?
Warren Buffet said he pays less in taxes than his secretary. Isn't that reverse Robin Hood? Isn't the government currently stealing from the poor to give it to the rich? The poor and the middle class pay the majority in income taxes.
Sen. Obama is talking about making the tax system fair. What's wrong with that? The greedy selfish media just complains about everything.
Anything Sen. Obama says that will benefit poor and middle class Americans, you guys take issue with it. Stop it!
Geez...CNN calls it Robin Hood. Can these people just stop with the initials and use CLINTON NEWS NETWORK on all their communications? All Obama is saying is that the rich people no longer get the Bush tax cuts. That's it. He's closing all the loopholes big enough for the 1 percent of us to drive their Bentley's or sail their yachts through. He's bringing our tax code back into fair play. Ask yourself, you haters, if Warren Buffett – the world's second-richest man – is asking why he pays at a smaller tax percentage than his secretary? Does that sound like a fair system to you. Obama's plan is NOT socialism. IT'S WHAT'S FAIR!
Just say "NO" to Nobama. He is pandering to class envy and ig going populist on us. He will pit us against each other and root for the one with the most votes. Don't trust this guy – he's dangerous.
Well Clinton News Network,they just had to spin and manipulate this one,didnt they?
Obama is proposing and will carry out Tax reforms that will ACTUALLY tackle the chronic problems faced by hard working americans and you call it Robin Hood?
Clinton News Network know full well he is not STEALING the rich's wealth and giving it to the poor,he is GOING TO STOP AND END THE PRACTICES USED BY the rich to STEAL THE WEALTH from the middle and working classes.He is serving long awaited economic justice for the american people.
Their day of reckoning amongst other MSM outlets will come.
Ditto on the selfish comment. I think people just have to have something to gripe about on here. If you people on here are so darn satisfied with your income distribution that must obviously work for you, why are you so darn unhappy and griping constantly? The wealthiest people pay a much lower percentage in taxes than the middle class. Why? Because they have figured out how to make their money work for them by giving them greater tax breaks. The middle class has historically supported the taxes in this country. Why should we have to suffer so much to pay for a war that I didn't want and didn't vote for, pay for ridiculous no bid contracts that line the pockets of the wealthy? I don't care for taxes or big government. I just wish our government managed our money to benefit our country and not just a select few. Like it or not, the lower class will always be given support. If you think that any candidate is socialist, you already live in a society that gives to those in need. I doubt very highly that you selfish individuals will ever get our country to ignor the poverty that we have by not helping others. If you are really wanting that kind of country, move somewhere else where people don't care about each other. Is there such a place?
Yeah,like you'll be able to "shut down" corporate America's anything!
They sit each new incoming president down and tell the president elect a whole bunch of things that almost no one else knows.One of them is "Even YOU can't mess with corporate America.You can talk about us all you want but you had better NEVER try to take away our control of this country or the planet as a whole or you...,let's put it this way.It isn't aliens at area 51!"
Do you people really think that everyone in that wealthiest 1% worked harder to make that money than the people who are holding down 2 or 3 jobs at minimum wage and still don't make enough to buy health insurance? Many of those CEO's with million dollar bonuses are taxed at a lower rate than their secretaries. What is right about that?
I like Senator Obama very much. I like that he's trying to even things out a bit. The wealthiest Americans are the ones who have a moral responsibility to support those less fortunate than themselves. For the richest, a hike in taxes is barely a drop in the bucket compared to their lifestyles now. This is an especially important problem since they already get away with paying a smaller percentage of their income than the middle and lower classes do. Obama has a great chance at becoming president, I think. I just hope he has more plans like this as well as inspirational words.
One of the comments reads "do you really think it is the government's responsibility to take from those who have worked hard and have earned the success of hard work and give some of their earnings to those who will, generally speaking, not appreciate it and not actually better themselves?
Distribution of wealth, is that your plan? Are you a socialist, sir?"
What this comment ignores is that the poor also have to work hard but because they have not been given the same opportunities, have not had the same education that the wealthy can afford, they may lack not only the wealth but also an understanding of how to keep and accumulate wealth.
The solution to that is more education for the poor, not abandoning them. As Bill Gates in his recent commencement speech at Harvard said:
“From those to whom much is given, much is expected” and "reducing inequity is the highest human achievement"
Why is it that every time a politician tries to advance policies that might be detrimental to the very rich, they are labeled as a socialist? Are all the European countries that offer free health care and free education socialists?
All those bashing Obama, any new ideas from your Republican candidates or just more of the same? We all agree the system is broken yet you guys only want to engage in political dance
Currently, if you earn $100 through sweat as a worker, you get taxed nearly double than if you make $100 simply through gains from the stock market.
Same income, different tax rates. Seems unfair, right?
This system was put in place, mostly by Republicans, to have wealth "trickle-down" from the rich to the poor. Their theory is that the rich would be benevolent enough to share the wealth via more investing for more creation of jobs. The only problem is, investors don't have to be benevolent–they could simply keep the extra money for themselves. And this is what happened.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, if you tax investors more than the workers, you get less productive workers which leads to less overall jobs for the workers.
The golden egg is trying to reach the perfect balance. So far nobody has been successful.
But now here's Obama. He simply wants to make it even: No matter how you earn that $100, you get taxed the same. A hundred is a hundred, right? Simple. It actually just might work. And it seems a lot more fair than what we have right now.
Some of what Sen. Obama says makes sense.
Assume two people go into business together, with one person putting up the money and the other person doing the work. Now imagine that at the end of the day they each make $1000.00. Is it really fair that the "investor" gets to pay a lesser tax rate than the "laborer?" Of course not. Both labor and capital are essential elements to capitalism, and Sen. Obama is right on the mark when he says that our current tax code incorrectly values wealth over work. I do not begrudge the wealthy their money nor do I wish to punish them for their success, but I don't believe a regressive tax serves our society.
However Sen. Obama ~misses~ the mark, as do many Democrats, when he seeks to provide tax cuts to the lower economic classes. The fact is, if you are married with a couple kids and make $50K or less, then you already pay little or no income tax, and in many cases you actually qualify for Federal subsidies in the form of the Earned Income Credit and the Additional Child Tax Credit. Now, just as I don't begrudge the wealthy their success, neither do I begrudge the poorest among us for not contributing to our collective expenses - I appreciate how difficult it can be to exist and raise a family on nominal amounts of money. However, if we wish to assist the lower classes, additional tax cuts are going to have little or no effect. We would be better served to invest in increasing access to and affordability of healthcare, higher education, and retirement savings.
The group that TRULY needs tax breaks is the middle class - those households making $50K to $200K. These are the people who are paying the heaviest amount of taxes as a percentage of their income - most of them earn their living through their labors, therefore they are subject to the progressive tax rates (and in many cases the self-employment tax), and because of their income level, many credits and deductions are not available to them.
I have a lot of respect for Sen. Obama, but he has disappointed me here. He has always impressed me as someone seeking quality solutions to America's problems, but with this tax plan he hasn't come up with anything particularly original, and some of his supposed "big ideas" are going to have little or no value, while the people who need help the most continue to be ignored.
There is nothing noble about socialism or redistribution of wealth. It's theft plain
and simple.
He wants to put a heavier tax burden on those of us that already pay the lion's share
of taxes and have those who pay little pay even less! What's even worse is that it
doesn't even take into consideration regional cost of living expenses. 200k a year in
the Peoples Republic of Maryland isn't the same as 200k a year in a low cost of
living state like Alabama.
If he was at all serious about making the tax code FAIR he'd push for a flat tax
across the board. Same tax percentage for everyone regardless of income.
But that would make him a bad socialist wouldn't it?
What do you mean that the rich are working harder so they deserve their money ... the scam is that they are paying other people lousy wages to work hard for them while they enjoy the fruits of all their workers. Let's not forget that without those workers/employees, He/She might actually have to do the work themselves.
Workers have a vested interest in the success of their employer and will always work best when they also get to bask in the success of the company. Instead, they work hard for nothing to put out a wonderful product, and are rewarded with nothing but contempt.
Can't we stop positioning ourselves to either extreme of center and instead come together with compromises that return us to a society that really takes care of everyone and has a little compassion that sees beyond profits and war?
Rich people work for their money too. How can people think this is fair? This plan is idiotic.
Yeah, do that. We'll all be on welfare.
I'm sick of politicians demonizing wealthy Americans, acting like they didn't do anything to earn their fortunes, and therefore it's acceptable to simply take their money away and give it to other people. And here I was somehow thinking that Obama was a fairly moderate Democrat... please don't vote for this guy!
"WASHINGTON (CNN) – Barack Obama unveiled his tax cut plan Tuesday in Washington. Some would call it a Robin Hood approach..."
Some would say CNN is following FOX.
Ok....so I took the time to read Obama entire economic plan, and now I'm wondering what the hell this so-called "Robin Hood" nonsense is about.
Why can't CNN resist the urge to smear Obama at every instance? There is nothing remotely close to a Robin Hood theme in Obama's economic plan....shame on CNN.
I can hear the republics screaming their tiny little heads off now. Close the loopholes, make the big corporations pay their fare share. Bush the Socialist has been taking from the poor and giving to the rich, this will be a nice reversal of fortune now won't it.
Robin Hood is a fiction, just as is most of the "news coverage" by CNN. In trying to compete with Fox Fake News, CNN has once again provided the right wing noise machine with a cute and entirely inaccurate sound bite rather than offering a reasoned and sensible presentation with a serious intro.
I don't think our tax system should impoverish the rich or enrich the impoverished. But the rich don't play fair. We need an entirely new, simple, progressive tax system with no loopholes or deductions for anyone, period. How about a 25% tax rate for every income over $300,000 a year, progressing precipitously downward so that the rate is 0% for anyone under $75,000? A guy making $50 million would pay $12.5 million in taxes and would be forced to get by on only $37.5 million. I could live with that, couldn't you? Such a plan would probably triple the amount the govt. takes in, with the rich paying most of the bill, which is only fitting.
Obama is making sense as usual. It's as if somebody dropped a talent bomb on the rest of Washington and he was the only one in the bunker that didn't get hit. Everything the dude says resonates... because it's true and its what the vast majority of America has been thinking.
I spent my 300 dollar tax cut in about a week, and now I watch kids go to school without textbooks. Does that make sense?
What really doesn't make sense is that the richest people in this nation get tax cuts they didn't ask for and use the money almost entirely overseas, pulling their money out of our economy.
This is wrong, wrong, wrong. How can we have the costliest war in history, have schools without text books and a healthcare system ranked 46th in the world, beside third world countries, and the highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world, and STILL be giving Paris Hilton a tax break?
Screw that. I'm so totally relieved to find a sane politician for a change. But this isn't Robin Hood economics Obama is talking. It's just common sense, as with most things Obama says.
What is pure highway robbery is what King George and the neocons of Nottingham have done to our country in seven years. They've wrecked us. Sherwood Forrest is a toothpick factory filled with Chinese sweat shop labor. Our bridges are collapsing and the neocons are laughing all the way to the bank. It's an even bigger joke than their idea of "small government, which is really just code for "government that does nothing and takes everything for their golf buddies."
Every time they want a tax refund check in the mail they cry "war on terror" and rack up another 200 billion in oil profit. Meanwhile, good men and women are having limbs blown off and dying and coming back to hospitals that don't even have decent sanitation for crying out loud in buckets!
Barack Obama represents the best hope we have of actually regaining some sense of responsibility and sanity. He has integrity, which appears to be a dirty word in Washington. He doesn't deal with lobbyists, which is also code for "bandits in the woods."
I sincerely don't believe anyone else can change the greedy, corrupt, pig sty that is the Washington beltway but Barack Obama.
Can you smell what The Obama is cookin'?
Yesterday's pig is tomorrow's bacon. Sizzle. Robin Hood is in town with a vengence and he's here to stay.
Watch out, it's BBQ time.
Obama 08. Don't be late. Stop the hate.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is a proven fact that you can't build anything from the top down. I've read these comments (both good and bad) about Senator Obama, and if you who think for a minute that working people making more money is a bad thing wrap your head around this. If working people are making more than they absolutly need to survive they might buy a new car or not loose teir house. They will buy some things to improve there lifestyle improving the economy making the wealthy more money. What I'm trying to say is if you give the poor man a decent paycheck, he will spend it maybe save some back (heaven forbid he could pay for his kids college or daughter's wedding without taking out a second morgage) and evertbody wins, not just a select few. GO OBAMA 08!! Ross in Davenport. Yeah that's in Iowa.
There's a reason you're poor. It's because you aren't too smart, you don't actually work hard, or any number of other reasons that aren't the fault of the government. Nothing will change that. Stop looking for a handout and work harder.
Has anyone ever heard of tax policy that is based on traditional American principles of fairness? Bravo Barak for advocating tax policy that acknowledges the indirect benefits and responsibility of those who inherit wealth yhat was created largely by the efforts of the less fortunate who did not! Wealth promotes greater access to opportunity and tax policy MUST be based on that fact.
I'm not big on this tax plan as I think it is by its very nature, unfair. Why should taxes be based on what we earn? We should be rewarded for what we earn, not punished by means of taxation. A more equitable means of taxation would be to tax based on consumption. The more we purchase, the more we pay in taxes. This would encourage savings and spread the tax burden over the income levels more evenly.
So all you naysayers, what's the alternative? More of the Bush/Cheney tax cuts that benefit only the wealthiest 1 percent? Are we supposed to keep hoping for a little of that "trickle down" that never seems to trickle down?
No matter what, greedy CEOs are still going to take advantage however they can. Tax loopholes, writing off yachts and new luxury cars, outsourcing, etc. And the middle class still gets stuck with the tax bill.
The rich don't pay taxes because they have lawyers and accountants and don't have to. The poor don't pay taxes because they don't have any money. So who does that leave to shoulder everything? Yes, the working poor middle class.
Tax the wealthy. That sits fine with me. They have more money, they can pay more taxes. The alternative is to continue to beat the middle class out of existence, until very rich people and very poor people are that's left.
Go Obama, you're on your way to earning my vote.
Love the ditto-heads sobbing over the plight of the enormously wealthy.
Obama is making some desparate promises with no teeth to them. This country is mortgaged to China. Tax cuts are not the answer. It deepens debt. Take the CEO's of major corporations, cut their future bonus package and return it to the workers. Careful on making promises you can't keep. Though it sounds good it is the same as tax cuts for the wealthy the Bush administratin kneels to.
"Robin Hood" tax plan. Right. Guess that makes Bush's tax policies the "Prince John" tax plan.
The notion that taxation is in some manner equivilent to theft is a favorite right wing extremist theme that the press, and particularly the mindless press that is CNN, have apparently internalized.
It's not theft. Its progressive taxation. Once upon a time, the rich and powerful in this country understood that they had the biggest stake in the society and that ten thousand bucks in taxes means a lot less to a guy making a million a year than it does to a guy making thirty thousand a year. Now, all they do is whine about having to pay any taxes at all and, especially, about the horrible injustice of their heirs having to pay taxes on their inheritances.
For God's sake people, wake up! When Warren Buffet's effective top marginal rate is less than that of the lowest-paid secretary in his office, something has gone badly wrong with our society.
Worse, in ever prior war this country has ever fought, the country's wealthy stepped up and took a hit for the team (and, of course, got a lot of it back in profits from war industries.)
Now, however, we are cutting taxes on rich people and financing it with money borrowed from our most powerful global comptitor and potential enemy. That is absolutely insane.
Rose Hann, London CT,
It does not seem like you read the entire speech. Barack has detailed his plan accordingly and this is a very good proposal. I know you have been frustrated by empty promises before but I believe that Obama is genuine and true. He is not bending towards tax cuts for the rich but tax cuts for the wealthiest. This will relieve the middle class and the poor. Good job Barack! With you as POTUS, America will dare to dream and hope once more!
ooops. I meant he is proposing tax cuts for the middle class and poor.
lavelle:
It's apparent you have all the retorts for everyone's observations. Unfortunately your heart is bleeding all over this thread. You are posturing as if your opinion is the only one that counts. Have you not read about the negative effects of redistibuting wealth? Facts and logic should trump emotion when it comes to picking leaders.
Can I just have a fair flat percentage tax with no loopholes, no shelters etc? Let the rich stay rich, but make the payment fair on a percentage basis. Even if the dollar amount is more from the rich, why should they have a way to cut the percentage to say 15% while I'm stuck paying 30%. My measly 20,000 taxes at 30% may be nothing next to millions at 15% by a billionaire but lets make it even – 20% (or whatever works) across the board no way to lower your percentage.
As a hard worker all my life, (30+ years) I always like to see a new face trying to get the bigger piggies in their starched white sheds. But too often the mice come back with a voracious appetite and do more damage than the pigs. Remember the "Silverado Savings debacle cost the same as the Rodney King riots. Obama gets my vote if he includes a provision that those sustaining themselves on WIC handouts, or section 8 housing, have to take birth control.
And when the corporations layoff tens of thousands of its workers to move their jobs overseas, all us unemployeed marrymen can go live in Sherwood Forest. Except Obamahood, he will still be living in his castle..
In support of Lavelle,
Donald of Wesport CT is probably frustrated since Lavelle is making valid points.His tax plan is well thought out and ceratinly better than any democrat running has put forward.Obama fisr of all could have been a well paid wall steet guy but chose to serve the poor in the South Side of Chicago. He could tell first hand that the people were getting a raw deal from politicians. Now he comes up with a plan that has not even been questioned by experts and the likes of Donald, Rick and Johny RoundRock TX have the gall to trash it. What? You work for CNN now? Wait till the MSM and the Obama-haters get a reality check come January 2008. I betcha! Watch America dare to dream and hope agaian with Obama. I read somewhere that Dean was leading in NH 40-17 in October 2003. I am sure you know what happened. Oh goodie..oh goodie.
I have worked my whole life and I never made more than $65000 per year. I have saved and invested wisely and been frugal in my spending. Consequently, I am now a multi-millionaire. I guess I sort of represent the American dream. Now that I am about to retire, I find it disturbing that many of you want to tax in excess the fruits of my labors. Shame on all of you!
lavelle:
It's apparent you have all the retorts for everyone's observations. Unfortunately your heart is bleeding all over this thread. You are posturing as if your opinion is the only one that counts. Have you not read about the negative effects of redistibuting wealth? Facts and logic should trump emotion when it comes to picking leaders.
Posted By Donald, Westport, CT : September 19, 2007 10:00 am
^^^hey the world doesn’t have to agree or see things my way. I see things from my perspective and what effects me. Now I don’t need any lessons on Economics, Macroeconomics, and Microeconomics. All I know is that the middle class no matter what is hurting. I’m apart of that class, I am trying to purchase a home, I am trying to save and save money for my retirement so I wont have to depend on social security. I have hopes and dreams unlike the rich who have already reached and completed any and every possible they had. Now weather the majority who make over 100,000 a year cares is something else. Why should the middle class be hit with a tax burden and not be given anything in return? So what if it’s the Robin hood approach why should the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I look at my checks and wonder if the president of my company looks at his stub the same way. Probably not so from the guy that is at the bottom of the Totem Pole I applaud Obama for acknowledging us. From your stand point and whatever economic reasons you may know of, that 1% will remain filthy rich while we remain filthy. Just because you make it you deserve a pass while we don’t? That’s the American way I guess.....right? These same tax cuts that Clinton gave during his administration left the country with a surplus isn’t that better then a trillion dollar deficit? That little corny tax refund that Bush gave us when her first stepped into office was just a snack. And now its hard for us to get a meal. Maybe im biased because im not wealthy like yourself but who wouldn’t applaud a tax break when you struggle and those on MTV cribs can make it rain like there’s no tomorrow? Yes Obama please close those loop holes!
Easier said than done. I want to know how he intends to fight the powerful lobby that wants those tax cuts and loopholes for "the rich."
I wish him the best of luck with this plan.
To Ed in Washington, DC:
If you are paying 30% of your $20K income in income taxes, then you have a lousy tax advisor!
This debate is not about stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. It's about fairness and societal equity. We need to change the culture of society and look down upon the rich corporate barons who attempt to minimize their tax liabilities by any means possible. These guilty parties steal from America! Greed will always exist. The rich will always try to pay less no matter how minimal their tax brackets. Instead of anticipating the evil actions that the rich people will pursue to minimize their tax liabilities, and passing laws to counter these actions, the government needs to take control instead of the being controlled. Changing the corporate culture of America is a prime step to this. Passing fair laws with fair intentions is the first step in this transition. The idea that fair taxes steal from the rich and give to the poor is the epitome of this unfortunate ongoing theme that is one of the greatest flaws of mankind. Greed. I support Obama in this initiative.
Lavelle – NY,
Bill Gates will probably pay more in taxes THIS year than you will earn in your life time. How can you in all seriousness expect anyone to believe you will pay more in taxes than Bill Gates?
It's this arrogance and sense of benefit entitlement which is so destructive. What you are clearly advocating is socialism, NOT a fair tax plan which treats all individuals equally.
But keep complaining how the world owes you so much! There will be pandering politicians that enforce your sense of entitlement – namely the democrats.
Posted By Henry Tucker, Ga : September 18, 2007 8:13 pm
^^^Your right he will pay more in taxes then I earn. He also will take in more then I can ever earn in a life time. Yes he earned his money just like I earned my pay check. However I didn’t earn to pay a higher rate on my money then he pays on his. On top of that I’m pretty sure he has more to write off then I can write off. I’m pretty sure he donates more to charity then I donated as well. So with all of that said he doesn’t struggle to pay for high health insurance. He doesn’t have to worry about a rent bill. He doesn’t have to worry about this car going on E. He doesn’t have to worry about the tax that was takin out of his check stub that took away from possible groceries. Yes that’s the American way right there. “Hey; don’t worry put that tax burden on my back so the country can get richer. But those who are receiving these benefits are the rich period point blank. When you have it good why would you want to change. I know the rich don’t like the thought of losing any amount of money. When your used to filet mignon a pork chop is just out of the question!
Obama 08
Posted By Rick : September 18, 2007 8:28 pm
I'm guessing then, by your comments, that you do not take any governmental benefits whatsoever – if you have children, they don't go to public school, right? You didn't go to public school, did you? Social Security? If you're already retired, I'm guessing you just send your check back every month, right? I'm also guessing you don't use public roads, public transportation or any public facility in your neck of the woods, right?
I can say that all Republicans are selfish cads who would sell their own mothers down the road in order to get ahead and would rather see those unable to help themselves jump off a cliff so no has to help them at all. Does that make it true? No. But see how easy it is to make such a broad generalization? You demonize the majority for the misdeeds of the minority – shame on you.
To Ed in Washington, DC:
If you are paying 30% of your $20K income in income taxes, then you have a lousy tax advisor!
Posted By Steven in Charleston, SC : September 19, 2007 11:11 am
^^^If your making 20k you cant afford a tax advisor. so far out of touch its sad!
To Lavelle in Rochester, NY:
You say that a person making $20K a year can't afford a tax advisor. I don't doubt that the $300-$500 a quality advisor would charge is a hefty commitment for someone earning that amount of money. However, if you are paying 30% of your income in taxes (which is $6000.00) and the advisor could show you how to reduce that by half or even more, than certainly that justifies paying the fee. Part of the problem in our nation is that while so many people at the lower- and middle-classes have no problem spending their money on fast food and entertainment, they refuse to spend money on creating a circle of trusted advisors. I understand that a new television or X-Box might be more fun, but investing the same money in some quality guidance will generate a much greater long-term reward.
Mr. Steinhauser, CNN Deputy Political Director...did you really just write that? Did you really just write "Some would call it..."? That is so laughable, the local high school debate team would be snorting their cafeteria milk through their nose were they to read it. 'Some would call it a Robin Hood approach'? Who are these 'some'? What 'some' means, Mr. Steinhauser, is your spin. It's not even close to an attempt at some modicum of objectivity. And you conclude by writing that Obama was 'chastising' executives for 'looking out for themselves rather than helping the middle class.' I doubt it–do you really expect your readers to believe that Obama went to NASDAQ headquarters with the intention of preaching the gospel of selflessness to them, rather than to present public policy ideas? If you weren't in such a prominent position to be able to spread your infantile spin so widely through the CNN Political Ticker, I would have thought you were a C-minus student in need of some after-school tutoring. I would suggest that analysis like this could bring down the good name of CNN, but who am I kidding?
...and I'm not even an Obama supporter.
Dan, there was a guy named Steve Forbes a few years ago who wanted a flat tax. And the first thing they said about the flat tax was that it would "only apply to earned income". So it would only be on people who earned a salary. As we know. the vast majority of wealthy people do not earn a salary. They get paid in stock, stock options, structured settlements, and they earn money through dividends and capital gains on their holdings. The flat tax Forbes wanted exempted dividend and capital gains income, and that was why it was not passed. We would have more taxes on the flat tax than we are now because it did not include income from dividends and capital gains.
But this is what you canexpect to hear whenever anyone brings up a flat tax. And why one will never be passed.
I decry CNN's lame and cowardly quoting of "some would say."
This is either CNN's opinion, or they are quoting another person.
CNN own up to your statement or name the person whose opinion you are quoting!
This is an incredibly lame and dishonest way to frame a comment by CNN.
This is Republican smearing – nothing less.
This comment will never see the light of day on this board but I hope CNN will take note of it anyway.
As a member of the middle class, I do not begrudge the wealthy their earnings. I know that although they may take advantage of the ridiculous tax code we all live under, the bottom line is that it is their money and the government has no right to just take whatever they feel like. I hope that we all remember why there was a revolution in this country to start with...unfair taxation.
I admire the poster who made something out of himself through hard work and disciplined fiscal responsibility. I detest those of the entitlement mentality who think just because someone else has more than they do, part of that belongs to them.
If you're unhappy with things in the middle class, make something out of yourself and you won't have to depend on government to manage your life for you. Otherwise, just quit complaining.
"I'm guessing then, by your comments, that you do not take any governmental benefits whatsoever – if you have children, they don't go to public school, right? You didn't go to public school, did you? Social Security? If you're already retired, I'm guessing you just send your check back every month, right? I'm also guessing you don't use public roads, public transportation or any public facility in your neck of the woods, right?"
1) I did not go to public school
2) I am not old enough to retire, and do not expect Social Security to be around by the time I am. I am paying into a system for other people's retirement that I will never get a dollar out of.
3) I pay state taxes, sales taxes, and taxes on every gallon of gasoline I buy, which are supposed to be used to pay for roads and highways.
4) I do not use public transportation
5) I also do not have kids, yet I pay a school tax, too.
Reatlity? that's what i keep reading. Let's tax you more if you make $200,000, well i have news for you, $200,000 is very middle class in the large cities. I work hard and pay tons of taxes already, have a big mortgage and pay enormous real estate taxes. I don't need more money taken from me and given to people who don't want to work. Want to save money? stop bombing and invading other countries. Put that war money into social security and health care and all these conversations about tax increases go away.
First off, the notion that lowering tax rates has increased revenues is false. Look at any CBO chart from the past forty years. The rate of increase in revenues was higher during the Carter and Clinton years than the Reagan or Bush years. Does this mean that higher taxes equals higher revenues? Not necessarily because there are a lot of factors. But for Republicans to continue to insist that lower taxes equals higher revenues is just plain nonsense.
The wealthy do pay a majority of income taxes, but other taxes that make up a significant part of our budget (Medicare, SS, etc.) are spread out. And this doesn't take into account sales taxes and other 'fees' that we often pay.
No I do not believe we should soak the rich. But I do believe investment income should be taxed at the same rates as regular income. Furthermore this argument that if taxes were raised slightly on the wealthy that they'd leave the country is pure nonsense as well. As has been noted, if the middle class has more cash to spend through lower taxes, then that will pump money into businesses. Furthermore, Obama (and no other candidate for that matter) is suggesting a massive increase. Rather a slight increase to help pay for certain services and to hopefully pay down the deficit.
But what is most hilarious is that the people who espouse 'free markets' are the same people who live in freeloading states that steal money from the national treasury year after year (Alabama, Mississippi, etc.). Remember that while you can hate Hollywood, San Fran, New York...all are cornerstones of the world economy, whereas most of the red states could float off into the Gulf of Mexico and the only thing that would go down is the federal deficit.
I dont know if using the phrase "Robin Hood" is very balanced CNN. Are you turning into Fox News?
What % of each dollar earned do the top 1% pay in taxes each year? The middle class pays about 20%. Does the CEO of Exxon pay 20%?
When one group makes 90% of the money shouldn't they pay 90% of the taxes? Or is that going to make them only be able to buy 25 Hummers this year instead of the 60 they bought last year?
How about this: We give every America a $1000 tax cut. Do you think that the folks making $1,000,000+ a year are going to notice it? I know that the family making $25,000 sure is.
Stay strong. We love you.
Maybe we should just cut taxes for the bottom 90% of earners so they contribute 0% of the total (instead of their current 30%).
If a hyper-wealthy guy earning $200K a year has to fork over 36% to the federal government, we should expect at least something from that tragically poor bottom 90%.
If their own efforts arent addequate to provide revenue for the government, maybe they should just work for the govt 36% of the year. Pick up garbage, clear IEDs, whatever. Would that be fair?
Robinhood is a myth, just like Obama's tax plan and Presidency.
"Some would call it" ??? No, that's what CNN is calling it. Thanks for the editorializing.
Posted By Bill W, Coatesville, PA : September 19, 2007 12:43 pm
I'm glad you were fortunate to be able to afford private school – most can't.
I'm not old enough to retire either and probably won't count on SS for retirement but I'm glad SS is helping my mother and a couple of my other elderly relatives.
I pay those taxes too – and I use the roads and highways to get to work. Don't you?
I live in a city, and while I have public transportation available to me, I walk or, if going distances, drive. But I understand that not everyone has access to a car and must rely on public transportation.
My taxes pay for school too. And even if I didn't have a child, I wouldn't mind as I believe all children have access to an education. I'm sorry you feel differently.
It warms my heart that this country is SO not selfish and truly looks out for one another ... oops, my bad. I must have been dreaming.
I have to concur with the above posters on this, CNN has become very bad about editorializing through the choices it makes in headline titles, graphic overlays, and how it chooses to word items on the broadcast "news ticker" crawl. Furthermore, the shift from fact checking to punditry in modern American journalism has really done nothing but convolute the issues we face as a society so badly that I do not think anybody (conservative or liberal) could ever formulate an informed opinion on anything other than who to vote for on American Idol.
Do you know that the personal savings rate is lower than at any time since before the Great Depression and that wages and salaries are at the lowest share of gross domestic product since 1929? Do you realize that a two-income family today has less disposable income than a one-income family had 30 years ago, and that the stressed-out American people are now forced to work the longest hours of any people in the industrialized world? Millions of workers in our country don’t have any vacation time at all.
Since 2001, the richest 1 percent of Americans haven’t had it so good since the 1920s. According to the latest data, from 2001 to 2005, the top 1 percent of households gained $283 billion of total income—$183,902 per household. Yes, the economy is doing very well for them. On the other hand, the bottom 90 percent lost $272 billion or $2,071 per household.
Donna – Clovis,
Writes, "Bush the Socialist has been taking from the poor and giving to the rich, this will be a nice reversal of fortune now won't it."
Donna – PLEASE demonstrate how Bush has stolen from the poor and given to the rich?
Every government or watchdog-type website dedicated to tracking taxes CLEARLY shows the American "Bills" are being paid by the wealthy – BIG TIME.
The Hoover Institution has tracked and reported the following:
1) In 1980, the individual income tax share paid by the top 1 percent of income earners was 17 percent. By 2004, the tax share for this same group had more than doubled, to 37 percent.
2) The share of income tax paid by the top 5 percent and top 10 percent of income earners has also increased during the same time period.
3) The top 10 percent of income earners earned 39 percent of the pretax income, they paid 71 percent of individual income taxes.
By all means – don't let FACTS detract from you message (Bush stealing from the poor to give to the rich).
Ever notice... the vast majority of the people angry with the "wealthy" are those that don't learn the FACTS of their argument and often are liberals?
"If you're unhappy with things in the middle class, make something out of yourself and you won't have to depend on government to manage your life for you. Otherwise, just quit complaining."
Geez. How simplisitic. Like anybody can just snap their fingers and be a millionaire.
The complant is that the middle class IS working hard – harder than ever. Please see the above posting comparing a 2 income family of today to a one income family of 30 years ago. But the middle class is not getting ahead.
Jobs being outsourced, foreign visa workers, illegal immigrants, CEOs getting millions and the average guy loses his job. Housing unaffordable, price of gas through the roof.
And Bush told everybody on TV awhile back that the answer was more education – people needed to go to college. At a time when people with MASTER'S DEGREES can't get entry level IT jobs.
Oh, and if you want to try to "make something of yourself", don't forget that Bush changed Bankruptcy laws so that of you fail – your debt i snot forgiven. You stil lhave to pay it back. Even though he bankrupted how many businesses? And now the country?
It is interesting to note that (on average) due to tax cuts, loopholes, corporate welfare, and other forms of fiscal dishonesty, the wealthiest 1% of Americans actually pay less taxes than the poorest percentage of Americans.
A progressive income tax (like Mr. Obama's) is a much more practical, ethical, and fiscally sound form of taxation because it does not deny the wealthy the right to be wealthy (25% tax of a billionaires salary still leaves the billionaire with an obscene amount of money) and it does not put pressure on the poor.
You can read more about progressive income tax and American corporativism on my blog, http://lp27.wordpress.com.
I just hacked the DNC website – and found they are broadcasting radio signals that can only be heard by the blind followers – they are instructing them how to turn any forum into a Bush bashing debate(seems to be working) – anyway – the classic "punish the rich" mantra is getting really old – we are a capitalist society – you don't "punish the dream" – Democrats – you only charge your "disenfranchised" base – the rest of the literate people will dismiss your rhetoric....as... well... rhetoric....years ago – Steve Forbes proposed a flat tax....no deductions – no loopholes...and really simple tax code – "you pay 20%" – if you make 13K a year – or 130K – you pay 20% – it was so simple...even a Democrat could follow it....yet....it doesn't give them the satisfaction of "taking from those evil rich" – you are a sad group – although...I am still looking at Obama...he is the best of the Dems pack
Awesome! Now I'll just stay at the bottom if the rich will just give it to me. YAY, I'm so happy to be a moocher!
I don't have to work at all, the government will just steal the money from rich people who worked hard and earned it!
Please OBAMA, if you're president, ALSO RAISE THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX. This way I'll never invest, and I can sit on the bottom of the social hierarchy.
What this comment ignores is that the poor also have to work hard but because they have not been given the same opportunities, have not had the same education that the wealthy can afford, they may lack not only the wealth but also an understanding of how to keep and accumulate wealth.
ARe you kidding Ashley from Calif. (what can you expect?) The poor have ALL of the opportunities to get an education. My son didn't get a dime for college, and not because I am rich, oh no. I am educated, I have a job, I own a home, and I have a husband! So guess what Ashley, I don't qualify for anything because somebody thinks I can well afford to send my kids to college and YOURS TOO. I am a school councelor so I KNOW who gets the funds for college, and it isn't the working folk!
I really like Obama's plan, it gives a tax cut to those of us who could really use a little extra money. To those of you who say that the people on the lower rungs of the economic ladder should just work harder, I really resent that. Though some of the poor people are pretty lazy, most of us DO work really hard for what we can get. Just ask anyone who has to get a second (or third) job, or bust their behind 55 to 60 hours a week(like my father), just to feed their family and pay the rent.
Also to Henry Tucker in GA, your statement that the top 10% pay 67% of the taxes sound unfair on the surface, you must also take into account that that same 10 percent also makes about 90% of the money (or more, I don't know the exact figure). Paying 67% of the money doesn't seem too bad when they have 90% of the money, does it?
In response to this:
There's a reason you're poor. It's because you aren't too smart, you don't actually work hard, or any number of other reasons that aren't the fault of the government. Nothing will change that. Stop looking for a handout and work harder.
Posted By Mike Manning (US Army Stationed Overseas) : September 19, 2007 4:01 am
I am not poor, but can certainly relate to what some go through. I came from nothing, worked my own way through school with some support of scholarships, grants and loans. I have a master's degree, am in Mensa with a 155 IQ. Not everyone who is poor falls into your defined group. Thanks to hard work I have been able to do something with my life. It wasn't easy because I did it all as a single parent, recently divorced, with a dead beat ex, no child support. I believe that I did succeed due to much hard work, but I wouldn't have been able to without specific programs that were in place. I do quite well financially and give to others; as I beleive in the pay it forward mentality. I don't believe in greed and selfishness. It's what corrupts our country and devalues our population.
I respect what the military does for us, but the high tax rate I pay is what helps support it. I am an employee in public education; a path I chose so I could help others strive for their best. Needless to say, it's a path that does not pay what corporate America is used to earning.
since this is over oil make bushes buddies pay for this war after all the are the ones with the tax breaks
"Also to Henry Tucker in GA, your statement that the top 10% pay 67% of the taxes sound unfair on the surface, you must also take into account that that same 10 percent also makes about 90% of the money (or more, I don't know the exact figure). Paying 67% of the money doesn't seem too bad when they have 90% of the money, does it?"
Actually Donald, the top 10% accounts for 40% of the total earnings in the country:
Total reported income: $7,428 Billion
Top 10% income: $2,982 Billion
$50,000 and less income: $2,074 Billion
Top 10% paid $587 Billion in taxes (67%)
$50k or less paid $67 Billion in taxes (7.5%)
Those are the facts released by the Joint Committee on Taxaction (US Govt)
Class warfare, plain and simple. So much for uniting us.
I still don't think you all understand. This isn't "stealing" from the rich, and this does not deny anyone the right to be rich. (What can you do with $90 billion that you can't do with $50 billion?) Keep in mind also how many wealthy people use their money: to buy politicians. This practice, aside from shrinking the income-gap, might also effectively reduce political corruption.
Also, shouldn't wealthy people contribute some of their income to the country that made them wealthy?
I'm tired of reading about the "rich" not paying their share. I worked my way through grad school as a single mother juggling jobs round the clock to get to where I am. I don't make my money through capital gains – I make it through long, hard hours. I also pay 45% of my income in state and federal taxes, and my checks to the IRS wind up being higher than anyone I know. Maybe there are some wealthy people out there taking tax shelters, but I'm not one of them, and I don't think it's fair to make me shoulder even more of the burden. Why is it that these tax estimates of how much people pay are always based on the dishonest rich? What about us hard working "rich" who actually pay our fair share? If Obama wants to eliminate loopholes by which "rich" people are avoiding paying taxes, I'm fine with that, but do that before coming back to those of us who have been shouldering more than our share for many years.
No no, see, you are rich, but you are not *wealthy*. I agree, someone like you has every right to be wealthy. However, super-rich individuals (for example, those who own the major news networks) use their wealth for political purposes. It's one thing if a doctor is making a typical doctor salary or a lawyer is making a typical lawyer salary. But when 1% of the nation has over 40% of the wealth the inequality creates a greater social problem that affects all of us and ultimately undermines the very thing which hard-working people stand for.