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GOD VS. SCIENCE

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and ed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and . "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's ; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that cannot exist as a substantive thing. is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

Okay – I couldn't resist.

One is not ignorant simply because he or she disagrees with you. That would mean Mark Twain, Thomas Jefferson, Leonardo Da Vinci, Albert Einstein, Nicola Tesla, Carl Sagan, Mohattma Ghandi, and many other brilliant people who changed the world were "ignorant". Obviously, they were not, Evelyn. There are many paths to the same wisdom. I wish you well on yours.

That's just the point: you can't prove me wrong. You should not judge me on whether or not you believe I have read the bible or not. As stated above, I have quoted some scriptures and what they mean but obviously you don't understand what they mean so you've twisted those scriptures around. Also, I'm through with this because it is a lose situation with your ignornance. There are plenty other people in the world who need and want to hear God's word before they die that will actually listen and become a saved born again child of god and go to Heaven.

I wish you luck on your journey whether to heaven or hell. God Bless!

Evelyn,

All I did was present direct quotes. I do not see how I have twisted and deceived anything. Perhaps you are just being exposed to other interpretations of the Bible, after a lifetime of assuming the interpretation with which you have been indoctrinated must be the one and only correct interpretation.

I'm highly skeptical that you have actually read the Bible. And, even if you have, I am highly skeptical that you have read it from the perspective of the time in which it was written and in the idioms of that day. The literal interpretations touted by Evangelical Christianity are really less than 100 years old, projecting modern sentiments, selecting passages (such as ignoring the mandate to not eat shrimp or wear more than one type of fabric, but a couple passages away obsessing over the mandate that man should not lay with other men). The problem with the interpretations you present is that they are completely subjective and, I might add, very flimsy.

Also, you are confused why a "non-believer" (even though I regularly have conversations with the actual Jesus Christ) would be bothered with the Bible. In your simple black-and-white worldview, someone couldn't possibly study the Bible and walk away from it knowing it is not true. In your black-and-white worldview, there are believers and non-believers and it is your job to introduce the heathens to the savior. You don't realize how much more educated most "heathens" are than you are when it comes to the Bible and spirituality.

I would go so far as to suggest you have not even explored Native American spirituality, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or any other spiritual path in which enlightenment has been achieved to be sure that yours is the only true way. No, I'm pretty sure that's what you were told and you can't imagine someone you respect as a leader might be ignorant too.

You probably thought the liars and criminals of this Bush administration that steal elections, murder innocent people, and live in a corrupt world of croniism came to do "God's" work as well.

Please do not respond. You say nothing different and I am convinced you have not read the Bible. You have only allowed yourself to be indoctrinated by the very flimsy interpretations of those who have. I will not be checking this page again and obviously you and I are the only ones who do – so please do NOT respond. You have made your point and I don't have time to keep proving you wrong.

Also to Glen: To add to your saying about people not believing God and the bible because of hypocrisy. Well, there are hypocrates whereever you go, even in churches. But that's why Jesus gave each and everyone of us FAITH for. To believe in him and God sent his only son Jesus Christ to die for us and our sins so that we might live eternally in Heaven and not perish in hell. So therefore, people must have faith in God. People have faith in everything else such as their vehicle not breaking down or a family member going through surgery without dieing or etc.

To Glen : You totally twist and deceive everything written in the bible. And for you not to believe it and not to believe God, why do you even try to quote the bible? Non-believers don't read the bible or have anything to do with it. I'm not a pastor or God therefore I can't explain every verse the way it should be taken in context but here are some examples. Regardless, read below:

Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
That means simply to obey your elders and people who are in authority over you such as the government, police, etc. You should obey them just like you should Christ, which obviously you don't do so why even quote this?

1 Corinthians 7:4 "The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife."
This simply means, for those who understand God's will for us, is that when you become married you become ONE IN CHRIST, therefore the woman belongs to the man and the man to the woman. That also goes back to Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become ONE flesh".

As far as the peace, Jesus doesn't make everything easy for us. If that were case, we'd all want everything handed to us and that's not why Jesus died for us. Although things are tough for us, Jesus does not put anything on us that we can not handle.

Again, as far as me being right or wrong about God. If I'm right, then I know I'm going to Heaven instead of hell. If I'm wrong, at least I did what was right instead of not caring and automatically going to hell. You can lead a horse (people) to the water (bible or God) but you can't make them drink (listen or believe).

Oh Evelyn. I was going to leave it alone. But you had to go and call me a liar.

The Bible's support of slavery:

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."
..........Exodus 21:20

"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ...."
..........Ephesians 6:5

"And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating."
..........Luke 12:47

The Bible's directive to murder boys, kidnap virgins, and rape them:

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
..........Numbers 31:17 (Moses)

The Bible's support of pedophilia:
"If a man has sex with a slave girl he is not to be punished. She is a slave."
....Levitcus 19:20

The Bible's directive that women must not speak in church:

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
..........1 Corinthians 14:34

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
..........Timothy 2:11

Women as property and sexual servants for men to whom they are not married:

"For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does..."
..........1 Corinthians 7:4

"...I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun."
..........2 Samuel 12:11

The Bible on The Prince of Peace's efforts to break families apart with fighting:

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law...."
..........Matthew 10:34

or, if you don't believe Matty, try Luke:

"Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law."
..........Luke 12:51

"And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."
..........Luke 22:36

Evelyn, I could go on and on but you get the picture. There are very good reasons why people don't believe your "truth". It is riddled with hypocrisy and absurdity. Christ is real, though, and more incredible than anything we have yet imagined – without judgment and existing only in pure love.

God bless you Evelyn.

To all of the ignorance on here, I'm tired of it all. I can only tell people about God but I can't make them believe it just like the saying "You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make it drink". None of the stuff Glen last posted was even true. As to your assumptions that I'm wrong about God, even if I was wrong, it wouldn't matter then but if I'm right and I did the opposite, then I would be going to hell regardless.

I believed I've learned a valuable lesson from ED and GLEN that you can't argue with ignorance. Trying to say that the word of God is not true is like saying nothing ever written in any book is true. The bottom line is that God doesn't make anyone worship or obey him. That is why we were given free will. However, the choices we make determine whether or not we will go to Heaven to be with God one day. I'm not judging because God will do that on judgement day but based on my assumptions, I believe these two along with a lot of other people, including some of my friends, will go to hell based on their choices and not being saved by Jesus Christ. I know that I'm going to Heaven to be with God but I wish you all a good trip whereever you may go. GOODBYE

Evelyn,

You're not doing much to refute stereotypes of West Virginia. Obviously, you have not been exposed to much thinking beyond your own small, isolated town. You can't say "the truth is the truth" and then submit as your evidence quotes from the Bible. That's not evidence. It's a belief you have that what's been written in the Bible is still true.

First of all, the books chosen to be included in the Bible centuries after Jesus lived were hand selected by church leaders to convey a specific message of adherence the dogma of fear and control that the leaders of that time desired (and still desire today). The decision to exclude Christ's teachings in favor of reincarnation, for example, were excluded because church leaders felt that if people knew that had more than one life to evolve their consciousness, they would not be so compelled to join and financially support the church.

The subsequent translations and reinterpretations over the many centuries have made what wisdom there once was in the Bible irrelevant. For example, in the original text, "virgin" simply meant young. It had nothing to do with lacking sexual experience. When that was translated into English, they used the word virgin. That one word alters the entire fundamental mythology of Christianity as a virgin birth.

I could go on, but you get the picture. The Bible has been used as a tool of control by powerful leaders throughout history. It is still used today. The sooner we move beyond any belief that the message of God exists in any one book, the sooner we will understand Christ's true teachings.

This is all going right over your head, I know. But perhaps someday, either in this life or the next, you will begin to think for yourself and break from the cult of fundamentalism. Then you will find God and Jesus you believe you have found in a book.

I do wish you well in your journey, but you are not open to conversation on this topic. So, neither shall I be any further..

To Glen, Boston, MA: It really doesn't matter what I believe, but the truth is the truth. As far as defending the truth about how to enter Heaven, that is simple. The Bible says you can only enter Heaven by being saved through God's son, Jesus Christ. Clearly it states in John 3:5 "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit" and in John 3:7 "You should not be surprised at my saying 'You must be born again'". So again, you must be saved in order to enter Heaven. Also, you are totally right. God does not force anyone to worship or serve him. That is why he created everyone with a free will. The choice is left up to us but our choice also determines whether or not we will enter Heaven.

Evelyn-you have severe mental disorder and your thought process is defective.If you lived in NY you'd be be locked up in an insane asylum until a religious group agreed to take you in and spare the state your upkeep. Please,for your own good stay where you live lest you lose your freedom. Compared to people like you EVERYONE is a god. So keep to your small world where you are safe and don't abuse your vote with your illness. Good luck. I hope you get to live out your life in ignorance as you wish.

Evelyn, don't EVER call another person whom you do not understand ignorant.

You say I do not believe God is coming back.

The Second Coming of which you speak has already just begun, but it will be a long time before you recognize it because it will not come through one messiah, not through one faction of one religion, but throughout all of humanity.

The perceived physical limitations of humanity will be shattered. The belief – and it is a belief, Evelyn, no matter how much you want one interpretation of a book to hold all the truth – that Jesus ever demanded worship and servitude in order to gain access to "Heaven" will become an increasingly difficult position to defend. Miracles will abound from all walks of life. Prepare yourself by opening your mind beyond your own dogma.

All is One, Evelyn. All is God.

TO Ed, Ellenville, NY: There are no God's running around. There is only one God who reigns in Heaven and his son Jesus Christ in which you can be saved and enter Heaven. Everyone can be good people or follow the ten commandments but that won't get you into Heaven. The only close thing to God, but still isn't God, is when people put other things more important than God. That specific thing, such as alcohol, becomes their God. But will alcohol or anything else get you to Heaven? NO The only way to through God's son, Jesus Christ.

So an atheist that can live up to the ten commandments is god? We have a lot of gods running around! Why is it that believers are the only ones that can't live up to some simple rules of life? I think Tom has hit upon something there. More proof I think that these mental deficients are a burden on our society.

First of all I want to thank Tom from Macoon, GA. I'm so thankfully that there are other people on here who realize what God and his son Jesus Christ is all about. God will be back one day to take all of us that are saved through Jesus Christ to heaven.

To Glen, Boston, MA: I'm truly amazed at how ignorant Lucifer has made you. You really don't belive the truth that God is coming back one day and the only way to get to heaven is to be saved through God's son, Jesus Christ. And by the way, apparently you don't know where true miracles come from. Only God can make the impossible happen. It doesn't just happen. BTW, I'm not forcing any beliefs on anyone. I'm just stating facts. Whether people choose to believe them and become saved through Jesus Christ so that they may enter Heaven is a different story. Regardless, everyone will give account on judgement day and will either enter Heaven's Gates or be cast into Hell. There is no in between.

TO Schier Norwalk, CT: The point is not what I believe. The TRUTH is that no one comes from monkeys or the big bang theory. GOD created everything and everyone just like Tom from GA has stated several times in here. And again, like I stated above, I'm not forcing any beliefs on anyone. I'm just stating facts. Whether you choose to go to Heaven by being saved or to go to Hell is your choice. BTW, if you really are atheist, like most people claim until they are on their death bed afraid of hell, why don't you give me all of your money? Regardless of when it happened, all of our money says "IN GOD WE TRUST". Apparently you don't believe in the miracles that God does, the beautiful world that God has created, or that you only have two choices which are to be saved through God's son, Jesus Christ and enter Heaven on judgement day or to be cast into Hell, so why not just give me your money.

It's obivously a lost cause....faith=ingnorance indeed. You
just REFUSE to acknowledge that all religion is entirely subjective, and in being so, a personal matter. I am an
atheist, and I should not be subjected to the effects of policy decisions being made under the influence of religion...our Israel policy for a start. We should be tending to our own affairs, not following mysticism. And
by the way, "in god we trust" did not
appear on currency denominations until
the mid-20th century, so it has absolutely no connection whatsoever to
the "founding fathers". It is clear that it is the freedom to practice the religion of choice, and absolutely NOT have any particular CHOSEN religion attempt to dictate to the populace as a whole via policy making.

Are you assuming I am immoral, or support immoral activities, because I'm pagan, atheist, or whatever you choose to call me??? I've lost count of the hypocrates I've seen walking out of churches/temples/synagogues etc..I'm not going to stand for policies being set and influenced by faith related mysticisms that have NO basis in absolute FACT…
Posted By r schier norwalk,ct : October 9, 2007 9:12 am

Sir, I’m not assuming anything. It’s a fact mankind itself is immoral and sinful. We were born into it when we came in the world. You have the right to believe however you see fit. I actually agree with you churches/synagogues/temples are full of immoral people. Till the day we die we will live in a world of sin. All of us have fallen short of perfection. Even pastors and preachers. No matter how hard a person tries to live, that person could never be good enough. No one as been. That’s why God sent his son through a virgin birth to live a perfect life for us. Because of our sin He took that upon himself to be a sacrifice for it. Sir if you could go through the rest of the day and not commit one sin, in thought word or deed, I would stand corrected. However you can not. Its impossible. Out of all the imagination you can create in your mind, you can’t think of one sin that’s not listed in God’s commandments. They are perfect and complete. No one can live up to them, but God. He himself came lived in the same world you and I live in, faced every temptation imaginable and did it with out sin. That way He and only He could be a worthy sacrifice. We just receive it as a gift. Just asks us to believe in that sacrifice. How would you feel if you did something extraordinary for someone and they didn’t appreciate it or even believe it? You would be upset. God is the same way. We were made in His image.

When you accept Him, you see things much clearer, He teaches you. Then you can see how we as Christians strive to stand for good and morality. Even when we live in such a world absent from it. We still fail, and try our best, but our fate lies not in how good we can live but in the faith of the ONLY one who lived perfectly for us.

I know many will perish; our purpose is to share this good news with as many as we can. We vote for lawmakers and leaders who can preserve that right. In addition try to the best of their ability to implement standards God has put in place. Standards He calls moral and decent.

Monkeys can read,the earth is only 2000years old,wisdom is not a virtue,can they be any clearer about their mental disability? Despite any and all proof these individuals will march forward to their fates."gods plan" will reward them for dying,sounds like 69 virgins for flying an airplane into a building. Learning disabilities are serious problems that need to be addressed before granting voter status.

Evelyn writes: "Because it clearly says on the back of all money "IN GOD WE TRUST"! I don't believe that would be there if our country was orginally founded and based on God years ago."

"In God We Trust" was added to money over a century after the country was founded. So was "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Also, "God" does not in any way suggest or denote support of one religion.

Eveyln writes: "I also don't believe that if God wasn't the foundation for our country, there wouldn't specifically be a clause in the 1st Amendment that states we have "FREEDOM OF RELIGION". And I repeat again: "GOVERNMENT(STATE) OUT OF RELIGION(CHURCH)" not the other way."

Again, "God" is not a religion. The founding fathers were mostly deists who understood the need for freedom of spiritual exploration.
Giving people the freedom of religion does not denote a government support of any particular relgion. Again, God is. God is not something you believe in or don't. "God" is the life that flows through all. It is scientific as well as spiritual.

Lastly, where is the statement in any of the founding documents "Government out of church" You put that in quotes as if it were a foundation of our country. It is not. If a lie is repeated enough, it becomes the truth.

Richard,

You are right; Christianity is not part of common law. It wasn’t designed to be. I didn’t personally know the founding father nor did you, but I do know ALL authority is given by GOD. He and He alone allows all things to happen, and everything that has happened is no surprise to Him. We don’t and never will understand the mind of God, but it’s His plan. He only allows us to know what we need to know.

It kills me to see people try to find all of God’s mysteries but not accept Him and His love. People try to study so they can argue his existence. But take a second and look around everything you see and hear and smell has all been created by God. No artist could paint a sunset, with out first seeing the one God created.

The vastness of God is beyond comprehension, but for some reason He loves us, and lets us know Him through His witnesses and His Word. He has preserved that for us. He helps us understand it also. First you must know him through His Son Jesus Christ, then many answers you seek to find, I promise you will. God said wisdom can be man’s downfall, often it is. He would rather have us come to him as a child.

As for this country, God has used us to do mighty work. The United States does more missionary work than any country ever. Also our support for the Nation of Israel.

God has blessed this country, even with Godless leadership. I’m not saying GW Bush is perfect, he has made mistakes, and the Republican Party has issues as well, as all parties do. This is God’s plan. We are living in a generation that could see the coming of Christ. Know one knows the day or hour, but He is coming. We all will stand and give account one day. Those who know Jesus will be saved, those who do not, will be punished. That’s very fair, He gave His Son for all our sin. All He asks is we accept that gift and love him for it. To Richard and all other people who post here, could you give your only child’s life for another person, even a stranger, or murderer, or much worse? God did!!!

I thought just like you Richard, till I stop being so wise.

To CNN: please discontinue CENSORING peoples opinons, unless the contain profanity!! Are YOU joining in suppressing FREE SPEECH????? Is reference to Israel TABOO????

"We true christians do know our savior will be coming soon. I can't wait to be in his arms rejoicing in heaven. The sad part is that everyone could be there but they won't open their eyes and hearts and see the truth. THE TRUTH OF GOD WILL SET YOU FREE!"

This is my very point…politics are being influenced by those who want to start a "final" war because it's so-called "Prophecy". This fits in really nice with Israel's intent to dominate and oppress, and as Richard in FL so eloquently stated, is serving to bankrupt the country and send it to ruin. And Tom in Macon, GA: Are you assuming I am immoral, or support immoral activities, because I'm pagan, atheist, or whatever you choose to call me??? I've lost count of the hypocrates I've seen walking out of churches/temples/synagogues etc..I'm not going to stand for policies being set and influenced by faith related mysticisms that have NO basis in absolute FACT…

To Richard: What I meant by you twisting what I had said was that you were making it out like I said people aren't good unless they are christians. That is not what I said. There are good people everywhere regardless if they are christian or not. The question is are they going to get into heaven when our savior comes back? Being saved will get you there. Being a good person, which is what everyone should be, however will not get you to heaven.
And not that I would steal anyone's money but for all who don't believe that our country was based on God or for the one's who still don't believe in God, why don't you give me all of your money. WHY? Because it clearly says on the back of all money "IN GOD WE TRUST"! I don't believe that would be there if our country was orginally founded and based on God years ago. I also don't believe that if God wasn't the foundation for our country, there wouldn't specifically be a clause in the 1st Amendment that states we have "FREEDOM OF RELIGION". And I repeat again: "GOVERNMENT(STATE) OUT OF RELIGION(CHURCH)" not the other way.

"We true christians do know our savior will be coming soon. I can't wait to be in his arms rejoicing in heaven. The sad part is that everyone could be there but they won't open their eyes and hearts and see the truth. THE TRUTH OF GOD WILL SET YOU FREE!"

This is my very point...politics are being influenced by those who want to start a "final" war because it's so-called "Prophecy". This fits in really nice with Israel's intent to dominate and oppress, and as Richard in FL so eloquently stated, is serving to bankrupt the country and send it to ruin. And Tom in Macon, GA: Are you assuming I am immoral, or support immoral activities, because I'm pagan, atheist, or whatever you choose to call me??? I've lost count of the hypocrates I've seen walking out of churches/temples/synagogues etc..I'm not going to stand for policies being set and influenced by faith related mysticisms that have NO basis in absolute FACT...

to evelyn in WV
"Also, how do you think you got here? From the big bang theory or monkeys? I DON'T THINK SO!! "

Your capitalized statement is the KEY POINT: "I" as in "I" "me" and "myself"
DON'T think so. THat is very fine FOR YOU...IT HAS NO PLACE FOR ME, and it should not influence decisions being made THAT AFFECT ME....You can believe all you want...there is now way you could, or should force me to !!

Evelyn -

Your argument is based on flawed logic.

You believe X. You have experienced miracles Y and Z. Therefore, X must be true.

This is a common mistake of many religious adherents. Just because you achieved positive results from a specific belief system does not mean it is the only way to achieve those same results, or greater.

One need only look at the Shamans of Native Americans or the Sufis of Islam or the Bodhisatvas of Buddhism to see the universal power of human potential inherent in many spiritual and non-spiritual paths.

I have personally experienced everything from seeing glowing eyes to shape-shifting humans to actual conversations with the one we know as Christ. He's far greater than any religion has ever imagined him to be, yet never demanded worship or said that through him is the only way.

Those were concepts put into the books that were selected for the Bible centuries after he lived.

I wish you well in your journey, but please stop forcing your belief structure on others. You need that structure for this phase of your growth. Many have already outgrown it.

Are these comments enough to warrant MRI testing for voter registration? We have the technology and the knowledge to rid our nation of this mental illness in our politics. If we don't pursue this in defense of our nation,our children will suffer from these intellectually deficient theocrats. I for one don't want my family members burned at the stake. It's time to act. Universal testing for illness might be a socialist necessity to preserve democracy.

"being ignornant to what happened 2000 years ago when God created this world and everything and everyone in it" – according to Evelyn

Unless you are claiming that God created Adam, Eve, Jesus, dinosaurs, and, retroactively, the Roman Empire, at the same time 2000 years ago, I would like to think that your comment was a typo. I don't think there are ANY scientists or religious leaders who believe that.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion. All I would hope for is that you do some research before making statements. Let's start with the Constitution. That is THE document that defines our nation. It was created over several months by some of our finest minds. They were given the unique opportunity to freely design the best government they could think of. When they got done, these predominantly Christian men designed a document that NEVER ONCE mentions God. God isn't even referenced in the Preamble that lists their objectives. The only references to religion were prohibitions on it. No one could require religious tests to run for office and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". It is without question that these religious men believed that the best government was one that kept religion and government separate. Thomas Jefferson, the guiding force on the Constitution said "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law”. Please look at the Constitution and study history.

I have only one interest and that is in truth. You stated that I "have totally twisted everything I've said." Please give details. If I have said anything false, I want to correct it.

May I proudly state that I score a zero?

From Katherine in KY: "Separation of church and state was originally adopted as a principle to protect the church from being controlled by the government". THANK YOU! This is exactly what it means. Although it is not directly stated, there is a clause called "FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION or FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE which states we have freedom of religion. NOT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO CONTROL RELIGION OR KEEP THE RELIGION OUT OF THE STATE.

THANK YOU TOM, GA: We true christians do know our savior will be coming soon. I can't wait to be in his arms rejoicing in heaven. The sad part is that everyone could be there but they won't open their eyes and hearts and see the truth. THE TRUTH OF GOD WILL SET YOU FREE!

To Richard, Glen, R. Schier, & Jeremy: You have totally twisted everything I've said. There is good people everywhere regardless of your beliefs. Also, how do you think you got here? From the big bang theory or monkeys? I DON'T THINK SO!! Also, none of us is GOD. There is only one God and he reigns in Heaven and will be back one day to take me with him. ARE YOU GOING TO HEAVEN WITH GOD??? Also, I do have proof of my living God who reigns in heaven. Not only is it in the bible, but I've seen it with my own eyes as well. No one can tell me that the miraculous things and miracles that have happened in my life didn't come from GOD! I thank you God that I do know the truth instead of all the worldly myths. I'm not perfect and I don't have every answer but I know my savior is real and is alive today and will take me to heaven one day.

"The good news is your children will have a chance to make that decision for themselves because (we) do live in a free country with democracy."
– - – -
I cannot agree with you more. I hope you raise your children that way.

I also hope you care about your children enough to feel guilty about the huge tax burden your "moral" president has imposed upon them. He is totally unchallenged as the largest debt-generating president in history. Your children will have a higher percentage of their taxes NOT spent on new services like bridges, but just to pay debt than any generation in history.

I also hope that the morals you stress to your children include appreciation and honesty. The freedom we cherish has come about because of the sacrifices made by our brave soldiers. When we think of them and show appreciation, we need to be honest and realize that an estimated 15% of them do not believe in God. Tell your children about them, too. It is your "moral" president who has sent 3,800 Americans to die and 28,000 to be wounded in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Your "moral" president hasn't caught the person who killed 2,900 Americans in our nation, but of course, as he said, "You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you" and "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about (Osama bin Laden)."

I want to have a future left for my children, and want those like yourself to butt out from it….
Posted By r schier norwalk,ct : October 8, 2007 11:30 am

The good news is your children will have a chance to make that decision for themselves because will do live in a free country with democracy. That has come to this country because of the blessings of God. I will not debate you on the existence or the teachings of God. I know what Jesus has done in my life. That point sir, you could never argue.

To the affect we should include in government, I will debate you. To condone and teach immorality through government funded institutions is against my rights as an American tax payer. I elect to vote for someone who will represent what I hold true to the best of their ability. Everyone has a choice, that’s something God gives everyone believer and nonbelievers. Free will.

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
–Excerpt from Article VI, Constitution of the United States

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
–Excerpt from Amendment I, Constitution of the United States

Congress cannot pass laws abridging the free exercise of religion, nor can it establish an official state religion. Religion cannot be used as a criteria to prohibit an individual from holding elected office. Period, that's it. There's not another single reference to religion in the document, and the word "God" does not appear at all.

Any and all claims for removing religion from the public sphere rely on interpretation of part of the 14th Amendment - not on the 1st Amendment or any part of the original text of the Constitution:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

I offer this not to take a position on this issue, but simply to add some actual facts to the discourse. If you're going to claim you know the intentions of the founding fathers, or use the Constitution to back your argument, you should at least know what it actually says.

"Study before you make all those assumptions. You will see all the statements that are being said were foreseen long ago. True Christians rejoice, we know our Savior will be coming soon."
Posted By Tom, Macon, GA

Keep your fairy tale stuff AT HOME. I don't want, or need, anybody else's self-fulfilling prophecy; it has absolutely NO PLACE in a true democracy. This has nothing to do with hate...it has all to do with SENSE....I want to have a future left for my children, and want those like yourself to butt out from it....

This is about as hilarious as the religious monarchy we've been living in, particularly over the last few years....Organized religion is such a SHAM....just another device for the miliary-industrial-congressional complex to reinforce their pathetic indoctranation...

Keep religion out of politics. It's all mythology anywy.

There really are alot of narrow-minded people in the world. I can't believe people can not see past their ignornace. When separation of church and state became, it simply meant: KEEP THE STATE OUT OF THE CHURCH BUT NOT THE CHURCH OUT OF THE STATE. This country was founded on God and over the years people have tried so hard to change that and it's not my place to judge them, but they will be judged accordingly when they face judgement day before God.

Posted By Evelyn, Princeton, WV : October 6, 2007 2:31 pm

Grrrr.... this irritates me. HOW DARE YOU SPEAK OF IGNORANCE!!! Ignorance and faith have practically the same definition... belief in something without proof or knowledge. Also, you are absolutely wrong about the founding of this country. Religion was absolutely intended to stay out of government, as the perversions of that influence could be seen in the British government leading to persecution of other religious believers. Who do you think persecutes religions... other religions of course (aka competition). I also like the bit about "not judging" though you clearly are, which also makes you dishonest. Bravo! I am ashamed I share a country with you... how is that for judgement. Also, I beg you to not vote again... ever.

The more religious someone is the more ignorant he/she must be. It is fine to believe in something (with doubts) but to assert knowledge of the unknowable is ignorant at best and insane at worst. This country has become so afraid of offending the crazy religious fanatical beliefs of a small minority of us that we have lost science in our schools, have museums exhibiting dinosaurs with saddles (because people used to ride them), have a president who doesnt "believe" in evolution and have convinced ourselves that we have a moral God-ly authority over the afairs of other nations. We apparently believe it is alright to have a government in charge of peoples personal relationships and even of peoples reproductive organs in a proportedly free society. What an absolute joke we have become. The nation that produced nearly every great invention in the last 100 years and succeeded in sending a man to the moon is now thought of (rightfully so) as the dumbest "civilized" nation on earth not to mention the greediest.

The lunatics have taken over the crazy house for sure.

I'd like to see a hate'o'meter ranking of these posters,maybe a stupid'o'meter for the mentally deficient. Though, maybe we'd have no one left to laugh at. Stay tuned the refraction of the wings is just starting.

Terry from El Paso

You are correct, good and bad lie in all of mankind, no matter what their religious beliefs are. That is because sin is in every one as well. No denying that. No mater what a person’s title or position is, its still there. I would encourage you to study this for yourself, before you go making assumptions. The good news is, Jesus paid for it on the cross with His Blood. Once you understand that, you will see her post differently.

I do agree the God-O-Meter is not right. Just look at how the candidates stand for things. You will see who is true and who is not. A tree is known by its fruit.

Those of you who mock the Holy Bible on here let me just say. God preserves His Word. Many people have done the same thing, but it has stood thru all, many wars, even. Its still here and will always be.

Study before you make all those assumptions. You will see all the statements that are being said were foreseen long ago. True Christians rejoice, we know our Savior will be coming soon.

Now we expect CNN to put up a:
Athiest-o-Meter
Sin-o-Meter
Gay-o-Meter
Socialist-o-Meter
Communist-o-Meter
Black-o-Meter
Women-o-Meter
Man-o-Meter
Negative-o-Meter
Electable-o-Meter
Bias-o-Meter
Corruption-o-Meter
and my favorite, Hate-o-Meter

I'd respect a pro-life candidate more if he/she demonstrated concern for human life AFTER birth.

I am not impressed by a candidate's harping on his/her faith, and who needs this ridiculous and offensive "meter?" A candidate who talks constantly about his/her faith and what a hot-shot religious person he/she is should draw our cynicism, not our blind support. "By their fruits you shall know them."

Subjective crap.

"if our founding fathers didn't want this to be a christian country, why would our 1st Amendment state "FREEDOM FOR RELIGION"??

--

By the way – this is perhaps the most illogical statement made on this entire list of comments.

Freedom for religion has NOTHING to do with establishing one religion as the only one deemed worthy of that freedom (i.e. a Christian nation).

I think many people hear the word "God" and they automatically project their interpretation of that word upon the context. So when "God" is mentioned in government documents, some presume it means their particular Christian interpretation of God. They never really study the issue, and only parrot what religious and political leaders they trust tell them.

But, as Thomas Jefferson himself so eloquently wrote in a letter:

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."

Case closed. We are all Christians. We are all Pagans. We are all Jews. We are all Muslims. We are all God.

You bless.

I can't believe that news reporter got through that report without cracking up.

What a joke American politics is. A more evolved society would understand that the concept we consider to be "God" is simply an energy that flows through all of life and provides capacities far greater than anything any religion or scientific dogma has concieved. But, people must project their own perceptions on that formless force – be it as a person, a cheerleader for one religion, or a complete absence – and politicians must pander to those projections for votes, thus validating those projections as if this country were founded on one or another of them.

The cycle goes round and round. Silly, silly Americans.

Aaah, Richard from WPB, I'm pretty sure you'll have to read TO her.

"if our founding fathers didn't want this to be a christian country, why would our 1st Amendment state "FREEDOM FOR RELIGION"??
– – -
For those who obviously have not ever read the Constitution, here is what it actually says: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. The quoted words "freedom for religion" do not appear anywhere in the Constitution. References to God also do NOT appear anywhere in the United States Constitution. Obviously, the mostly Christian men who created it, did so INTENTIONALLY as they tried to make the best possible nation.
– – -
"If you build a house, you must a foundation, correct?". Absolutely true. We need a nation built on trust, integrity, honesty, understanding, sympathy, etc. One of the greatest delusions that Christians have is the insane idea that they have some exclusive right to admirable qualities. All of the traits that we feel are needed in people for a good foundation for our country are present in Christians, non-Christian faiths and even atheists. If you believe that only Christians can be good people, then you have no contact with reality.

If it was not a typo error, we may have located the only person in the entire world that actually thinks the world is only 2,000 years. There's not one piece of evidence anywhere that this is true. Read some books!

Correction.........

When I said "Humans and Primates" what I meant was "Humans and Non-Human Primates". Humans are actually a sub-set of the larger group of Primates. My HAA (Heavenly Administrative Assistant) gently pointed that out to me.

Sorry about that kids...

Evelyn, Evelyn, Evelyn.....where do I start?
First of all, your passion is endearing but your logic and facts are, well, illogical and false.
–Please don't try to steal anyone's money because they don't believe as you do. That would be stealing. (read the 10 commandments, also refer to your local laws).
–2000 years ago is when Jesus lived.(Read the Bible to get more information)
According to the Jews, the world was created by Me 6000 years ago.
–The Scientists have determined the Universe to be 15 Billion years old and the Earth about 4 billion years old.(Read a High School Science book for more info)
You did not come from Monkeys as you put it, But Humans and Primates share a common ancestor. That is the correct interpretation of evolution.

Newsflash, for the rest of you, Judgement Day will be moved back another 1000 years to give my slower children a chance to catch up.
Love, GOD

The earth is now only 2000 years old? Wow! I guess those other religions all came from another planet.That's as good as the monkeys reading one.

To Shawnie of Grants Pass, OR: Thank you for realizing the truth of all this. The Separation of Church and State was to KEEP THE GOVERNMENT(STATE) OUT OF THE CHURCH(RELIGION) simply. Our 1st Amendment clearly states that we have "FREEDOM OF RELIGION". Is that not enough for people? Instead the world has tried to change that.

TO David, Encinitas, CA: You have it all wrong. As stated above, that was meant for the GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE CHURCH, not backwards. Also, if our founding fathers didn't want this to be a christian country, why would our 1st Amendment state "FREEDOM FOR RELIGION"?? Our country was founded on GOD. If you build a house, you must a foundation, correct? If you remove that foundation, it will fall, correct? Well, if you removed God, our country's foundation, from our country, our country would also fall, correct? If you don't believe in God, why don't you just give me all of your money because it clearly says on the back "IN GOD WE TRUST". People to need to think about that instead of being ignornant to what happened 2000 years ago when God created this world and everything and everyone in it because I hate to tell you, but you sure didn't come from monkeys.

aah kids...I did an extensive field study to see if this little gadget works (yes, I had time, I created the world in six days). It's been giving too many faulty readings. All it does is measure how many times people mention my name,and doesn't really measure how well they uphold my rules.
You wouldn't believe the mess we have at the Pearly Gates. St Peter decided to rely on it to expedite the process of admission into Heaven. We now have the task of removing the people who got in under faulty readings. And be prepared for a long wait at the Gates because we are going back to the question and answer method.
On a good note....Lucifer loves it.

For those of you who cannot think rationally or live without your elixir of delusion,there's now an MRI scan to rid our politics of your ill-informed vote.Domenici is just the first of many to come.Most religious people while suffering some form of religious interference in their thinking,can seperate out bigotry from faith. These are the only ones that deserve to vote. Anyone that would degrade our nation with theocratic ideals is not worthy of our country,nor of their faith. Rudy- good job! Let's just ignore the theocrats,they'll disappear through obsolesence.

The words of the founding fathers do not support the claim that many here make, that America was born of faith. Several founders were self-described deists, and were at times patronizing of christianity in particular. These men were rationalists, not mystics, and certainly not evangelical christians. Do your research.

Here's a link to get you started:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_founders.html

Thank you, Theresa Fleming, for your thoughtful, articulate, and obviously sincere post.

The best Christians are among the best people in our nation. I was raised in a devout Christian family (this was back in the fifties), and the good men and women who attended our church were honest, sweet, and nurturing people for the most part, though they were just plain working people with no advanced education. I would have trusted my wallet and my diary with any of them for safekeeping for any amount of time, and both items would have been returned to me unopened when I asked for them.

It was a shock for the congregation to learn that our preacher of fifteen years had redirected hundreds of thousands of dollars from the church collection plates to unknown destinations. Also, the luxurious parsonage that the church had paid for turned out, to everyone's surprise, to be his private property. He left the church to retire very comfortably.

This is the problem. The good people like Theresa Fleming love their God, their families, and their country. A large (perhaps larger) number of Christians are not so sweet and not so friendly, though they quote the same verses.

Christianity is a polytheistic religion. Christians, despite their denials, worship many deities – all named God. Its like knowing many men named John Smith: some of them are good men, some of them are scum, and some of them are nitwits – but they are all John Smith. The same verses mean many very different things to different Christians, and any two Christians can provide at least four interpretations of the same verse.

The very best Christians are in the pews. Christian leadership, I assert, is corrupt, often decadent, and unworthy of their followers for the most part. The best Christians, and I suspect Theresa is representative of this group, are naive and trusting. They believe that their leaders are as good as they are. There are none so blind as good people.

The leadership of the religious right always stands for policies that result in less freedom of action, less freedom of thought, greater governmental control of personal behavior, opposition to scientific facts that they find inconvenient, and a denial that any belief but their own is legitimate.

If only all Christians worshiped the same God, but they don't. Some of those Gods are pretty scary.

There's just one problem with this... if everyone accepts this "Beliefnet" as an authority on which candidates are guided by faith in God, the people who run this website will have what I believe is too much power to influence peoples opinions.
That being said, it's great that there are some people who are willing to state the fact that religion is an essential part of our society, and that a candidate needs to have faith in God and Christ in order to be a truly righteous leader... even if that means being - gasp!– "politically incorrect."

Separation of church and state was originally adopted as a principle to protect the church from being controlled by the government.

(referring to King Henry the Eight's efforts to rule the Catholic Church, then forcing the people to depart from it and accept "The King's Church).

The original immigrants of the country came fleeing from religious persecution.

In a country of at least 313 religions in the US, each with a different level of power and number of members.

The smaller the religion the more likely they could be unfairly treated by the government.

There is no reason for any candidate not to express their belief system, on the contrary, it is their right.

If you feel their belief system does not support your own, by all means show your opinion with your vote.

But, you do not have the right to silence them nor to expect the government to violate their fifth amendment rights just because they are presidential candidates.

Separation of church and state in the United States – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Katherine

Wow! A God-o-Meter. Why didn't I think of that. I'm going to bring one to Judgement Day. That'll sure speed things up.

Evelyn from WV, you got it exactly right. The constitution is written to keep the state out of religion, not ban religion from our lives and government. And it has been twisted around and people get indignant over a supposed infraction that does not exist. God speed.

Why The Faith & Values of Presidential & Congressional Candidates Matters…

Family, faith and freedom are the foundation upon which this country has been built and they are the reasons for its enduring success. It is these core beliefs that have become the very heart of the American spirit. And it is these beliefs and values, along with the courageous service and sacrifice of so many, that has made America the kind of country that millions all over the world wish to come to, and millions thank God every day to be a part of.

Having the courage and taking time to honor God’s place in our country and our country’s history doesn’t take away from the fact that we also care deeply about other important issues such as national security, the economy, education, health care and social security. Throughout our country's history, we have faced many such challenges, but because our country has been built upon a foundation of faith, family, and freedom; and blessed with people who care far more about the welfare of others than they do for themselves, we have always managed to find solutions to the challenges that we face. And that's why, if we hope to find solutions to the challenges that we face both today and in the future, we must work together to preserve and protect the values and traditions that have served us so well in the past.

As for those who would remove God from our Pledge of Allegiance and from our country and our country’s history. Although there are a few people who would like to remove God from every facet of our society, the vast majority of Americans do believe in God. God has always been a part of our country, and our country's history and culture.

God is in the Declaration of Independence, The Star Spangled Banner, The Gettysburg Address, and on every single dollar bill.

God was there on the day so many gave their lives fighting so that we might be free and He was there the day the Declaration of Independence was signed.

God was there the day our boys stormed the beaches of Normandy and He was there the day the Twin Towers came down.

Without a doubt, our country has seen some very difficult times, and yet we have always been able to find a way to stand together in times of need, as one people, “One Nation Under God”, to meet the challenges that we faced.

And what has always brought Americans together, what has given us the courage and strength to face the tough times and the terrible tragedies that sometimes occur in our world, is Faith.

Faith in God, Faith in Each Other, Faith in the Values and Traditions that have so well stood the test of time. And that’s exactly why, as Moms, we do feel that the faith and character of Presidential and Congressional candidates matter. And, in fact, it matters more than any other issue.

For if a man or women wishes to lead this nation, they must first be able to show the American people that they understand and support the American values and traditions that have for so long stood the test of time and that they are as committed as we are to ensuring that America remains what it has always been-"the land of the free and home of the brave".

-Theresa Fleming, Moms For America

I still don't understand why people still believe in such rubbish. In an ideal America, religion would have no part in American Politics or the campaign process. If the Church gets more power, I can see the bed time for Democracy.

For Anyone intrested...
Check out the free movie on google. Zeitgeist.

This brings us to the question...Which pagan "God" do you worship? or is it the sun or stars?

Thanks but no thanks Jesus (or Muhammad, for the matter)... stay out of this one. I can wait for the Age of Aquarius for the next messiah.

Freedom of Religion does not necessarily mean freedom. If anything the exact opposite.

I could be wrong about all of this. I may have already bought my ticket for the Highway to Hell. But sure as un-hell, i'll be bringing the Dark Lord a six-pack, some heavy metal music(we all know how he loves the mind-bending guitar solos), and perhaps some illegal fireworks and Schedule One Drugs(courtsey of our favorite/current President). Im sure he would like that....

Oh, thats right! THERE IS NO SUCH THING. selah

If someone's mind is so tiny that the best they can do is to make childish fun of someone's name, it's doubtful that such a person could handle any truth. It is disgraceful for someone to make moronic comments without any effort to look at truth. ANYONE who has even a minimal interest in honesty should look at facts before advertizing their lack of intelligence. Apparently there was ONE person who didn't get the FACTS that claims about Barack Obama being Islamic were invented by liars. CHECK facts before looking so dumb.

josh........you are an idiot,and your voting rights have been revoked due to chronic stupidity.

All the canditates have a firm belief in the God of our forefathers except for the candidate for the Nation of Islam, Barack (Saddam) Hussein Obama (Bin Laden).

Evelyn from WV:

I'll bite. You've got your argument backwards. The founders clearly stated that religion, and government, were to be separate. That is, no church in state, and no government in church. This is not a christian country, nor is it jewish, muslim or hindu. If you read Jefferson's writings, you'll find he was more a rationalist than a christian. While other founding fathers were christians, the majority voted to keep religion away from government. The "christianization" of America did not really start until the 1950s. Hopefully, that chapter is coming to a close. We need to honor the ideals of our founders and keep religion out of our government.

For a minute there I thought I was watching the John Stewart show or "The Colbert" report! Or maybe Saturday Night Live! This is simply beyond belief!!!

MIKE from Dallas..I said that some people want to know everything about a candidate before they make a decision. I am not smarter than other people nor would I ever want to be. As far as that cartoon is concerned that's all everybody talks about. Why don't you go find something better to do than annoy me about cartoons. Futhermore someone else said to leave it up so go bother him.

DearCNN:
The really depressing thing about this story is that it is a story at all! The truth is, we have so many voters in America that believe a choice for a presidential election (and to go one step further, how we evaluate everybody in our society) comes down to a belief that there is this huge struggle between "moral" and "immoral" people. The actual truth is, most of us are moral in our feelings about decency, kindness, and an appreciation of our fellow Americans even though we do not all think exactly alike on every issue. To misquote Forrest Gump: "Religious is as religious does" It's time to let these people know that religion is not just another tool to hate people! How can we educate our voters to start being concerned with what is really important in a leader, namely intelligence, education, an inate caring for people, and the ability to deal with domestic and foreign policy that can only be handled by our best and brightest. Message to you self-appointed "moral" watchdogs: Get over this 24-7 search for people you think are not religious enough, moral enough, not fit to live in our society enough! There are people out there that would see us all dead... Almost all of us are basically good people, so lets start using our intelligence and solidarity to protect ourselves and be the world leader that we deserve to be!

.."I do not need a cartoon to make a decision. I certainly can think for myself. The cartoon may be helpful to some people who can not make decisions without getting every little fact."

Laurinda,
What makes you think other people are less intelligent than you are and can't inform themselves through diverse resources so they should be informed through some whacky cartoon somebody created with no reliable way of establishing it's accuracy?

So you think there should be one class of people who should continue to make well informed decisiond and another lazy class that needs to be fed low quality pre packaged junk like this cartoon?

Give me a break!

I repeat my plea!
CNN please take this insulting cartoon down! Show some respect!

Here we go again God, Jesus, God. When can we start focusing on the real things. The issues,war in Iraq, and the poor in this country. No instead we have to rate political leaders on there religuos beliefs. Look not everyone cares about religion and doesn't want some group of believers forcing their beliefs on us through the laws. Lets leave faith completely out of politics, and start taking care of our problems.
The Spokesman

Mike from Dallas..I do not need a cartoon to make a decision. I certainly can think for myself. The cartoon may be helpful to some people who can not make decisions without getting every little fact. I am a free spirit and I hope that you learned in school that TEXAS was not part of the thirteen colonies!

To Terry El Paso TX,
that was so accurate and refreshing. As my son puts it, people are "zoned" for a particular religion and generally do not pick their beliefs. Please start a Voters Education Group to help people process information.
When candidates mention their faith he or she is bound to offend alot of people who do not beleive in their particular application. As far as the God-o-Meter, well I can't really think of anyone who wouldn't be insulted.
Bad, BAD, choice for a news story.

If need a clue as to why 'merica is so dysfunctional, consider the impact of the phonies who are manipulating crosses and flags.

Wow. That's great. The graphic would be a great overlay for my kid's "Whack a Mole" game. There's just no way to take this seriously...well...except when one considers that someone thinks this is serious enough to garner some attention as a tool for evaluating a presidential candidate.

Let's see, if we can get Fred Thompson to sing "God God God God...God God God God...God God God God God God God God" to the tune of that cat food song, will he win?

There really are alot of narrow-minded people in the world. I can't believe people can not see past their ignornace. When separation of church and state became, it simply meant: KEEP THE STATE OUT OF THE CHURCH BUT NOT THE CHURCH OUT OF THE STATE. This country was founded on God and over the years people have tried so hard to change that and it's not my place to judge them, but they will be judged accordingly when they face judgement day before God.

John F. Kennedy was a man of strong faith but he didn't bludgeon people over the head with it.

Religion is a substitute for substance in politics. These hacks are no different from the pharisees. I'd much rather see these people showing their faith through good works than bludgeoning voters over the head with it.

"God this, God that." Yeah, we get it. Now what are you going to do about our national security? Healthcare? Tax reform?

You hear more about God than about issues these days.

I would rather they have a "position-0-meter" or a "truth-0-meter" to determine what peoples positions are.

Tired of this worn out BS, where BOTH sides start talking about faith (the Democrats do it also sheep).

I make no decisions based on religion, NONE.

I do get mad as hell when losers who worship nothing feel it is open season on all Christians just to make their point.

If you want to worship a "gerbil" no problem here, but don't bash my religion when you can't make a simple lucid argument.

"I think it should be left up. Alot of undecided voters can learn from it."

Laurinda,

Can't you read and make decisions? Do you need a CARTOON? How do you even know this cartoon is accurate. You want ready made cartoon just like a ready made burger to make one of the most important decisions? How sad?

As a person of faith I believe it is very important to express your faith in everyday life, ONLY if you really believe in it. I do think politicians use God as a means of getting a vote which is very very wrong and they will answer for it one day. As for the separation of church and state, there is no such thing.

There are 24 world religions that have more than a half-million adherents, and most of them have a significant representation in the USA. Most of us did not choose our religion; we simply inherited it. Most Americans inherited some flavor of Christianity, of which there are 80 denominations containing more than a million believers, and most of them have significant representation in the USA ( http://www.midasjones.com/html/the_gospel_truth.htm ).

Of these 104 different religious groups, the largest is Christianity (31% of the human race), followed by Islam (19%). The third largest "religious" group (16%) consists on non-religious people: agnostics, atheists, secular people who do not consider religion to be particularly important, and people who do not think about religion at all. The largest religious group is Roman Catholicism, whose believers are about 16% of the human race.

Therefore, if you are a Catholic you believe that 84% of the human race has chosen the wrong choice. If you belong to any other religious group, then you believe that an even greater percentage of the human race is lost in error and an even smaller percentage of humanity agrees with you.

Every religious belief is merely a splinter group of humanity. And, as we all know, members of each group do not all agree with each other. For every Muslim who calls for a jihad, there is another Muslim who claims that the first Muslim's belief is contrary to "true" Islam. According to surveys, 20% of Christians believe in reincarnation, though 80% do not. Many Buddhists believe in reincarnation, but many Buddhists are atheists who do not believe in the soul. Many evangelistic Christians believe that the Pope isn't a "true" Christian, and some evangelistic orphanages will not place an orphan in a Catholic home. The Pope, on the other hand, says that Christians who are not Catholics have alienated themselves from the true church, though he forgives them and welcomes them back into the fold. If any five Baptists form a church, after a time two of them will split off to form another church because of the doctrinal errors of the three.

Bottom line: we live in a polytheistic world. Humanity believes in many gods. The scientific, secular world view is the only one we can all agree on, and it is the only perspective that government can take. Otherwise, some splinter religious group is imposing its beliefs on the great majority of us (because all religions are splinter groups).

"You believe that I am the puppet of Satan and I believe that you will probably be reincarnated as a garden snail. I believe that you should spend more time meditating and fasting. You believe that I should attend your tabernacle services four times a week and give one-tenth of my gross (not net) income to your local holy man. Each of us believes that his particular truth is obviously correct and that the other’s is fundamentally flawed. A statistician might point out that the odds are that both of us are wrong. He might say the odds are at least seven out of ten that a particular individual will not be born into or choose the most perfect of all religions. If you believe in statistics, you have to agree that it is probable that both you and I have chosen an inferior path and rejected the True Way." – from MidasJones.com

I kind of knew McCain would do well after reading this:

McCain Pushes To Put Jesus On Dollar Bill
http://www.crystalair.com/content.php?id=13200710005

I don't think we need policians to preach about God. Why can't they stick to the real issues?

God-o-meter? What a god-awful level our politics has sunk to.

Religion has no place in politics. Separation of church and state at all costs.

Let me respectfully repeat my plea. Take this cartoon down.

You are assuming we are not intelligent enough to make our own analysis the only way we can understand the issue is looking at a cartoon.

How desrespectful!

The media continues to associate religion and politics. No one should vote for someone because they are religious or are not religious. People need to wake up and realize that politicians that are especially religious are just using that because they think it allows them to control the dumb masses, and actually have no respect for it at all. We need to elect someone that will work for us, not use us.

I think it should be left up. Alot of undecided voters can learn from it.

That first person said it best.

"There is something sick about religion and politics in America, and we've been paying dearly for it."

So true. Ditch the God-O-Meter and create a Servethepeople-O-Meter.

I take the comments that the candidates make regarding their religious faith and religious convictions about as seriously as I do their promises on what they will do when they are elected to office.

These characters will say and do anything, and for them to quote religion is hypocritical to the max.

I like the meter, politicians hide their agenda's in religion. What ever happened to "seperation of god and state"?

Insulting? Yes it is insulting that our nation has been subverted by theocratic radicals that seek to divide and conquer our secular democracy. Yes it is insulting that religious organizations,in broad daylight,have abused their freedom to enslave through the use of brutal brainwashing techniques our populace to achieve an end that is so obviously self-defeating. An insult to our intelligence? No, more like an apt assessment of our country's lack there-of. Keep the God-o-meter up CNN! The new age of enlightenment is at hand.

I'd like to keep track and then vote for the least Godly candidate. This religion thing has got way out of hand.

'K, that's it....Pinky and the Brain for President and Vice President, Marvin the Martian for Secretary of State, Deputy Dawg for Attorney General and Henry the Chicken Hawk for Head of Homeland Security.

We already have a believer in the White House whose done God awful job. Why would we want another? Give me an intelligent atheist over a moronic believer any day.

Personally, I have a great deal of respect for a candidate that talks often about faith. Regardless of religious convictions, faith is an ideal that is fundamental to the nature of this country and the world, as well as to the future. We must all have faith in something, regardless of religion.

read Christopher Hitchens book "God is not great" More perversion, death, murder and loss of individual freedoms are due to the extreme beliefs in "God" professed by the extremes of all sides...the right wing fundementalists to the Islamic Jihadists. They have no concept of God and what faith, hope, charity, and forgiveness mean.

This is supposedly a religiously tolerant nation, so why exactly is religion playing a role in the 2008 elections? Plus, doesn't the constitution say to keep affairs of religion and affairs of the state separate?

We all need to remember that according to the Constitution, the church and state are separate and "the church" has no business whatsoever in politics. So I, as an American, find this highly offensive. Religious ideologies, Christian ones in particular, have become a powerful force in America. Not coincidentally, we have the worst president in the history of our country. I am proud to be American but am ashamed of our president and his Evangelically clouded judgement. The fact that such articles can even be published in the "news" just makes me remember how twisted we've become and how far we've strayed from our original values.

I agree, please do not include this in the political ticker . It's not funny and it's insulting in my opinion.

I still have no clue what most of these candidates claim they would do, and whether their campaign promises could be met, all things CNN should be spending a lot more time researching and reporting, and this is what you spend your time on? Truly sad.

You can always measure the decline of a nation by the degree of its superstition. In a time when science, reality, and humanism should guide our nations actions it's a shame to see that religious fundementalism continues to hold such power.

When a candidate mentions God it means nothing to me. The question is, does the candidate have and display a true internal revelation of the Creator God and His son Jesus Christ. I don't believe that I am the judge of that, but I look to see if I can see it in their life.

The other question is, do their ideas promote True Christian Freedom?

May God give us a man who has more than words of faith, but who has a true understanding of the freedom that God meant for all men and women. This is the kind of Freedom that our Founding Fathers longed for.

ThirstyJon
freedomthirst.com

It is this kind of thinking that has given us probably the worst president in the history of the United States. Bush is pro-life, for instance, but that doesn't mean a thing when that commitment ends at birth.

I believe our President should be somewhat selected based on their religion. Regardless of argument, our originally constitution and country was based upon God and it should still be that way today. The separation of church and state was not to take God out of the constitution or country. It was simply to keep the state out of the church but NOT to keep the church out of the state like people have tried to twist it.

The higher a candidate ranks on the "God-O-Meter," the less respect they should get. Keep your Bronze Age delusions to yourselves.

Insulting?

It's hilarious, and shows how badly politics tries to play games and manipulate in order to attract attention. Both sides blatantly play to their constituents no matter what they believe.

McCain is a zealot now? Edwards is gay-friendly because he says so, and not a homophobe because he acted like one for all of 2004? You seem to be basing this test on the last month. Wouldn’t it be more meaningful to look at their careers rather than recent statements and primary posturing?

It is truly amazing
that none of you see what is really going on. This blindness of our
populous is really the problem with America. You actually believe
that one of these candidates is different from another and that the
two parties stand for different principles. Don't you see that the
same people have been in power for decades and the changing of
control in congress from one party to another is mere theatrics. If
Hillary is elected, either a Clinton or a Bush will have been in the
presidency for a minimum of 20 years!
Many
senators started back in the 1970's and keep getting re-elected. If
you want our country back YOU
have to stop putting the same people in power, remove the career
politicians, introduce term limits on senators and sponsor true
statesmen. Otherwise, the agenda of the status quo will continue as
it has for the past 75 years. Learn your history people and stop
repeating your mistakes...I beg this of you. Oh, and don't forget to
wear your flag pin!

Is not how often politicians discuss faith on the campaign trail just blatant sychophancy? Consider what the Tao Te Ching says: "Those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know."

Hilarious...

This is at best SILLY at worst INSULTING to our intelligence.

Please show us some respect.TAKE IT DOWN!!

PLEASE!

Oh God...

Jesus, (or that being that Mitt believes lives on the planet Kabob). would be rolling his eyes at this.

There is something sick about religion and politics in America, and we've been paying dearly for it.