AJ of San Antonio - don't be mislead. Here is the complete objective definition of "Elohim", not a subjective definition to meet one's religious agenda:

Elohim is the common name for God. It is a plural form, but "The usage of the language gives no support to the supposition that we have in the plural form Elohim, applied to the God of Israel, the remains of an early polytheism, or at least a combination with the higher spiritual beings" (Kautzsch).

According to Renan (Histoire du peuple d'Israel, I, p. 30) the Semites believed that the world is surrounded, penetrated, and governed by the Elohim, myriads of active beings, analogous to the spirits of the savages, alive, but somehow inseparable from one another, not even distinguished by their proper names as the gods of the Aryans, so that they can be considered as a confused totality. Marti (Geschichte der israelitischen Religion, p. 26), too, finds in Elohim a trace of the original Semitic polydemonism; he maintains that the word signified the sum of the divine beings that inhabited any given place. Baethgen (op. cit., p. 287), F.C. Baur (Symbolik und Mythologie, I, 304), and Hellmuth-Zimmermann (Elohim, Berlin, 1900) make Elohim an expression of power, grandeur, and totality. Lagrange (op. cit., p. 78) urges against these views that even the Semitic races need distinct units before they have a sum, and distinct parts before that arrive at a totality. Moreover, the name El is prior to Elohim (op. cit., p. 77 sq.) and El is both a proper and a common name of God. Originally it was either a proper name and has become a common name, or it was a common name has become a proper name. In either case, El, and, therefore, also its derivative form Elohim, must have denoted the one true God. This inference becomes clear after a little reflection. If El was, at first, the proper name of a false god, it could not become the common name of a false god, it could not become the common name for deity any more than Jupiter or Juno could; and if it was, at first, the common name for deity, it could become the proper name only of that God who combined in him all the attributes of deity, who was the one true God. This does not imply that all the Semitic races had from the beginning a clear concept of God's unit and Divine attributes, though all had originally the Divine name El.

Reference:

VIGOUROUX in Dict. de la Bible, s.v.; KNABENBAUER, Lexicon Biblicum (Paris, 1907), II, 63; KAUTZSCH in Encyclopaedia Biblica (New York, 1902), III, 3323 sq.; LAGRANGE, Etudes sur les religions semitiques (Paris, 1905), 19, 71, 77 sqq.

Do you need a tissue now?

Hey Todd in LV,

Quit being such a wimp. There is nothing wrong with debate. If you are unaware, it is called Freedom of Speech.

Even the Mormon apologists have their opportunity to defend their religion. So pull up your panties and get back in the debate.

Todd in LV -

I agree with your statements. I too think people should exercise tolerance. However, I think those who have posted messages that oppose Mr. Romney's faith are expressing that they will not vote for a person because of his or her belief.

I think most people vote for a person because they share the candidates beliefs.

With that said, all sides should be heard on this debate…

AJ of San Antonio
Yes Jesus is God but he is only the God of this earth not Elohim who is the God of the Universe. Jesus is also known as Jehovah in the Old Testement
before he was born Jesus Christ in the flesh. And yes, He was a spirit God when he was Jehovah a fact most Jewish people failed to recognize even though they were told he would be coming. Sacrifices by the Isreali people were in similitude of his future sacrifice on the cross.

I have no issues with people who question Romneys "Flip-Flopping" stances and won't vote for him on that. But those that will not Vote for him because he is of a certain faith, come on now, you are the same that would not Vote for Obama besause he is Black, and would not vote on Hilary because she is a woman, or would not vote for Liberman because he is Jewish.
I believe you all that fit this type to be uneducated, easily influenced, racist, bigotted, hateful, spiteful, unhappy people that only wish others to feel as unhappy, lost, lonely, and unforgiving as yourselves. I have not decided whom I will vote for, but I know my decision will not be based on the Race, Religion, or Gender of any candidate. I enjoy reading the well educated, sincere comments on these Posts. I enjoy the different views of others, but it is easy to pick out those that are uninformed, and ignorant, and disregard them as the described above.

Shawnie, please help me understand more. If the Lamanites were cursed, and the curse is relevant via dark skin, then all native American Indians are "cursed"?

As I read in the preface of the same Book of Mormon, the Lamanites are the ancestors of the American Indian. As we all know American Indians are dark skinned - so according to the Book of Mormon all American Indians are a cursed people?

Thanks - Glenn

To Glenn in Provo, I would say no, it does not mean all "dark skinned people" are cursed, it means that individual people or village was cursed. Although I try not to make a habit of putting limits on what God can and cannot do…guess he could curse whomever he chooses, whenever he chooses.

Romney (at least currently) has a solid stand on important conservative social issues. However, he has altered his stance from previously held non-conservative views. Much of his current popularity is due to a huge fund-raising machine and personal wealth. He attempts to pander to conservative Christian voters by allowing his constituents to make the FALSE CLAIM that he is also a Christian. Although I am a Christian, I believe it is wrong according to our constitution to hold his religious beliefs against him. But is is ALSO wrong to allow his FALSE CLAIMS of Christianity to continue. Jesus also has a place in the Muslim faith but they do not claim to be Christians. Romney is a good man, but not the best candidate for me or many Christian conservatives (if beliefs are the issue). The best candidate for me, Christian conservatives, and everyone is someone who believes, as TRUE Christians do, that you don't hold a persons beliefs against them, or persecute them for their beliefs. It's someone who gives equal treatment to all, and gives love to all people of all religions. The better candidate…the BEST candidate is MIKE HUCKABEE.

You bible-thumpers gotta real problem, don't you?

I think he should support Hillary Clinton.

Its not that Mormonism is a cult that is objectionable per se it is that it is such a silly cult established by such a shallow con man based on so many ridiculous ideas most of whom contradict the systematic theology of the Christian Church. (FYI I have no personal bias in this as I have a masters in theology am not a Christian and am the direct descendent of JM Grant the first mayor of Salt Lake City and HJ Grant the second longest serving President of the LDS)

to be quite honest, the only way a true christian can be true to his/her faith is to not vote in the 2008 presidential elections. which is what i plan to do. because no one contender embodies all of the christian values and beliefs, to vote for any one would mean your sacrificing your faith to a certain extent. you can't say "yeah they're anti-abortion but pro-homosexual and pro-euthanasia". to do so would be hypocrisy of your faith. i call upon all fellow christians to avoid the pitfalls of politics that may lead to a compromise of your principles and to let the heathens do their thing. especially all these "conservative christian evangelicals". the ultimate in hypocrisy and false-faith.

Southern Baptists are not going to support a mormon. They believe Mormonism is a cult and that mormons are going to hell. I know- I grew up in a Southern Baptist church. If you don't believe me, ask James Dobson.

I do not see this as being a setback for Mitt. Many Americans are still learning about the candidates and have yet to make up thier minds. To state that you would not vote for someone because of thier religous affiliation is narrow minded. If your really planning on voting, it is in your own best interest to educate yourself on all of the candidates before hand. This way you've at least used your own mind and not 10 of your friends.

Jesus is God!

Daniel in Syracuse,

I looked up the definition of a cult, and Mormonism does not meet that definition. At least, no more so than any church.

1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

This is every church.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

Again, this does not single out Mormons.

3. the object of such devotion.

Doesn't fit with religion

4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

You could use this, but it's no different than Baptists, or Catholics, Jews, etc.

5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Hmmm….the Masons?

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

Mormons are considered false by many other Christians….just as Christians are considered false by other religions. Are all Christians a cult? Mormons don't live outside of regular society, and they certainly are not any more extremist than say…orthodox jews.

7. the members of such a religion or sect.

See above.

8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

Irrelevant to religion.

So, again, why is Mormonism a cult? I'd love to know why you think this. What personal insights do YOU have into this church that make it a cult? The Mormons have 11 million members. This is no small-town Texas cult here. This is a worldwide religion with members in ALL walks of life, including senators in our country in both parties.

Glenn of Provo:

You've taken an event that happened with a specific tribe in a specific period of time and are trying to show racism. Here is what the Book of Mormon says in various ways and at various times:

2 Nephi 26: 33

For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; an ALL ARE ALIKE unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

And the book was traslated and published at a time when slavery was accepted by all America, including Baptists, Methodist, etc. Joseph Smith politically campaigned for the freedom of blacks too, when that was not the least bit fashionable, some 50 years before the real abolitionist movements.

to Glenn in Provo:

No, it specifically said the Lamanites and isn't referring to anyone else.

Our forefathers had the wisdom and foresight to create a government that was independent of the church. There still exists a fundamental separation of Church and State. We have the right to worship however we choose, but keep your bigoted and hypocritical religion out of politics. I'd vote for Hillary before giving the Religious Right (huh) control over government.

To Mike:
A recent article in The Christian Century magazine by Laurie Maffly-Kipp, religion professor at the University of North Carolina, who takes a look at the beliefs, history and culture of Mormonism. Written in the context of current presidential politics (the Mormon Church is neutral in partisan politics), she has produced an informed, rigorous and “non-Mormon” analysis with insights that go well beyond the surface.
http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=3594

Hope this helps.

Hey summus.. Everybody will be a Mormon eventually, well I sure to …. won't be. I was supposedly a protestant and my grandparents (3rd grandfather who was a Catholic) made me go to church. I hated it. I will never go to church again nor do I want to be any religion. Religion is a crutch. Speak for yourself!

Rodney in Dallas -

Southern Baptists going to elect Romney??? Are they the only people that get to vote? Last time I checked, Catholics still outnumber the Southern Baptists.

While I am definitely glad that the endorsement has been withdrawn, I encourage Christians across America to not rely on their church or denominational leaders for direction at the polls. With the internet, you have a wealth of information at your fingertips.

Look up "Flip" Romney. He is a former bishop of the Mormon church. I believe that Mormonism is a cult. If you disagree, look up the definition of a cult and then compare that to LDS doctrine. Even beyond religion, Romney has flipped on EVERY MAJOR ISSUE since he declared his candidacy. A little convenient, don't you think?

Then, look up Mike Huckabee. He is a man of integrity and character. Even if you don't agree with him on every issue, at least you know who he is and what he stands for.

Book of Mormon, the book of Alma, chapter 3, verse 6:

"And the skins of the Lamanites were, dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a "curse" upon them because of their transgressions and their rebellion against their bretheren…"

Does this chapter and verse imply that people with dark skin are cursed?

Reference: Book of Mormon, Copyright 1981 by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Salt Lake City, Utah, U.S.A.

First English Edition published in 1830

Comments from Dr. Wilton:
"On a personal level, Mormonism does make me nervous, because I am a Christian, and because the precepts and principles, and more importantly, the practices of Mormonism have cause for great concern."
"But I am going to tell you this. The people of the Mormon religion are very highly astute, highly family-oriented, deeply character-driven people. They are very fine people."

Could I make a similar statement about my neighbors: "Gosh, they are the nicest couple, so well behaved. But I gotta keep an eye on them because they drive a Green Car"

I was under some strange impression that churches / religious organizations were prohibited from endorsing a political candidate for risk of losing their non-profit status.

Personally, I don't care if the guy worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I'm looking for a candidate that is solid on the issues, holds strength in his/her convictions, has a basic understanding of economic and foreign policy, won't sell America [any further] to special interest groups and won't shove religion down everyone's throat. Our founding fathers referred to God in the terms of a Natural God, not in context of endorsing Christiantity. Yes, they were Christian, yes they believed in God, but they were adamently against having religion (regardless of the flavor) having an undue influence in governmental affairs.

In fact, Thomas Jefferson himself said: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." and "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."

George Washington himself had many opinions as well including, "Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated."

So, let's cut out this 'Who is more Christian than the other' but focus on real issue and not this smoke and mirrors drum beating which will get us nowhere and simply distract us from the very real challenges that face our nation.

I don't really care who is endorsed by whom…I will make up my own mind. For the Mormon apologist above, if you believe that you will become a god in the hereafter, then you aren't even a monotheist much less a Christian. And Mormons do believe this. Furthermore, your claims that the Book of Mormon hasn't ever been altered are false. It has been revised many times over the years, and the LDS church takes the new version to every public library to replace the old one in order that changes will not be noticed.

All you nay sayers will be surprised when Mitt gets that endorsement back, along with endorsements from all the Evangelical Christians. All he has to do is explain why his beliefs are polytheistic and why the Mormon deities are human (like him) before they become gods. That'll do it! Then they'll all come flocking to him.

Wow. You guys are amazing. What a cat fight. "My God is better than your God". "Is not!" "Is so!"

Now I see why Republicans espouse family values. You argue like my two preschoolers.

Listen Ladies and Gentleman,
Of course the response to the California fires is dramatically better than the response to Katrina…ITS MALIBU AND THE SURROUNDING AREAS. I have been reading articles that the "evacuees" are choosing hotels over shelters ::scratches head:: "I wonder why?" - Because they all HAVE MONEY, and don't believe for a SECOND that the higher income bracket of that area has NOTHING to do with the response and subsequent immediate evacuation of its residents - QUITE unlike Katrina and the lower income bracket families that lived there.

Gov. Mitt Romney had a girl that was married off when she was 14 years old to a mormon in utah when he went abroad to preach. That is what they don't want you to know….

Here is the truth. Gov. Mitt Romney had a girl that was married off in utah at the age of 14 when he went to preach abroad. That is what People don't know and they don't want you to know

Somebody once told me never to discuss politics or religion…This has all the elements to be the perfect storm.

Wow, even his supporters are flip-floppers.

You mean to tell me that Wilton did a "flip flop" on Romney?

Does this mean he's gonna drop out? Please tell me it means he's gonna quit! He's such a loser anyway. There is no way Southern Baptist are going to elect a Mormon as President. Give it up Mitt!

So let me get this straight.

Some death cult leader in SC first supports and then reneges on that support of a politician who happens to be a member of a different death cult.

That about it? I just hope they will all be sending each other to Jesus soon and leave the rest of us non-cultists live in peace.

No gods - no masters.

To PSK in Lakeside, AZ:

Do your homework - we know that at least the Epistles of John were written after the BOOK OF REVELATION, and it is possible that Timothy, Titus, Jude, and the Gospel of John were also. Also, if you had done your research, you would know that the bible as an entire book did not come into existence until well after the apostles had died. In fact, when John warns against adding to this book, he is referring to THE BOOK OF REVELATION, otherwise he would be telling disciples to reject other works that were subsequently included in the modern Bible. In short, the scriptures in the Bible were not necessarily written in chronological order, including the Book of Revelation. You might have other reasons to not like Mitt, but as stated, your current reason is inaccurate.

Now Romney rips what he saw just after a day. I won't be suprised if he looses the general election to Obama!

Is this a mormon or a moron?……Just wondering

Mormon or Moron now doesn't matter he can flip flop just like he did in massachusetts!

this loser lost my support he's a puppet for Isreal Ron Paul will get my support

Mike:
First may I thank you for you unbigoted opinions and genuine interest and concern for Christianity-it is very plain to see that you really do follow Christ!

As a Latter-day Saint I beleive that every individual lived in heaven with a heavenly Father and Mother before birth. We had spirit bodies that looked very similar to the bodies we have now. Christ was the first-born spiritually of the Father, and we are literally his brothers and sisters. Christ is the ONLY-begotten of the Father in the flesh-we do not pretend to understand the methods by which this was accomplished save that which is written in holy scripture, namely that the spirit overcame Mary. Inferrence concerning this topic only diminishes faith. We believe that the Savior lived an absolutely perfect life; that he suffered the pains, sicknesses, trials, tribulations and sins and transgressions of every soul ever born. He then willingly commended his soul to death. 3 days later he was resurrected. Because of this we ALL will be resurrected, and those who follow him and exercise his atonement in their lives will be saved to live with God again. In this way Christ is our personal savior-his atonement and power alone provide salvation, which does not come without effort on our part. Christ is my Redeemer, my Savior, my Brother and My Friend-the Son of God in the Flesh. I know that God has a plan of eternal progression for all of us! Think of an eternity without progression! It would be terrible. Exactly what this plan entails we do not pretend to know exactly (why would God reveal the tenants of the next life if we cannot abide by those of this life?). However, I do know that we will eternally progress in family units. Even God progresses, though not of Himself. We are his work and his glory-his progression is through his literal children. I love the Lord and respect anyone who lives a life of goodness in the pursuit of truth. Good Mormons do not demean the truths of others, but simply offer greater light and truth.
Mormon missionaries are more that willing to explain this further, and the power of their words will be a witness to you of truth if you earnestly seek it.
Again, thank you for your sincere concern and genuine interest in what is good and right. I won't vote for Mitt Romney because i don't like his policies-good mormons will vote based on platform, not church affiliation.

Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…

Why do people care if Gov. Romney exercises the same Constitutional right that all So. Baptist, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, etc. exercise? How does his theology determine if he is qualified to be president? Look at Bush, he is a Methodist (aka "mainstream" Christian) and he has turned out to be quite possibly the most inept president ever.

Does it matter if a Mormon is Christian according to Rev. X, Y & Z? Where does it say that that is a qualification to be president? I can't stand ignorant people that make uneducated decisions based on irrelevant information.

The latter decision of Mr. Wilton, to renounce his support with Romney is because the Southern Baptist Convention does not want to lose their dominance in the political arena. People will come to realize that the Southern Baptist Convention is the modern day Confederacy. Mr. Wilton response about Christ being the reason for his vote is a cover because he doesn't want to take the heat from the Southern Baptist because of Huckabee. I hope that the U.S government does not vote for anyone in the Southern Baptist Convention and any of its leaders because of the hypocrisy and legalism they have formed in the platforms of religion. They say they are conservative, but why do they use Hollywood as a reference to their messages and the use of modern forms of music worship.

Endorsements are for people too ignorant to think for themselves. Intelligent people do not base their decisions on the endorsement of anyone.

~~Tsk, tsk. Maybe there's a Billy Bob University out there somewhere that will support him.~~

I'm utterly amazed at this entire dialogue. "Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's…" is something that our founding father's saw fit to etch into our Bill of Rights because they knew where religious intolerance leads when co-mingled with government in a free and pluralistic society. If you want to mix up something really dangerous, do something with fertilizer and gasoline, but please, please keep your religion and your politics separate!!!

Wow, who cares…I would WANT a pastor to NOT be on my side. Let's keep religion and politics apart…Would be nice if that actually could happen.

"I will continue to use my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ as the only standard by which I determine who to vote for in any election."

So all he cares about in a candidate is how religious they are and how well they pander to his flock.

This is truly frightening, no wonder why this country can't get anything done anymore. With people espousing this sort of religious lunacy things are looking bleak.

I'm really lost these days. I don't know what religion is anymore. I don't understand how religious leaders claim they follow Jesus Christ. Jesus never supported a political party(ies) or gave or indicated that governments were the solution to human's needs. He said his Kingdom was the one and only. He said his Kingdom wasn't part of this world… Christian ignores Bible facts on God's future plans to eliminate evil governments who identify themselves with beast symbols. Jesus Christ condemns all the wars and abuses we see today. He won't share his theocratic Government with any other human made government. Read chapters 11 and 12 of Daniel and 17 and 18 of Revelations and you'll see what is in the future for both, Governments and religions.

"This is not a conversation about a person, it is about a religion that drives a person to do what he does"

Hmm… Wonder if Wilton feels the same way about people of Islamic or other non-christ based religious faith

Mike,

I'm afraid you are misunderstanding my point. I am not trying to convince people to vote for Mitt or to even accept the doctrine espoused by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. People have their God given agency, and I respect their decision.

I'm more worried about the continued attacks against the Mormon Church. A few months ago, a group of people put out a video against my faith. This was quickly denounced by the anti-defamation league. But these attacks don't seem to end, and some of the e-mails herein seem to support that.

As far as I'm concerned, there should be a separation of church and state. That is to say, one religion should not dominate the political process. I would add, however, that I am in favor of promoting Christian values since I believe those will do much to assist our nation in the future.

As to the nature of God, we can debate doctrine until we are blue in the face. I'm happy with my view and you are with yours.

Thus, I'd rather promote respect among faiths, rather than work to convince each other that we are wrong.

Did dear Dr. Wilton check the IRS statues on tax exemption requirements for religious organizations and decide to recant his endorsement?

Don't be scammed! One major difference tween the Latter-day Saints and other Christian groups is that the others are often very well paid for their sermons. They are Corporations that fear losing "market share" to the LDS who lead, counsel and preach as volunteers!

Last attempt..for any LDS members who can explain…I've never had any luck getting a good answer….

I am interested in what is at the heart of the most important matter…and that is Jesus. The source document quoted by Dave from Denton Texas, from the LDS website states that the members of the trinity are "united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance." If this is so, and each member of the trinity is a divine being as stated in the text, AND if they are not one with God, then are there multiple Gods? Again, who is Jesus, where does he come from, what do you consider his relationship to be with you? I ask this of any Mormon (esp. Mitt Romney) who uses the name of the Lord Jesus in vain, claiming to be Christian, when the beliefs they espouse contradict scripture. I hold no personal grudge against Mitt Romney or any other Mormon. Two of my best friends either were or are Mormon. Mormons on the whole are great morally sound people. But it must be clear to everyone that Biblically, they can not claim to be Christians if their concept of Christ is not in accordance with the whole of scripture. I again ask with all due respect (Mitt Romney in concept) or any Mormon, to please explain clearly and thoroughly, the origin of Jesus, His relationship to God the Father, and His relationship to you, and what your destiny is for salvation and eternity as it relates to Jesus. I am not expressing fear at Mitt Romney for being President if the voters elect him. I am only conserned about anyone out there who says that they are Christians and worship the same Jesus Christians do. Please consider this an opportunity to convince any voters of the "religious right" that their differences with Mitt Romney are unfounded.

Inconsequential.

Thank god I'm an athiest!!!!

I am curious why those of you would not vote for a person that is Mormon. I understand you do not think Mormons are Christians, but, are you saying that you need to elect a so-called "Christian" President. And if so, do you think the President will recieve personal inspiration from God, in decisions he makes for the Country?

Posted By Todd, Las Vegas Nevada : October 24, 2007 4:57 pm

I'm curious, too. Especially when you consider the third paragraph in Article VI of the Constitution - underlining emphasis is mine:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

As a Christian, I’m glad to see Christian leaders starting to realize how dangerous it is to support a Mormon candidate. It’s comforting to see Wilton’s comments on Mormonism/Mormons and realize that as a Christian, he shouldn’t support a cult – no matter how much it tries to not appear as one and look like Christianity. Hopefully others will follow Wilton’s lead.

Actually, a lot of us are getting very tired of this continual flogging of religion and piety as a way of identifying a politician. How about looking at how they do/did their jobs? How they treat their families? How honest they've been in their business dealings?

By almost all counts, Romney fails. He lied his way into a governorship; he denigrated his wife when she spoke out about her illness fearing that his governorship would harm her health; and once he got into office in Massachusetts, he was never here to do any work. He was always out sashaying around, sucking up to voters in the southern states, looking for new 'honeys' to prop up his sagging numbers. He began as a moderate (if you can believe him) and now suddenly he's a fundie, born-again, seeking to sell himself and his religion as a plus in governing. Sorry, but none of this helped him when he WAS a governor. He just flat-out lied and was a sorry excuse for a leader.

His religion doesn't make a hill of beans' difference to me; his character does. And he (and other "religious" politicians) continue to prove to me that their religion is nothing but a prop to buy votes. Peoples' religion and spiritual values are private, and shouldn't be bought and sold as political prizes.

Get religion out of the races, folks. Not all of us are slobbering fundies out here and we're sick of having religion shoved down our throats.

I cannot support a candidate whose religious beliefs come from a religion that treats women like 2nd-class citizens. Of all the Mormon couples I know, the wives do not work and are expected to stay home and raise many children. I cannot respect a religion that pressures barely-adults into early marriage and treats women like baby ovens.

I for one would vote for Romney or any conservative candidate who shared my views on the various issues. I have just heard from numerous sources, included at least one or two prominent Christian leaders, and even several on this forum, that Mormons are also Christians, and that they worship the same Jesus that Christians do. That is what I am questioning. I don't hold anyone's religious affiliation against them unless they make this type of false claim for political purposes.

No church should be endorsing any of the candidates. Keep religion out of politics. All one has to do is take a quick look at just about any history book and they'll know why. For that matter just look around the world today and see how mixing religion and politics is working in places like Iran. Half of the dumb crap that Bush has gotten us into is a direct result of his religious beliefs.

I think Romney is losing more endorsements than what he is getting at this point, people may call him a flip-flopper, but have they looked hard at Giuliani?

I am curious why those of you would not vote for a person that is Mormon. I understand you do not think Mormons are Christians, but, are you saying that you need to elect a so-called "Christian" President. And if so, do you think the President will recieve personal inspiration from God, in decisions he makes for the Country?

Here is an idea: how about we simply follow the Golden Rule of respecting one another and trying to put ourselves in the other's shoes. You can be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, or an atheist and still follow this. No more worrying about the angels on a pin.
Then if we pay attention to the real world and reason together, perhaps we might elect some leaders who are not dimwits or stooges and even resolve a problem or two.

Wilton, not Romney, looks stupid for flip-flopping. Now, Wilton cannot go and pledge support to Huckabee, who is more aligned to Wilton's evangelical teachings. If he does, he will come across as a hypocrite. He already comes across as a flopper or an indecisive man.

I am interested in what is at the heart of the most important matter…and that is Jesus. The source document quoted by Dave from Denton Texas, from the LDS website states that the members of the trinity are "united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance." If this is so, and each member of the trinity is a divine being as stated in the text, AND if they are not one with God, then are there multiple Gods? Again, who is Jesus, where does he come from, what do you consider his relationship to be with you? I ask this of any Mormon (esp. Mitt Romney) who uses the name of the Lord Jesus in vain, claiming to be Christian, when the beliefs they espouse contradict scripture. I hold no personal grudge against Mitt Romney or any other Mormon. Two of my best friends either were or are Mormon. Mormons on the whole are great morally sound people. But it must be clear to everyone that Biblically, they can not claim to be Christians if their concept of Christ is not in accordance with the whole of scripture. I again ask with all due respect (Mitt Romney in concept) or any Mormon, to please explain clearly and thoroughly, the origin of Jesus, His relationship to God the Father, and His relationship to you, and what your destiny is for salvation and eternity as it relates to Jesus. I am not expressing fear at Mitt Romney for being President if the voters elect him. I am only conserned about anyone out there who says that they are Christians and worship the same Jesus Christians do. Please consider this an opportunity to convince any voters of the "religious right" that their differences with Mitt Romney are unfounded.

PRESIDENT CLINTON. Get used to saying it again folks. Let's not fool ourselves. After 8 years of Bush, I agree it will take Clinton in the WHITE HOUSE for Rebublicans to get their heads out of their A** and realize the people of this country are tired of losing jobs, no health care, sick and tired of this so called " Free Trade.. Free ? for whom ?. Sick of Bush trying to give legal status to Thousands of illegals. Sick of the Border being wide open to receive thousands more per year. Millions of good paying American Jobs have been Lost to FREE TRADE. And what about this war that each American is now for responsible for $ 8000.00 , the cost for each American. I don't have 8000.00 for a war. I lost my job in July. I was a CLINTON BASHER 18 months ago. Today, I am A CLINTON SUPPORTER. As far as ROMNEY goes. Watch his numbers plummet over the next few months. I see his support going into the single digits before the first to the year. Watch.

What happened to separation of church and state? Hasn't the church endorsing a candidate wreaked enough horror in the heart of America?

To Dave from Denton: I certainly stand by your right to worship as you wish- but I will quote from Revelations 22:18: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book. If any man shall add unto these things (the Bible), God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." I just don't feel comfortable voting for someone that has aligned himself with a religion that has added books to Bible- in direct defiance of the above verse. I do not condemn you- I just don't want my vote to elect someone from this particular faith.

Oh man. religion sure does get people riled up.

First i will say that i have nothing against Mormons but they are often not categorized as Christian because they began following the leadership of another. They added another book to further the religion so it is a different religion then Christianity, though with a similar base. It is not Christian but there is also nothing wrong with that.

Second for those harping on how unchristian Christians are remember that they are people just like everyone else. True Christians try to live a different life but it is hard and they are not always great at it. Furthermore, every group has bad people and Christians are no different. 85% of americans claim to be Christian but i don't see that in life so done be so hard because people place titles on themselves. People who say that are just as close minded as the people they are harpooning.

There is alot of talk about LDS members being in a cult, and I couldn't agree more. If the church told these nut jobs to jump off a building they would do it because they believe it is God's assignment. I will never vote a Mormon into a position this high in society.

once upon a time there was a man named Joseph Smith (a failed treasure hunter) who convinced people that an angel (named Moroni- which is also the name of a place were pirates hid treasure in the Caribean) gave him a secret book with metal pages that only he could see and decode. Those who believed him became his flock and they had as many children as humanly possible- this continues today as the Mormons have bred themselves into legitamacy. One day we will all be Mormon whether we like it or not.

A number of commentators have suggested we have a Christian constitution. This is complete nonsense. There is not a word about Christianity in the Constitution, which specifically mandates freedom of religion, nonestablishment of any religion and a prohibition on any religious oaths or affirmations.

The Constitution, like the Declaration of Independence, is a secular document, written primarily by men who wanted organized religion to stay the hell out of our government and vice-versa.

Oh everybody is so afraid to tell the truth. Just beat around the bush. I don't care about religion at all. Who even knows about any of that stuff. I believe Sylvia, that there is another dimension after this which is three feet off the ground and that makes much more sense.

I am pretty much indifferent to theology, so I write as a neutral observer. Having lived my whole life among religious people, I have observed:

1. You don't choose a religion, you inherit it. If I had been born in Palestein, I would be a Muslim probably - or at least pretending to be one. If you were born in Athens, you'd be Greek Orthodox today.

2. All of you who say you worship the same God, the same Jesus, or the same Allah don't know what you're talking about. You all worship a thousand gods who happen to have the same names, but each of those thousand gods have unique personalities and they expect very different things of their followers. And, I might add, their followers expect very different things from ME.

3. You are all very secure in your belief, confident that you and your group have the final and correct answers to the meaning of life. Each of you wants to tell me and others who are not in your group how we should all behave. None of us wants to hear it. You don't like to hear it either, when someone tries to convert you away from whichever deity you currently prefer.

4. Quoting those old books at us does not prove anything. If one of those holy manuscripts is the really real truly true one, then the others are false. Since no religious group accounts for more than 15% of the population (Roman Catholic being the largest), then at least 85% of the human race is lost in error, maybe a lot more. If the Mormons are right, then 99% of us are doomed. In any case, the vast majority of the human race is destined for an unsatisfying afterlife or none at all.

Can anyone deny any of this?

Now, can anyone tell me how a presidential candidate who believes in the Trinity would govern differently than one who does not?

Wilton was probably afraid he would lose his tax emempt status if he endorsed a candidate. It shows how disgusting Romney is that he wants the endorsements of all those right wing bigots.

THANK YOU ETM!
FINALLY SOME SENSE ON THIS PAGE….

THANK GOD!!GO HILLERY!!

As Brother Wilton said: "I can tell you Governor Romney appears to me to be a man of deep and abiding conviction," Wilton said in the interview with CNN. "But I am going to tell you this. The people of the Mormon religion are very highly astute, highly family-oriented, deeply character-driven people. They are very fine people. This is not a conversation about a person, it is about a religion that drives a person to do what he does," he added.

Interestingly confusing?? Give Mormons credit for the great things that they do but discredit the Mormons for the great things that they do.

Rock the Vote!!

I think that "family valaues" should always be in quotes in these kinds of stories because it is the right wing's definition, not most Americans.

He's just worried about his 501(c)(3) status. As well he should be since it is a direct violation of the code. Not that anyone has seen fit to enforce it though. I guess this is further evidence that the Rule of Law doesn't apply to this administration.

Let's keep religion completely out of politics. When they are mixed, both are corrupted.
In any event, Romney is as phony as a three-dollar bill, no matter what his religious beliefs may be.

You will all see the light and except Joseph Smith as the truth.

I think this hurts Wilton more then Romney.I think this speaks volume about Dr Wilton. We have learned from Dr Wilton's recant, that he will support someone in secret so to say. But is embarrased and weak to stand up and support out in the open, fearing he may offend someone or some group. Sounds like a small man to me. I would be fine if supporters like that fell off the bandwagon.

For those of you arguing the merits of various Christian sects, all of them are based on myth.
No, Jesus did not rise from the dead, and, yes, Joseph Smith was a fraud.

Now stop praying to totem poles and try giving reason a chance.

No surprise there. The truth will out!
Especially regarding long hidden secrets just ask Larry! Onward…

Romney is not Presidential material. But then look who's in the office now…what an embarrassment.
Don't let anyone fool you, the Mormons stick together like glue. If you think this administration is packed with perverted pedophiles and cronies, you ain't seen nothin until you look into some of these holier than thou Mormons.
It's the ones who profess the loudest about their morals and the lack of MORAL LEADERSHIP (Mormons or others)…it's those creeps that are caught in the men's room diddling around or the likes of Mark Foley the molester of Congressional Pages that shout their MORALITY from the rooftops.
GIVE ME A BREAK, MAN!
Send em all to Iraq. Every one of these REPUBLICAN, DRAFT DODGING HAWKS. You can bet the farm that they were pooping their collective pants at the thought of Viet Nam, but today those same cowardly deferment hogs demand more money and troups in Iraq.
George W. Bush was and is the biggest coward of all yet he has no problem ordering the blood of our finest to be spilled in that sand trap on the other side of the world.
What a bunch of loosers.
Don't even get me started on the 'country's Mayor'!

Uhhh WHO CARES! Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? And all you Mormon haters out there need to get over it. How are they hurting you? You may not agree with their beliefs but that's OK. That's why we live in America where we can all believe what we want. The hate on this board is really a statement of how screwed up this country is.

So Romney lost the endorsement of a right-wing evangelical leader.
Now if only America could lose all the right-wing evangelical Christians.

I will be a student at Bob Jones University beginning in January and I've already said this once but Bob Jones III is NOT the President of our university. He retired several years ago and is NO LONGER President of our university. Please make a correction! Stephen Jones is the President, not Bob Jones III.

mormans are not Christians!

To Marlon:

Good point! Churches/religions should teach its followers how to behave.

A good example is how the LDS faith teaches that PROCHOICE is acceptable.

No wonder Mitt had no problem being blue in MA., but now wants to be red.

With such flip-flopping on the political issues, the ticket should be "Kerry-Romney 2008″

Am I mistaken that non-profit organizations with tax-exempt status are restricted from political lobbying? It is amazing the level of news coverage on these endorsements when, by their nature, they run in conflict with the law.

Don't listen to anything said Mormons aren't Christians they worship Jesus but also believe Joesph Smith was a prophet who mysteriously read a lost gospel from gold tablets in a hat. Also they believe that Jesus and the Hebrews lived in America and that the natives that were here were "evil" people. Also wearing undergarments with supposed "magic protection" underneth your real underwear is a bit cultish wouldn't you say?

Amen, Marlon!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The one who looks bad here is Dr. Wilton, not Mitt Romney. As a Christian, I am embarrassed by other so-called Christians who make the most unkind and unflattering remarks about Mr. Romney and his religion. Ignorance is just as powerful as a knife or gun, and the national display of ignorance, lately, is a phenomenon to behold. I have no doubt that Mitt Romney would serve the U.S. just as faithfully as Mike Huckabee, just as faithfully as Rudy Giuliani, just as faithfully as Joe Lieberman if he were running. I may not agree with the politics of these individuals, but I do not doubt their intentions to serve the country in a way that would not allow their personal religion to influence or interfere. I remain, in the meantime, embarrassed by my fellow Christians who launch verbals attacks on Mr. Romney.

Apparently, we haven't we learned our lesson from mixing politics and religion (see outcome of last two presidential elections). Why don't we just go to a church-state…..just like…..those in the Middle East….and 1600's Europe. Either that or tax the preachers who play politics. Churches need to focus on TEACHING morals and values so we'll have people & politicians who PRACTICE good morals and values - rather than trying to IMPOSE "Morals & Values" on those that they missed because they were playing politics.

"For most people who have posted thus far: …You all make me violently ill. … How can you disobey the teachings of Christ so flagrantly? " Violently ill? You got a problem. What's next, violence? Look around you. Not everyone is Christian. Learn tolerance, and to love thy neighbor as thyself, not to get 'violently ill' over differences.

Why would anyone care who any religious leader supports. Church and politics needs to be so much more separate. I would not vote for anyone based on a recommendation of a religious leader.

Re: Kerry, Lexington MA

You are comparing apples to oranges - I should find the falacy you are committing a post that.

But, for now, or in 100 years (which ironically has been about the same about of time that brother Joseph dreamed up his book), the Christian faith will share the same opinion about mormonism.

The greatest disparity in your comparison, is that the gospels of the apostle's (Mathew, Mark, etc) were proven to be true.

Now, since the LDS faith was established some 100 years ago, its main text has been proven to be false. Let's not forget that the Book of Mormon preaches that the American Indians are the first mormon's and are of Hebrew linage. However, recent DNA studies have proven that the American Indian linage is from Asia. Need proof? See: http://www.lhvm.org/dna.htm

For chrissakes, Mr. Romney, just GO AWAY, you freak.

A SOUTHERN BAPTIST WHO GIVES HIS OKAY TO SATAN WILL NOT SEE GOD'S FACE IN PEACE IN MY OPINION. THIS IS TRUE FOR ANY BIBLE BELIEVING PERSON WHO REJECTS GOD FOR THE SAKE OF PERSONAL GAIN. GOD IS NOT DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN. THOSE WHO ENDORSE THE WORLD SHALL HAVE NO PART IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD THAT I CAN ASSURE YOU.

Dr. Wilson is such a flip-flopper!!

Another classic example of why religion has no place in politics. The founding fathers, wisely, said their should be a separation of Church and State. I'm not a Romney fan, but he is entitled to his religious beliefs like everyone else. AND who the heck cares what the evangelicals think? They are a bunch of hypocrites - just look at Pastor Haggard in Colorado ( who preached against homsexuality while paying for sex with a male prostitue) and that hate-spewing bigot, James Dobson of Focus on the Family who wants power and will use whatever emotional maniuplation he can to acheive it. Shame on them both.

It's embarrassing how many religious zealots are out there in this country. I'm so sick of this nonsense, as are most eductated people. Who cares what some evangelical right wing jerks think?

By not taxing churches, the government is prevented from directly interfering with how churches operate. By the same token, those churches are also prevented from directly interfering with how the government operates in that they cannot endorse any political candidates, they cannot campaign on behalf of any candidates, and they cannot attack any political candidate. Maybe it IS time to do something.

I am interested in what is at the heart of the most important matter…and that is Jesus. The source document quoted by Dave from Denton Texas, from the LDS website states that the members of the trinity are "united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance." If this is so, and each member of the trinity is a divine being as stated in the text, AND if they are not one with God, then are there multiple Gods? Again, who is Jesus, where does he come from, what do you consider his relationship to be with you? I ask this of any Mormon (esp. Mitt Romney) who uses the name of the Lord Jesus in vain, claiming to be Christian, when the beliefs they espouse contradict scripture. I hold no personal grudge against Mitt Romney or any other Mormon. Two of my best friends either were or are Mormon. Mormons on the whole are great morally sound people. But it must be clear to everyone that Biblically, they can not claim to be Christians if their concept of Christ is not in accordance with the whole of scripture. I again ask with all due respect (Mitt Romney in concept) or any Mormon, to please explain clearly and thoroughly, the origin of Jesus, His relationship to God the Father, and His relationship to you, and what your destiny is for salvation and eternity as it relates to Jesus. I am not expressing fear at Mitt Romney for being President if the voters elect him. I am only conserned about anyone out there who says that they are Christians and worship the same Jesus Christians do. Consider this an opportunity to convince any voters of the "religious right" that their differences with Mitt Romney are unfounded.

How very sad for this country that we are still entrenched in such bigotry. This election should not be a showcase for the best religion. The question is who is most qualified to lead this country. While I have not made up my mind on which Republican candidate will get my vote, I can tell you that only the truly ignorant and uneducated will overlook Romney as a serious candidate simply because he is Mormon, LDS, or whatever they call their religion.

Todd, from SLC UTAH:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

"Funny really, if the Book of Mormon was suppose to be so correct, why did the early printings state that people who have dark skin are so colored, because they are the cursed people? Then when the civil rights act was established into law, the book was revised to remove that statement."

That's a completely false statement. The verse is still there and it isn't about black people, never was. Either anti-Mormon fanatics quote it out of context and claim it is about black people or they claim it isn't there but "used to be". But they can't point to where it "used to be" or show an old Book of Mormon with it and one without…

You're spreading false information because you took one of those anti-Mormon courses that is filled with false info and you never bothered to check the references. Sorry, this one is too easy to refute.

Maybe these fools will learn to stop pandering to everyone in sight.

Not being endorsed by some groups isn't a bad thing.

Romney is going nowhere anyway.

It's time to tax every "Church" that backs any political candadate. The "Church" should not be a political soapbox.

At one time anybody who believed Jesus came back to life after His death were thought to be heretical, blasphemous, and part of a dangerous cult. Likewise anybody who believed in this "new canon" with writings of Matthew, Peter, Paul, etc. It took hundreds of years to change that way of thinking. I wonder how those who believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet (and the addition canon he brought forth) will be viewed a few hundred years from now.

I'll follow up on what Brian's point:

At one point, Pastor Wilton states "This is not a conversation about a person, it is about a religion that drives a person to do what he does."

What does Mormonism drive people to do? Pastor Wilton answers his own question: "The people of the Mormon religion are very highly astute, highly family-oriented, deeply character-driven people."

And yet, he says "Mormonism does make me nervous, because I am a Christian, and because the precepts and principles, and more importantly, the practices of Mormonism have cause for great concern."

Without trying to cast stones, doesn't this seem a little contradictory?

Please people: if you don't want to vote for Mitt that is fine. There are some things in his past that I don't particularly like (even though I do think he is the most well-rounded GOP candidate out there).

If you disagree, I respect your decision. Let's all try to respect the religious beliefs of others as well.

It's amazing that many people see a cause for concern over a Mormon (who believes in Jesus as their savior) getting the Presidency, and yet didn't show any concern when Liebermann (Jewish - doesn't believe Jesus is his savoir) ran on the VP ticket a few years back. It didn't cause anywhere near the uproar, and that suprises me when listening to the concerns of these supposed evangelicals. Morality and religious faith are two separate things. Judge any potential leader by his morals and past history, not the nameplate on his religion.

This is just to remind people that there is no "wall of separation between church and state" in our Constitution. That is merely a phrase written by Thomas Jefferson assuring Baptists that their rights would not be taken away by the new government. Our nation was founded by people who considered faith very important. Therefore, it is only a continuation of the American Way to discuss a candidates religious views.

Not only do mormon's believe they will be god's of their own universe, they believe they believe that the Book of Mormon supersedes the Holy Bible (i.e. the only correct revalation of God).

This all established by Joseph Smith the founder of modern day American Poligamy - who as it was, was arrested in MO. for being a conartist.

Funny really, if the Book of Mormon was suppose to be so correct, why did the early printings state that people who have dark skin are so colored, because they are the cursed people? Then when the civil rights act was established into law, the book was revised to remove that statement. If it is the word of God, I think it would be correct from the git-go?

The things that make you go Hmmm.

Just think, Mitt not only want to be Prez, he also wants to be the god of your universe!

moron or mormon?

I was shocked when Wilton initially said he supported Romney because SC is a very very conservative state (true Red) and Romney does not fit that bill…

he's mormon. mormons are cult followers. therefore, no surprise fanatical evangelicals don't support him. they have issues too.

WOW! I continue to be astonished and confused, even today in the year 2007, at the level of religius Bigotry in America… Shame on you. I hope you are ready to face your Christ and explain to him why you draw so close to him with your mouth but how your heart is so far from his techings. Rather than being afraid of mormonism and how it rocks your sandy foundation
you should actually listen to the message and teachings of the church.

Let us not forget that it was the established religion and its leaders of the time
that Put our Christ on a cross, because they didn't like his doctrine.

Again and Again people do not understand the term Mormonism or understand the nature of Mormonism. They have persecuted the Mormon Church from the day it was organized to even the present day.
In the Bible Isaiah 28 verse 12 it is stated that in the days of the refreshing few people would listen. Again God is speaking in Acts 3 verses 19, 20 and 21 and states that he will again send Jesus Christ who had previously preached onto you in the days of the refreshing. What happens when you hit the refresh button on your computer? Does not all the old come back with what is new? What is so hard to understand in meaning of the word? The Mormon Church was not organized by Joseph Smith. It was organized under the direction of Jesus Christ using a boy named Joseph Smith who was trained as a prophet from the time he was a small boy uncorrupted by the ways of the world as Jehovah or Jesus Christ did in the Old Testament. Jesus Christ directed him every step of the way throughout his life until his death. Read the Doctrine and Covenants of the Mormon Church. Jesus Christ is there every day directing Joseph Smith. Not one single concept was belonged to Joseph Smith.
Before the earth was flooded did not Jesus Christ or Jehovah call a prophet
named Enoch to preach and round up the good people who were translated to Heaven before the Earth was flooded. Is it any stranger that he would do the same thing before what is termed the 2nd Coming when Jesus comes in vengence on an evil and wicked earth.
Throughout the Bible a period of Restoration is talked about before the Great and Dreadful Day of the 2nd Coming. Wake up People and read all of the Bible.

Todd,

Please know that our first article of faith states: We believe in God the eternal father, in His son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Also, please consider the following New Testament verses from the Bible: After his resurrection, Jesus Christ said "Handle me, and see; for a spirt hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39). Phillippians 3:20-21 states that our resurrected body will be fashioned like unto Christ's body.

You are 100% correct: We beli