The audio recording provides a rare glimpse into Romney's private efforts to win over evangelical Christians skeptical of his Mormon faith.
COLUMBIA, South Carolina (CNN) – At an invitation-only meeting held Tuesday with students, faculty and alumni of the fundamentalist Bob Jones University, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney put aside questions about his Mormon faith and focused instead on what he described as his shared values with Christians, according to an audio recording of the meeting obtained by CNN.
Although Romney has often spoken publicly about his efforts to allay the fears of evangelical Christians over his Mormon faith, the audio recording of the event provides a rare glimpse into Romney's private efforts to court the constituency many see as crucial to his presidential bid.
"I get good support from evangelical Christian leadership around the country, you know, despite a difference in religion," Romney told the audience of evangelicals gathered at the Greenville Hilton.
"I think it was Dr. Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention who said we're not electing a pastor-in-chief, and so I appreciate that support and just you remember that when you go to vote," he said with a laugh.
The recording, which was done without the knowledge of the Romney campaign or those from the Bob Jones community in attendance, was provided to CNN by an alumnus of the fundamentalist Christian school who was invited to the private meeting, which was described in an e-mail he also provided as "designed to specifically reach out to members of the Bob Jones University family."
Read the entire story and listen to the audio recording here.
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Isn't that unethical to sneak a recording at an invitation-only event? Of course, political candidates know they are always under the spotlight, but this sounds dishonest.
Too bad you conspiring fools didn't find any fodder to smear Romney by recording this private meeting.
Bob Jones Intolerance U?
Bye, Mitt. You're toast.
I find two very remarkably republican points about this "discussion:"
1) The source of the recording felt he had to remain anonymous because "he did not want to anger the [religious] university community," and
2) It was an "invitation only" event.
I concur with Romney, even though I'm not a Republican. The qualifications of a good president DO NOT include his religious preference. The rise of the southern evangelical right and the manner in which it has exacted itself into American politics the past 30 years is dangerous and will continue to divide the nation. Just look what we have in George Bush!
As Americans – we have the freedom of religion – having one forced down your throat is not what people want or need. On the left – people need to stop asking the government "what can you do for me now?" – thats why I'm voting for Giuliani
What is up with people ALWAYS associating GOVERNMENT and RELIGION together? There is really no separation of church and state.
Question for Romney: Why aren't we in Afghanistan looking for bin Laden and what are you going to do about that if and when you become president?
I'm still somewhat perplexed as to why the Evangelical Christians are looking at Romney and Giuliani, as opposed to Mike Huckabee. Yes the first two candidates mentioned have name recognition, and therefore most would decide in a knee-jerk reaction that they are more electable. But Huckabee has proven to be intelligent, a gifted public speaker, and most importantly for conservatice Christians, a Baptist minister. I'm not saying that I personally endorse Huckabee, but I do find it odd that more groups aren't throwing their weight behind him.
"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Ratified during Washington's term by the Senate. The US is NOT a theocracy, and never
should be.
As Americans – we have the freedom of religion – having one forced down your throat is not what people want or need. On the left – people need to stop asking the government "what can you do for me now?" – thats why I'm voting for Giuliani
Posted By Chris, Middletown, CT : November 9, 2007 1:27 pm
Keep Voting for whoever you want.....You can worship who you want in the world. The thing is, I want a president that doesn't flip flop all the time. I wanna feel included in the goverment and the things that they make decision on, I wanna feel not dopped or lied to...I wanna trust my American goverment again,
I am voting Obama this time around come what may!
What shared lies frm those that call themselves Christians or Christian Leaders; "We are not electing the Paster in Chief"
So why the Hillary bashing? Or the saying it will rally the christian right?
Christain in America: Call it what it is!!! You don't support anyone that sees Black and white co-existing. Only those that believe in Whites only.
Mitt....that's all they want to hear from you. Whites only.
Kudos to the person who recorded the Romney speech and wants people to know that the administration of Bob Jones U does not speak for all its members.
I'm presuming BJU is a for-profit organization; otherwise, it seems to be putting its tax status at risk, especially when administrators publically endorse a candidate and encourage others to vote for him.
I was very concerned about Bob Jones's comment on being able to build and fund a campaign. Does this mean that BJU is contributing funds as an entity to the campaign or getting funds from the campaign for its own uses. Whatever the answer may be, it's not a good one.
Who cares what church he goes to or if he goes to church at all! His religion is not part of the job description that he's applying for. For those who think it is, I think YOU need to separate church and state.
Good, this just clarifies to me that Romney knows enough to keep his religion out of the office as much as he can.
Sounds like he's my man for 2008.
I believe our faith will affect our leadership whether spoken or unspoken, though I am also confident that this man wouldn't seek to convert the US to Mormanism. Several of our former presidents claimed to be Baptists, though I'm still wondering if they represented the Baptists well or not!
As an ex-mormon with a 30 year experience of mormon psychology,i feel 100% certain that if Romney were to be president he most certainly would lead the USA down the path of armageddon rapidly.The man sincerely believes that he will be a God one day,with many wives,also that these are the last days.If you knew what was in his mind you'd equate it with terrorism.
I do not have any problem with people making their own choice or nonchoice about religion. But when people believe that Jesus lives on another planet, and at the end of the world will have to come to the vaults under the Salt Lakes to see who is Morman, who has married in the Morman faith, I have a litle problem with the logic of it all. They even have Morman marrriages for the dead and then archieve them. All religions have some oddities to them, but these things go way beyond what what I can fathom. What other beliefs come to this kind of logic.
Republican = War hungry perverts!
This guy changes positions where politically convinient....He was against abortion till he was for it, he was against gay marriage till he was the first governor to legalize homosexual marriage in massachusetts, he was against guns control till he then changed to be pro gun control...What do you stand for firmly Romney? Now you are against all the above just for convinience of being elected the president of united states...No matter how presidential you look you are a liar......you let people in massachusetts unhappy because you abandoned them and your job rushing out for presidential post.
You know, I have no problem with you being a mormon but I have a problem with your illegal activities with Bain co. the company you held in massachusetts.
I am just trying to tell people who you really are for them to make a good decisions come next elections......
REMEMBER the BUSH secret meetings & invitation only campaign rallies etc... that is all we need is another corrupt administration... VOTE DEMOCRATIC 08.
I'm glad to see that many conservative Evangelicals are willing to overlook religious differences and focus on shared values. Mitt Romney is the best candidate in the field, hands down. I am confident he is gaining the momentum he needs to win the presidency. The GOP and the nation will be privileged to have this classy, accomplished gentleman as the president of our great nation!
I'm confused Chris. How did you gather that Romney is going to force Mormonism down your throat? You really think he's going to announce a "Mormon Learning Day" where everyone in school learns about Mormons? Get real... If anything, he's trying to downplay Mormonism in the election and focus on the issues he supports.
I just don't get this Evangelicals Against Mormons movement. Don't they also believe that Catholics and Jews are wrong as well? Can anyone imagine this much of a problem with a Catholic or Jewish republican candidate? Maybe I don't understand because I'm not that religious, but wtf?
Wouldn't it be nice if, for one election, the candidates would simply refuse to pander to the extremes of either the left or the right?
Gov. Romney should be ashamed of himself for selling out to the Evangelical movement. When Bob Jones says "your religion is wrong" Mitt says "fine"? Mitt should tell the whole evangelical crowd to pack it and run on the issues. Religion does not always equal values. Just look at the current Oral Roberts scandal and the investigations currently going on with Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, et. al. Romney equivocating on his beliefs to try and fit in with these people and allowing them to constantly insult and degrade his religion while seeking their endorsement shows me a character flaw I cannot abide. When JFK was elected, he made it clear that you were not voting for a Catholic for President but a president who happened to be Catholic. Not once did he try to make his Catholicism something it is not and never did he abandon his Catholicism for the sake of an endorsement. I am Mormon and I will not be voting for Mitt Romney. Ron Paul is now my candidate.
What if all American voters were Mormons, what issues would then have to be addressed? Facing the major challenges of our nation or changing our religion.
I think what Romney is saying is that despite the fact that they don't share the same religion, he is the candidate in the republican field that best represents the "values voters". While he is Mormon and the people who attend Bob Jones are Evangelicals they have alot more in common than they have differences. This is exactly the message he needs to be delivering to this group of voters.
If you are following the campaigns closely, you cannot help but be impressed with what Romney has done. He's a little known governor from a North Eastern State that is leading in all three major primaries. Don't be suprised if you see Romney as the Repub nominee and not Rudy.
How can we have a president that belongs to an cult church that does not believe in Jesus Christ. Instead they worship Moroni (American indian).
Yeah, so this was "leaked?" Please.
The biggest problem that I have with all this is why is Mitt Romney being held to a differnt standard than everyone else? No one is talking about a catholic or a prodestant or a Methodist in the same comparisons that they are with Romney. It's time for people to be fair to all, that I bellieve was what this country was founded on, fairness for all, not fairness for all UNLESS they happen to be of this color or faith or ethic belief. Let's get real folks, talk about the issues, NOT the religions please! Or maybe to be fair, we need to start singling out each relegion for criticism or scrutiny as Mitt Romney is getting now?
"people need to stop asking the government "what can you do for me now?"
Yeah... don't ask the government to do anything for you from now on please. If there is an earthquake in your area... or a hurricane do not ask the government for help... but if you need a foreign country destroyed and rebuilt using your own taxpayer dollars we'd be happy to do that for you.
Also... please never ask for help from those other government agencies... that republicans don't seem to consider socialist but they really are.
Please ban all police and firefighters... provide your own protection from threats internal and external to your home.
Please do not expect the government to educate your kids in the least. You are now required to pay for all their education from birth through college.
Please do not expect healthcare even though it seems to be OK for congress and the military to have complete coverage.
Governors Mormonism a problem?
Why not ask the residents of Mass. if his religion was a problem?
Why not ask the Olympic Organizing Committee if his religion was a problem?
Why not ask the thousands of employees and business execs he has worked with over the years if his religion is a problem?
Why not ask his study partners from Harvard where he got an MBA and JD simultaneously if his religion was a problem?
I know, lets go do the deep south and ask Billy Bob if his religion is a problem...
I find it disheartening that Romney feels it's necessary to try to get the vote of a group that feels that he is a member of a cult. I can't imagine how he must have felt while the dean tried to assure the audience they weren't endorsing Mormonism if they voted for him.
"Good, this just clarifies to me that Romney knows enough to keep his religion out of the office as much as he can."
Sounds like he's my man for 2008"
Sounds like he knows when to tell you what you want to hear. This is the man that said "I will fight harder for gay rights than Ted Kennedy ever will"
He is the one that is MOST likely to put his religios views into his politics. How he feels depends on who he is talking to. We don't need anymore of that!
I have no respect for Bob Jones University or the people who try to court the BJU vote. It is an insult to me and many others who call Catholicism a "cult." Futhermore it is a racially intolerant school, which banned interracial dating till the year 2000, when GW Bush visited the school during the election.
"Although BJU admitted Asians and other minorities from its inception, it refused to enroll black students until 1971"
"Each student is provided with a filtered e-mail account. Using unfiltered Internet access via computer, mobile phone, or satellite phone is prohibited for residence hall students. The university provides content-filtered Internet access for student use that blocks pornography, "lurid violence," racial hate, and other "objectionable content." Internet filters also block Wikipedia in the dorms (but not the library), as well as some blogs and all chat groups and other forms of "unmoderated expression."
DVD/VCRs are not allowed in residence halls; DVD players on computers cannot be used for watching films. Televisions may be used only as monitors to play video games.
Students may not listen to country, jazz, New Age, rock, rap, or contemporary Christian music.
The conservatives talk about the 'indoctrining' of students by 'liberal' professors, this is flat out censorship! Read more about the rules for students, including dress code. Talk about a supposedly christian school...more likely a christian madrassa!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Jones_University
Mitt really ought to keep in mind that it's an evangelical nut–George Bush–who's responsible for a war 70% of the country is disgusted with. It's the evangelical nuts who keep trying to cram, if not their whacko religion itself, down everyone's throats, at least laws based on that whacko religion.
Being know to pander to these nuts is going to imply either tacit approval of their warmongering, intolerant, bigotry or, at least, a willingness to pander to them. Neither is going to do Mitt any good.
Do not try to sway my flock Mitt. You are aligned with Satan, along with all other unbelievers.
Mitt Romney is a charlatan whose opinions change with the slightest whisper. The man ran for US Senate in 1994 promising to be more of an advocate for gays and lesbians than his opponent, Ted Kennedy,and now kisses up to the purveyors of hate and discord. It astonishes me that people cannot see through his political posturing – is it the television-anchor smile and hair? As a Democrat, I would gladly take someone principled like Sam Brownback or Mike Huckabee anyday over Romney, even though I disagree with almost all of their positions.
Roger, you must have been under a rock in the 90s when the Clinton Crime Family (CCF) was being investigated for everything and a family friend commited suicide. Also remember Slick Willy saying he didnt know under oath after he lied under oath.
The simple fact of the matter is that Romney is not, as is being suggested by some herein, "keeping his religion out of the office". He doesn't have the office, yet (and hopefully not at all). What he is doing is keeping his religion out of the campaign. Don't confuse the two, either honestly or deliberately.
Romeny has great hair. And isn't that what really counts?
Romney is a cult member through and through and should not be elected to the highest office of the land so he can pollute the halls of government with mormonism. Pey Lay Ale (mormon temple chant)!
Mormonism is a CULT....
Mitt Romney flip-flopped on abortion, gay marriage, and gun control. Mormonism is the least of his problems.
What a utter joke and phony Romney is.
Just 7 short years ago, here in Massachusetts, he met with liberal groups here telling us how "progressive" he was regarding pro-choice thinking, support of gay rights, and anything else he needed to promise to get elected. His "family values" mean getting the Romney Family into the White House. Period.
Watching him "pitch" the evangelicals now, as he "pitched " us in 2000 is
a sad comment on the Republican party.
The trinity of this man's religious beliefs is: me, myself, and I.
I know one thing for sure...If we ever have a self-admitted Atheist running, I'll be the first person in live at the polls. These evangelicals have steered our Country to a place I no longer recognize. I'm an independent voter, but the closer Repubs get to budding up with the likes of hate mongers Robinson, the closer I move to the left.
Evangelism is a cult.
Dave from Richmond
You are not Mormon, and you're using that line to draw people towards Ron Paul. Fine. Furthermore, you have no issue by Romney's statement about "Fine" either. You know that "fine" is not an indication of one 'selling out' or denouncing one's religion. It is an acknowledgment that we all are entitled to our own views and still work together toward a common cause. Right? "Fine"
Romney is the man to beat. So he may have changed positions on issues. If he's the only candidate doing that, then let all the other candidates that aren't changing positions cast the first stone. Take McCain for example. He just changed his position 2 weeks ago on illegal immigration. Countless other changes – on both sides – I won't even mention.
Here is a temple oath Romney does in the temple – "Health in the navel, marrow in the bones, strength in the loins and in the sinews, power in the priesthood be upon me and upon my posterity through all generations of time and throughout all eternity." This is called the "Second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the patriarchal grip, or sure sign of the nail."
Why the heck to politicians visit Bob Jones U? First Dubya, McCain, and now Mitt. Why are they so anxious to associate themselves with unregenerate racists? There are hundreds and hundreds of colleges who NEVER get a visit from such powerful personages. Do the campaigns care about ordinary students, or just these ultra-marginal mental dead zones?
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
Article VI, Section 3, U.S. Constitution
Will these Republicans stop falling over each other to pander to the least educated class of people in the country?
Alternatively, will the American people stop voting these fascists into office!?
I hope the folks saying "Mormonism is a cult" realize that ALL religions are cults. Thousands of different beliefs and interpretations competing against each other for thousands of years. All based on irrational superstition and myth. How many millions have been tortured, ostracized and murdered to see who's unseen "god" is better than the others?
We need intelligent rational decisions to guide our country and our world as we approach another Dark Age.
Last time I made a similar comment I was called a fool, but who's the fool when you really think about it?
These guys will say anything to get a vote
I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers – and it was not there . . . in her fertile fields and boundless forests and it was not there . . . in her rich mines and her vast world commerce – and it was not there . . . in her democratic Congress and her matchless Constitution – and it was not there. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great.
every Christmas when you are not at work, remember there should be separation between church and state.
Romney didn't flip-flop on civil unions or gay-marriage:
"A review of Romney's remarks shows that at an October 2002 campaign debate, he said: "Call me old fashioned, but I don't support gay marriage nor do I support civil union." Then, after the SJC decision legalizing same-sex marriage, he told WCVB on Dec. 17, 2003, that if he had to choose, he would favor civil unions over full-fledged gay marriage. However, he added: "But that is not my preference overall. My preference overall would be neither civil union or marriage."
-Boston Globe
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/02/23/romneys_stance_on_civil_unions_draws_fire/
Bill, Bloomington IL...No Bill I was not under a rock in the 90's...I remember well all of the millions spent by you extremest trying to find something on the Clintons I don't recall any convictions...and all the hupla over Bill & Monica yes he was wrong but you holier than thou right wingers make such a big deal our of everything the dems do...yet when GW & his corrupt administration lie to the entire world about WMD and Iraq, Craig taps his foot in a men's bathroom, Vitter visits call girls, need I go on....you extremests want to ignore it & act holier than thou....Well Bill those days are over we DEMS are standing our ground with you right wingers...
If Romney is elected president, women will have no rights. The mormons believe that a woman cannot go to heaven unless she is married and can only obtain heaven thru the good works of her husband. There isn't a dime's worth of different in Warren Jeffs and Romney and Jeffs is going to prison if he don't kill himself first. The right wingers better look long and hard at the difference in their christian and the cult religion of Romney
Good grief people! Enough with the uninformed, unintelligent Mormon bashing. It is obvious some of you have never taken the time to understand other people's religious beliefs, whether Jewish, Mormon, Catholic, etc. If you look at any relgion, you'll find "different" beliefs or doctrines that are indeed odd to you, but not bad, just different.
It is obvious that Romney isn't putting his personal beliefs into politics, he's way too smart and level headed for that. If he makes the ballot, he has my vote. If not, Obama all the way. Hillary is too shrewd, cold, calculated and manipulative to be in office.
Bob Jones son, Rob Jones, is GAY. Know him well. I wonder what Jones senior thinks about that... In regards to Romney, whomever believes a politician trying to get elected should remember the "read my lips" issue tith Bush Sr.
It is so sad that a lunatic fringe like the evangelicals wield so much power (though I believe it is definitely on the wane – thanks in part to corruption/scandals and their idiot in the White House).
These are the same twits who think the earth is 6,000 years old, that "Intelligent Design" is on par with evolution as a viable scientific theory, deny global warming, are anti-science, and are chomping at the bit to go to complete war with the Muslim world to trigger the rapture.
If these groups would focus less on gay marriage, public displays of the Ten Commandments, prayer in school, abstinence-only sex education, etc., – and more on solving the problems of poverty, educational & economic inequality, oppression in all forms, and strive for world peace, then they'd be a group worth associating with.
I believe it's time to start taxing the churches and universities that are in the political arena.
Romney is a good man who is running the best campaign in either field. For those of you who are liberals or progressives and, while defending Obama's skin color and Hillary's gender, you attack Romney's religion, you should be ashamed of your hypocrisy.
The fact of the matter is that southern Christians, Catholics and Mormons all have doctrinal differences that might seem significant from within one of those religious world views. However, the fact remains that southern Christians and Mormons are share almost identical values in terms of abortion, gay marriage and the free exercise of religion. Utah, the one state dominated by Mormons, was the most Republican state in the 2004 election, followed by a few southern states dominated by Christian conservatives. The doctrines are different, but the values are the same. Mormonism shouldn't be an issue here at all for the southern Christians.
Warren Jeffs has no chance of winning over the evangelical right.
Oh, wait... I must have "inadvertantly" referred to a presidential candidate by the wrong name. I assure you, Mr. Romney, it was an innocent mistake.
Obama in 08.
His father was born in Mexico. Look it up.
CNN, you censor the wrong things.
and this is news? Jeez, the headline writers at CNN must've come from The National Enquirer.
I like Romney – I'm going to vote for him.
Anybody who can be deceived by Mormons would probably be deceived by enemies both foreign and domestic. Vote No for Romney.
To jeannie in sacramento: Jeannie do you really think if we caugh bin laden Islamic terrorism would stop and we would be back to rainbows and flowers world wide ? WAKE UP honey .
As a Bapitst, I am shocked at the hypocrisy of Dr. Richard Land of the SBC. If, in fact, he were genuine in his espousal that we are not electing a "pastor-in-chief" (and, presumably would gladly see a Morman elected president), perhaps he can explain why the SBC had historically extended the invitation to every US president over the last century to address their convention, yet abruptly stopped the practice when Clinton and Gore were elected in 1992.
Ironically, not only were Clinton and Gore not the pastors-in-chief, but, on the contrary, they represented the first time that both the sitting U.S. President and Vice President were members of the SBC. Yet the SBC power elite wanted nothing to do with them.
The SBC clearly has lost its way. It is not about professing a theological or evangelical point of view (otherwise they couldn't simultaneously snub fellow Southern Baptists, yet welcome the prospect of electing a Morman president). Instead, the SBC now is exclusively dedicated to wielding its power to pursue a very narrow political agenda.
I'll pray for them.
If it is not a good thing for Mitt Romney to be a Mormon running for office, what about Senator Harry Reid (D-Nevada) who is also a Mormon? Should he resign, or should he switch to the republican party? Just a thought...
Tim from Buffalo,
That's all America needs – another bitter ex-Mormon who feels like he needs to "warn" everyone about Mormons. Just for your information, Mormons are not the only ones who feel like these are the last days – are we all terrorists who read the revelations of Paul and apply it to our lives? We are still a nation that believes in God and in the Bible. You're basically saying that Mormons are terrorists, which really, really makes you look foolish.
Of course Romney changes his position constantly whenever it is politically expedient. He learned it in church.
The Mormon church changed their belief in polygamy in order to get Utah to become a state. How many other religions change their beliefs in order to get something from the government?
Mormons aren't Christians? Give me a break! If Mormons aren't Christians, then what is a Christian? Mormons are probably the most devout Christians on the planet. People say they believe in Christ, but do they actually believe and practice what Christ taught? Mormons do (in general), and they are blessed for it. Their religion makes some pretty significant claims: God guides his children to happiness by revealing his will through modern prophets (just as he always has), and that we can distinguish truth (God's will) from error through the power of the Holy Ghost (that burning sensation you get when you know something is right). Isn't this what Christ taught? Mormons believe wholeheartedly in this. If this is what Romney believes, I have no problem having him as my president.
Left or right, does Roger in Conway SC really think that voting Democratic in 2008 will eliminate corruption? You have got to be kidding.
Does Romney, like all good Mormons, practice lying for the lord? God help us.
Holy Smokes, I hope most of you are not registered voters. The Mormon-hater comments are really disturbing, these are the people that claim to be accepting of others! LOL, Hypocrites!...See its easy just to spout off an adjective.
JT:
maybe they didn't get any fodder because there isn't any...did you think of that?
I'm dismayed at the fact that so many Americans believe in this fantasy called religion. It clearly represents how afraid people are of the void. Don't be afraid, you will return to the same void you remember from before your birth. People will respect each other when you understand that the here, and now is everything. To those who have had a personal conversation with a diety in your living room, there's a mental health clinic near you. GW knows the address.
Without trying to attack the views of others:
At one point, Pastor Wilton states "This is not a conversation about a person, it is about a religion that drives a person to do what he does."
What does Mormonism drive people to do? Pastor Wilton answers this question: "The people of the Mormon religion are very highly astute, highly family-oriented, deeply character-driven people."
And yet, he says "Mormonism does make me nervous, because I am a Christian, and because the precepts and principles, and more importantly, the practices of Mormonism have cause for great concern."
Without trying to cast stones, doesn't this seem a little contradictory?
The church that Christ established was regarded to be a sect, and "everywhere it was spoken against." (Acts 28:22)
It would be nice if those opposing Mormons could simply agree to disagree.
Fact: Romney changed from a position of being effectively pro-choice (by saying that he would not change abortion law in Massachusetts) to being pro-life when faced with the decision as to whether or not to allow human cloning for research. Not a flip flop, but a genuine, heart-felt change of position that landed on the side of life.
Fact: Romney has always supported equal treatment of gays and lesbians in employment and other aspects of society, but he has always opposed both civil unions and any redefinition of traditional marriage to be anything other than between a man and a woman. He most definitely did NOT initiate "gay marriage" in Massachusetts; on the contrary, he did everything within his legal power as governor to fight against this product of a liberal judiciary. Sorry folks, but there's no flip-flop here either.
The simple fact is that the "flip-flop" label was manufactured by the liberal media and the Democratic National Committee because there is literally no other way for them to oppose a candidate like Romney who is not only the most qualified person to offer himself up for public service in a generation, but is also above reproach in his personal and business life. In short, they are scared to death of him politically.
In other circles, the flip-flop label is thrown out as a convenient reason to not support him by those who often are opposed to him because of his religion–but won't admit up to it. For such people, there are usually two reasons for everything–the real reason, and the one that sounds good...
Bigots who slam other religions and murmur things about Satan are more of a cult than mormons could possibly be.
Is believing that God was once a man and that you can become a God with your own set of planets any more strange than God speaking through a bush or every creature and humankind being saved on a boat?
Yes. Yes it is. And someone that can be deluded into that and other Mormon beliefs should not hold the most powerful position on THIS planet.
Mitt will say anything to get to be President. Like other GOP leaders who use God as a front just to be able to continue the criminal crime wave. I guess these GOP candidates think Christian people are stupid and will believe anything. God isn't part of any Government but these GOP Law Makers are using His name. Mitt will fall like his Father did. Mitt thinks he can lie and buy the Oval Office like George W. Bush did. Mitt isn't more Christian then the other GOP candidates as he doesn't think minorities are worth his time. Even God loves everyone regardless of color. Maybe Bush's base will remember that.
Juan Rivera:
Where did you get your information from? The "Mormon" church is actually called "the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints." They do believe in Jesus Christ, as the only person who can save them....sounds to me like you need to do some better research before you spout off about things you don't know anything about.
Mormon theology may seem strange to non-Mormons, but Christian theology is equally far-reaching in its speculations about where all this came from and why we are here. The psychological and historical processes that created Mormon theology are very similar, surely, to the processes that created Christian theology. The two groups are more similar than they are different, kind of like Shiites and Sunnis.
What Romney is telling them is that, apart from theology, which occurs only in the minds of men and women, he is like them. That is surely true. Non-smoking, non-drinking, clean language, fidelity to some/any church, regular church attendance, avoidance of sexuality in language and gesture, condemnation of sexual or anti-religious material in art and literature, adherence to majority codes of propriety, do as you're told, think as you're told, and go to heaven is the basic message of both groups. They may quibble over angels' names (Michael or Moroni) and over who exactly will be allowed in heaven, but the Judeo-Christian sects are experts at theological tiffs.
What is also clear is that if you are NOT Mormon and NOT evangelical, then you are on the outside looking in. Your opinions are not important to either group.
I would hope that the evangelical community would have the intelligence to endorse Mitt Romney for his obvious qualifications and for where he stands on the issues that are important to our country. To do otherwise is ignorant and verges on relegious paranoia.
Pat Roberston's recent endorsement of Giuliani for the Republican nomination has made me question the integrity of any real concern over Mr. Romney's relegios beliefs. If evangelicals were really so concerned about the differences in their sects, why would they endorse a man who is so obviously in favor of everything they are opposed to? Is this really just another opportuntiy for the evangelical community to BASH a relegion that doesn't line up with their own? Not a very Christian thing to do. The whole thing makes me question the sincerity and integrity of the evangelical community. To follow Giuliani tells me that your beliefs aren't that important to you after all.
I know an awful lot of people who are Mormons. They are overwhelmingly good, honest, hardworking people who are Christian despite what the evangelicals think. Isn't the name of their church the Church of JESUS CHRIST? Strange coincidence for people who are supposedly not Christian.
Mitt Romney has my vote over Giuliani hands down. I don't care what relegion he is. I'm looking for a President, not a preacher!
GO MITT!
Tim Bartlett Buff NY you are an IDIOT!!!
"As a Bapitst, I am shocked...The SBC clearly has lost its way...I'll pray for them." – John, Columbus, Ohio
I was raised a Baptist, and I think most Baptists would agree with me that if any five Baptists found a church then by the end of the year two of them would have withdrawn due to the heretical beliefs of the other three.
I am a Southern Baptist who proudly supports Ron Paul. He has the most conservative voting record and this is verifiable. Pro-life, Pro-2nd Amendment, Pro-family, Pro-limited government, low taxes, and is one of the few GOP candidates to actually have worked with and received endorsements from Ronald Reagan.
Ron Paul has the largest percentage of donations from military personnel.
Ron Paul wants to give you a big raise by eliminating the IRS. At one time, the GOP was for limited government, balanced budgets and no policing the world...those were the good old days. Now we're borrowing from China to pay for the Iraq War and Bush will make sure we're neck-deep in Iran before Spring 2008 if not by the end of his administration. Our children and grandchildren will be saddled with a $9 trillion debt while paying for our Social Security benefits; this is absolutely insane.
How can we have a president that belongs to an cult church that does not believe in Jesus Christ. Instead they worship Moroni (American indian).
Posted By Juan Rivera, Wichita, KS : November 9, 2007 2:15 pm
Are you kidding me?? Seriously what is wrong with you people know what your talking about be for you TALK!!!!
I went to high school with Mitt Romney. It was small enough that I got to know him well. As a Unitarian, I have always been on the opposite end of the religious spectrum from Mitt, yet I can assure you there is no one I have ever known who is more ethical, honest, forthright and capable. I can think of no other candidate for the office who would be a better President of the United States, than Mitt Romney.
Harry Reid = Mormon
Mitt Romney = Mormon
I guess that it is ok for a democrat like me to vote Romney!
I cannot believe the ignorance of the Mormon faith. All negative comments against the Mormon religion are erroneous. For example, Julia proclaims that Mormon women cannot achieve heaven unless they are married to spiritual men and are reliant upon their husband for their salvation. I suppose Julia has no problem being dishonest about a religion that she knows nothing about. Nice comment Juan about the worshiping of an American Indian. Apparently the name of the Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and its doctrine of believing that only through Christ can man be saved, is a carefully constructed lie to mask the fact that Mormons don't believe in Jesus and actually worship a Native American. Also, Mormons practice polygamy. It's simply lucky that the millions of Mormons in the US have not been caught and prosecuted for having multiple wives. How about thinking before typing out words on your computer?
Any canidate who feels that they must go and prostitute themselves at Bob Jones U. in order to get a few votes does not deserve the office of president.
Also, about flip-flopping. I think it is okay to change your mind about your personnel views. Who hasn't? If you were to go through life without changing your mind on anything then your brain is dead. I see lots of things differently now from when I was younger. But when you change your mind just to buy a few votes that says a lot about your ethics.
"Roger, you must have been under a rock in the 90s when the Clinton Crime Family (CCF) was being investigated for everything and a family friend commited suicide. Also remember Slick Willy saying he didnt know under oath after he lied under oath.
Posted By Bill, Bloomington IL : November 9, 2007 2:31 pm "
Bill, why do you and other Republicans continue to fall back on the Clinton administration? It's back in the past. The Republicans spent millions of our tax dollars trying to get something on Clinton and they couldn't except for a lie he told about him and Monica. Big whoop. He didn't lie and get us into a war did he? He didn't fill his administration with incompetent cronies did he? He created a budget surplus which Bush immediately flushed away. And regarding the suicide, why don't you come up with some proof that the Clintons had anything to do with it? Check out the Bush family before you call the Clintons criminals and stick with what the current administration has been doing and how most of the Republican presidential hopefuls will most likely follow in Bush's footsteps.
Quite aside from the Romney campaign, I am amazed by the bigotry expressed in many of the postings on this site. It saddens and confuses me that people claiming to follow Christ would fume so much hatred upon the very neighbors he commanded them to love. I have known and associated with Mormons all my life, and have never found anything the least bit cultish in their practices or beliefs. Those of you who have been indoctrinated to believe it is a cult and that somehow that makes it okay for you to broadcast rampant disrespect and hatred need to take a good look inside yourself and ask yourselves why you're behaving this way.
why do so many of you still think there is a difference between any of them?
the only candidate that is not the same old evil sell out is Ron Paul.
every Christmas when you are not at work, remember there should be separation between church and state.
Posted By Bill, Bloomington IL : November 9, 2007 2:53 pm
Aside from being totally irrelevant, the Constitution calls for a separation of church and state. The Supreme Court has ruled to that effect...so what's your point Bill? Are you unAmerican? If you want government sponsored religion move to Iran.
We really need to get religion out of the Presidential race. I want somebody that is fair and tolerant and can work with all people. Religion does more harm than good when you mix it with running the country. All those "Christian Conservatives" are now ready to vote for Rudy. Guess that makes them all liars when it comes to their religion.
To Bryan in Firestone, CO
I am Mormon, baptized 11 years ago, and currently serve in a bishopric. I was non-committal until recently but leaning toward Mitt because of his business acumen. This business with courting the Bob Jones types turned me totally away from his campaign and the next closest candidate I support is Ron Paul. So, I am glad you know me well enough that you know my religion and you also know that I have no issue with "fine". I do have an issue with him saying "fine" since he didn't say he disagreed with the LDS faith, but the LDS faith was wrong. As a member of the Church in Baptist-land like me would not try to ingratiate themselves to someone of that ilk. Bryan, please don't think that every Mormon is going to vote for Mitt Romney. I do have a brain and think for myself and have voted for the democratic presidential candidate the last four elections. I also hope that Mitt Romney in courting the votes of these misguided folks who hate us out of blind ignorance doesn't take the Mormon vote for granted.
"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Ratified during Washington's term by the Senate. The US is NOT a theocracy, and never
should be.
Technically, all discussions of law involve some form of ethics. Most discussions of ethics involve religion. The US Constitution does not call for a separation of church and state, but that the State may not establish a Church (ie the Church of England). Don't get me wrong, it's interpretted that this means to keep things separate, but lets not play pretend that morality can ever be separated from many people's faith...and frankly if they truly believe why should it be? There is nothing wrong with religion. I am tired of people cramming both sides in my face. Voting based on your values is important, but voting only based on faith is foolish. We are dealing with people, not God.
Considering the racist history of both Bob Jones U and the Mormon Church, they can have each other.
The LDS church maintains a racist doctrine which teaches that blacks were “less valiant” spirits in what Mormons believe to have been a pre-existence. Church leaders have taught for 175 years that being born with black skin and features (the mark of Cain) was punishment by God for their “less than faithful” actions. Based on this doctrine, the Mormon Church prohibited blacks from holding the LDS Priesthood until 1978 when it lifted the ban following tremendous public pressure including a threat to revoke their tax exempt status.
Romney has publicly stated that he is not a “cafeteria” Mormon who picks and chooses which doctrines he will accept. Romney was 31 years old at the time the Church lifted the ban which means that for a significant portion of his adult life he accepted his church’s teaching that blacks are inherently inferior.
Does Romney still believe that he is more "valiant" or “worthy” than blacks by virtue of being born Caucasian? If he didn't believe that people of color were inferior during his adult life before the ban was lifted, then why did he remain a member – tacitly supporting the ban and its doctrinal underpinnings? Did he counsel members to not accept this church teaching when he was a church missionary, bishop or stake president? Did he lobby his church leaders to disavow the doctrine and change their teaching?
Please note that while the church has changed its policy of prohibiting blacks from holding its priesthood, it has never renounced the doctrine that led to the ban in the first place. It has never disavowed or removed from the church cannon the scripture that the doctrine is based upon (i.e. Pearl of Great Price). It has never renounced or apologized for racist statements made by its leaders. It is interesting to note that while nearly 30 years have passed since the ban was lifted, not a single black face appears in the upper echelons of Mormon church leadership.
Once again, Mr. Romney blurs the definition of 'Mormon' and 'Moron.' What a pandering scum bag....
There mere fact that Mitt Romney believes that he needs the support of the evangelicals indicates to me that he is not worthy of being the GOP presidential candidate.
Republicans need a candidate who can think outside the box; still stay within the bounds of Constitution and the law; and not sell his or her soul to the devil, Pat Roberston, Dick Land, Bob Jones University Alumni ... but I repeat myself.
People keep trying to paint attacks on Mitt as attacks on Mormons. I know very little about Mormonism and have no opinion on it, but I know Mitt is a shallow flip-flopper and is mouthing dangerous extremist views. I've worked for Mormons, and have had them marry into my family and we've had a lot of laughs. If I criticize Giuliani does that make me anti-Catholic? If I criticize Dubya, does that make me anti-idiot?
Invitation only.Standard operating proceedure for the republican party.Even their campaign speeches and rallies are SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS!They are selling the country down the river before they are even nominated.
FOX NEWS idiots,go back to your network,it's time for your daily brainwashing!Romney,Rudy etal are taking care of the whitewashing.
One poster said "The qualifications of a good president DO NOT include his religious preference.
If that is true, why is Mitt having secret "invitation only" meetings with Southern Baptists ... he's trying to gain votes from voters who believe religion is the only criteria ...
Two faced? Two sided? Wearing his flip-flops?
As a former student of BJU I am excited to see Romney reaching out to Christians. Religion is what one bases their belief system on and Romney is showing that even though he belives in a different way to get to heaven, which isn't important in being President, he still holds the same high morals that TRUE Chirstians hold.
God has no concern for American politics. I am far too busy elsewhere.
Does anybody commenting actually believe that Hillary Clinton is having no "private", or "by invitation only" meetings.....Get real!
If two canidates were exactly the same except one was of my religion and one was of another or none at all I would vote for the one that was my religion. Period.
I was a student at Bob Jones University. I dropped out and finished my education at PSI Institute in Columbus, Ohio. Bob Jones U. from what I saw at the time (late '80s) was an extreme right wing college...but was not racist. In fact, the last year I was there, a black student won the "Preacher Award" which is the biggest prize in the University. It does push it's brand of right-wing politics, but so does Berkley when they crank out their left-wing politics.
Getting back to the subject, not quite sure why they are backing Romney. When I was there, they hated the Catholic religion big time.
WatchingHillary.com
Does anybody commenting actually believe that Hillary Clinton is having no "private", or "by invitation only" meetings…..Get real!
Posted By DHunter, Orem, UT : November 9, 2007 7:11 pm
Excellent point DHunter and if the sheep look down a little further on this site they would find a blog where Billyboy had a "members only meeting" with black folks and they were clearing the sidewalks of ANYONE that they didn't want in such as the media.
He even flip flopped on whether the media was invited or not, must be "someone elses fault".
I wish I was enlightened enough to say his mormonism shouldn't be a consideration, but it is. Mormonism is an abomination, a cult, and a blasphemy. Sorry dude. You ain't gettin' my vote. Too creepy.
To Bryan in Fireston, CO:
You need to stop assuming because you are as wrong as you can be. I am indeed a member of the LDS church currently serving in a bishopric. Further, I do take exception to when Mitt says "Fine" to someone who insults his religion. My faith is part of me and insulting it is insulting me. It is fine to disagree with the doctrine, but to say what I believe is "wrong" or I am in an "erroneous" religion as Bob Jones said is beyond reproach and "fine" is an inadequate response. So please, stop making assumptions much like Mitt Romney needs to not assume all Mormons are going to vote for him. His pandering to these hate mongering, self-righteous so-called "Christians" is sickening and has driven my support from him. I am now supporting Ron Paul because he is his own man and is consistent in his convictions. I am Mormon, I am a Christian, and I will not support any candidate who panders to those who have such a blind and ignorant hatred toward my faith.
It's too bad that he has to justify his religion at all. Religion in this election has got way out of hand. What has happened to pure spirituality? I think religion has destroyed it.
I think the man that grew up with Mitt Romney bottom lined it best. Although I am not Mitt Romney same faith and have a different view. I have never met anyone more qualified to be President of the United States then Mitt. This coming from a guy that grew up with him.
I can tell you one thing I know for sure, Mitt Romney is the GUY WE NEED TO RUN THIS COUNTRY at this time, not since Ronald Reagan have I seen a more capable guy.
It tells me another thing too, there is alot of nut jobs that make uninformed comments before thinking.
GO ROMNEY !
Romney has phony written all over him!!
Tony, Tulsa OK
"Will these Republicans stop falling over each other to pander to the least educated class of people in the country?"
Ok really??? I am not a supporter of this school but i am Christian and I find it offensive that you think religion denotes intellect. I find it very concerning that a large portion of the US is being called unintelligent by someone who has not ever met most these people. religion and beliefs don't make one stupid, ignorance does. I guess that means you will be keeping all those people you cut down company in the bottom of the intelligence pool.
Gary Howard. Bristol, NH:
Very compelling testimony, thank you. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I also think that Mitt Romney was born to be President of our great nation – the United States of America.
Gary:
1st: Sorry. Government has always been accused of forgetting about the people while ensuring their privileges. Politics is about power [that's why the religious right is so torn about this next election that they are willing to vote for a guy who supported a woman's right to choose]. Sadly, with power come privileges. We both don't like that, but let's not kid ourselves about some misty Camelotonain past. Ever since the Jacksonian Revolution, when we, the people decided not to leave politics to the arisocracy, government has been awash in privilege. Call it "The Spoils System, Tammany Hall, or Good Old Fashion patronage. The Democratic Congress didn't start this–nor the Republican Congress.
However, bemoaning the Democratic Congress as a "give away Congress" is really slight of hand. Were you out there bemaoning the Republican Congress when it was funding bridges to nowhere? When it was "spending money like a drunken sailor?" That is a quote from John McCain. It was a Republican Congress that, amidst a war on terror, spent so foolishly that fiscal Republicans have turned on the party.
As for "give aways" aimed at welfare moms, I hate welfare cheats too, but not everyone who accepts Government help is a welfare cheat, besides the rules are clearly tougher these days. Also, while we're talking about welfare cheats, would you like to add some venom in terms of corporate welfare–like Halliburton. If you want to know who is really ripping off our tax dollars look at the corporations with the lobbyists in DC and at the State levels. Aaah, I know, that's business and they're allowed to cheat and steal. I bet the fact that they are largely led by white, male, Republicans doesn't hurt either. Besides, it's always easier to beat on the lowly, sinning individual, then the high and powerful organization.
As for Clinton, religion, morals and the Presidency, your analysis may be too rosey. Yes, Clinton's actions as a man were embarrassing, but his decisions as a President were pretty darned sound [compare our experiences in Bosnia to those our misguided adventure in Iraq]. We ended up with Bush because he was sold as the anti-Clinton. He's been personally moral, but his policies [all based on lies and deceptions] have resulted in how many dead soldiers? As the bumper sticker goes: When Clinton lied, nobody dies."
As for electing a woman, if you raised that, we will never see eye-to-eye; however, at this point, if this were 2004 again, I'd elect a trained Chimpanzee rather than Bush. If all he had was a 50:50 chance of doing right by the people, he'd trounce Georgie W. I would take Hillary in a heart beat over any of the current flip/flop Republicans [only Sam Brownback is consistent], though I do think the current field could at least give the Chimpanzee a tough go.
I elect a person for their judgement first
"I can tell you one thing I know for sure, Mitt Romney is the GUY WE NEED TO RUN THIS COUNTRY at this time, not since Ronald Reagan have I seen a more capable guy."
Quote from Ronald Reagan:
"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."