Comments on: Romney ready to address Mormon religion head-on http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/ All politics, all the time Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:07:36 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: David G., Las Vegas, Nevada http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-172223 David G., Las Vegas, Nevada Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:13:17 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-172223 Romney has it right. he has every right to explain to the US that mormonism is not what people say it is. mormonism is not a cult. it is just another form of christianity. anyone that says that romney is lying about the religion are rediculous, how can you think he's lying if you know nothing about the religion? if a homosexual ran for office no one would worry or question it, but when it comes to this, people get all hectic and freak out, it's just rediculous and proposterous. Romney has it right. he has every right to explain to the US that mormonism is not what people say it is. mormonism is not a cult. it is just another form of christianity. anyone that says that romney is lying about the religion are rediculous, how can you think he's lying if you know nothing about the religion? if a homosexual ran for office no one would worry or question it, but when it comes to this, people get all hectic and freak out, it's just rediculous and proposterous.

]]> By: JP, Boise ID http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-170911 JP, Boise ID Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:42:40 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-170911 Here is the primary point, folks ... Mormons believe the seated president of their church (currently, Hinckley) to be a living prophet What could Romney do when contacted by his church president on a matter of national policy, but follow his prophet's "revelation" ? Scary ? Here is the primary point, folks ...

Mormons believe the seated president of their church (currently, Hinckley) to be a living prophet

What could Romney do when contacted by his church president on a matter of national policy, but follow his prophet's "revelation" ?

Scary ?

]]> By: Ted Potter Blackfoot , Idaho http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-170796 Ted Potter Blackfoot , Idaho Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:46:22 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-170796 those of you who so openly are against Mitt Romney know nothing about the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. The name alone lets you know these people are christen,and that christ is the center of their lives. Here is their first article of faith 1.We believe in God the Eternal Father and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. Now do your homework and find out the other 12, then make your decision on whether these people are Christen or not. those of you who so openly are against Mitt Romney know nothing about the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. The name alone lets you know these people are christen,and that christ is the center of their lives. Here is their first article of faith 1.We believe in God the Eternal Father and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. Now do your homework and find out the other 12, then make your decision on whether these people are Christen or not.

]]> By: manaen, SoCal http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-169079 manaen, SoCal Wed, 05 Dec 2007 03:28:07 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-169079 <i>Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.</i> -- 2 Nephi 32:3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

– 2 Nephi 32:3

]]> By: manaen, SoCal http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-169055 manaen, SoCal Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:59:40 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-169055 <i>Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.</i> -- The Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 32:3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

– The Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 32:3

]]> By: manaen, SoCal http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168721 manaen, SoCal Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:46:24 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168721 Re: <b>Are Mormons Christian?</b> The Book of Mormon, Jacob 4: . 10 Wherefore, brethren, seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand. For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy, over all his works. . 11 Wherefore, beloved brethren, be reconciled unto him through the <b>atonement of Christ, his Only Begotten Son</b>, and ye may obtain a resurrection, according to the power of the <b>resurrection which is in Christ</b>, and be presented as the <b>first-fruits of Christ</b> unto God, having faith, and obtained a good hope of glory in him before he manifesteth himself in the flesh. . 12 And now, beloved, marvel not that I tell you these things; for why not speak of the <b>atonement of Christ</b>, and attain to a perfect knowledge of him, as to attain to the knowledge of a resurrection and the world to come? Re: Are Mormons Christian?

The Book of Mormon, Jacob 4:
.
10 Wherefore, brethren, seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand. For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy, over all his works.
.
11 Wherefore, beloved brethren, be reconciled unto him through the atonement of Christ, his Only Begotten Son, and ye may obtain a resurrection, according to the power of the resurrection which is in Christ, and be presented as the first-fruits of Christ unto God, having faith, and obtained a good hope of glory in him before he manifesteth himself in the flesh.
.
12 And now, beloved, marvel not that I tell you these things; for why not speak of the atonement of Christ, and attain to a perfect knowledge of him, as to attain to the knowledge of a resurrection and the world to come?

]]> By: Jim St Louis Mo http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168559 Jim St Louis Mo Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:20:11 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168559 Atheism - let me see, a frog into a prince? This life time is all you get. WOW, what a disappointment. Faith in something greater than this -who would want that? Atheism – let me see, a frog into a prince? This life time is all you get. WOW, what a disappointment. Faith in something greater than this -who would want that?

]]> By: Richard Smith, Derby, Connecticut http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168479 Richard Smith, Derby, Connecticut Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:44:42 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168479 What's my problem with Mitt & Mormonism? Let me see, just off the top of my head: Joseph Smith...Occultism....Masonry and Mormon Temple Ceremonies....Kinderhook plates ....Ha Ha Ha... it's times like these that I thank god I'm an atheist. What's my problem with Mitt &
Mormonism? Let me see, just off the top of my head: Joseph Smith...Occultism....Masonry and Mormon Temple Ceremonies....Kinderhook plates ....Ha Ha Ha... it's times like these that I thank god I'm an atheist.

]]> By: Jim St Louis MO http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168216 Jim St Louis MO Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:21:35 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168216 Mike "Claims to be written"- wasn't it revealed to Joseph Smith, he read it (him only), and then it was taken back to heaven. Why would God do that? Christ hung on the Cross for all to see - his resurrection was seen by witnesses, his teachings were written and confirmed by different writers. If heaven is indeed real (and more importantly Hell) I would hope that you would rest your faith on grace - not works - nobody that I have met is good enough to enter heaven on their own merits. No one. Not even Mitt Romney. Mike

"Claims to be written"- wasn't it revealed to Joseph Smith, he read it (him only), and then it was taken back to heaven. Why would God do that? Christ hung on the Cross for all to see – his resurrection was seen by witnesses, his teachings were written and confirmed by different writers. If heaven is indeed real (and more importantly Hell) I would hope that you would rest your faith on grace – not works – nobody that I have met is good enough to enter heaven on their own merits. No one. Not even Mitt Romney.

]]> By: Ben, Norcross, GA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168061 Ben, Norcross, GA Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:32:48 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168061 Steve- well, I get what you are saying but you have to remember that the canon was a work of man not God. I do not put my faith in man but in God. men decided the canon and where the books went. so not much there to discuss. but why would God chose not to reveal anything to our time. does he not love us, too? does he not speak to you by the holy spirit? and why do we have the "stick" of Judah and where is the "stick" of Joseph that Ezekiel speaks of. You see, God believes that both are important not just the record of Judah. Steve- well, I get what you are saying but you have to remember that the canon was a work of man not God. I do not put my faith in man but in God. men decided the canon and where the books went. so not much there to discuss. but why would God chose not to reveal anything to our time. does he not love us, too? does he not speak to you by the holy spirit? and why do we have the "stick" of Judah and where is the "stick" of Joseph that Ezekiel speaks of. You see, God believes that both are important not just the record of Judah.

]]> By: Mike, D.C. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168007 Mike, D.C. Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:06:02 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-168007 Jim, Mormons use the Book of Mormon (singular) to support Jesus Christ, similarly to how they use the Old Testament to support him. It also contains prophecies pointing to the coming of Christ, similar to the OT. So far as I am aware, nowhere in the Old Testament does it insist there will be a New Testament, or any other future body of scripture. The Book of Mormon claims to have been written between 600 b.c. and 400 a.d. in a geographically distant place from Palestine- during the same period of time the body of work which was later edited to become the New Testament was written in. Neither work would be likely to refer to the other, as it would be geographically and temporally impossible, beyond the speculation that the Atonement of Christ might actually apply to peoples outside Palestine, and who might have some notice of it from similar ancient prophecy as the Jewish people, rather than finding out about it in extreme hindsight 1500 years later. The Book of Mormon isn't intended to be a replacement for either the Bible or Christ, but rather a supplementary witness OF Christ, from the perspective of another people. You may not like it or believe in it, but your line of argument is illogical. Mike Jim,

Mormons use the Book of Mormon (singular) to support Jesus Christ, similarly to how they use the Old Testament to support him. It also contains prophecies pointing to the coming of Christ, similar to the OT.

So far as I am aware, nowhere in the Old Testament does it insist there will be a New Testament, or any other future body of scripture. The Book of Mormon claims to have been written between 600 b.c. and 400 a.d. in a geographically distant place from Palestine- during the same period of time the body of work which was later edited to become the New Testament was written in. Neither work would be likely to refer to the other, as it would be geographically and temporally impossible, beyond the speculation that the Atonement of Christ might actually apply to peoples outside Palestine, and who might have some notice of it from similar ancient prophecy as the Jewish people, rather than finding out about it in extreme hindsight 1500 years later.

The Book of Mormon isn't intended to be a replacement for either the Bible or Christ, but rather a supplementary witness OF Christ, from the perspective of another people. You may not like it or believe in it, but your line of argument is illogical.

Mike

]]> By: J. Denver, CO http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167911 J. Denver, CO Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:56:37 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167911 Jeff Fort Collins (GO COLORADO) One minor point. John that wrote the gospel and john that wrote the book of revelation were two different people and the books were written years apart. Just an FYI. Adios! Jeff Fort Collins (GO COLORADO)

One minor point. John that wrote the gospel and john that wrote the book of revelation were two different people and the books were written years apart. Just an FYI. Adios!

]]> By: Jim St Louis MO http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167902 Jim St Louis MO Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:49:52 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167902 Interesting how people use the Book of Mormons to support Mormons. The New Testament (Jesus) is supported by the Old Testament (prophecy) in the Bible, therefore it would mean the Book of Mormons should of been pointed to in the Old Testament and New Testaments - HHHHMMMMMMM? Interesting how people use the Book of Mormons to support Mormons. The New Testament (Jesus) is supported by the Old Testament (prophecy) in the Bible, therefore it would mean the Book of Mormons should of been pointed to in the Old Testament and New Testaments – HHHHMMMMMMM?

]]> By: Eric, Washington DC http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167731 Eric, Washington DC Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:34:33 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167731 I am a Mormon. I am NOT a Republican. I do not support Mitt Romney. I believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible. I do not consider myself a Christian, because too many people have ruined that for those who believe in Christ. Something tells me Jesus would probably agree. I think one of the worst things that happens in this country is the mixture of Church and State. Oh, and I like gay people too. I am a Mormon.
I am NOT a Republican.
I do not support Mitt Romney.
I believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible.
I do not consider myself a Christian, because too many people have ruined that for those who believe in Christ.
Something tells me Jesus would probably agree.
I think one of the worst things that happens in this country is the mixture of Church and State.
Oh, and I like gay people too.

]]> By: Politics or nothing! Houston TX http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167722 Politics or nothing! Houston TX Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:21:37 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167722 #1 Mormons are actually Christian. They blieve that it is through Jesus Christ that Salvation comes to all people who seek it. Sounds Christian to me. No matter how ticked off it makes other Christians. I wonder why it bothers them so much that Mormons are also Christians. Don't they want people to believe in Christ and accept Him as their personal Savior? Mormons have done that, so what is the problem? Have they ruined your hate fest? #2 Whis is it that all of the candidates are not forced to explain their relegions? Is anybody actually talking about Romneys qualificatons to be president? #3 Those who are so bigoted against any group of people will never be satisfied because they are so caught up in the intensity of their own prejudices and hatred. Crawl back under the rocks you came from. #4 CNN sucks to allow this sort of prejudice to pollute their blog. If people were slandering a race, it would not be tolerated. Shame on you CNN. Finally, is there anyone out there who would like to talk about this man's qualifications? SHEESH. Talk Politics or shut up! #1 Mormons are actually Christian. They blieve that it is through Jesus Christ that Salvation comes to all people who seek it. Sounds Christian to me. No matter how ticked off it makes other Christians. I wonder why it bothers them so much that Mormons are also Christians. Don't they want people to believe in Christ and accept Him as their personal Savior? Mormons have done that, so what is the problem? Have they ruined your hate fest?

#2 Whis is it that all of the candidates are not forced to explain their relegions? Is anybody actually talking about Romneys qualificatons to be president?

#3 Those who are so bigoted against any group of people will never be satisfied because they are so caught up in the intensity of their own prejudices and hatred. Crawl back under the rocks you came from.

#4 CNN sucks to allow this sort of prejudice to pollute their blog. If people were slandering a race, it would not be tolerated. Shame on you CNN.

Finally, is there anyone out there who would like to talk about this man's qualifications? SHEESH.

Talk Politics or shut up!

]]> By: GR, Aurora CO http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167717 GR, Aurora CO Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:03:34 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167717 Mormon's, Christians have not excepted your faith as Christianity simply because your church has very little in common with orthodox Christianity. We do not hate. We are not bigots. We love the Lord and are concerned how you've been misled. At the same time we are also obligated to honor His name and correct what needs to be corrected. I've read several comments that say you have the word Christ in your title. I've read comments that say you believe in and love Christ. However the Christian church as Paul and the disciples started, and Christ as taught in the bible are NOT consistent with the mormon faith by any means. Joseph Smith created a faith and used the name of Christ. Sadly, it's not that simple to become a Christian. I urge Christians to read <b>"Reasoning from the Scriptures"</b> by Ron Rhodes to equip you when speaking with Mormons. I urge Christians to read the book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants. Go to mormon.org. Understand their faith. It is obvious very quickly the mormon faith is not a Christian faith. Pray for our mormon friends and use your knowledge of the bible and church leaders. Mormon's,

Christians have not excepted your faith as Christianity simply because your church has very little in common with orthodox Christianity. We do not hate. We are not bigots. We love the Lord and are concerned how you've been misled. At the same time we are also obligated to honor His name and correct what needs to be corrected.

I've read several comments that say you have the word Christ in your title. I've read comments that say you believe in and love Christ. However the Christian church as Paul and the disciples started, and Christ as taught in the bible are NOT consistent with the mormon faith by any means. Joseph Smith created a faith and used the name of Christ. Sadly, it's not that simple to become a Christian.

I urge Christians to read "Reasoning from the Scriptures" by Ron Rhodes to equip you when speaking with Mormons.

I urge Christians to read the book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants. Go to mormon.org. Understand their faith. It is obvious very quickly the mormon faith is not a Christian faith.

Pray for our mormon friends and use your knowledge of the bible and church leaders.

]]> By: Sean, Santa Barbara, CA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167688 Sean, Santa Barbara, CA Tue, 04 Dec 2007 04:19:21 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167688 Why does a Mormon have to say anything about his reiligon, Bush and the Republicans are the ones who listen to Crazy Evangelicals. Why does the gay guy from Colorodo Springs, and Pat Robertson have a open phone line to the President. They are worried when a Catholic or Mormon runs for president because they think in some way the heads of those religons will control the Presidents action. The only religon that cannot be trusted are Evangelicals/Baptists because their leaders are the ones who try and control the leaders and have proven the point. Why does a Mormon have to say anything about his reiligon, Bush and the Republicans are the ones who listen to Crazy Evangelicals.

Why does the gay guy from Colorodo Springs, and Pat Robertson have a open phone line to the President.

They are worried when a Catholic or Mormon runs for president because they think in some way the heads of those religons will control the Presidents action.

The only religon that cannot be trusted are Evangelicals/Baptists because their leaders are the ones who try and control the leaders and have proven the point.

]]> By: Charles in Salt Lake City, UT http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167655 Charles in Salt Lake City, UT Tue, 04 Dec 2007 03:38:33 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167655 Can anyone stand just one more comment on whether or not Mormonism is a "Christian" belief system or not? Something, perhaps, that may help people understand just why so many people are inclined to disagree? All right, then, here goes: Most orthodox, denominational Christians today would consider Mormonism to be "Christian" to the same degree that Mormonism itself considers all other organized denominations to be acceptable before God. All of them. All Catholics, all Protestants, Judaism, Islam, etc. Every single one... In case you didn't realize it, the answer is: null. It is Mormonism itself that FIRST declared "all other churches" to be corrupt and of the Devil at worst, incomplete and deluded at best -- and only the "Restoration" as provided by Joseph Smith was declared capable of extending salvation to mankind. So all you well-meaning but not particularly religious folks who seem to just want everyone to be "nice" to each other, please don't call others narrow-minded or bigoted unless you truly understand where they may be coming from. The response of non-Mormon believers to Mormon teachings is simply an honest reaction to what has been dealt to them. Can anyone stand just one more comment on whether or not Mormonism is a "Christian" belief system or not? Something, perhaps, that may help people understand just why so many people are inclined to disagree?

All right, then, here goes:

Most orthodox, denominational Christians today would consider Mormonism to be "Christian" to the same degree that Mormonism itself considers all other organized denominations to be acceptable before God.

All of them. All Catholics, all Protestants, Judaism, Islam, etc. Every single one...

In case you didn't realize it, the answer is: null. It is Mormonism itself that FIRST declared "all other churches" to be corrupt and of the Devil at worst, incomplete and deluded at best - and only the "Restoration" as provided by Joseph Smith was declared capable of extending salvation to mankind.

So all you well-meaning but not particularly religious folks who seem to just want everyone to be "nice" to each other, please don't call others narrow-minded or bigoted unless you truly understand where they may be coming from. The response of non-Mormon believers to Mormon teachings is simply an honest reaction to what has been dealt to them.

]]> By: Christine, Burke, VA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167557 Christine, Burke, VA Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:50:19 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167557 I've skimmed through most of these comments and noticed -- while everyone feels strung out about Mormonism, no one is the least bit concerned with the location of the speech: the George H. W. Bush Presidential Library. Is this an endorsement from our dynastic duo? Never mind Mormonism -- it's the association with Bush that scares me! I've skimmed through most of these comments and noticed - while everyone feels strung out about Mormonism, no one is the least bit concerned with the location of the speech: the George H. W. Bush Presidential Library. Is this an endorsement from our dynastic duo? Never mind Mormonism - it's the association with Bush that scares me!

]]> By: Randy Holden, Knoxville Iowa http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167479 Randy Holden, Knoxville Iowa Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:43:23 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167479 A cult of Christianity is a group of people, which claiming to be Christian, embraces a particular doctrine system taught by an individual leader, group of leaders, or organization, which (system) denies (either explicitly or implicitly) one or more of the central doctrines of the Christian Faith as taught in the sixty-six books of the Bible. A cult of Christianity is a group of people, which claiming to be Christian, embraces a particular doctrine system taught by an individual leader, group of leaders, or organization, which (system) denies (either explicitly or implicitly) one or more of the central doctrines of the Christian Faith as taught in the sixty-six books of the Bible.

]]> By: NR, Charlotte NC http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167419 NR, Charlotte NC Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:55:13 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167419 I find it interesting that with the wealth of information available today that so many "educated" people take other people's statements of opinion about the LDS church as fact. It is different than most, but bashing it without a full understanding is ignorance. For those of you who state you have a full understanding, but have never talked with a member of the church about their doctrinal beliefs or read any of the literature published by the organization itself, how can you justify that? Your neighbor/friend/minister/guy on the street corner probably has little or no accurate information about the topic. Go to the source. When was the last time you bought a Mutual Fund without consulting an expert on that fund or getting info straight from the fund company, then studying that info... hopefully never. You definately don't call that fund company's competitor to get the facts..... same concept here folks. As for the Nicene Creed being a litmus test for Christianity, lets not forget this was a document that was put together by a group of people who debated what the basic beliefs of the church should be, and even required 2 takes ...325 AD and 381 AD to get it together. Why not just say that CHRISTianity is the belief in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Redeemer, and that believing that he atoned for our sins and living a life centered around his teachings would qualify as Christian.... I think Christ would have wanted it that way. For those who think members of the LDS Church are not Christian, do some research. Most of the doctrine centers around living a Christ-like life, and anyone who tells you different is misinformed. For those with concern about Salt Lake influencing his decision making about the country....if he was to be elected... The presidency of the Church rarely takes a stance on anything political. It does take a stance on Moral issues that have become politicized, but doesn't everyone want a candidate that takes a stance on those things anyway... no matter where the root of that morality comes from anyway? (Yes I know Romney's positions seems to sway) As far as a Mormon as President... why does it matter... I want the person thats best for the job no matter what their religion. I personally don't think he would be the best presidential candidate, but he would be a great VP running mate based on his knowledge and experience. If you can't find a better reason not to hire someone for a job than their religion..... then shame. Just remember if you lost your job because your religion was not in line with the rest of the group, you would sue and win. Same thing if you weren't hired due to religion. You would probably hire a lawyer and tell every news station that would listen how you were discriminated against by bigots...why is it different here? I still won't vote for the guy, but at least its for the right reason... not my ignorance and norrow-mindedness. -NR I find it interesting that with the wealth of information available today that so many "educated" people take other people's statements of opinion about the LDS church as fact. It is different than most, but bashing it without a full understanding is ignorance. For those of you who state you have a full understanding, but have never talked with a member of the church about their doctrinal beliefs or read any of the literature published by the organization itself, how can you justify that? Your neighbor/friend/minister/guy on the street corner probably has little or no accurate information about the topic.
Go to the source. When was the last time you bought a Mutual Fund without consulting an expert on that fund or getting info straight from the fund company, then studying that info... hopefully never. You definately don't call that fund company's competitor to get the facts..... same concept here folks.

As for the Nicene Creed being a litmus test for Christianity, lets not forget this was a document that was put together by a group of people who debated what the basic beliefs of the church should be, and even required 2 takes ...325 AD and 381 AD to get it together.

Why not just say that CHRISTianity is the belief in Jesus Christ as the Savior and Redeemer, and that believing that he atoned for our sins and living a life centered around his teachings would qualify as Christian.... I think Christ would have wanted it that way.

For those who think members of the LDS Church are not Christian, do some research. Most of the doctrine centers around living a Christ-like life, and anyone who tells you different is misinformed.

For those with concern about Salt Lake influencing his decision making about the country....if he was to be elected... The presidency of the Church rarely takes a stance on anything political. It does take a stance on Moral issues that have become politicized, but doesn't everyone want a candidate that takes a stance on those things anyway... no matter where the root of that morality comes from anyway? (Yes I know Romney's positions seems to sway)

As far as a Mormon as President... why does it matter... I want the person thats best for the job no matter what their religion. I personally don't think he would be the best presidential candidate, but he would be a great VP running mate based on his knowledge and experience.

If you can't find a better reason not to hire someone for a job than their religion..... then shame.

Just remember if you lost your job because your religion was not in line with the rest of the group, you would sue and win.
Same thing if you weren't hired due to religion.

You would probably hire a lawyer and tell every news station that would listen how you were discriminated against by bigots...why is it different here?

I still won't vote for the guy, but at least its for the right reason... not my ignorance and norrow-mindedness.

-NR

]]> By: NS, New York http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167391 NS, New York Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:30:03 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167391 I find it very ironic that so much concern is being raised over Mitt Romney's church and its beliefs by people whose own churches teach that unbaptized babies burn in hell for all eternity- and deserve it! Check the logs in your own eyes folks, and stop worrying about the splinter in your neighbors' eyes. I find it very ironic that so much concern is being raised over Mitt Romney's church and its beliefs by people whose own churches teach that unbaptized babies burn in hell for all eternity- and deserve it! Check the logs in your own eyes folks, and stop worrying about the splinter in your neighbors' eyes.

]]> By: Arne, Seattle WA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167371 Arne, Seattle WA Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:13:25 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167371 'Anyone who has "faith" as part of their lives is not fit to serve in office. We need reasonable people, directed by rational thinking not outmoded religious beliefs. Please!' That sums it up nicely. Keep this religion crap out of the white house. 'Anyone who has "faith" as part of their lives is not fit to serve in office. We need reasonable people, directed by rational thinking not outmoded religious beliefs. Please!'

That sums it up nicely. Keep this religion crap out of the white house.

]]> By: Steve, VA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167314 Steve, VA Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:26:38 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167314 If Mormons are so wrong, then would you please tell me why you are so right? It is simple, don't compare, I just want to know your beliefs. People have many misconceptions about the LDS people and seem to be satisfied with those misconceptions. Please learn righteous judgment and and please don't scrutinize that which you have no knowledge of. Like all processes by which knowledge is attain, you must first study, think about it, and apply your understanding. You should not first try to understand before you study and ponder. That would be senseless. I have a degree in chemistry & I received my knowledge concerning chemistry this same way. Likewise, I have read the Book of Mormon and studied the LDS faith. I have studied numerous other faiths and read what they had to offer. This is how knowledge is attained and it has a special individualistic value. I encourage all of you to find out for yourself from correct sources and there would be no need for a thread like this. If Mormons are so wrong, then would you please tell me why you are so right? It is simple, don't compare, I just want to know your beliefs.

People have many misconceptions about the LDS people and seem to be satisfied with those misconceptions. Please learn righteous judgment and and please don't scrutinize that which you have no knowledge of.

Like all processes by which knowledge is attain, you must first study, think about it, and apply your understanding. You should not first try to understand before you study and ponder. That would be senseless. I have a degree in chemistry & I received my knowledge concerning chemistry this same way.

Likewise, I have read the Book of Mormon and studied the LDS faith. I have studied numerous other faiths and read what they had to offer. This is how knowledge is attained and it has a special individualistic value. I encourage all of you to find out for yourself from correct sources and there would be no need for a thread like this.

]]> By: Nef - NY http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167306 Nef - NY Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:24:04 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167306 Christianity as a whole is nothing more than a cult - just with different sects. They claim to follow the principles of Jesus, yet they are intolerant to anyone and everyone that does not believe the same as them. First, they started killing off Pagans (crusades anyone) and then they took over their holidays, modifying them, when they realized there were too many Pagans and they couldn't wipe them out. After that, they made the pagan wise women into some sort of monster, calling her a witch, etc. - another fear tactic - saying she was evil. However, Christians have no problem believing in the supernatural - the thing they claim to shun. If a man rising from the dead isn't supernatural, I don't know what is. Hypocrites. I want nothing to do with a religious whack-job in the Presidential seat. Separation of Church & State! Christianity as a whole is nothing more than a cult – just with different sects. They claim to follow the principles of Jesus, yet they are intolerant to anyone and everyone that does not believe the same as them. First, they started killing off Pagans (crusades anyone) and then they took over their holidays, modifying them, when they realized there were too many Pagans and they couldn't wipe them out. After that, they made the pagan wise women into some sort of monster, calling her a witch, etc. – another fear tactic – saying she was evil. However, Christians have no problem believing in the supernatural – the thing they claim to shun. If a man rising from the dead isn't supernatural, I don't know what is.

Hypocrites.

I want nothing to do with a religious whack-job in the Presidential seat. Separation of Church & State!

]]> By: Rich Cree, Calgary, Canada http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167281 Rich Cree, Calgary, Canada Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:10:51 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167281 This is for Lee. Seeing as you seem to be an expert on what a Christian is, I would like to know what your definition is. All you are doing so far is throwing blanket statements and rhetoric around. What is a Christian? This is for Lee. Seeing as you seem to be an expert on what a Christian is, I would like to know what your definition is. All you are doing so far is throwing blanket statements and rhetoric around. What is a Christian?

]]> By: Rodney Dallas TX http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167250 Rodney Dallas TX Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:54:51 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167250 Don't get your hopes up...I'm sure he's not going to answer the questions you want answered as he doesn't want to offend anyone. There will be alot of side stepping and beating around the bush in his speech. Don't get your hopes up...I'm sure he's not going to answer the questions you want answered as he doesn't want to offend anyone. There will be alot of side stepping and beating around the bush in his speech.

]]> By: Spencer - Houston TX http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167230 Spencer - Houston TX Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:46:16 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167230 Jesus said "I am the way". On the cross he said "it is done". There is nothing left to be done until he returns. You can't say you believe in Jesus and then contradict yourself by stating heaven must be earned through works. God is Love, he provided a way to heaven by grace through Christ - now it is up to you to enter. Don't be fooled by religion's that "tag" on to what Christ said was complete. Any God worth your soul should not send mixed messages or reinvent your faith. Posted By Jim St Louis MO : December 3, 2007 1:29 pm Hey Jim, you scholar you, look up James 2:20. If you believe in the Bible, believe in the whole Bible, not just the parts that are convenient to your life. You really belive you don't have to do anything? How convenient. Jesus said "I am the way". On the cross he said "it is done". There is nothing left to be done until he returns. You can't say you believe in Jesus and then contradict yourself by stating heaven must be earned through works. God is Love, he provided a way to heaven by grace through Christ – now it is up to you to enter. Don't be fooled by religion's that "tag" on to what Christ said was complete. Any God worth your soul should not send mixed messages or reinvent your faith.

Posted By Jim St Louis MO : December 3, 2007 1:29 pm

Hey Jim, you scholar you, look up James 2:20. If you believe in the Bible, believe in the whole Bible, not just the parts that are convenient to your life. You really belive you don't have to do anything? How convenient.

]]> By: manaen, SoCal http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167224 manaen, SoCal Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:41:28 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167224 RE: <b>Are Mormons Christian?<b> "The Book of Mormon," Mosiah 5: 7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made <b>ye shall be called the children of Christ</b>, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters. 8 And under this head ye are made free, and <b>there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh</b>; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of <b>Christ</b>, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives. 9 And it shall come to pass that whosoever doeth this shall be found at the right hand of God, for he shall know the name by which he is called; for <b>he shall be called by the name of Christ</b>. 10 And now it shall come to pass, that <b>whosoever shall not take upon him the name of Christ must be called by some other name</b>; therefore, he findeth himself on the left hand of God. RE: Are Mormons Christian?

"The Book of Mormon," Mosiah 5:

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
8 And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.
9 And it shall come to pass that whosoever doeth this shall be found at the right hand of God, for he shall know the name by which he is called; for he shall be called by the name of Christ.
10 And now it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall not take upon him the name of Christ must be called by some other name; therefore, he findeth himself on the left hand of God.

]]> By: Lee, Mays Landing, New Jersey http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167211 Lee, Mays Landing, New Jersey Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:34:14 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167211 "Oh evangelicals may believe Mitt Romney has faith, but just in the wrong things. Mormons are as Christian as Muslims are, maybe less. They are not Christian. Then again I don't think Pat Robertson, George Bush and many self-identified American Christians are actually Christians either. But that's a whole 'nother story. There is a certain rot in a segment of American religious/political thought." Lee, what a perfectly un-Christian thing of you to say. You should be ashamed of yourself. Posted By Shelley, Chapel Hill, NC : December 2, 2007 9:11 pm No, I stand by every word in my statement. Mormons are not Christian, but they are American, and borrowed from the Christian religion, which leads some American Christians to be confused. Another source of confusion is the American culture itself. Being part of that does not make you "Christian" in and of itself, particularly if it is just Republican politics (Pat Robertson) and nationalistic xenophobia masquerading as christianity. Christianity is bigger than America, sorry. "Oh evangelicals may believe Mitt Romney has faith, but just in the wrong things. Mormons are as Christian as Muslims are, maybe less. They are not Christian.
Then again I don't think Pat Robertson, George Bush and many self-identified American Christians are actually Christians either. But that's a whole 'nother story.
There is a certain rot in a segment of American religious/political thought."

Lee, what a perfectly un-Christian thing of you to say. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted By Shelley, Chapel Hill, NC : December 2, 2007 9:11 pm

No, I stand by every word in my statement. Mormons are not Christian, but they are American, and borrowed from the Christian religion, which leads some American Christians to be confused.
Another source of confusion is the American culture itself. Being part of that does not make you "Christian" in and of itself, particularly if it is just Republican politics (Pat Robertson) and nationalistic xenophobia masquerading as christianity. Christianity is bigger than America, sorry.

]]> By: Terry, Lakeland, FL http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167207 Terry, Lakeland, FL Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:31:01 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167207
the Mormon cult is quite deceptive…

Posted By Your conscience : December 3, 2007 3:59 pm

Wow drive by people hater who doesn't even have the guts to post their name.

]]> By: Terry, Lakeland, FL http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167192 Terry, Lakeland, FL Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:23:22 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167192 <b.Mormonism is a dangerous cult that subjugates women and hates gay people. It would be extremely detrimental to have a Mormon as a President. Posted By Maybelle Wilson, Santa Cruz, California : December 2, 2007 11:42 pm </b> Don't all Christian faiths hate gay people, I've heard enough Christian people talk about how being gay is an illness that needs to be cured..so how about you drop that crap..also there have been black people in the church from day one, so you all can drop that lie as well. <b.Mormonism is a dangerous cult that subjugates women and hates gay people. It would be extremely detrimental to have a Mormon as a President.

Posted By Maybelle Wilson, Santa Cruz, California : December 2, 2007 11:42 pm

Don't all Christian faiths hate gay people, I've heard enough Christian people talk about how being gay is an illness that needs to be cured..so how about you drop that crap..also there have been black people in the church from day one, so you all can drop that lie as well.

]]> By: Jim St. Louis MO http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167159 Jim St. Louis MO Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:10:14 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167159 GOD has given everyone the freewill to decide what their going to follow. The question in America is why ethics and values are declining. You can see at every turn that society has totally given up trying to police itself and is saying do anything you want. Just because you say your Godly doesn't make you Godly, and just because you say you don't believe in GOD doesn't mean He doesn't exist. What is certain is if we don't concentrate on the true issues (see Ross Perot), we will continue to sink farther down to the point of no return, then you will need a faith that will do more than tell you what to do but will supply true deliverence. GOD has given everyone the freewill to decide what their going to follow. The question in America is why ethics and values are declining. You can see at every turn that society has totally given up trying to police itself and is saying do anything you want. Just because you say your Godly doesn't make you Godly, and just because you say you don't believe in GOD doesn't mean He doesn't exist. What is certain is if we don't concentrate on the true issues (see Ross Perot), we will continue to sink farther down to the point of no return, then you will need a faith that will do more than tell you what to do but will supply true deliverence.

]]> By: Jim Tucson, AZ http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167150 Jim Tucson, AZ Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:05:09 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167150 I believe in the original god, Zeus, which makes me a Heraclean. I don't know if Mormons are Christans but they are definitely not Heracleans. Unlike Christans, Muslims, Buddhist etc. Heracleans don't put up the charade of being tolerant of other religions. Someday Zeus will come down form Mt. Olympus and strike down all the non-believers. I believe in the original god, Zeus, which makes me a Heraclean. I don't know if Mormons are Christans but they are definitely not Heracleans. Unlike Christans, Muslims, Buddhist etc. Heracleans don't put up the charade of being tolerant of other religions. Someday Zeus will come down form Mt. Olympus and strike down all the non-believers.

]]> By: Your conscience http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167137 Your conscience Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:59:06 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167137 the Mormon cult is quite deceptive... the Mormon cult is quite deceptive...

]]> By: Tom Dedham, Mass http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167136 Tom Dedham, Mass Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:57:44 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167136 Is anyone still reading this thing??? Why isn't anyone discussing how practicing Mormon HARRY REID, Senate Majority Leader, discerns church and state? Posted By JT, Ada OK : December 3, 2007 2:13 pm Great point JT, most people have no idea that Reid is a Mormon and most people wouldn't give a bleep even though he is one of the most powerful people in the country (by his position anyway). Romney has to do this as there are bigots from BOTH sides who are making this an issue. If he came out and said "I base all my thoughts on my religous beliefs and nothing else" simply instead of what he thinks is right and wrong, I would hammer him as well. The MSM would never speak ill of a Muslim or a Jew's faith running for office, the people would be allowed to decide and that is the way it should be. You would think that since John Kennedy was forced to do this we would have moved forward, not the case, and it is proven by many of the ignorant postings here and elsewhere. Is anyone still reading this thing???

Why isn't anyone discussing how practicing Mormon HARRY REID, Senate Majority Leader, discerns church and state?

Posted By JT, Ada OK : December 3, 2007 2:13 pm

Great point JT, most people have no idea that Reid is a Mormon and most people wouldn't give a bleep even though he is one of the most powerful people in the country (by his position anyway).

Romney has to do this as there are bigots from BOTH sides who are making this an issue.

If he came out and said "I base all my thoughts on my religous beliefs and nothing else" simply instead of what he thinks is right and wrong, I would hammer him as well.

The MSM would never speak ill of a Muslim or a Jew's faith running for office, the people would be allowed to decide and that is the way it should be.

You would think that since John Kennedy was forced to do this we would have moved forward, not the case, and it is proven by many of the ignorant postings here and elsewhere.

]]> By: Rich Cree http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167085 Rich Cree Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:29:15 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167085 I live in Canada and am a Canadian citizen and therefore have no real concern for your elections. I am quite sure that whoever you vote in can't possibly be worse than what currently resides in the oval office. What does concern me is a number of individual's comments regarding my and Mitt Romney's religion. Would it surprise those of you with the vitriolic commnets that if I were American I would not necessarily vote for Romney even if he is of my faith? Would it surprise you even more if I said I was impressed with Huckabee in the You Tube debates and would not rule out voting for him even though he is a Baptist minister and the Baptists are generally some of the worst anti-mormon crusaders out there? For those of you that are curious, our Prophet goes out of his way every time there is an election to tell the members of the Church to vote for whoever they want and that the Church does not endorse any one Candidate and they never will. In addition, if you are going to post asinine commnets about my religion at least make sure they are right. Most of the ones I have seen posted here today are way off base and some completely fabricated. If any of you posting are Christians perhaps you should remember one of the commandments that States "thou shalt not lie" because that is what books like the God-Makers do in abundance. As for those that say we are not Christian when the name of the Church starts with the Church of Jesus Christ and that everything we do revolves around Christ, either you need glasses, a new brain, or a sanity test because you are clearly a moron. I live in Canada and am a Canadian citizen and therefore have no real concern for your elections. I am quite sure that whoever you vote in can't possibly be worse than what currently resides in the oval office.

What does concern me is a number of individual's comments regarding my and Mitt Romney's religion. Would it surprise those of you with the vitriolic commnets that if I were American I would not necessarily vote for Romney even if he is of my faith? Would it surprise you even more if I said I was impressed with Huckabee in the You Tube debates and would not rule out voting for him even though he is a Baptist minister and the Baptists are generally some of the worst anti-mormon crusaders out there?

For those of you that are curious, our Prophet goes out of his way every time there is an election to tell the members of the Church to vote for whoever they want and that the Church does not endorse any one Candidate and they never will.

In addition, if you are going to post asinine commnets about my religion at least make sure they are right. Most of the ones I have seen posted here today are way off base and some completely fabricated. If any of you posting are Christians perhaps you should remember one of the commandments that States "thou shalt not lie" because that is what books like the God-Makers do in abundance.

As for those that say we are not Christian when the name of the Church starts with the Church of Jesus Christ and that everything we do revolves around Christ, either you need glasses, a new brain, or a sanity test because you are clearly a moron.

]]> By: John Henry N.H. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167052 John Henry N.H. Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:11:26 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167052 What a tough position to be in for Mitt. He undoubtly will lose the evangelical support which frankly if he does will not hurt him as I think that the bulk of the world looks at Born Again Evangelicals as the most hypocritacal people in the world. But he will need to start courting mainstream America and then they will call him a flip flopper again. It is pretty tought to be a Mormon who have a clergy made up of people who are not paid by the church and battle against a paid ministers whose living is paid by their followers they have a lot at stake if their members convert to Mormons so of course they will distort the truth to scare people away. The Mormon church is a huge threat to these people thus they go on and on about the fraud of Mormonism yet what do any of these ministers or their churches do for the community or the world? 1. Jim Bakker and about 20 others rolls royce driving ministers. 2. Kill abortion Doctors 3. Protest at funerals of soldiers stating it is because of the sin in the country that we are at war. lets therefore punish the soldiers family at their time of grieving. Evangelicals are the Jihadists of the Christian Faith. If Mormonism is a fraud how do you explain a 14 year old boy establishing an organization that now stands at 13 million 200 years later. it is the fastest growing christian religion in the world and has been for the last 20 years. If Joesph Smith was a fraud the Church would have ended when he was killed 170 years ago. Mitt your in a tough spot best of wishes in your speech. Start being more of yourself and care less what some people will say to you. You will never have agreement from everyone. What a tough position to be in for Mitt. He undoubtly will lose the evangelical support which frankly if he does will not hurt him as I think that the bulk of the world looks at Born Again Evangelicals as the most hypocritacal people in the world. But he will need to start courting mainstream America and then they will call him a flip flopper again.
It is pretty tought to be a Mormon who have a clergy made up of people who are not paid by the church and battle against a paid ministers whose living is paid by their followers they have a lot at stake if their members convert to Mormons so of course they will distort the truth to scare people away. The Mormon church is a huge threat to these people thus they go on and on about the fraud of Mormonism yet what do any of these ministers or their churches do for the community or the world?
1. Jim Bakker and about 20 others rolls royce driving ministers.
2. Kill abortion Doctors
3. Protest at funerals of soldiers stating it is because of the sin in the country that we are at war. lets therefore punish the soldiers family at their time of grieving.
Evangelicals are the Jihadists of the Christian Faith.
If Mormonism is a fraud how do you explain a 14 year old boy establishing an organization that now stands at 13 million 200 years later. it is the fastest growing christian religion in the world and has been for the last 20 years. If Joesph Smith was a fraud the Church would have ended when he was killed 170 years ago.
Mitt your in a tough spot best of wishes in your speech. Start being more of yourself and care less what some people will say to you. You will never have agreement from everyone.

]]> By: Darrell Rowles, Byers, Colorado http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167025 Darrell Rowles, Byers, Colorado Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:52:52 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167025 In 2008 some ideal occupation changes for Mitt Romney would be to co-star with aw come on Fred Thompson in perhaps a new television series called CSI Salt Lake City. Rudy G. should get a promotional job at the ole ball game with the New York Yankees. Also last but not least is possibly the greatest realistic Republican challenge to any 2008 potential Democratic nomininees for the leadership of the United States of America. Namely a Ron Paul, Mike Huckabee ticket. In 2008 some ideal occupation changes for Mitt Romney would be to co-star with aw come on Fred Thompson in perhaps a new television series called CSI Salt Lake City. Rudy G. should get a promotional job at the ole ball game with the New York Yankees. Also last but not least is possibly the greatest realistic Republican challenge to any 2008 potential Democratic nomininees for the leadership of the United States of America. Namely a Ron Paul, Mike Huckabee ticket.

]]> By: Jeff, Fort Collins CO http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167016 Jeff, Fort Collins CO Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:49:40 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167016 Steve Pinkston, The very last verse int he bible is "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." I fail to see that this invalidates any religion. I assume you are referring to the fourth to last, which mentions that "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." Where are the plagues? Why was John himself not visited by the plagues, as he wrote the gospel of john after having written revelation? Why is it that they can't add to a book that was compiled and canonized hundreds of years after the books were written? is the apocrypha also heretical? where are the plagues that should be visited upon the catholic church for those ones? If you would like to make arguments against the Mormon religion, please do so using points that are a little harder to refute than this. Romney's religion aside, he is the more qualified for an executive position than the others as far as I can tell. If you can show me that another is more qualified, and more in line with my conservative values, I will be happy to re-evaluate my position. Steve Pinkston,

The very last verse int he bible is "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." I fail to see that this invalidates any religion. I assume you are referring to the fourth to last, which mentions that "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."

Where are the plagues? Why was John himself not visited by the plagues, as he wrote the gospel of john after having written revelation?

Why is it that they can't add to a book that was compiled and canonized hundreds of years after the books were written? is the apocrypha also heretical? where are the plagues that should be visited upon the catholic church for those ones?

If you would like to make arguments against the Mormon religion, please do so using points that are a little harder to refute than this.

Romney's religion aside, he is the more qualified for an executive position than the others as far as I can tell. If you can show me that another is more qualified, and more in line with my conservative values, I will be happy to re-evaluate my position.

]]> By: Steve Pinkston, Grayson, GA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167015 Steve Pinkston, Grayson, GA Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:48:52 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-167015 To - Ben from Norcross - You absolutely correct in your timeline. My comment earlier was not to be a historical statement but a Theological one. IF you believe the Bible as cannnized in the current 66 books is God's word (not the ghist of his thoughts or mans scribling of history), then you must believe that Revelations and its concluding finality of God's breathed word by being the last book of the Bible. It would be NO mistake that it was intended to be the last thing GOd wanted humankind to know. As Jim in St. Louis concurred, Jesus said it is finished on the cross. His last breaths in human form were not acclamation of his life was finished but that GOD the FATHER's work of salvation, redemtion and atonement were complete with HIS sacrifice. What need is there for another depensation or revelation from a MAN (Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, Jim Jones, Sun Youn Moon...) if God's work is complete? What more does one need to gain salvation? Is Christ all I need or not? Is Christ's death all that was needed for atonement for mankinds sin or not? If not: - then Christ's sacrifice was in vain, - he was not the son of God - the Bible is NOT the word of God - the Billions of followers that have had faith in HIM are wrong. Christianity is faith based solely on the life of Christ, not the Pope or Smith, Russell or Moon or any other man. I am NOT a bigot, hate monger nor a hater of Mormans. I have stated before I have many friends who are Mormans, whcih I hold dear and close. Mitt Romney seems like a nice guy, I admire his nice morals and leadership skills running the state of NH and the Olympics. But all those qualifications do not save his soul and neither does a belief in a Man's 'revelation from God'. Folks, Christ is about love. I love my morman friends, muslim friends, all my friends. It is for them I want them to see the God of love and know HIS one true act of grace and mercy. But I have a question. IF Christ was enough why the need for Smith's book? Why? There is no gray here or waffling or flip-floppin. Either Christ's sacrifice was enough or it wasn't. And if it wasn't, then EVERYTHING in the BIBLE is false and worthless. So in that regard I completely understand all the atheist and christian haters here. They beleive the Bible was not God's word and that it is false. To – Ben from Norcross – You absolutely correct in your timeline. My comment earlier was not to be a historical statement but a Theological one.

IF you believe the Bible as cannnized in the current 66 books is God's word (not the ghist of his thoughts or mans scribling of history), then you must believe that Revelations and its concluding finality of God's breathed word by being the last book of the Bible. It would be NO mistake that it was intended to be the last thing GOd wanted humankind to know.

As Jim in St. Louis concurred, Jesus said it is finished on the cross. His last breaths in human form were not acclamation of his life was finished but that GOD the FATHER's work of salvation, redemtion and atonement were complete with HIS sacrifice.

What need is there for another depensation or revelation from a MAN (Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, Jim Jones, Sun Youn Moon...) if God's work is complete?

What more does one need to gain salvation?

Is Christ all I need or not?

Is Christ's death all that was needed for atonement for mankinds sin or not?

If not:
– then Christ's sacrifice was in vain,
– he was not the son of God
– the Bible is NOT the word of God
– the Billions of followers that have had faith in HIM are wrong.

Christianity is faith based solely on the life of Christ, not the Pope or Smith, Russell or Moon or any other man.

I am NOT a bigot, hate monger nor a hater of Mormans. I have stated before I have many friends who are Mormans, whcih I hold dear and close.

Mitt Romney seems like a nice guy, I admire his nice morals and leadership skills running the state of NH and the Olympics. But all those qualifications do not save his soul and neither does a belief in a Man's 'revelation from God'.

Folks, Christ is about love. I love my morman friends, muslim friends, all my friends. It is for them I want them to see the God of love and know HIS one true act of grace and mercy.

But I have a question.
IF Christ was enough why the need for Smith's book? Why? There is no gray here or waffling or flip-floppin. Either Christ's sacrifice was enough or it wasn't. And if it wasn't, then EVERYTHING in the BIBLE is false and worthless.

So in that regard I completely understand all the atheist and christian haters here. They beleive the Bible was not God's word and that it is false.

]]> By: kate lee, scottsbluf, NE http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166987 kate lee, scottsbluf, NE Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:29:08 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166987 Mr. Romney, from what the article says, will not discuss his faith but, rather, religious tolerance and freedom in America. I'm sure he is also going to say that his faith informs his family values, something which he's said before. Of course, one does not need to be a Christian to live a family-centered, faith-centered life with high moral values. If that were the only sign of true Christianity, my agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Islamic, and Hindu friends would be termed "Christian." Boy, would they be surprised! I think that Evangelicals are upset when they learn some of the LDS beliefs--becoming God, getting one's own planet, dominance over wife and children, having a book equal to the Bible, etc. Most importantly, the belief that Jesus was a human prophet--one in a long, continuing line--is problematic. Why? Most Christians believe that scripture is closed and that not one jot or tittle (let alone an entire other book)should be added to the faith. They also believe that Jesus Christ is a part of the Trinity and divine, not human. Since, with regard to the Christ and to other areas of faith, Mormonism and Islam are very much alike in their history and beliefs, Christians become uneasy whether they wish to feel that way or not. Fear? Bigotry? Logical conclusions? I'm sure the reaction to Mr. Romney is a bit of all of these. Mr. Romney, from what the article says, will not discuss his faith but, rather, religious tolerance and freedom in America. I'm sure he is also going to say that his faith informs his family values, something which he's said before.

Of course, one does not need to be a Christian to live a family-centered, faith-centered life with high moral values. If that were the only sign of true Christianity, my agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, Islamic, and Hindu friends would be termed "Christian." Boy, would they be surprised!

I think that Evangelicals are upset when they learn some of the LDS beliefs–becoming God, getting one's own planet, dominance over wife and children, having a book equal to the Bible, etc. Most importantly, the belief that Jesus was a human prophet–one in a long, continuing line–is problematic. Why? Most Christians believe that scripture is closed and that not one jot or tittle (let alone an entire other book)should be added to the faith. They also believe that Jesus Christ is a part of the Trinity and divine, not human. Since, with regard to the Christ and to other areas of faith, Mormonism and Islam are very much alike in their history and beliefs, Christians become uneasy whether they wish to feel that way or not. Fear? Bigotry? Logical conclusions? I'm sure the reaction to Mr. Romney is a bit of all of these.

]]> By: Val Davydov, Agawam, MA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166978 Val Davydov, Agawam, MA Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:23:56 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166978 To Aburgess, Phoenix, AZ: Let me ask you some questions in response to yours. As you know, Orrin Hatch (prominent Republican serving our country since 1977) and Harry Reid (prominent Democrat serving our country since 1982) are both are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They too took the oath of the office. Question: Have these men's service to their respective constituency in any way been compromised because of their faith? And have there been any decisions made by Salt Lake City, Utah, since these men have served in US Congress? To Val Molina, Del Rio, Texas: Evangelicals, like yourself, for some reason think that God favors you more than the rest of us. Thinking this way you are deceived that you are above all other denominations. Please read James 4:6 - "Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." To Aburgess, Phoenix, AZ:

Let me ask you some questions in response to yours.

As you know, Orrin Hatch (prominent Republican serving our country since 1977) and Harry Reid (prominent Democrat serving our country since 1982) are both are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They too took the oath of the office.

Question: Have these men's service to their respective constituency in any way been compromised because of their faith? And have there been any decisions made by Salt Lake City, Utah, since these men have served in US Congress?

To Val Molina, Del Rio, Texas:

Evangelicals, like yourself, for some reason think that God favors you more than the rest of us. Thinking this way you are deceived that you are above all other denominations. Please read James 4:6 – "Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."

]]> By: JT, Ada OK http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166962 JT, Ada OK Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:13:16 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166962 Is anyone still reading this thing??? Why isn't anyone discussing how practicing Mormon HARRY REID, Senate Majority Leader, discerns church and state? Is anyone still reading this thing???

Why isn't anyone discussing how practicing Mormon HARRY REID, Senate Majority Leader, discerns church and state?

]]> By: Z, St. Louis,MO. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166957 Z, St. Louis,MO. Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:10:47 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166957 This planet doesn't need another leader that believes in magical ghosts in the sky,or in the ground or fairies or magic underwear or any of this other delusional stuff. All you need to do is look around the planet and see the arrogant leaders that think their magical being is better than your than yours and is willing to kill or subjugate you if you don't belive it.We don't need any more of this religious nonsense.It's time to grow up planet earth and put the myth's to bed. This planet doesn't need another
leader that believes in magical ghosts
in the sky,or in the ground or fairies
or magic underwear or any of this
other delusional stuff.

All you need to do is look around the
planet and see the arrogant leaders
that think their magical being is
better than your than yours and is
willing to kill or subjugate you if
you don't belive it.We don't need any
more of this religious nonsense.It's
time to grow up planet earth and put
the myth's to bed.

]]> By: Greg, Houston, TX http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166934 Greg, Houston, TX Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:00:08 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166934 Regardless of what Romney says about his religion, most people here will not change their mind about him. Yes Mormons are Christians =, so what. Yes they allowed Blacks to join their faith but they did not allow them to become a member of the Priesthood until recently (last 20 years or so). So what, most white Christian churches in the south did not allow black members until the last 30 years or so. My biggest problem is he (nor any of his five sons) served in the military. I guess he like most rich folks, like the poor and middle class to do their fighting for them. Just another Chicken Hawk. Regardless of what Romney says about his religion, most people here will not change their mind about him. Yes Mormons are Christians =, so what. Yes they allowed Blacks to join their faith but they did not allow them to become a member of the Priesthood until recently (last 20 years or so). So what, most white Christian churches in the south did not allow black members until the last 30 years or so. My biggest problem is he (nor any of his five sons) served in the military. I guess he like most rich folks, like the poor and middle class to do their fighting for them. Just another Chicken Hawk.

]]> By: Steve Blaine Washington http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166905 Steve Blaine Washington Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:44:11 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166905 I would like to see anyone that is a member of the Christians Right to define the meaning of baptism of fire which was one or many doctrines given by Jesus Christ to early Christians in the Bible and advise if they in any way believe that they are Christians in the sense that early Christians were Christians. By what authority did they baptize by water and baptize by fire. There was much more to the Church doctrine praticed by the early Christians than just believing in Jesus christ as our savior. Come on I am only asking you to define one doctrine. I would like to see anyone that is a member of the Christians Right to define the meaning of baptism of fire which was one or many doctrines given by Jesus Christ to early Christians in the Bible and advise if they in any way believe that they are Christians in the sense that early Christians were Christians. By what
authority did they baptize by water and baptize by fire.
There was much more to the Church doctrine praticed by the early Christians than just believing in Jesus christ as our savior.
Come on I am only asking you to define
one doctrine.

]]> By: manaen http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166904 manaen Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:44:07 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166904 RE: <b>Are Mormons Christian? . ** Christ's Atonement **</b> . "The Book of Mormon," Alma 34: . <i>8 And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that </i><b>Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world</b><i>; for the Lord God hath spoken it. . 9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, </i><b>all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement</b><i> which it is expedient should be made. . 10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for </i><b>it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice</b><i>. . 11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay. . 12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore </i><b>there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world</b><i>. . 13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away. . 14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and </i><b>that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal</b><i>. . 15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance. . 16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of eredemption.</i> RE: Are Mormons Christian?
.
** Christ's Atonement **
.
"The Book of Mormon," Alma 34:
.
8 And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
.
9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.
.
11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay.
.
12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.
.
13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.
.
15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
.
16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of eredemption.

]]> By: Randy Link, Helena, MT http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166878 Randy Link, Helena, MT Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:35:33 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166878 Mitt, keep that Mormon mantra going by repeating: I want my own planet.. I want my own planet.. I want my own planet.. Mitt, keep that Mormon mantra going by repeating:

I want my own planet..
I want my own planet..
I want my own planet..

]]> By: Bryan, Sacramento, CA http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/03/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166870 Bryan, Sacramento, CA Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:32:34 +0000 http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/02/romney-to-give-mormon-speech/#comment-166870 Now may or may not be the right time for a Mormon to successfully run for President. But I think, as a nation, one way or the other we'll get there. The anti-Mormon hatred and rhetoric, with its attendant absurdities will continue to ebb, like racism's high age of the last century. Consider that during the early and middle part of the 20th century being a member of the KKK was acceptable by the mainstream, and even desirable and politically astute. But over the course of decades that opinion ebbed, until it was merely tolerated, and then stigmatized and eventually it became a virtual disqualifier for any serious politician. The same is occuring now. Where once Mormons were driven about, robbed, and murdered, eventually they found a place to settle a measure of peace. Though the anti-mormon rhetoric, lies, and absurdities would rage on for more than a century. But there too--with more and more people finding themselves friends of Mormons, or seeing through the nonsensical claims of certain insecure evangelicals and "former Mormons," or otherwise adopting progressive attitudes--it has become less and less acceptable to bash on the Mormon faith. Even the hater-monger types have started to go from (even in this string of comments) "Everyone knows Mormons aren't Christians" to "I can't believe we're calling Mormon's Christians (or that we're even being nice to them)." This trend will continue until those individuals who currently hold such passionate enmity (and who spread the lies to perpetuate their beliefs) adopt a more beneficent attitude, or succumb to the mainstream pressure to at the very least keep their backward views to themselves, or simply pass on with their generation and leave the progress to their children. Without claiming that America's problems with racism and bigotry have been solved thereby, it can still be claimed that this process has certainly gotten us from the acceptability of hatred to its total stigmatization. Bearing in mind, that there is no forum better for hate-mongers than the internet, where they feel free to spew out their hate and their threats, safe from the consequences they would face in the real world for being so backward, intolerant and...dare I say it: ignorant. Learning about Mormons (and deciding on one's vote for the US Presidency...) from those with axes to grind is already intellecutally compromising. But to do so from websites purporting to tell you the "truth about the Mormons" or "Old Joe Smith" with shoddily patched together "facts" makes one rather worse than true ignorance: it misinforms. Now may or may not be the right time for a Mormon to successfully run for President. But I think, as a nation, one way or the other we'll get there.

The anti-Mormon hatred and rhetoric, with its attendant absurdities will continue to ebb, like racism's high age of the last century. Consider that during the early and middle part of the 20th century being a member of the KKK was acceptable by the mainstream, and even desirable and politically astute. But over the course of decades that opinion ebbed, until it was merely tolerated, and then stigmatized and eventually it became a virtual disqualifier for any serious politician.

The same is occuring now. Where once Mormons were driven about, robbed, and murdered, eventually they found a place to settle a measure of peace. Though the anti-mormon rhetoric, lies, and absurdities would rage on for more than a century. But there too–with more and more people finding themselves friends of Mormons, or seeing through the nonsensical claims of certain insecure evangelicals and "former Mormons," or otherwise adopting progressive attitudes–it has become less and less acceptable to bash on the Mormon faith. Even the hater-monger types have started to go from (even in this string of comments) "Everyone knows Mormons aren't Christians" to "I can't believe we're calling Mormon's Christians (or that we're even being nice to them)." This trend will continue until those individuals who currently hold such passionate enmity (and who spread the lies to perpetuate their beliefs) adopt a more beneficent attitude, or succumb to the mainstream pressure to at the very least keep their backward views to themselves, or simply pass on with their generation and leave the progress to their children. Without claiming that America's problems with racism and bigotry have been solved thereby, it can still be claimed that this process has certainly gotten us from the acceptability of hatred to its total stigmatization. Bearing in mind, that there is no forum better for hate-mongers than the internet, where they feel free to spew out their hate and their threats, safe from the consequences they would face in the real world for being so backward, intolerant and...dare I say it: ignorant.

Learning about Mormons (and deciding on one's vote for the US Presidency...) from those with axes to grind is already intellecutally compromising. But to do so from websites purporting to tell you the "truth about the Mormons" or "Old Joe Smith" with shoddily patched together "facts" makes one rather worse than true ignorance: it misinforms.

]]>