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Waterboarding is WAY fun, especially when you're at the beach.

... that's what this is about, right?

Wheres my previous post CNN monior ? You let chaz from canada have his right to free speech but you wont allow me to defend mine ? what a Bs way to do things.

I'm a firm supporter of The GOP, but will this be used "IRREGULARLY", contrary to what the article quotes as "not be used regularly".

Read the facts, listen to the facts, this is what has to be done.

B. Brown

Guiliani is showing his true colors as a liar and a cover up artist. As always he wants the fox to police the chicken house. How can anyone believe anything he says? I think he is out of step with the American people and is probably done as a presidential candidate.

I'll say it again-

If your child was in a school, and there was a bomb in the school. If you captured the person who knew the code to turn the bomb off. Otherwise, the bomb would go off and kill many children, including your child, I would waterboard the hell out of the guy.

The last time this issue came up, people crucified me, telling me "waterboarding doesn't work".

GUESS WHAT! WE KNOW IT WORKS!!! WE HAVE PROOF NOW!!!!!

Hey, Let's waterboard the G man and botch it. In his eulogy we can say he died doing what he loved...

Rudy has gone to far when he starts water boarding Surrealist.., but just barely.

You idiots on the high horse thinking we should offer cupcakes for information from terrorists live in La La Land. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all be so innocent? Sorry to disappoint you fools, but we have been engaged in shady activities from day one. Thank God the likes of you aren't responsible for our safety.

"THREE people in total have been waterboarded, not the hundreds that the MSM makes it seem. FACT

Two of those three gave up KSM, who if you sheep forget was the MASTERMIND behind 9-11 that killed our fellow INNOCENT CITIZENS. FACT

Two of the three were not being cooperative UNTIL waterboarding was used and they gave up the GOOD information RIGHT AWAY. FACT

Also as part of the information given were details that STOPPED MULTIPLE ATTACKS that were in the planning stages that would have been all around the world and and the US. FACT"

Not one of those is a FACT. They are claims made by a administration known to have lied. They are claims made by an administration which destroyed tapes that might support one or more of their claims.

"I know of NOBODY that does not agree with me and that includes ALL my Democratic leaning friends. FACT"

Also a demonstrable lie. You are responding to people who don't agree with you. If you are going to resort to lies to make a case, then why should we believe anything you say?

Waterboarding has been torture, defined by the courts and the military, for nearly one hundred years. What changed?

"Having a 9/10/01 mentality is going to get us killed. FACT"

Having Bush's 9/10/01 mentality is going to get us killed. Look what it's already done. The Clinton administration knew there was a threat and worked to prevent attacks. Bush pretended there was no threat.

Can we just send Rudy straight to the Hague for his war crimes trial now, and avoid the rush later?

Yet again just another reason to vote Ron Paul. If we torture that makes us no better then Al CIA Duh. Ron Paul 08'

There is right and there is wrong. Torture is ALWAYS wrong. Cant expect a Republican or his Christian followers to understand that though. Values??

As always the loons on the left go and let their rage blind them and go on say that this means he would water board just because. But maybe that has something to do with the fact that their hate for Bush and the Republican party is comparable to the Muslims hate of Western Civilization. They don't take time think for themselves but follow the leadership of men who claim to be men of god and have the goal of taking Islam by the sword to the rest of the world. Of course most of you bumbling idiots probably don't know a lick about Osama Bin Laden chosen sect of Islam.

Do I believe in water boarding? Yes, if someone is caught planting a roadside bomb or attacking troops in Afghanistan or Iraq and this person will not cooperate with civil questioning. If a foreign national is trying to kill American civilians. Unlike those who choose to say that waterboarding is never acceptable there are men and women who put their life on the line every day not knowing if they will be going home at the end of their tour. They have families who sit up at night and wonder if they will see their father or mother again. If it takes waterboarding one person who got caught in the act of attempting to end the lives of one of our service members or citizens you better believe that I support them being waterboarded to save the lives of men and women dying to keep Iraq and Afghanistan free.

As for the first poster, if you seriously think Japanese soliders were hanged just for waterboarding you are out of your mind. They were hanged for ever other vile, painful, and inhumane form of torture used by the Chinese. Torture that left men mained and handicapped.

Does someone have facts to back up the contention that waterboarding is a good way to get accurate information from an enemy?

jhenderson from Kingsville, Tx–that's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! You honestly believe only Democrats go to war? And to think I got my college degree in your town...

People in America need to wake up from Happyland. Three terrorists were waterboarded, two of which gave up lifesaving information, and all I hear about is how it doesn't work. How do you liberals think we should deal with terrorists? Give 'em a hug? Hold their hands and sing "We are the world"? These terrorists are beyond reason at a certain point... like a predatory animal, they go for the jugular when they sense weakness.

Waterboarding has "Never" been accetable practise in this nation. The military has defined waterboarding as torture and it is banned, only this Repulblican administration and those that refuse to call it like it is seem to have a problem uttering this "T" word, torture.

Waterboarding is toture and torture is never justified, nor does torture ever provide usable, valid, trustworthy information. A person under going torture will eventually tell the interigators exactly what they "want" to hear to get them to stop.

I just love the mindset of left wingers. They are so convinced their liberities are being taken by the current Administration, yet they have blind eye to a liberal agenda operating under the guise of political correctness. Lefties have been eroding our freedoms for years. They have no problem dictating what we speak, eat, drink, drive, marry...whatever. While, admittedly, there has been an occasional good to come of it, many, if not most, of their initiatives are blantantly intrusive into our personal lives.

Where's Chris from Middletown, CT telling us that Giuliani is a moderate? I guess it’s kind of hard to call someone who condones torture a moderate. Does anyone else think maybe Chris is a Political Ticker plant working for the Giuliani campaign? I'd bet the farm that when Rudy loses the nomination (and let’s face it, he will lose) Chris stops posting here...

The only Republican who has the correct answer to these questions is McCain. It's sad that Presidential candidates in 2008 are supporting torture. Did we time-warp back to the dark Ages?

Anyone supporting failed, un-American, Bush policy like this doesn't deserve to be our President.

Torture has never proven to provide good intel. Why would we knowingly do something that would cause us to waste valuable time and resources chasing down bogus leads provided from torture? Are we torturing just so Dick and W can get their rocks off?

It's astounding to think that we'd knowingly do something that we know to be illegal as well as useless. It's sheer incompetence if you ask me. Which I guess is about par for the course with this crew.

Quick question for the "ticking time bomb" folks out there. Is it ok if al-qaeda tortures one of our soldiers in the "once in a lifetime event" that they may know of a bomb waiting to explode their terrorist camp at any minute?

I remember a time when America had the high moral ground. Our moral authority was what made us better than the terrorists. Now it's hard to discern between our behavior and that of the terrorists. Pathetic and shameful....

Bob:

PLEASE...enough of the unfounded hysteria.

Waterboarding is not acceptable. – John McCain.

I agree with Senator McCain.

Torture only yield unconfirmable lies.

At least, that's what I'd do if I were tortured...tell them what they want to hear, but not the truth.

Just remember that if a nuke was about to go off in America that a Democrat president would not use waterboarding to find out where it is. Now, who do you trust with our safety?

While I hate to use the term "slippery slope," admitting torture for *some* is no guarantee that others won't be added to the list later.

I've read a lot of posts by supposed Americans who support waterboarding of terrorists. But the definition of terrorist is only that, a definition, and definitions can be expanded.

Remember that saying that starts, "When the Nazis came for the Jews, I did nothing, because I'm not Jewish."

It's like that. There's where we're heading if any torture is tolerated in our country. Who knows who will be next?

' a technique where a person undergoes simulated drowning — would be warranted to obtain critical information from an alleged terrorist, such as the location of a nuclear bomb about to explode.'

Note to media-try to learn the facts. It is not simulated drowning - it's drowning. They just stop before you die–although not always. Over a hundred detainees have died in US custory after 'interrogation.'

And these far-fetches scenarios are ludicrous. What are the chances that someone in US custody would know 'the location of a nuclear bomb'? It's these brainless scare tactics that make the bedwetting cowards of the gop even more terrified and violent.

I do agree with previous posters, though, if we are allow waterboarding, Guiliani ought to be the first to undergo it, for what he did to his wife and children.

Anyone who says torture is ok is no better than Saddam Hussein. Period. We're talking here about very basic things.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If you support torture get the hell out of my country. America does not excuse torture. It's disgusting that you sick people are supporting it.

It's really simple. Waterboarding is torture. America declared waterboarding torture after the Spanish-American war. America has prosecuted people for war crimes for using waterboarding. You CANNOT say that it isn't torture.

So the question is: "Is torture ok?" And anyone who says that torture is ok, is spitting on the American flag and saying the deaths of thousands of our brave soldiers for freedom and justice and liberty are all for nothing.

America is the land of the free and the home of the brave, not the land of sadists and cowards.

Sepcific to Mac in NYC. You may have a decent argument about the necessity to use extreme measures in extreme situations. However, I would assert that, if extreme measures are used under any circumstances, then the person who chooses to take those measures should be held acountable and suffer the consequences. For example, even though it may be humane to end a suffering cancer victim's life, the doctor who does so should lose his/her license. In the case of torture...fine, you use toture to find the location of a nuke...now you must forfeit your right to lead the country and hand it off to someone who's hands aren't dirtied by your actions.

come on rudy, let's not go torturing the terrorists. better to let innocent americans die than to find out where that bomb's at…
Posted By joe adhamyia iraq : December 19, 2007 7:16 pm

WHAT BOMB??!?! This isn't "24"! Our country is plenty secure. The only attack against this country could have been avoided. Islam is not our enemy, but extremism is. Extremism here at home.

You don't beat terrorists by becoming LIKE them. You beat them by being smarter than they are, by being BETTER than they are. And now that we have political leaders saying that torture techniques are "potentially useful" then we've lost the moral high ground. And we NEED the moral high ground. We taught our soldiers to withstand torture and terror techniques because they might encounter them should they be captured by "barbarians." What's the message now? "Torture is now open season, soldier, because it may be useful in some cases." Virtues untested are not virtues. So, is it true that our virtues of treating prisoners in a civilized manner is merely a ruse? That the lesson of General Washington's treatment of British prisoners in the American Revolution is merely a old affectation, and that the modern real world is simply too cut-throat to keep our morals in place? Sad, that those who wish to "keep the world safe" are so willing to turn it into a dark, immoral world in the process.

Remember all the people Jesus tortured?

For all you folks that are against it, let me ask you this...what would you do if some crazed maniac was holding your family hostage and they would be killed by a bomb at a remote location if you didn't find them in time...but you just happened catch him along the way? Would you play nice and ask him to please tell you where they were over and over again? And if he didn't, would you just say OK I guess that's that? Heck no you wouldn't! You, just like anyone else would beat/torture them until they told you what you needed to know to save your family. ANYONE that says they wouldn't is a plain liar or just has no clue about what they are talking about. Coming right out and saying "we will not torture, PERIOD" only emboldens the enemy. Do you have any clue at all about what kind of people we are dealing with here? I suppose you people are on the "bring the troops home NOW" bandwagon too. Hey, I want them home too...when Iraq can stand on it's own two feet. You silly bleeding heart liberals need to get a clue.

I'd like to nail Rudy's junk to a burning log and give him a hatchet to chop himself free. That wouldn't be torture, either, in MY OPINION.

Wonder what Giuliani would say if waterboarding were done on adulterers....

I think we should take Giuliani and his supporters out and waterboard them and see what people think! Even McCain, a prisoner of war, believes waterboarding is torture. Even CIA agents feel waterboarding should not be used – that it has had the opposite effect...lie to get out of going through it.

People – WAKE UP! I'm sorry, but I am seriously afraid of Giulini...he is a liar, a cheater (to his wife and the american public), a waster of tax dollars (using taxpayers money to pay for is lovers security), he has ties to the mob, and tell me again what he has done for this country? Ask the NY Firemen what they think of his job on 9/11!!

If Ghouliani thinks waterboarding is not so bad, why doesn't he try it!!!

In fact, I dare any reporter to ask these torturer supporters to volunteer to be waterboarded and then answer the question. American reporters have lost any sense of integrity and independence!

Ghouliani is just another war mongering, CHICKENHAWK, like Bush.

Rudy:
We should then test some waterboarding on you since is acceptable....
how about it... let's see how long you last...
TORTURE IS NEVER ACEPTABLE!!! NEVER...
NEVER...NEVER...
once the enemy starts torturing our own will see how well this stupit Bush policy is comming to bite you in the rear end.
You are a has been...

I give a years pay to see Rudy waterboarded, along with all the other pro torture Republicans. watch my waterboard christmas video below.

Everyone writing on this topic is very keen to play the, "what if the information given through waterboarding could save your loved ones' lives." However, no one stops to think what if their loved one was wrongly suspected of dealing with terrorists and waterboarded. I didn't see the movie "Rendition," but the premise sounded horrible for the wife in that movie. And by the way, not all people deemed terrorists sympathetic to the extreme Islamists' cause are of Middle Eastern descent. A majority are, but there are whites and blacks as well. Your nephew, who decided to study abroad in Lebanon, could be the next one detained and possibly waterboarded. Then would it be a good idea?

I completely agree with Mayor Guliani's views on waterboarding.

"KSM", the 09/11/2001 mastermind, was most likely waterboarded upon being captured by U.S. authorities.

Clearly this man had valuable information that could potentially endanger countless lives of Americans and our friends throughout the world.

What should have been done to extract crucial information from this bloodthirsty terrorist?

Place him in the Waldorf Astoria, appoint him an attorney (at taxpayer expense, of course) and grant KSM access to the very system that he desperately wants to destroy, thereby treating him tantamount to a traffic offender?

Violence in Iraq and Afghanistan is down, thanks to President Bush and General Patraeus' military leadership.

History will vividly record that the Democrats fought tooth and nail to PREVENT the war on terror and blame America for 09/11/2001.

I, for one, will never forgive many Democrats for their misguided policies and views during this critical time in history.

this was how the Patriot Act got made into American law. "We will omly use it in the most desparate circumstances on the worst terrorists." The next thing you know everybody is being spied on by the government. If these neocon nutjobs get their way on this, soon my son will be waterboarded at the police station so they can find out who is dealing pot at his school. "An eye for an eye" isn't a Christian philosphy and "turn the other cheek" isn't a liberal philosophy, you morons.

People keep using the "ticking bomb" scenario as a justification for torture, often across the board. That is a false scenario, and here's why:

Terrorist groups have no difficulty finding people willing to die in order to carry out attacks on their targets. They fly airplanes into buildings. They detonate explosives-laden vehicles that they are driving. They walk into crowded markets and blow themselves up. Let's say Al-Quaida in fact had in fact brought a nuclear device into NYC. Are they going to change their modus operandi and just leave it there for anyone to find and disarm? Or is the person who placed it (the only person besides some guy in a cave in Afghanistan who knows exactly where it is) going to shout "God is great!" and push the big red button himself? If the planners think he's going to lose his nerve, then they set it up so what he thinks is a timer is a detonator instead. But that bomb is going to go off before the guy who delivered it takes his next breath.

Think about it. These people specialize in suicide bombers. Instant heaven and all that. It's how they operate. The 9/11 hijackers didn't parachute out of the planes at the last minute; why would the guy with the bomb be trying to get out of town? And even if he did, what does he have to lose by giving the interrogators the WRONG location so it blows up while they're on a wild goose chase? SOE agents in Europe during WW2 held out under Gestapo interrogation long enough for their contacts to go to ground, and most of them were just ordinary people. Your religious fanatic won't have any problems at all enduring waterboarding for an hour until that bomb goes off.

Incidentally, there are several different versions of the story involving Abu Zubayda's interrogation and torture. One is the day after a single session of waterboarding, he gave massive amounts of accurate, critical, and immediately actionable intelligence information. The other is that after weeks of various types of ... extreme measures ... he talked, all right, but it was pure crap, stuff he made up to get it to stop, and did nothing but waste time and resources following up on worthless information.

And, by the way, both versions come from people who were present at the interrogations.

My abhorrence of torture has nothing to do with the neocon straw man that has been presented here, that I somehow am sympathetic to terrorists or want to give them hugs and kisses. Not at all. It has everything to do with me, and with my country. America is better than that. We have always been the ones to condemn the use of torture, not find ways to excuse it. We are people who speak out for freedom, not people who justify an action that has been throughout time the mark of the tyrant. It is not what it will do to anyone else that I fear the most, but what it will do to us.

Safety at any price? Patrick Henry said "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of throwing away everything we once held to be true? Everything we once knew to be right? Everything we once upheld as a beacon of justice to the world? Everything that once set us above the tyrants and dictators?

We applaud "the troops" for risking their lives in the country's service. Are we so cowardly that we will not accept any risk, even if the price of that temporary safety is the very ideals that those men and women we have sent to Iraq are told they are fighting and dying to protect? Have we outsourced our patriotism? Sacrificed "the troops" on the altar of convenience, while refusing to accept even the smallest modicum of risk ourselves in defense of our justice, liberty, and what was once the American way?

Many years ago, I was turned down for military service (they need people with functional knees). I can't fight for my country. But what I can do, what all of us can do, is accept that we must endure some amount of risk as the price of our freedom. Because we cannot outsource patriotism. We cannot pay someone to face all the dangers of liberty for us. Are we still a nation of patriots? Or are we to become a nation of cowards, ready to sacrifice our principles, our traditions, our honor, and the lives of our young men and women, in a futile attempt to protect ourselves from all danger? Or are we a nation of patriots?

I can only answer for myself, but I answer in Patrick Henry's immortal words: Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Pete in NYC commented "I agree with Guiliani and so do most people I know..."

He must have a very small circle of friends ... those who approve of water boarding under any circumstances are in the minority ... like rational people voting for Rudy ...

Waterboarding is simulated drowning. Not actual drowning, not partial drowning... To those who suggest otherwise, you are uninformed, or perhaps misinformed. A plastic barrier over the mouth prevents water from entering the mouth, thus preventing any "drowning" at all, but still making the person being waterboarded FEEL like they are drowning (invokes the gag reflex, I've read). That said, it doesn't sound like this procedure permanently damages the physical body and therefore doesn't rise to the level of torture. No matter how others define it, torture to me is causing permanent damage to someone's physical body (beatings, popping fingernails off with bamboo shoots, stabbings, etc.) Torture, by this definition, is unacceptable for anyone claiming to represent the United States of America.

Giuliani's answer inspires in me just two words: RON PAUL. If anyone thinks GWB was bad, just wait till we get someone truly vicious like Rudy in office. Does anyone really think RUDY would bat an eye if he thought he needed to waterboard an American citizen? Should we trust bureaucrats to decide who gets tortured, who disappears, who doesn't get a trial?

There is nothing wrong with water boarding.It's time the weak wake up and get with the program. We are not the Enemy.

It is frightening that this man – and others like him – have any support at all.

Here is an article that really puts this issue in some perspective.

http://www.politicalarticles.net/GetMyArticles/index.php?CatID=43&ArtID=104368

When answering the tough questions on the issues in future presidential debates, Rudy Guiliani should volunteer to be waterboarded to prove it is not torture. Don't feel like doing that, Rudy? Why not?
The arguments over whether these "advanced interrogation techniques" are torture or not is ridiculous. The constitution protects against "cruel and unusual punishment." It's so simple that these discussions shouldn't even exist! And the constitution also protects people, not just citizens. What law school did you go to, Rudy? Remind me not to apply!
We can't throw away our system of jurisprudence – trial by jury, innocent until proven guilty – in the name of security. When we do that, everything is lost.
Kind of like your campaign.

My, my, my... Giuliani...an undercover sadist!!!!!

if strapping me down and giving me a shower somehow saves hundreds of lives, sign me up.

i hope everyone keeps in mind how comfortable the conspirators are when the next big attack happens and we're left with innocent dead. You simply can't ask a fanatic nicely to give in. stop being idealistic and get realistic.

By the way, according to a cnn article maybe 2-3 weeks ago, your face is covered during this technique so no water goes in your mouth. so drop the "real drowning" nonsense.

For all of the Guliani supporters, becareful what you wish for. This man could never run our nation at a global scale. Sad but true!!

For the blabbering W brigade who think torture is just peachy keen

Is it acceptable to rape, torture or kill children if trying to get information from their parents?

And just what remedies apply to those wrongly tortured?

Do those victims then get to inflict the same brutalities on those who ordered and carried out their torture?

If not, why?

How hard is it to understand that when we torture prisoners, our enemies can justify torturing American prisoners of war? When it comes to this subject, people like Rudy and Mitt should pay a little closer attention to what John McCain has to say.

Mario ID
yes you repubs like to kill kill kill.,that why bush started a war ,.but then he sent dems to be killed ,.not many repubs join the milatary or go to war,.repubs see the boys n girls dying over there as helping cull the population of the poor people .,open new jobs up and just another way to get rid of usa min wage people so the illegals they brought over here have enough jobs n wont go home,.,.yeah maccain a real great son of satans n bush too

Giuliani isn't doing well at all. The latest national poll released today has him sinking by 13% in a month, and now in a tie with Romney and Huckabee. Link

maybe they ought to waterboard Giuliani till he tells us the truth about 9/11,..,yeah lets do it .,.,.,txtj

Somebody should waterboard this idiot and see how acceptable he finds it.

Obama 08.

I bet most of you would also consider it torture if you don’t’ get beers during a football game. Come on, admit it. You wuss. Americans are sooooo spoiled.

Excellent interview. Loved the way Wolf fired the questions at Giuliani. Old school news man in action. Giuliani held up pretty well. Spilled a couple names it sounded like he would have rather not said yet.

Would love to see all of the viable candidates interviewed in like manner. I feel like finally somebody got some real answers from a candidate.

So if it was your son or daughter, brother or sister, husband or wife who could be saved by getting information from a terrorist by dunking their head under water a few times, you wouldn't support it? Put another way, you're right, it's better to let thousands of innocent people die painful deaths than dunk a terrorist' head under water. Youre all brainwashed!!!!!

And the sell-out is now complete.

I would expect the "Godfather" to say something like that. At least he's being honest.

Incredible!

Former Mayor Giuliani once again demonstrates that he is in no way qualified to be President.

In fact, if he believes that torture is an acceptable way for this nation to gather intelligence he is no longer qualified to be Mayor of new York.

What an incredible idiot!

I'm all for democracy and public discourse, but the use of torture should not be a subject of debate. Let me remind Giuliani and the rest of this country something... THIS IS AMERICA. WE DO NOT TORTURE. For 200+ years we've been fighting enemies who willingly tortured us so they can squash our freedom. We are above torture; we are the defenders of freedom. We fight so that all of us can live, breathe and act free. We must set the standard that everyone else in this world must follow.

So we do not torture. We do not consider torture as an option. We do not even talk about it, or even think about it. We have fought and won wars without torturing the enemy, whomever that might be. We can win this war and other wars without torture, no matter who we're fighting or what the circumstances are.

I can't believe this is even something we're talking about. I can't believe anyone who calls themselves American would be in favor to waterboarding or any other torturous act. I almost get the feeling they favor it only because it's the easy way to get things done. Basically, they want us to sell our souls so we can win. I want to win too, but I want to win as an American. Americans don't resort to the tactics of the very enemy of freedom that we're fighting– Americans win by demonstrating and defending the very freedom that has held this nation together for 200+ years.

These so-called Americans who advocate the use of torture ought to be ashamed of themselves. Let me repeat– AMERICANS DO NOT ADVOCATE OR PRACTICE TORTURE. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT.

Okay, a question for you. We KNOW that a nuclear device is set to go off in a large city, and millions will likely die. We have in custody an individual who knows the exact location of the device but won't talk. What do you do?

Do you let millions die? I believe Guliani is correct. In very rare cases (which need to be documented), this procedure can and should be used. And before you start on with an idealist rant, assume your family members, spouse, girlfriend/boyfriend, etc. are in the city that is the likely target. Are you willing to let millions die because you are not a realist?

I'm an idealist but also a realist. Under controlled, very documented conditions, and subject to accountability for those involved, this technique can and should be used. A slippery slope can be managed with tight controls.

"america, you have lost your moral compass. so sad"

++++++++++++

Baloney!

THE RELATIVES OF THE VICTIMS OF 911 GO THROUGH DAILY MENTAL WATERBOARDING. SO, TURN ABOUT IS FAIR PLAY. RIGHT ON RUDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Osama were smart, he'd lay down his gun, shave his beard and go to the Caribbean. After all, he's already won.

Terrorism only works if you're terrified. And the fact that so many Americans are ready to torture–TORTURE, by AMERICANS–is proof that indeed, we appear to be terrified.

Remember WWII? We all came together to fight the dastardly Japanese, who attacked us when we were staying out of the war. Every man who could enlisted, every woman took a job in an arms factory. And we built, and fought, and died, to make sure that the world would never see such tactics as Japan and Germany were using. This BEFORE we found the death camps. Oh yes, we had the moral high ground then, by a mile.

How far we have fallen.

Real simple stuff here "geniuses", and since the MSM won't put the truth out there, I will:

THREE people in total have been waterboarded, not the hundreds that the MSM makes it seem. FACT

Two of those three gave up KSM, who if you sheep forget was the MASTERMIND behind 9-11 that killed our fellow INNOCENT CITIZENS. FACT

Two of the three were not being cooperative UNTIL waterboarding was used and they gave up the GOOD information RIGHT AWAY. FACT

Also as part of the information given were details that STOPPED MULTIPLE ATTACKS that were in the planning stages that would have been all around the world and and the US. FACT

Nancy Pelosi and other high ranking DEMOCRATS were given a tour of Gitmo and were FULLY briefed on ALL methods that were being USED and NOBODY OBJECTED at all, in fact some questioned is it enough. FACT

I would gather that all of you would do ANYTHING to protect your loved ones as I would, so why can't Bush? FACT

Waterboarding simulates drowning, getting your head cut off by dirtbags SIMULATES nothing, it is REAL. FACT

Found within the last year or so in Iraq were CURRENT manuals and torture rooms and how to torture our brave men and women soldiers and NOT part of the manual was waterboarding as they deem it NOT tough enough. FACT

Put these truthful FACTS out there and I guarantee that the majority of people would be fine with it under some circumstances. FACT

I know of NOBODY that does not agree with me and that includes ALL my Democratic leaning friends. FACT

Having a 9/10/01 mentality is going to get us killed. FACT

Merry Christmas.

How stupid is this government. We already have a law that says waterboarding is torture. Just like we already have a law that inforces immigration, and coin making protection(Ron Paul story). Here's a crazy idea, lets inforce the laws we aready have and stop trying to rewrite the basis of our Justice System. Ohh yea I forgot our government don't need to follow the laws since we are a Monarchy. Right?

I have no compassion for those who would murder me if they could. I say, just kill them. If they have information that could save lives, then hurt them until they cough it up. Saddam Hussein did not deserve a trial; he should have been shot in the forehead without ceremony when he was captured. Or, the CEOs who know that their pharmaceutical company is selling medicine that causes heart attacks, just torture them until they confess. Murderers deserve to be murdered. Everybody has to die sooner or later anyway, so all we'd be doing is shaving a few years off of a worthless lifetime anyway.

BUT, I have great compassion for the innocent who are falsely accused and falsely held. Even here in America, we have plenty of innocent people in jail, and they all had trials, lawyers, and rights. Legal processes were carefully observed, but we put innocent men (almost always men) in the slammer for life or we executed innocent men. Every week, I read of another man exculpated by DNA evidence, who were convicted by a judge and jury that was convinced of his guilt. I think about all those innocent men who will never be released because the real rapist or murderer did not leave any DNA. In a recent Texas case, the state's Attorney General had evidence in their files that proved the innocence of a man who had been in jail for a decade. When the evidence finally came to light, the prosecutor said it was not HIS job to help the defense.

With no legal protectiona at all, we can be sure that we are holding and torturing innocent men, who had no trial, no lawyers (no laws even), no judge, no jury. We will torture them until they make up some story that we want to hear and we will say, "See, I knew he was guilty!"

The system under which our war prisoners are being held was designed by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld; men who are not smart and not good people.

Years from now, it will all come out. We will hear the stories of the things that happened in those camps, we will see the photos and videos, and we will all declare, "Why, I never suspected that such terrible things were happening there. Who could have known? Besides, I voted for Gore and Kerry I'm pretty sure – or maybe I didn't vot that year. It's certainly not MY fault."

Rudy Rudy Rudy not so fresh and oh so tooty.... You just have to be written out of the 2008 presidential election. A Stalag mentality like your buddy BUSH's can never be tolerated again in american society.

To Bill, Fort Riley, KS : (December 19, 2007 7:29 pm)

I'm no pacifist and I would have no problem defending myself againt any fascist, whether it by the Islamic, nazi or American variety. The particular culture may be different, but the mindset of the fascist is similar. The criminal band hiding in the Pakistani mountains is not nearly as great of a threat to our freedoms as our home grown authoritarians, law breakers and those willing to make up the rules and law as they go along.

Of those who are willing to overlook the moral implications and say they agree, waterboarding should be allowed in "special" circumstances answer this:
HOW DO WE EVEN KNOW INFORMATION GAINED THAT WAY IS ACCURATE ANYHOW! Yes, torture can get people to talk, but not that they'll tell the truth. Besides, are we really to this point? Torture is ok? Really? You people ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

america, you have lost your moral compass. so sad.

If it's us or them, I'd rather waterboard a terrorist than see one American soldier get hurt or killed.

Bill,Maybe you need a history lesson so you can understand why we are having the problems in the Middle East anyway. I guess your one of those idiots that think they hate us because of our freedom. If it wasn't for the actions of our government over the past 50 years we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

When I was in the military in the 70's, there were certain advanced schools, for the elite soldiers, where we water-boarded our own soldiers, hooked them up to mild electric shock chairs, and at times even drew blood from our own by cutting them. All done to show how it is to not be in control of one's own existence, and yet persevere. Water boarding is not torture. It just sucks big time, and it works.

after reading a few comments from some readers who are VERY uninformed about waterboarding, I felt I should add this:

if waterboarding is done correctly, water will not enter the lungs. that is why it is quite simply, a "mental game". it feels like you are drowning because there is water in your mouth and you can barely breath. people barely can stand more than about 14 seconds.

I would rather waterboard a terrorist than give an american condolences for their dead family member.

we will never win a politically correct war.

I would dare say that most of you clowns that are against waterboarding would be the first ones in line looking for a lawyer (John Edwards comes to mind) that would sue the government after the next terrorist attack for not doing enough to prevent that attack.

I have read that exactally three terrorists of Muslim/Islamist persuasion have been waterboarded, with one having a devine visit from Allah to help him reconsider his thought process. Good intel was gathered from two, and lives were saved.

I suspect most of you may be of the Bill Richardson mentality (human rights over national security) but I'll go with Rudy on this one.

Just because you have the tools, does not mean you have to use them, but it is nice to know they are there. Our enemies should know we have those tools at our disposal.

The hard part is knowing that you will have every attention grabbing politician and lawyer second guessing the decision to use this process after the fact.

Great! After having seen the comments above, I wish to congratulate Osama bin Laden. You won! I tip my hat off to you.

Glad to see Americans hate America so much more than the terrorists.

America will never be destroyed by the nuts in the world from abroad. It will be destroyed by the nuts we have here.

When in Rome.....

when I think of torture, I certainly do not think of waterboarding. torture is sawing off a limb, putting someone's feet to the fire, shoving bamboo shoots up someone's finger nails. scaring a terrorist, making him think he is drowning is not torture – it's a mental game. Key members of Congress knew of our waterboarding of the 3 men we have only officially waterboarded and they didn't care. but now – oh, yeah – boohoo on waterboarding.

waterboarding works – we waterboarded KSM in 2003 and he helped us capture 6 other terrorists known to have killed americans.

Is Rudy then prepared to say that we should apologize to the Japanse who used water torture against B-29 aircrew in an attempt to prevent firebombing of their cities. Is he prepared to say those Japanese interrogators were wrongly convicted? I'd like to see him say that while looking our World War II vets in the eye.

This issue as well as several others reflects the hypocrisy of several "christian" politians. How is inducing drowning Christian? How does it make us more moral than our enemies? I'm not saying we should roll over and say, "Go ahead" to our enemies; rather I'm saying that given our position of power internationally we should set the moral standard. Giuliani is definitely not doing this.

Amerika rocks!

Water boarding would be the last thing on my mind if you were threatening my family. Go ahead throw me in jail, some activist judge is sure to let me go...

So Guiliani is in favor of torture? Yeah, he's someone I want leading our once great nation.

This Romney guy is just a loose canon. He doesn't talk like the leader of the free world, he sounds like a petty politician looking for a headline. Look at how McCain deliveres a similar statement (i.e. it should have been Gen. Petreus) in a far more statesman-like way.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Blog/Read.aspx?guid=11ca770f-b7de-423e-8d38-2b1887943d77

At least McCain bothers to understand what Time magazine is looking to achieve and how it has awarded this 'title' in previous years:

--
Time's choices for Person of the Year are often controversial. Editors are asked to choose the person or thing that had the greatest impact on the news, for good or ill—guidelines that leave them no choice but to select a newsworthy—not necessarily praiseworthy—cover subject.
(Taken from Time's own website)
--

"Many human rights organizations consider waterboarding to be torture."

I'm pretty sure every human rights organization that ever existed considers waterboarding to be torture.

All you Liberal loving idiots just make me laugh! we have terrorists killing our troops, our people (remember 9/11 or did you forget already) These idiots want us dead, they kidnap us, kill us and others of course, you liberal idiots just worship them. They can go hide a bomb, nuke...whatever in this country, it goes off and we cry, "Why didn't the governement do something about it" sure the Geneva convention...how many have broke those stupid rules! No, go ahead and torture those idiots, it saves lives in the long run,it even saves the lives of liberal fools in this country. My god, we have turned into a bunch of wusses! I don't want the terrorist tortured...I say kill them before they kill us. I hope we don't get a liberal as our next president, if so they will give this country away to the U.N.

American's greatest enemies are within our own borders and follow along blindly behind an agenda driven media..

Hey Rudy! Let's waterboard you so you can finally make up your sinister mind.
Or would you and Hillary like to volley the flip-flop some more? You change your affections as frequently as she changes her positions.

If waterboarding is cool, then I guess we shouldn't rule out cutting off someone's fingers or maybe even torturing a possible terrorist's mother in front them? Ya never know Rudy!

Lee, Mays Landin:

I got an idea Lee...why don't you enlist in the armed forces and request a tour in Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm sure in those places you will have ample time and opportunity to hug and understand those that want to kill you...unless, of course they KILL YOU. Perhaps, upon your return, if you are still amongst the living, you will be less inclined to stereotype those that do not agree with your naive misguided pacifist positions.

We prosecuted and EXECUTED Japanese soldiers that waterboarded US Marines.

I guess at that time waterboarding was torture, but not now. Is that right, and is it OK for other nations to waterboard our soldiers and Marines Rudy.

You know what, these Republicans Neanderthals (who have never fought in one themselves, except for McCain who is against torture) want WAR, WAR and more WAR, need to just go away waterboard themselves, and leave this nation to the sane people who want peace and prosperity.

Oh Rudy just go away already, you have no chance of getting the Republican nomination.

We better wake up as a nation. They decapitate, torture, set afire children, and our liberal progressives are worried about a little water to the head. Someone needs to explain this mindset to me.

I THOROUGHLY DISAGREE WITH THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR'S POSITION. THE JAPANESE USED THIS IN WW2 - AND THE PRISONERS TOLD THAT CAMP COMMANDER ONE THING: GOD WILL JUDGE YOUR ACTIONS.

come on rudy, let's not go torturing the terrorists. better to let innocent americans die than to find out where that bomb's at...

Yes, by all means lets tickle them to death. The rules have changed, and we are dealing with people that behead our soldiers, and strap bombs to their bodies murdering children in the process. Do whatever it takes to these people, and **** em.

... Many human rights organizations consider waterboarding to be torture. ... That's an understatement. Many COURTS have considered it torture also, even as far back as 100 years ago. After World War II, Japanese were tried as war criminals for using the technique. Now, opposing torture is considered a "liberal" position, vs. an American position.

When will they learn? Research has already proven that torture does not work! All they get from torture is false confessions and bad information from people that will say anything to make it stop; this isn't the movies people.

Shorter Guiliani: It's torture, except when we do it. Then it's ok.

I think it's important to remember that America is very familiar with water boarding evidenced by the fact that we have classified it as torture and even prosecuted Japanese soldiers in during WW2 who water boarded our soldiers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html

If the US wants to adopt torture as a policy, then fine. But don't go around preaching to other nations about democracy and freedom and "civilized" society if we are going to implement the same techniques our enemies use.

What don't people in government get about this issue? Don't they understand torture in any form, no matter how unimportant it may seem to them, is not ok at any time for any reason, and that includes waterboarding. torture is torture is torture. Period!

Wolf what will it take to get a national primary, voting machines that have a paper trail, congress that does it's job instead of their party or special interest wishes, secure our borders and a govt that enforces our laws without political interference????

No Rudy, you idiot, wrong answer. IT'S AGAINST THE LAW.

Hey Rudy lets practice waterboarding on you for cheating on your wives, lying to the people of NYC, and for putting the Communications Sercurity for NYC in the Twin Towers...

Yet another example of how ill-prepared the Republicans are to lead this country. Has Rudy ever read the Geneva Conventions?

Honestly this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while... a short while, considering this is presidential politics season... You start sliding down a slippery slope when you start making exceptions. One exception here, one exception there... and next thing you know the exception become the generally accepted course... I do realize though that Giuliani does have to pander to the right-wingers out there and statements like this does do that.

Giuliani, needs to undergo a session of waterboarding for his corruption filled career as NYC Mayor, if not for 9-11 Giuliani would be hailed as NYC worst mayor and most corrupt official. He had dealings with well known drug sydicates heads. Hell has a nice warm spot waiting on his carcass.

Why is waterboarding any diffferent that sticking somebody's head in a waterbucket and holding their head down. Water flows downward. No different than tossing somebody out of a helicopter. The South Vietnese did it all the time and undoutedly it was done in WW11. The object is to get people to talk and save lives.

I want Giuliani waterboarded until he tells me what's going on with 911 lung disease and why he tries to cover it up. I'm a 911 victim and i do not support ANY republican war mongers!

Rudy Giuliani is a despicable human being. He should volunteer himself to be waterboarded. This ghoulish man is unfit to govern this great nation. I just hope Americans see him for what he is, a pretender, a fraud, a miscreant.

He really is right. I mean can you just say, "No waterboarding. Period." ?? I don't think so. It's not a black and white topic. As he says, rarely. But still legal.

~Will Conway
RegardingLiberty.blogspot.com

No surprise here. Giuliani is a fascist, no doubt. Anyone living in New York during Giuliani's reign can attest to that. Now some people like fascists, so there were people in New York who liked him. But those who like freedom were not big fans of Giuliani. He was more than a little bit nuts at times.

Torture leaves a person broken in mind and body. Waterboarding does none of those things, but only causes a phsycholeffect, leaving the interogated person fully capable of performing every feat and skill both physical or mental that he was ever capable of before.

I'm sure this freak condones thumb-screws and electric shock to the testicles perfectly within the pervue of 'interrogation' as well.

He is an abomination to the human race and should never have been allowed in the gene-pool.

Now that the US is officially on the HRW list of countries-that-torture, what difference does it really make whether it's once a decade or twice or 10 times? A country tortures or does not; period!

I can not beleif that aturture in any way should be acceptable by anyone cevilized personn,what make us better than those terrorist,who may use the same logic?.
Mr.Giuliani is no different.

I accept WaterBoarding as a sure fire deterrent to them bastards who want to do the same or worse to us. Anyone who doesn't want to do it, I will take thier turn and do it to any terorist that may or may not have information to give up. Look what it did to get Abu Zubayda or even Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the subsequent information it gained and the lives it saved. If they didn't want it done to them, they shouldn't have done what they did to us!

All I can say is: Too Bad!

The good of the many outweigh the good of the one. Although torture is an abhorent method of obtaining crucial information, there are times when we must forcibly extract information from someone that does not want to share. I think Guilani's example is a valid one and kudos to him for having the guts to say it and stand behind it.

I agree with Guiliani and so do most people I know. To say that we will not do it (or even more harsh measures) under ANY circumstances is to lie. I can easily think of circumstances where it would be acceptable and anyone who doesn't is being intellectually dishonest, perhaps even to themselves.

There is also a false assumption on the part of many that torture means what it says it means in the Torture Convention. That is NOT what it means at all – it really means what it says it means in the Declarations and Reservations section, which is to say it means whatever each country wants it to me at any given time.

It's interesting that they always refer to waterboarding as "simulated drowning." Drowning happens when your lungs fill with water, and that is exactly what happens during waterboarding. The only thing "simulated" about it is that the person doing it stops before your lungs fill and you die.

It's not simulated drowning - it's actual drowning, truncated.

How do we explain that water boarding is acceptable to those countries the U.S. prosecuted for war crimes for its use in past wars?

How have we become so lost in our political morality that serious candidates for President can be in favor of what has been officially categorized as a war crime by our nation for decades?

All the more reason we need a visionary like Obama, and not reactionaries who "go with the flow" like Giuliani, Clinton, Romney etc. We have lost our way and need moral leadership.

Lest we forget "W"'s immortal words: "America DOES NOT torture".

No, we Americans don't....we have secret prison camps elsewhere for that.

And we USED to have the tapes to PROVE it until the CIA destroyed them after they were told Not to.

I smell something funky. Smells like Imperialism.

Once you find it acceptable sometimes, than it becomes acceptable, and the interrogator who is on the side of "right and might" and without any law constraining, can find more and more instances to use it.

Once you allow this form or torture, it's not a great leap to just have bone breaking, medieval devices like the rack, or modern right-wing central american/CIA techniques like electrodes to one's potatoes or some other genital mutilation.

Rudy knows that the republican "base" somehow loves the idea or torture, perhaps as collective "payback" for "9-11". It's more about bloodthirsty revenge and has very little to do with actually getting reliable intelligence.

We had reliable intelligence BEFORE 9-11 without torture or any unconstitutinal acts but we had leaders who were disinterested, lazy, and did not bother to put agencies on alert and talking to each other.

In the end, the terrorists won because they made us change, caused us to take to evil measures, and made our foolish leaders go on a general "crusade" rather than just catching and punishing the band that were responsible. Now bin Laden looks to be a hero to many in the Arab world (like some Iraqi youth) when before he was a marginal lunatic/criminal.

Once again we see the classic Giuliani. Acknowledge the need for human rights and civil liberties....but only when its convenient.

Sooo Rudy!, it's OK for America to torture but then we prosecute and demonize others in other countries for it?

I long for the day when I can resume being a proud American. Our leadership and even our potential leaders are without question acting: Un-American.

I want my country back!

Coming from Guiliani, this must mean each person should be waterboarded once in a lifetime or even once a decade. Hence his statement: “once in a lifetime, once in a decade situation.” Thanks for the clarification Rudy!

Torture is torture is torture, and we've already labeled waterboarding as such. The president of the United States should be working to stop torture here and abroad, not to promote and justify it's use. Simple as that.

Isn't this one of the reasons why conservatives claim it was necessary to invade Iraq – to stop Saddam from torturing people?

So what's next, putting suspected terrorists on the rack or ramming ice picks under toenails? As if we needed another reason not to vote for Giuliani.

Let's waterboard Guliani and he can let us know if it's ok

what a loser

You failed the quiz Guliani!!!

The correct answer is "IT IS NEVER ALRIGHT TO TORTURE".

America expects more from their Commander-In-Chief!!!

We had Japanese soldiers hanged for using waterboarding on American soldiers. We found it torture back then and we still find it to be totured today. Anyone who has used this technique should be considered as a war crime.