April 24th, 2008
12:16 PM ET
7 years ago

The popular vote debate

If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote.
If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote.

(CNN) - Sen. Hillary Clinton is arguing that she is ahead of rival Sen. Barack Obama when it comes to the popular vote.

"I'm very proud that as of today, I have received more votes by the people who have voted than anyone else," Clinton said Wednesday, one day after her decisive win in Pennsylvania.

Not so fast, says Obama's campaign. Clinton's count includes her wins in Michigan and Florida, but the Democratic presidential candidates agreed not to campaign in those states because they violated party rules by scheduling their contests too early.

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soundoff (627 Responses)
  1. Gebriel

    What the Hell? I dont understand how someone just faces the camera and just right out lie (sorry bend the truth). I guess Bill coached her in that respect.

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  2. woogie

    You can't have a revote in Michigan because it was an open primary. You could vote in either parties primary regardless of your party affiliation.

    Limit the vote to party members at the time of the first primary and you disenfranchise Republicans and independents who voted in the first primary.

    Open it up to everyone and you have those who voted Republican voting in the new Democratic primary and having their votes counted twice.

    It's a no win situation in Michigan. The only way I would say to count the votes were if Obama's name were on the ballot.

    As for Florida, count them, both names were on the ballot, although there are some issues pertaining to the candidate campaigning in the state. Obama's adds on national TV that made it into the state, and Clinton's fund raising events in the state. If these are considered violations of the rules then the candidate doesn't get the votes.

    Any way you look at it the rules were in place and the candidates and state parties agreed to them. You can't change that now.

    As for the right to vote that only applies to elections for government office, these are party primaries not elections so your right to vote doesn't exist. It is the rules of the party that count.

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  3. Stan Zazado

    This is absolutely the type of political rhetoric that has been pushed down our throats for the last eight years. Does she think the American people are that stupid and don't realize those votes don't count. How can you count votes the from two contests that she agreed would not count? But I guess if she will do anything to win its to be expected!!

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  4. CB in Florida

    It sounds like ol' Hillary's getting tired on the campaign trail again. She forgets that she was fine with disenfranchising the voters in Michigan and Florida, and that she also approved their demise before the battle began. Hillary is convinced that if she tells this lie enough it will be accepted as true, kind of like her sniper fire interrupted trip to Bosnia. Hillary, stop the madness on why you should clinch the party's nomination.

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  5. Madison , PA

    Injustice in the election will bring the country to the CIVIL WAR...We need JUSTICE

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  6. Ernest

    Hello Elvira!-Mistress of the dark

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  7. ralph

    What a lady!!! How can one campaign do so much damage to an entire party? I haven't said it before, but I'm saying it now – GO AWAY, please.

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  8. Obama Campaigns in MI and FL

    Obama did campaign in Michigan and Florida. He launched national TV ads which aired in Florida and his name was on the ballot (only stated because this is his argument for suppressing the voters of Michigan). He also ran a campaign in Michigan to have people vote uncommitted. He took his name off the ballot there as a gamble thinking it would cause New Hampshire and Iowa to vote against his opponents, particularly Hillary. Remember, some of the other democrats running for president remained on the ballot as well. Obama ran his campaign, he ran his ads, and therefore the states should count. Obama says he will only agree to seat MI and FL if he is the nominee. Another veil attempt to say to those voters "you can have a say in the primaries but only if it doesn't hurt my chances of becoming the nominee". If the DNC agrees with Obama and suppresses the voters of Michigan and Florida, the Democrats will have zero chances of winning in November.

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  9. Fedia

    Okay, now you got evrething, what else?????Frensh say rie le premier qui rira le dernier.....Enjoy now and will be crying all the rst of your live because of missing to become the President of the USA......

    April 24, 2008 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm |
  10. Larz

    And if we included all the people that wanted their votes to count (say in Canada, Europe, Africa,) there'd be no contest. Come on – Michigan and Florida do not count, will not count, and should not count based on an agreement she made.

    She's got a horrible case of mouth diarreha. Nothing she says is fit for human consumption.

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  11. Burnie Peacock

    How the DNC allows the Clinton camp to chnage the rules they established before this processed started amazes me. The fact that Dean and party leaders let them get away with this nonsense is gives the impression they would support this flawed numbers logic the Clintons are now trying to use. The Clintons are chmapions oif providing distortions and mis information..I would NEVER vote for HRC EVER AGAIN for any position

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  12. Please End This!

    This woman is just plain crazy. I predict it will take at least 5 people to drag her from the convention in a straight jacket and then a restraining order to keep her away from the White House and President Obama. Geez!

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  13. J CREECH

    HERE WE GO AGAIN! WHEN WILL "THE HILL AND BILL" GIVE UP WITH CHANGING THE RULES. I BELIEVE IT IS TIME FOR THE DNC PARTY TO S T O P THIS NOW. WE ARE GOING TO MISS OUT ON A MAN THIS IS TRYING TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, AND WITH THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY. LET'S ALL PUT THIS TO BED – NOW – BEFORE ANOTHER VIEW COMES OUT

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  14. Deb, Iowa

    She is sooo dillusional! It goes by the delegates, and if she was ahead on delegates, she would surely be pointing that out. This Really needs to stop!

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  15. A, T.

    By hearing this I think this mother is just dreaming or so unrealistic? Are we having the same information? Well let's just be serious and stop jokes about serious issues!

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  16. Gregory T, NYC

    WILL THE SUPERDELEGATES PLEASE STAND UP AND STOP THIS MONSTROUS TRAVESTY BEFORE THIS person RUINS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR ALL TIME!!!
    BILLARY HAVE PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT THEY CARE NOTHING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THEY WANT TO WIN AT ALL COST AND THEY WILL SCORCH THE EARTH TO GET IT DONE. AT LEAST ROMNEY HAD THE DECENCY TO STEP OUT OF THE RACE SO THE REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE A BETTER CHANCE IN NOVEMBER. HILLARY IS WORKING FOR THE McCAIN CAMPAIGN!!!

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  17. Tony

    This is just insane. She (and Obama) actually signed a pledge stating that the Michigan primary results will not count prior to the primary. A SIGNED PLEDGE!!!! What's next? She retracts the statements she makes while being sworn in as President? This has to be the biggest character hit she has taken so far. Obama should be all over this.

    April 24, 2008 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm |
  18. Tom

    To Julie in Oakland. We can’t really have a fair revote in Michigan because we are an open primary state. The dynamics of the race have changed so much and the Republicans already have their candidate, so this would leave the republicans in Michigan the opportunity to skew the outcome if they were to follow that fat jerk Rush’s advice and vote for Hillary just because he thinks she would easier to beat in the fall. As a Michigan voter who would love to have my vote count, I face the reality that it can’t be done fairly anymore. I would be more inclined to say that Hillary could have her 55% if Obama could have the remaining 45%, but that wouldn’t change anything in the end.

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  19. Think about it

    When you just step back and think about you come to this conclusion.
    This is how stupid the Clintons think the American people are.

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  20. Angie

    If you give the "uncommitted vote" for Obama (which was Michigander's only way to vote for Edwards or Obama), then Clinton is no longer in the lead, even with MI and FL in the mix. So, Hillary, if you are going to include "every person who has voted" then you have to give the uncommitted vote to Obama, since his name wasn't on the ballot. Then you still aren't in the lead. That number also leaves out caucus states that don't report popular vote numbers.

    Oh, the more important point? We decide this race on delegates, not the popular vote... otherwise California and New York would decide the nominee. If this were a popular vote contest, both candidates would have pursued different strategies.

    I'm sick of Hillary touting herself as the champion of voters rights in MI and FL (only after the fact when she needed them), while making excuses to explain all of Obama's wins and marginalizing large groups of people who didn't happen to choose her: the party activists, caucus states, African-American, the educated, the young... Please, stop trying to change the rules daily to try to keep your foot in the door Hillary! You are damaging yourself and your husband's legacy. Its Obama's time.

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  21. PH in OK

    Do you people writting comments even know what a caucas is? You don't take everyones vote...the majority at the caucas wins. That is why you don't count a caucas in the "popular vote". Why shouldn't Hillary count Florida and Michigan...Barack's team doesn't seem to think those votes count. Does he not think they will vote in the General election? Count all the votes.

    Hillary/Obama '08

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  22. Illinois Voter

    Um. How about we don't count all the Illinois people who participated in the Iowa caucus for Obama? Or the fact that even though she won the popular vote in Texas, Obama managed to get more delegates because his organizers were able to work the system. If states want their votes to count in an election, there should be votes, not caucuses.

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  23. becky

    People need to wake up and realize this race is over.  So Indiana and North Carolina, you can vote for someone who has already lost or you can vote for Obama who already has won this race.   I keep hearing there is a race for popular vote.  If there is a race for popular vote, how do you count caucus states (i.e Alaska, Washington State, etc.) where there are no true popular numbers ?  So to me the popular vote rhetoric cannot be used by the super delegates in deciding this race.  Truly superdelegates should take a look at the delegate counts.  Both candidates will beat John McCain, so electability shouldn't be an issue.  Infact on the issue of electability,  the Republicans appear to prefer to run against Hillary, than Obama.  

    Bottom line, the Democratic Party has it's Presidential Candidate.  It is Obama.  He has won the most pledged delegates, he has won the most states, and given the fact that there is no true way of deciphering popular vote received by some of the caucus states it is unusable.   Regardless of the outcome of North Carolina and Indiana,  Obama has already won the Democratic primary for 2008.   The sooner people realize this, the sooner the party can mend and we move forward against the Republicans.  To vote for Hillary is like the Republicans still voting for Huckabee...   It means nothing..

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  24. Frustrated voter!

    Clinton clearly agreed at the beginning that Florida a Michigan would be not counted because of the violation of the DNC rules when she THOUGHT that she was going to win BUT now that she's behind, forget the rules she oh so badly wants them counted now – what a hypocrite, can’t the folks in Michigan and Florida see this and tell her to just get lost hypocrite? She’s using them for her own gain, she could care less if they were counted IF she was now ahead of Obama and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise this. What's even worse, she's going around taking credit for two primaries who don’t even count, furthermore, these two states weren’t even played out fairly because unlike SOME dishonest candidate, Obama actually followed the rules. Hillary as a funny way of twisting EVERYTHING possible to her favour. I'm surprised she didn't come out and say she was the first person on the moon – not Neil Armstrong. I'm so tired of Hillary and Bill now, both her and her husband i ONCE admired a great great deal to the point I was going to vote for her without a doubt! But now, i just want both of them to go away!

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
  25. Dal

    We know that Clinton's do not play by the official rules. It is nothing new that Billary would bring this up when she is behind and losing. She did not care about it before when she was considered a front runner.
    If Hillary becomes a President or even if she is the VP, Bill will be interfering in the running of the country.
    Can we really trust this family at all is the question.
    Bush--Clinton--Bush-–Clinton, Presidency will become an autocracy and not a democracy at all.

    April 24, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm |
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