April 24th, 2008
12:16 PM ET
6 years ago

The popular vote debate

If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote.
If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote.

(CNN) - Sen. Hillary Clinton is arguing that she is ahead of rival Sen. Barack Obama when it comes to the popular vote.

"I'm very proud that as of today, I have received more votes by the people who have voted than anyone else," Clinton said Wednesday, one day after her decisive win in Pennsylvania.

Not so fast, says Obama's campaign. Clinton's count includes her wins in Michigan and Florida, but the Democratic presidential candidates agreed not to campaign in those states because they violated party rules by scheduling their contests too early.

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soundoff (627 Responses)
  1. Jacqueline Samms

    What??

    April 24, 2008 01:07 pm at 1:07 pm |
  2. Johnny Boy

    Too bad the HILLBOTS do not understand that your candiate CANNOT add. That is a basic skill that a POTUS needs, and she does not have it. I am for Obama or NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, by the way, I WILL CUT OFF MY NOSE TO SPITE THE HILLBOTS. freaks!!!!!!!!!

    April 24, 2008 01:07 pm at 1:07 pm |
  3. Kate R

    Ack! This old argument again? I'm from Michigan and it was in no way a fair primary here. There isn't any money to do re-votes, so she needs to get over herself and drop the charade. As someone who was happy to have her running at the start of the campaign, I decided mid-January that she is nothing but an opportunistic liar who can't see past her own megalomania to keep McBush from creeping in.

    April 24, 2008 01:07 pm at 1:07 pm |
  4. Audrey in SF

    Besides that, she is ahead for probably the first time in the race, and not one person expects her "lead" – even with the unfair votes – to hold. And is she even counting caucus states?

    April 24, 2008 01:07 pm at 1:07 pm |
  5. 1+1 = Duh Huh

    Ahead in the popular vote if you count Florida and Michigan since you were the only one on the ballot and the only one who cant abide by the rules which you agreed to in the begining. Hillary you must be going by some of that new ArkCanSause math. Quit trying to impress everyone with your bull and smoke show and run a legit campaign.

    Oh wait, you and hubby Bill can not do things legit, its just another pack of mistruths, misstatements, misspokes and lies.....

    April 24, 2008 01:07 pm at 1:07 pm |
  6. craig

    I find it interesting that Hillary Clinton's campaign can manipulate voter numbers with expert calculation but cannot manage her "checkbook" to pay off vendors and service providers from Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I find it interesting as well that Hillary's argument for her to be nominated rests not with her ability to make herself look better but instead to make Barack Obama look worse.

    Instead of creating ways to make herself more electable to the superdelegates, how about making herself more appealing to the rest of us??? Then we can see how well her calculators really work!!!!

    April 24, 2008 01:07 pm at 1:07 pm |
  7. Getting tired of this

    Umm...she is counting hundreds of thousands of votes from a state in which Obama's name was not even on the ballot. She is not counting a single caucus state.

    The first thing I did after reading this is go to the Obama site and make my 5th contribution to his campaign.

    Let's get Clinton's strategy clear: "politics is dirty – just watch, I'll be dirty as hell and then accuse my opponent of 'not being able to take the heat'". McCain, by distancing himself from the far-right in his party who are race-baiting Obama and by publicly urging some of the 527 organizations not to run nasty personal attacks on Obama, has far more integrity right now than Clinton. The two most honorable people left running for president are Obama and McCain. That's pathetic.

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  8. Annetta

    What a candadate we have in Clinton. The message she is giving is that in order to you try and bend rules to your favor. Count what is good for you, and ignore rules that everyone (including you!) agrees on, but then change them if you don't like the results. Is this worthy of a president?What happened to all votes matter? What about Nevada, Texas and Maine? Since they do not record popular votes, should we change the rules to say that now this thing should be decided based on the popular vote only? Should we spend millions of dollars on contests that do not matter? Should any candidate be able to say what they think should or should not count? This is ridiculous. All I have heard from Obama is to abide by the process agreed upon by everyone. Richardson is right. Clinton feels entitled to win even if it means spinning the math to try and convince superdelagates you have won. If the super delegates go for this corruption, I like many others who believe in voting will stay away from politics once again. My response will be to send more money to Obama, the one who has integrity. Shame on you Hilary, your victory is hollow if you have to lower your standards in order to win.

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  9. steve dumford, Scotts valley ca.

    Obamas' name was originally on the ballot in Michigan but he had it taken off. His name was on the ballot in Florida and he even ran a campaign ad.....something Clinton didn't do. The Obama campaign nixed the idea of a revote in Michigan. If they had agreed it would have happened. I always thought the goal of the primaries was to elect the candidate who could win the Presidency. Clinton can carry the moderate voters needed to win this election. Obama, with his Rev' Wright , "bitter" comments and William Ayers connection can't win these voters. Democrats need to nominate a winner instead of a rock star.

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  10. female grad student, NYC

    either way, the voting with MI and FL has to be settled, and once it is it will be to Clinton's advantage. I think that is the overall point we can take from all this, Dean said the delegates would be seated at the convention.

    It was Obama's own fault that he took his name off the MI ballot, now the votes there can't count and voters in MI SHOULD feel slighted by that and the fact that his campaign wouldn't cooperate to find a fair solution for MI votes to count. Clinton made the smart move by keeping her name on the ballot, Obama just plays sloppy politics and it's finally catching up with him. Maybe some experience would do him good.

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  11. Alonzo Demetrius

    You Michigan guys, doesn't your state laws allow for write-in votes? You COULD HAVE voted for Obama, but aren't you glad now that you didn't?????

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  12. Deb

    The Clinton's think they can change the rules however they'd like. PATHETIC!

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  13. Donald, Buxton Maine

    actually you could have voted uncommitted. So its your own fault.

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  14. cc, Chicago

    Why does everyone keep calling a race where Barack in percentage terms has a double digit percent increase in delegates close? Especially when you consider that the delegates are proportionally allocated. Hillary only gained 12 delegates with her PA win. How can her deficit of over 100 delegates with only a couple hundred left to be delegated considered close? Democrats were upset about Al Gore losing the electoral college but winning the popular vote by 500,000 votes as being unfair. Here you have HRC behind (when counting ALL sanctioned states) by close to 1 million votes, significantly behind in delegates, and significantly behind in states won. Her getting the nomination would be equivalent to Al Gore winning the popular vote AND the electoral college vote and then having the Supreme Court intervene saying they know better than the voters and putting George Bush in office. If the democratic party chooses to go that route, they will lose all credibility as a party. And yes, I understand it's the way the system is set up, but when you have a really stupid system and a choice not to follow it, rational thought dictates that you don't follow it.

    April 24, 2008 01:08 pm at 1:08 pm |
  15. Eric

    I'm so tired of this woman and her constant lies. First she agreed that those two states should be stripped of their delegates, only to change her mind when she realizes she needed them. Witout competition in those two states, it was just a matter of name recognition and Obama was barely known at that time. And I am fed up with the media, repaeting her lies time and time agains, as if it would bear a slight resemblance to reality. Can some journalists confront her once in a while. And how a sane person can vote for such a blatant liar. You do have to be completely disillusioned with humankind to side with that kind of person.

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  16. ROB HUNTER

    I don't want any president that manipulates, or distorts information that we all know for ourselves is blatantly wrong. Imagine the information that she can distort if she gets into office that we don't have access to. This is really really disturbing that she would go to these lenghths to get what she wants.

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  17. gary

    I could accept counting Florida, full of old people as it is, given that everyone's name was on the ballot, but counting Michigan is comical. That said, no one can say she isn't a fighter.

    Is fighting always effective? It was totally and utterly ineffective when she fought for healthcare the first go round. Her problem is she is always fighting and not enough working with others. I am tired of fighting, and want some leadership in the white house.

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  18. LB

    ASTOUNDING!!!! THIS WOMAN IS SO OUTRAGEOUS!! I'VE GONE FROM LOST ALL RESPECT FOR HER TO CAN'T STAND HER!!!!!!!
    SHE IS BEHAVING AS IF WE ARE ALL IGNORANT...OH, THAT IS HOW OUR POLITICIANS ARE USED TO TREATING US.... OLD STYLE POLITICS... THINK WHAT I TELL YOU TO,.. BELIEVE WHAT I TELL YOU TO, WHEN I TELL YOU TO... 'THAT IS ALL'...

    MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA HELD 'TAINTED' ELECTIONS AND CANDIDATES AGREED WITH THE DNC RULING THAT IF THEY HELD THEIR ELETIONS IN VIOLATIONS OF THE RULES... THEY WOULD NOT BE COUNTED....
    MANY CAUCUS STATES... FOLLOWING THE RULES... CAST THEIR VOTES AND AS THE EQUAL DENOMINATOR WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE DELEGATES.. THEY DID NOT COUNT POPULAR VOTE... IF YOU CAN'T INCLUDE A POPULAR VOTE FOR THEM.... YOUR POPULAR VOTE TOTALS ARE ACTUALLY COMPLETELY INVALID.
    I LIKE CAUCUSING... I WITNESS THE RESULTS FIRST HAND.. THERE ARE WITNESS TO TO THE TOTALS WHICH MAKES IT EASIER TO VERIFYAND HARDER TO CHEAT! CLINTON AND THE MEDIA ARE INSANE!!!! AND IRRESPONSIBLE FOR OFFERING SO MANY DIVISIVE AND FAULTY ARGUMENTS TO TRY TO WIN A RACE SHE CAN'T WIN!!!

    THANK GOD FOR SENATOR OBAMA AND FOR THE FACT THAT HE IS WILLING TO GO THROUGH THIS FIGHT FOR LEADERSHIP OF OUR COUNTRY. I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN CHANGE THE STATUS QUO WITH OUR GOVERNMENT 'AND' WITH THE MEDIA... IT MAY BE A TOUGH FIGHT.... IT MAY TAKE TIME... BUT THE OPPORTUNITY IS HERE FOR US NOW.

    CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!
    OBAMA '08

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  19. GloriafromPA

    Yes, and she also won Texas, if you ignore the fact that this is a delegate race, like her campaign has, since she fell behind in the delegate count. Because of Billary, our party is dying the death of a thousand cuts. She is a selfish and mean-spirited person who will lose anly if she can take everyone down with her. She wants to be able to say, "I told you Barack wasn't electable", after feeding the Repugs with all the ammo they will need to defeat him, so she can run 4 years from now. Her character/ethics is so fatally flawed – it's scary that she coud have one this nomination.

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  20. Shame on the USA

    Hillary Clinton is doing a brilliant job of sewing salt into the earth before Barack Obama, in the best interests of the Republicans, corporations...

    True Christianity is good and dead in this nation. What ever happened to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?" What most of you actually believe is "Do onto others before they have a chance to do it onto you first."

    I am so disappointed in America – in the ones who merely want to be entertained, and not informed. I am ashamed of our mainstream media and its so called "journalists" today. You are merely corporate shills looking out for your own best interests: you don't care about facts. You promote opinions in order to sell books. It's Americans fault that they want to believe what's easiest to believe. Repeat something enough times and they think it is true. And Hillary Clinton knows it very well.

    Our children deserve something better than this

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  21. Felly

    This woman is sick and turns me off. She is very polarizing. How desperate can she be. No more Clinton dynasty, nada.

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  22. jt

    She is correct!!

    But if you excludes millions of voters from Florida and Michigan then...

    Hillary is the ligitimate front runner!!!

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  23. Jeff

    She's lost her mind! Her candidacy has turned into a pathetic attempt to remain in the spotlight. This is basically her campaigns thinking:

    1) Let's count a state where nobody campaigned because it doesn't count (Florida).

    2) Let's count a state where my opponents were not even on the ballot and people were thus forced to vote for me (Michigan).

    3) Let's not count the caucus states that Obama won because that would be bad for us.

    4) Let's ignore the fact that we're getting our butts kicked and have no chance to overcome this deficit.

    Next we'll be hearing, "Well, if you don't include the states that Barack Obama has won, then I'd have the most popular votes and delegates."

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  24. Justin (ny)

    So, if we conveniently count the elections of 2 states (1 where Obama wasn't even ON the ballot) that clinton agreed (by SIGNING HER NAME) NOT to count, and also conveniently don't include caucusses(sp?) of multiple states that Obama won, Clinton has a lead of, oh say, 100,000 votes. Y'know what Hil-Rod? If thats how you want to count it, then count it – because by the time North Carolina and Indiana are over, Obama will have the lead in the popular vote using your method too!

    I don't understand how/why Clinton supporters view Obama so negatively when their candidate constantly resorts to republican Rovian tactics and fuzzy math.

    April 24, 2008 01:09 pm at 1:09 pm |
  25. brian

    insulting to say the least.

    very dissapointed in her

    April 24, 2008 01:10 pm at 1:10 pm |
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