Comments on: Final returns in Pennsylvania: did Clinton nab a double-digit win?

By: frank

frank — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:40:55 +0000

the law said that mich.and florida will not count so tell me how can anyone change that ? thats the kind of issues that shows the clintons have no scrupples and will do anything to win.how can you trust the goverment if they change the rules just for personal gain? what has this country become? ask yourselves.......

By: Walt

Walt — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:40:49 +0000

Every democratic candidate with the exception of Hillary Clinton pulled their names from the MI ballot to show support for the rules set by the DNC. The Clintons have no rules.

By: Chris in SC

Chris in SC — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:33:08 +0000

Again with the MI nonsense? This isn't even relevant to a discussion about the margin in PA. Plus, Clinton supporters need to embrace the truth on this: the Democratic Party declared the Michigan Primary invalid, and Senator Clinton herself explicitly declared that the election there would not count. I'll also add that I personally know a number of Obama supporters who did not vote in the MI election precisely because of the unquestioned status of that primary. Enough of the pretzel logic.

By: Alex (from OH)

Alex (from OH) — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:32:17 +0000

I'm sick of the spin of the Clinton campaign. This is getting ridiculous, how can anyone buy into what they say? Any logical person will figure out they are twisting anything they can b/c they have to. I am amazed that people can't see through this.

As for a double-digit lead. There is no traditional way to do this if you are calculating a margin in percentage you first must subtract the votes and divide by the total number of votes. This yields 9.29% end of discussion, it was not a double digit win and I know how to do math I am in college to be an electrical engineer.

Just stop Hillary please your desparation is obvious, please step aside while you can and save your reputation. This presidency is not owed to you so get over yourself.

By: Kevin, Austin

Kevin, Austin — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:24:25 +0000

Obama supporters protested, pointing out that the winning margin was below 9.5 percent – which, as any fifth-grader will tell you, rounds down to 9, not up to 10. Clinton supporters pointed out that if you rounded each candidate's total votes — not the margin of victory itself — those whole numbers gave you the critical extra digit.

This is hillarious!

Somebody needs to point out that gas is up 200% (perhaps it's 199.471% but I'm rounding up for dramatic effect)

Somebody needs to point out that incomes are down 5%(again I'm round up for dramatic effect.)

I mean, I get it, this is politics, and perception is important.

But, come on... can't one of them stand up and make a joke out this... bring some levity to the situation.

I guarantee the first of the two to do that will win lots of hearts – and votes.

By: Dale Wise

Dale Wise — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:21:43 +0000

Okay, so the bottom line is that Clinton decreased Obama's delegate lead by 10, which was not enough to have any substantial impact on the nomination race. If anything, she is even worse shape since PA was her last chance to gain an appreciable number of delegates. It didn't happen – she can't catch up – she lost. Leave already.

By: J

Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:18:31 +0000

"But calculated another, more traditional way: she captured 54.6435 percent of the vote — which rounds up to 55 — to his 45.3564, which rounds down to 45, for a difference of 10 points."

This is simply WRONG. There's no correct way 54.6 – 45.4 can be rounded to 10. We are talking about math here, it's not a matter of opinion.

By: jimmy vekmen

jimmy vekmen — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:18:09 +0000

So many people do not like Pelosi whose congressional record is so dismal it's no wonder she is so unpopular.
It will just show how little influence she has on the nomination process.. there have been no delegates, even less so with super delegates who even hinted any support for her or her ideas.

Conclusion: just shut up Ms Pelosi. you're out of touch.

By: Dan , TX

Dan , TX — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:17:04 +0000

So, the PA election was exactly what was expected.

It is a little surprising she only netted 10 delegates. That is not enough.

I support Barack Obama.

By: Lillian Waddy

Lillian Waddy — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:16:39 +0000

Hillary will do the country and the democratic party well by accepting what she has accomplished so far and calling it a day. By smaring Obama over and over again does not make her look good. Take the legacy she has earned as first lady and senator and use her strengths to help the country and party, not destroy it.

By: Gideon, Chicago, IL

Gideon, Chicago, IL — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:16:08 +0000

This is ridiculous. You might round off the final number, but you never round off numbers that are still being used in calculating a difference. Clinton is living in a world where NONE of the normal rules apply.

By: Anon

Anon — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:16:06 +0000

Brian (in PA) said:

"Obama pulled his name from MI ballots. That was his choice. He did it to garner favor with IA, NH and SC party types. Is that the politics of change?"
________________________________________________________

You seem to forget that it wasn't just Clinton and Obama running at the time so by your logic, Edwards and Richardson are also questionable right?

People keep making this argument that it was Obama's choice to remove himself from the ballot in Michigan when in fact, it was agreed upon by all candidates involved but I'll give you one guess who went back on her word and didn't.

By: Erica (in NC)

Erica (in NC) — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:15:25 +0000

Obama was playing by the rules of the DNC. Clinton plays by whatever rules suit her at the time and will re-interpret those rules differently to benefit herself.

By: David

David — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:14:45 +0000

Hillary Clinton has very strong experience on her resume, she got 8 years of first lady, 8 years of senator, Wow,16-year ! It is a lots, during this 16 years what she has achieved in Medicare ? Zero !

The poor people were kicked out from the hospital before her husband took the office, she has 16-year timeframe and chance to make it right, well, 16-year later, we still have poor people got kicked out from the hospital. She took the money from lobbyist, put the Medicare reform in the trash can.

She got lots of supporters from her husband administration, they got the common goals-they 'all' want to return to white house. Other supporters are just her puppets, how many people were standing beside her during her scandals, and what she had done to those people – put them under the bus ! That is her !

By: Sean

Sean — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:13:47 +0000

Brian: Where in this article does it mention Michigan? Why do you want to try and mix issues to TRY and prove your point?

By: Theresa

Theresa — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:13:00 +0000

I this really an amazing victory? 10 whole extra delegates? That isn't really closing the gap is it?

Even if you want to call a 10% win for Hillary, she didn't gain much.

The $10 million raised only got her out of the red! Still looks like she is "fighting" a losing battle.

By: Barbara in NC

Barbara in NC — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:12:21 +0000

Why didn't we hear this much about Obama's wins in MANY states of 20%, 25%, or more?

Is CNN working for Hillary? If so, demand cash in advance for your services.

Geeeeezzzzz

By: Azar

Azar — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:12:10 +0000

Following is the result per Pennsylvania Department of State website:

99.99% reporting

Clinton: 1,245,911 – 54.553%
Obama: 1,037,953 – 45.447%
Total: 2,283,864 – 100.00 %
Difference: 207,958 – 9.105%

% of total vote: 207,958 / 2,283,864 = 9.105% or 9.0 % (rounded).

Delegates: 9 or 10 gain for Clinton.

By: David Berg

David Berg — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:12:03 +0000

The Final Answers is.... 9.2871 or 9%

The issue here is about skewing the facts to make a political point.

You cannot round first then do your math. If percent difference was 9.6% you could round to 10 if you weren't reporting decimals.

If you are reporting a "double digit win" then any rounding would be wrong. You have to look at the RAW number. Is it 10.0 or higher? If not it is not double digit win. It is a single digit win!

Best you can say is "nearly double digit win".

Where have all the staticians gone?

By: Black Republican, New York, New York

Black Republican, New York, New York — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:11:30 +0000

Geesh! Is there nothing else to report on? Must be a slow day to keep this alive.

Look, two months ago, Hillary was leading in all polls by over 20 points. Two days before election, she led by between 5 and 6 points. On election day, she won by 10 points.

My point is: this was hers to lose and she did not lose.

Obama was not expected to win, but to come as close as he possibly could and he did himself and his backers proud, for a guy who was not known in PA six weeks ago, for a guy with a name that rhymes with OSAMA, for a guy who was villified by Team Clinton, for a guy who was roasted and toasted by the media over remarks by Jeremiah Wright and for telling the truth about 'bitter' small town Americans.

Hillary got 1.2 million to Obama's 1 million, and people can't see the great strides in Obama's climb from the valley of death to near top of the mountain. His story has more to be more interesting given how far behind he came from, but where is the media spin on this?

By: Belle

Belle — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:11:08 +0000

PS
For you "rule" mongers....not seating DELEGATES is extremely different than counting POPULAR VOTES. Clinton is ahead in the Popular vote.

By: DAVID

DAVID — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:08:46 +0000

THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS COVERED UP BY MEDIA SUPPORTING A CANDIDATE.OBVIOUSLY THESE MEDIA GROUPS WILL GIVE CLINTON THE EDGE WHEN THEY GOT A LINK IN THERE BLOGS AND WEB SITES FOR US TO MAKE DONATIONS TO CLINTON.THIS INCLUDES YOU CNN

By: Brandy (Dallas)

Brandy (Dallas) — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:08:46 +0000

Man her math is very strange.

First she's counting votes that don't count and now shes counting votes that weren't even made. 9.3 is more like 9 than 10. That is basic 5th grade math.

But hey, people believe what they want to believe to justify how they felt anyway. If you were going to vote for Hillary, it didn't matter. Same thing for Obama.

Now if you had no clue, stats show that Obama has the edge

By: Brian (in PA)

Brian (in PA) — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:06:34 +0000

Obama pulled his name from MI ballots. That was his choice. He did it to garner favor with IA, NH and SC party types. Is that the politics of change?

By: Phil From VA

Phil From VA — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:05:42 +0000

It is a double digit delegate lead but the big question is how can a 10 delegate gain be seen as a big win for Clinton????

By: The Best Has Won!!

The Best Has Won!! — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:04:36 +0000

Those Obama supporters are alway whinning. That's the reason why more people are noticing how hateful they are and how much they whine. I read ALL the blogs now, my God they are really bad. They bicker like little children. If, If, If , Il'll do this, this, this. Heaven's what next. Case in point, she won! Next race.

By: Brian (in PA)

Brian (in PA) — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:04:11 +0000

Finally someone gets it. Nine, ten percent who cares. Clinton got more delegates from PA-what that means, time will tell. The race will be over when all the primaries have concluded, no matter what the media pundits, Nancy Pelosi or the Obama campaign says. A more important question is why the DNC and the Obama campaign want to deny a voice to party members in MI and FL. If the nomination is given without an accurate accounting of FL and MI, I'll sit out November polls. Originally I planned to support whomever was nominated-but Obama's MI politicos' scuttling of a resolution changed my intentions.

By: Joshua College Station Texas

Joshua College Station Texas — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:04:03 +0000

This just goes to show that some people rely on facts, while others rely on spin. Go Spinillary go! I hope you spin so fast your big Botoxed head pops off.

By: VINCENT NWOSU

VINCENT NWOSU — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:03:24 +0000

Double digit or single digit is absolutely immaterial in this primary election. For the first time in a long while Americans have shown near unprecedented interest in their general election, thanks to the emergence of Barak Obama who has broughjt into the campaign what the Americans have long been looking forward to: A change in the ways things are done in Washington, unity as a people and in purpose. For the fact that over 70% of Americans are ready for the first time to have a black president is a testimony of what Americans of all colour and creed see in him and if he emerges as the Democratic candidate will win the presidency by more than 70% percent. Democrats of all demographics will unit behind him. He represents a movement. A movement for change.

By: Sorensen

Sorensen — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:01:43 +0000

9.2871 does not round up to 10!
Besides, it does not really matter. She has lost .
Unless the socalled superdelegates want to commit suicide.
And they would never have the guts to do that.

By: Shelby

Shelby — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:01:39 +0000

To answer your question, NO she didn't! She won by 9.2 and I learned in grade school that you're supposed to round down if its less than .5. So again to answer your question, no she didn't. However, I'm not going to take anything away from her, a win is a win. Take your 15 delegates enjoy them while you can because you'll be right back where you started in two weeks. Obama 08'

By: shaun

shaun — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:01:09 +0000

who cares..barack will make that back up with his nc win..I can't wait until hillary gets out.

By: Jeff, Hampshire, IL

Jeff, Hampshire, IL — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:58:35 +0000

Look, unfortunately she won regardless of the decimals. Bottom line is bottom line. Come on, let's move on, can we please? How about reporting on something more substancial?

By: Wayne, Greenville TX

Wayne, Greenville TX — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:57:53 +0000

To borrow a phrase from Al Gore and the 2000 Debates, it looks like teh Clinton supporters are using "fuzzy math" to get to that 10-point lead. 9.3 rounds down to 9 – kids in grade school know that.

By: Bryan

Bryan — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:57:20 +0000

As a math teacher, I am shocked that our elected officials are confused on this matter. ROUNDING SHOULD ONLY BE DONE WHEN THE FINAL ANSWER IS REACHED! Can we please tone down the rhetoric and put together an unstoppable ticket: OBAMA-CLINTON or CLINTON-OBAMA. Who do you want appointing the next batch of Justices, Dems or Repubs? You can spin all you want, but not voting for your first choice Democrat is a net vote for a third bush term. Lets go People!

By: Stupid Americans

Stupid Americans — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:56:21 +0000

Hillary Clinton is a Biggest Liar.

By: Reid

Reid — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:53:49 +0000

HILLARY NO LONGER CARES ABOUT DELEGATES! They have already lost the delegate election so they are attempting to revise the rules, AGAIN, and unilaterally add in Michigan and Florida AND not count the caucuses. Completely delusional campaign.

By: Larry

Larry — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:53:48 +0000

The argument over the rounding would surely be relentlessly spinned if it was Obama who had the 9.2 percent victory and had placed 10 percent as the critical number.

Clinton and her campaign would be saying, he can't even win his home state. He didn't get the 10 percent. The win is meaningless. He was up nearly 30 points at one time, and only carried the state by less than 10 points. This proves I am the stronger candidate, my projectory continues to go up as his continues to fall. I am the stronger candidate for the nomination to beat McCain. Sounds like Hillary, doesn't it?

Now I ask you, shouldn't that be the way Obama spin this? And have the media question Hillary as to why she lost so much of a lead of nearly 30 points? Obama should use some of Clinton's tactics. And let the press help him out. Larry

By: Lets Get Ready for Change!

Lets Get Ready for Change! — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:51:35 +0000

Who cares at this point? Come on media, lets stay focused. Obama lost & Hillary won. Congrats to Hillary and keep moving forward Obama!

By: IN voter

IN voter — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:51:17 +0000

Was her victory in Pennsylvania a double-digit win? No

She picked up 10 pledged delegates. That's it.

Now lets get on with it and end this thing on May 6th.

By: errrr

errrr — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:51:01 +0000

It seems that "the best political team" for Obama in CNN is once again trying their best to do whatever to help Obama. In this time, why does CNN team forget the "issues" and focus on the "distractions"? Maybe, for them, everything against Obama is a "distraction", and anything good for Obama is an "issue".

By: Eli

Eli — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:49:39 +0000

I think you said it all and best in the second paragraph when you said, calculated another way, more traditional way, she got the double digit. Once again this is bias in the media, if it is not done the one way why bring it up. I think if you look back at all the others it is always done the TRADITIONAL WAY. MOVE ON.

By: Scott

Scott — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:49:28 +0000

My god.. no one did this when Obama won his states.. stupid.

By: Kel from Auburn, AL

Kel from Auburn, AL — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:48:44 +0000

This is funny. Clinton's campaign is so deperate to pad the numbers that they're arguing over a decimal point. If she would have won be 20 percent like everyone was saying a few weeks ago, then there wouldn't be any debate.

Clinton can't close the deal. She has the political clout and has gotten nowhere with it because freshman senator Obama has been able to inspire people where she just bores them, scares them into voting for her, or gets their votes by default because she's not black.

Obama 08.

By: Chris Chance

Chris Chance — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:48:01 +0000

so now its clinton's people that want to "disenfranchise" people? Just to get a double digit win, the fact of the matter is with every vote counted in pensylvania she won by 9% end of story, not 10%.... and whats funny is didnt i recall some reps saying that if she didnt see a "big double digit win" that she should drop out... this is almost as bad as her trying to count MI and FL in the Popular vote count just to say shes higher... whats funny though is if she wants to count everyone really and the census's obama is still winning... whats even funnier is that with MI and FL after the upcoming May 2nd vote, i can almost gaurantee that tiny 100k vote lead she says she has won't even exist... she really needs to just be quite and drop out as shes just damaging the democratic party. And this is coming from a person in florida that would have voted for Obama, but the votes werent supposed to count. You want to know why she was so great in florida... because the well educated college grads knw that the votes didnt count and STAYED HOME. and those are the ones that vote for obama... The people that didnt realize the votes didnt matter and Florida had been disqualified went out and voted for hilary... ya thats fair, and Obama not on the ballet at all in MI... ya thats fair., that's like championing yourself after running on an empty ballet claiming everyone loves you. She has lied more than anyone i've ever seen in a campaign, and shes been cout 3 times already in very large lies just to trick people into voting for her IM SICK OF IT!

By: Greg

Greg — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:47:40 +0000

Yet Clinton faces a triple digit deficit in delegates, so...

By: Daniel

Daniel — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:47:28 +0000

Regardless of my political standing, as a computer scientist I am appalled at the "more traditional" way of calculating the difference. That's not a difference – a difference is defined as the delta between two numbers, which is clearly 9.2871%.

Forget rounding – why don't we just say that she won by the exact difference?

By: Justin, Chicago

Justin, Chicago — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:47:20 +0000

Fuzzy math!

By: Larry

Larry — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:46:32 +0000

The argument over the rounding would surely be relentlessly spinned if it was Obama who had the 9.2 percent victory and had placed 10 percent as the critical number.

Now I ask you, shouldn't that be the way Obama spin this? And have the media question Hillary as to why she lost so much of a lead of nearly 20 points? Obama should use some of Clinton's tactics. And let the press help him out. Larry

By: vp

vp — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:45:04 +0000

Clinton Supporters are illiterate and thats why they claim its a 10 point margin.

Will they ever accept rounding the numbers if the result would be 8.

for example say clinton 54.3435 and Obama 45.6564. if we round both these numbers the difference is just 8 points.

So the tight thing to do is no rounding at all.