WASHINGTON (CNN) - Bleary-eyed Democrats failed to reach consensus early Saturday morning on a plan to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations - setting up a potentially explosive hearing later in the day between supporters of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama on how to address this politically sensitive situation.
Members of the Democratic National Committee's Rules and Bylaws panel convened for more than five hours behind closed doors Friday evening. The meeting ended at 1:30 a.m. ET Saturday - eight hours before the committee is scheduled to hold a public hearing on the matter.
Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton disagree over how best to address the situation of Michigan and Florida, which were penalized for holding their primaries early. The DNC sanctioned Michigan and Florida by excluding them from representation when the party nominates a candidate at the August convention.
"It was a full discussion," said Harold Ickes, a DNC Rules member from the District of Columbia who supports Clinton. "I think there was some agreement on some issues and still some disagreements on others."
The Democratic presidential hopefuls have both said they want the Florida and Michigan delegates to attend the convention, but Clinton's campaign is calling for the results of the primaries to be honored and the delegates awarded based on the results. This approach would help her chip away at Obama's lead in pledged delegates because handily won both states and would be awarded a greater share of the delegates.
Obama's campaign disagrees, saying that this is not reasonable because he followed the rules, took his name off of the Michigan ballot, and did not campaign in either state.
"Right now what we have to do is to figure our way through all of this and I believe we will," said Allan Katz, a DNC Rules member from Florida who supports Obama. "And I believe we will come up with something tomorrow. There will probably be a little sort of tussling but we are Democrats." Right now, with no Michigan or Florida delegates included, Obama leads Clinton by 202 delegates. He needs 42 more to clinch the nomination.
A potential compromise plan would be to have each state be penalized 50 percent of its delegate representation, but allow every delegate to attend the convention with a half vote.
The Rules committee will address two main issues at its hearing Saturday morning: how many delegates each state is allowed and how those delegates will be allocated between the two candidates.
"How do you recognize the people who didn't vote and how do you recognize the people that did vote and how do we at the same time maintain the integrity of the process," said Martha Fuller Clark, a DNC Rules member from New Hampshire and Obama supporter. "And there are no easy answers."
James Roosevelt, Jr., the DNC Rules committee co-chair from Massachusetts, described the meeting as "spirited because people on this committee have a strong feeling about the rules and about the importance of them." But he added, "It was not unpleasant or heated."
Roosevelt also predicted that a resolution will be reached, but said there would be dissenting votes.
"I can't predict that it will be unanimous," he said. "I do think that it will be unifying for the party."
From CNN Politics
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If there was anything the Bush / McCain supporters and its policy could dream for to continue this route of misguided US government. This is it. This messed up MI FL fiasco. Clinton is deserving the blame for inciting it. State government is to blame for creating it.
Where is the announcement of hillary's new superdelegate Eileen Macoll
The DNC and all the people saying they're democrate shoudl really be carefull. Many of Obama sup. always voted for the party in all kind of issues. A big frustation for them mean the end of hope for that party.
all vote's should counted as alway's
Re-VOTE!! Hillary would not win in Michigan and SHE knows it!!!!!!!!!!!
The behaviour of Senator Clinton reminds me of my divorce since despite my way to follow the rules (laws) she continued to blackmail my lawyer and me. This experience has opened my eyes and disillusioned me for the rest of my life. Do women not realize when it`s over and when to stop the "war"? Besides that, in real life no man would chose a women who treated him the way Senator Clinton did (and is still doing) with Senator Obama would accept her as future partner ( VP spot) This is only possible in politics. I feel however, reading hundreds of comments, that many people feel the way I do.
WHo does she think she is with previledge to change the DMC rules`?
Where the hell is Al Sharpton? Hillary is trying to steal the nominee by not giving Obama one vote. I think not. NOT THIS TIME!!!
A full delegation ain't happening.
They're lucky they get to show up at all!
Give Clinton a 55/45 win, if it will shut her trap.
Make no difference anymore.
This game is over
DrFilll
That's right Martha. How do you recognize the people who didn't vote because they believed their vote would not count? What does Mrs. Clinton have to say about that. I suppose she would say that the only votes that matter or the votes that are for her. Why else would she not want to give Mr. Obama the "uncommitted" votes or any delegates? How can she say she wants everybody to have a voice.
WE LOVE YOU OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!
OBAMA '08 & '12
Si Se PuEdE jEs We CaN sI sE pUeDe JeS wE cAN!!!!!!!!!!
Why should the reesults be "honoured" when both Michigan and Florida broke the rules? The arguments Hillary is putting forward are incredibly dishonest. It's quite obvious she's only so deeply involved with their "plight" because she's behind on all counts.
If the DNC caves in to her the Dems will certainly lose the GE. Because that will be proof they are just as prone to lobby pressure as the Republicans. Everybody has heard Clinton's arguments. Everybody has heard her comments on working-whites supporting her. She's letting Ferramo off the leash and complains of anybody slightly connected to Obama putting their foot in the mouth. She0s divise, she's inciting people not too vote (or at least not denouncing at all those who say they won't vote if the choice is Obama). She's divisive period.
If she succeeds in stealing the nomination too many people will turn away in disgust.
Dont break the rules you are teaching our children all of you.
Obama will win this "fight" and Billary will not be satisfied until she brings down the ENTIRE Democrat Party.
Is she really a Republican operative ... kinds like Matt Daman's charactor in "The Departed" is really a Mob plant in the police department. I think she might be ...
Well I gotta tell ya, without helping them get seated, Obama shoots hismself in the foot. He won't win them in the general election....he won't win the general election anyway.
This is the party that gives us Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Howard Dean. Is it any wonder that the Democratic controlled congress has an approval rating that is 50% lower than Bush's? The lowest rating for any congress in history.
And these guys want us to vote for their "leader?" Please.
McCain '08.
The reason everyone is so mad about Fr Flager's comments is becasue HE IS CORRECT! That is EXACTLY why Billary cryed ... and why she continues this idiotic fight!
What the Clintons want is not over the top. OK. You can count the Florida primary the way the results were cast, but the big problem is Michigan. How can Hillary Clinton supporters justify disenfranchising all of the voters in Michigan that did not vote for her. The compromise is that all of the uncommitted voters should be awarded to Obama.
According to Clinton math, she is ahead in the popular vote if you do not give him credit for a single voter in Michigan nor count any votes from the caucus states. If the object is to count all votes, then there should not be a problem with Obama getting the uncommitted votes from Michigan otherwise, no deal.
Rules are meant to be obeyed. The DNC has to enforce the rules and stick to it. There should be no compromise on this matter because any form of compromise will send the wrong signal to other States who obeyed the rules. I think democracy and principle goes together. Floria and Michigan delegates are not to be seated in the convention-Simple!
I am hoping for the best. That everyone will do the right thing. Nobody is above the law nor the rules.. In this type of serious competition. You cannot change the rules in the middle of the game. Nor move the goal post to someone elses advantage even if they are losing are winning. Fair is fair. I would like to see Florida and Michigan seated but it must be done fairly amongst both candidates. Be awarded accordingly to who follow the competition according to the rules.
Don't forget our future voters are watching. You mess up the trust and you lose their trust in America.
A lot of people were not able to vote because they were told they could vote because of the date being moved. Also some people ask could they write in the vote and was told no. Some voters requested a day off from work only to be turned away. Some voters got paid for the requested day off from work and some didn't. It would not be fair to meet all of Clinton's request. After all she has said a lot of things about Florida and Michigan that it would not count anyway.
DNC it's your call but be fair. I put my 2 cents in. Just be fair.
I'm not sure the Fla./Mich. decision even matters, except that unless their votes are counted, they may (understandably) withhold them in November. But the superdelegates must realize that this is a virtual tie and that Sen. Clinton is far more qualified than Sen. Obama (if a woman candidate had no more experience than he does, they would not even be considered for the job). Millions of Nov. votes are at risk if the superdelegates don't vote for her.
If they don't, Sen. Obama cannot heal the party, even if he "reaches out" to women, not after the disgraceful displays of hatred, sexism and disrespect his side has shown to Sen. Clinton and for that matter, President Bill Clinton.
The news shows may also try to turn around after the nomination and become generous to her after months of bias in Sen. Obama's favor, but they will be too late.
Even Sen. Clinton may not be able to do much to heal the divide, Her supporters are not "followers," as many of Sen. Obama's crowd may be. We voted for her, not with blind loyalty, but because we know that she is by far the most qualified candidate, and we agree with her on the issues. But if she is not the nominee, she may well not be able to influence our vote after that, no matter how hard she works for Obama, as she will.
Surely Sen. McCain's staff is thinking about what they can offer us.
can we all just get alone
the rules are the rules
end of story
Pelosi rejects superdelegates should exercise personal judgment, and together with Reid they want to stop the race in June – moving up the Dems convention to June by word of mounth. Obama will celebrate victory in his very own "Mission Accomplished 2"-rally on Tuesday. They are all trying to change the rules, the set-up of this election. The only rule they are not willing to follow is the higher rule of democracy itself: One voter, one vote!
This is an easy decision...sorry, you can't be seated due to not following the rules. Now Hillary, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth...I'm tired of her political grandstanding on this issue since she seemed fine with it back in the fall.
obama should reject his racial voters
Senator Clinton's argument that in order to uphold democracy is disingenuous. Democracy isn't simply about counting all the votes. Democracy comes with rules, those rules must be followed. The Democratic party in Florida and Michigan did not follow those rules. They are now suffering the consequences of their actions.
The only discussion that should be taking place is what is the price they should pay for their actions. Even though all the Presidential candidates agreed to strip all the delegates from both states last year, I believe that penalty is too harsh. Halving the number of delegates is the right thing to do.
Once that is done, the delegates should be free to commit to either candidate since neither state's election represents the likely vote.
If Michigan and Florida are allowed to escape any penalty for their actions, the party cannot enforce any rules in the future.
Since when did playing by the rules count for anything with the Clintons?
Right now, 30% of Americans support Obama, 25% support Clinton and the other 45% support McCain and others....
25% of Americans think 9/11 was a conspiracy by the bush admin...
I would bet anything over 90% of those people support Obama, there is no helping these people.
that means about 5 to 10% of Obama supports might be rational people that need to see the emptiness, lack of experience and division of Obama..........
Clinton or McCain
The gaal according to Clinton supporters is to count all votes. In Michigan, Obama's name was not on the ballot. His name was on the ballot in Florida. The Florida primary results should be counted. The fair thing to do in Michigan is to count the result, but all of the votes cast against Clinton, the uncommitted votes, should be awarded to Obama. Otherwise, ,you should count Florida and not Michigan.
Furthermore, the entire delegation should be seated but each delegate should be counted as a 1/2 delegate. Rules are rules and Florida and Michigan broke the rules. I agree with the way the Republicans penalized both delegations. Michigan and Florida should not be rewarded with full voting power. A penalty of half their normal votes should be their punished. This would discourage states in the future from breaking party rules.
THANK YOU FLORIDA, MICHIGAN POLITICAL LEADERS, AND HILLARY CLINTON FOR DESTROYING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. CLINTON PROVOKED THIS WHOLE MESS. SHE HAS LIED OVER AND OVER AND CHEATED HER WAY THROUGH. WELL GUESS WHAT IF THEY GIVE IT TO HER UNFAIRLY SHE TOO HAS LOST.
I AM SURE THAT ALONG WITH ALL THE SWIFTBOATING THAT IS BEING TAKEN PLACE THAT PEOPLE WITH THEIR OWN AGENDAS WILL OVERWHELMINGLY HAND THE ELECTION OVER TO MCCAIN.
THIS ELECTION SHOULD BE CALLED UPON WHAT IS FAIR.
The DNC should abide by its RULES!!!!!!
And not by changing them when one of the candidate is losing!!!!
It makes everything so confusing!
If it was for OBAMA, would they have gone through all this?
The Rules are the Rules!!!
They can count half of the delegates, that's all!!!
As Long As They Dont Give Her Everything And Give Him Nothing Their Decision Can Be Somewhat Fair. You Cant Break The Rules And Expect Not To Be Penalized!
Clinton ran a fundamentally clean campaign, if anything I'd say it was a little boring and old-fashioned. Clinton ran on the issues, and not until Texas did she go negative with the 3 A.M.-ad and even then on her issue of experience. It worked, more so I think because people wants her to fight back.
Obama's negative from day one, trashing Clinton's approval numbers, naming her everything from untrustworthy to hints she was dellusional, evil, killer and you name it. How successful is a campaign going so negative the opponents refuses to quit?
The more we learn of Obama, the more we dislike him. There is nothing left of the Obama matra of change, bridging the divide and hope. Divisive, Obama breaks the mole on devise.
Obama is a bully, so why should superdelegates reward such behavior and gamble the election when they have a fantastic change-candidate in Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Let's just seat the delegates and get on with this, we are going to need both states in the fall. Seat them like they voted, it is not going to make any difference to the outcome of the nomination. This half delegate idea is crazy, we don’t need half of their support in the fall we need them all. The party screwed it up, now lets make it right. Party of the people, all the people, not just the ones that agree with your candidate.
First order of business, let Pelosi and Reid agree who should forgo their vote as they broke the rules when they moved up the convention by word of mount to June. Let's see how they like that?
Follow the rules. There is no reason to have rules if you are not going to follow them. Clinton is behind and the only reason she is concerned , is because this is her last shot at the nomination. I truly don't believe she really cares about the disinfranchisement of the the votes from either MI, or Fl. Lets get this over with as soon as possible so that we can concentrate on the general election.
This is going to be good. After all the whining the democrats did in 2000 about counting all votes they are going to show their true colors and disenfranchise voters again and like they do every election but this time they can’t use the old play book blame it on a "Vast right-wing conspiracy". Go ahead make my day!
Clinton won't be happy until she destroys all hope for a Democrat in the White House.
Those who supports the idea that Sen. Obama should not be awarded any delegate from Michigan seem not to belong to either Democratic party or Indipendents, not even Republican. I wonder weather they are from this planet or if they think right thinking people can share their ideas
Bill and Hillary Clinton and their leg-breakers have set a trap
for the Rules and Bylaws Committee.
If the Clintons DO NOT get what they want, then they will be
able to APPEAL everything to the next level upwards, thereby
simply kicking the can down the road and keeping her failed
campaign alive for a couple more months.
Believe it, that's EXACTLY what they're planning on doing!
Our long national nightmare is NOT over, folks! Sorry...
Thanks Hillary for the trouble your causing. Obviously you're not concerned with the Dems. taking back the whitehouse, you're only concerned if YOU can get in. You can't see that you are not wanted, if you were, we wouldn't be going through all of this, you would have won the votes already needed, but you didn't . And still you and that idiot husband of yours want it soooo bad you're willing to divide the party. What scum !!
Shouldn't it be simple. Player A and Player B agreed to play a game called Game C with the rules of the game described to both A and B. Changing the rules in the middle of the game would be not only UNFAIR but HIGHLY UNETHICAL, dont you think so?
Be realistic.. you tolerate, benefit for 20 years of hatred, you cannot be elected as a president.
Superdelegates, do not make a wrong decision just for your own sake so that you can get black votes..
Sen. Clinton has got to be fooling herself if she thinks she's going to get the full count in FL/MI. Are you serious? I mean here's a woman who signed an agreement stating these states would be penalized if they violated the rules and that their votes would NOT count!!
NOW all of sudden she's reeking chaos over something she agreed to early on! It just proves how much of a hypocrite she truly is.
I mean the Clintons have behaved since day one like the RULES of the land do NOT apply to them, they carry on like they are above the law and rules set forth by the DNC Party. I find that very insulting and very disgraceful coming from a NY Senator who should NOT better and be HELD accountable for her destruction.
I mean how much more "pacifying" do we give this silly woman? I mean it's getting to the point Americans are getting sick and tired of the spin, spin, spin. Everyday it's another lame argument from either Bill or Hillary that just doesn't make any sense at all.
Let's END this foolishness and get on to the REAL issues facing the Democratic Party come November!
We've wasted enough time on cry-baby Clinton as it is. Let her cry her way back to New York, because we've had enough of the Clinton Soap Opera.
with the argument fowarded by her representatives,
hillary clinton simply proves the public perception that she will bend and twist any and every facts in order to win.
the whole campaign is beyond disgusting.
as a group, they should be kicked out of the democratic party, as they will fit better in the republican party.
I am really in the dark how people can stand behind Clinton when it seems obvious she will pull out ANY stop in her arsenal to get the nomination.
It no longer about fairness. Or due process. All of the Democrats agreed not to campaign in Florida and Michigan...and there was NO problem as long as Hillary "Entitlement" Clinton was in the lead....
But now that the people have spoken and Barack has the inside track to the nomination....everybody wants to seat the delegates.
I lose faith in the political process more and more...this was supposed to be a landmark decision...and if Hillary was ahead fair and square...she would have my vote and support hands down.
But she's dirty.
You guys can't be that blind.
They shouldn't be counted if you ask me. Again, they KNEW the consequences of moving and did ANYWAY even after they were told they'd be stripped. Yet the STILL did what they wanted to do. You can't reward people for breaking the rules. What kind of message would that send to the other 48 states that FOLLOWED the rules?
If they DO seat them, seat them at 50% and give them out proportionately or give them a 50/50 split between both candidates.
I honestly don't feel they should count though. Barack and every other democratic candidate EXCEPT for Clinton followed the rules and didn't campaign AND removed their name from the ballot. That was part of the agreement. Now they're looking to get penalized for it. Wow....
Sadly, there are MILLIONS who believe this is fair. Are these the type of morals that we're raising our children with? If so, we'll have FAR more to worry about than foreign terrorists in the long run
I think they should set a date in the near future for another primary for these to states and let the candidates go campaigning for those for and let them vote again or for the first time-vote. This is the only fair way – do it right--- the second time. Thanks.
IT IS TIME for the DNC to tell Hillary Clinton she has lost and to go away. If they allow the Clinton campaign to enjoy changing the rules in the middle of the game the Democratic Party will be history in my mind. Rules are rules. Rules are not just for the little guy no matter what her Hindendness wants to say. Hillary as anything ='s my vote for McCain.
Obama Is Going To Be The Next President Of The United States! Americans Have Voted And They Want Change! Change They Can Believe In! Out With The Old And In With The New!
the dnc is a joke. howard dean should step down, he created this big mess. other states voted early, and were not penalized. leave the sham of a democratic party hillary, and run independent. take your over 17 million votes with you, you will pick up independents,and some republicans. let dean and pelosi "unite" what is left of the democratic party.
Please excuse the typos
As we can now see who the parties are that will make the decisions it is stacked so Clinton will be able to rob this election from Obama. I hope that the DNC knows that this could well be the destruction of the Democratic party. If he robbed I like other Obama supporters will vote for Nader in the general election. Hopefully we can get our message out and Clinton will finish third.
he's da man
Why is the media repeating the Clinton line that she won Florida and Michigan? How can anyone win a race that was not valid to begin with, and one in which your oponent didn't even appear on the ballot? Let's stop aiding and abetting by repeating the stupid lie.
Hillary is someone we can not trust because her word, promise means nothing...She said she agreed to not campaigning in Florida or Michigan and now she wants both of those states counted. Please.............
Obama should have any delegate from Michigan because he refuses any compromises to revote there. Him and his campagn cheat the process all the way. If DNC want the fight to go to the convention then give the 40% uncomitted delegates count to obama.I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA THIS FALL AND BET ON IT.
What about those people who didn't go out to vote at all because they were told it would not count? I think the DNC is frightened of a backlash in MI and FL, but it seems to me that the only really fair thing to do is to follow the rules that were originally established and seat none of the delegates...
It was clear to me early on that Clinton would use this as a kind of last resort, why else would she keep her name on the ticket in MI?
He followed the rules? No, the rushed to take his name off the ballot because he knew he didn't have a shot in h e ll at winning Michigan and he wanted a "legal" manuver to keep that state from counting should this come down to what it has. I mean, it is what it is. He knows that 50% of the democrats don't want him and he is trying to "squeak" into the nomination. Which totally bewilders me because he's got to know that with 50% of democrats and 100% republicans against him, he's toast in the general election. It would be a total waste to put Obama up. he's NOT going to be president.
Hillary will not give up until she has snatched the nomination away from Barack Obama, gotten the commitment of the DNC to pay all her campaign debts, including her personal ones, and destroyed the Democratic party. Does anybody really doubt this?
I think the DNC should set a date in the near future for another primary to be held in these two states and let the candidates campaign for those votes, with both of there names on the ballots.
Then let the people vote again or for the first time. This is the only fair way -do it right–the second time. Thanks again.
I guess it shouldn't surprise me that Hillary is calling for Obama to get no votes in Michigan just because he did what anyone should have, taken their name off the ballot in a state that wasn't going to count. And now that she is losing she wants to change the rules, AFTER SHE AGREED TO THEM. We definitely do not need that in Washington.
Go Obama
count all florida votes and delegates.and michigan count the delegates only.
Democrats as a whole are proving unfit to lead by even giving this argument an opportunity to unfold. That is one thing I do love about Republicans. They can loose graciously (take a note Hillary) and unite behind the front runner. I'm sure a couple of months ago, no one could have told Giulani that he would not be the winner on the Republican Ticket and that somehow McCain would prevail. Is John McCain the Republicans first choice, NO, but nevertheless they are supporting him. Hillary has attracted the radical right fringe vote (Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc), but is that something to brag about? John McCain's delegate issue was resolved and the Republicans moved on. Not the Democrats, we have to make sure that somehow we are not disenfranchising voters whose STATE LEADERS broke the rules.
The bigots who voted for Hillary would not vote for her during a general election because if they have to choose between a white woman and a white man, now sexism really does come into play.
It has long been conceded that the only reasonable way to settle the dispute is to admit the Florida and Michigan delegates with one-half vote each, as party rules provide. Beyond that, splitting Florida 50-50 is reasonable, as is giving Clinton 55% of the Michigan vote. Why the latter? 45% of the voters deliberately opted not to vote for her. With the withdrawal of the other candidates, that leaves Obama as the surviving benefactor of "uncommitteed" delegates. In the end, this formula will not make a significant change in the lead he holds, so the Clinton leadership will reject it and threaten to take the campaign on to the convention. That threat will prompt a sufficient number of super delegates to commit to Obama after June 3 to give him the nomination. Clinton will protest that and drag her battle to the convention, where she will not have sufficient votes to win. What will she have accomplished?
these "protests" by hillary deputies are organized, staged, and paid for by the unholy alliance of fascist neocons, zionist theocons, war-profitting corpocons, and Karl Rovian republican operatives.
check the identities of those in the picket line.
publicize the organizational roots of those scumbags online for all to see.
Go to amazon dot com, type Israel lobby, and read up.
In such a tight race why would Hilary Clinton back out from the race?. For once I would love to hear the media ask Obama to back out and save the party. Unfortunetely, this is not about experience and the hard work Hilary has focused on to get to where she is today, this has become more about a Black man and White female wanting to win a race. We should concentrate on what is best for the country, Hilary has the experience, let's keep focused.
I frankly do not care who anyone supports. Follow the Rules.
1 – 5 States went ahead of the rules.
2 – The DNC – in direct violation of the Voters Rights Act – treated Michigan & Florida differently than the other states.
*If you are running an election under ferederal guidelines & with federal money – you better follow your rules.
3 – Out of all the states – Florida has the best defense. The Republican run Legislature moved up the Primary.
4 – Michigan – Obama took his name off the ballot and thereby – according to DNC Rules – Gets No Delegates.
5 – Florida – Obama ran TV ads there & according to DNC Rules 'loses all his delegats (super & pledged).
Obama knows about these rules and never figured if would get this far.
He has used ruled to throw people off the ballot on 2 occasions in Chicago.
He likes to use rules & technicalities against his opponents – let him eat those rules.
Due to the knowledge that the Michigan and Florida votes would not count, the citizens behavior, in terms of voting or not votings, was affected. Therefore, to now consider applying the 50% rule/law, which existed before Howard Dean imposed a 100% stripping, would be to apply that rule/law on a FLAWED ELECTION!!!!!!!!
THAT JUST SHOULD NOT AND CANNOT HAPPEN!!!!!!
THE ONLY SOLUTION OR COMPROMISE THAT EXISTS IS TO SPLIT THE DELEGATES 50/50, WHETHER ITS WITH 100% OR 50% OF THEM BEING SEATED!!!
What is it about democracy that Clinton supporters hate so much?
Why don't they give a "suspended" sentence, where the delegation is given some arrangement for seating AFTER the Primaries, since the primary process is where they erred? It makes no sense for the states that infringed on the system for Primaries to be given more influence over it now! They should lose their influence over the primaries but have a delegation at the convention.
The 2008 Dem campaign exposed one great thing :
That Hillary Clinton is a liar, a cheater, and a foul politician.
She has proven she values her own personal ambitions above party and country.
WE WILL REMEMBER, Hillary, should you ever attempt to run for any public office in the future. WE will make sure you NEVER get elected.
It is time for the super delegates to stand up for Obama and just say 'enough'!! Now the Clinton's lawyer is making the case with the other democrat cronies–just the thing 'change' will end. The Clinton's have neither pride nor shame.
If by some chance this nomination is stolen from Obama, I hope he becomes an Independent and can be considered as a VP by McCain's camp. Now THAT is the dream ticket.
Remember, Hitlery, by the next presidential campaign, probably half of your old lady supporters will be dead. Oops, there goes your base.
It will be irresponsible to seat the vote according to january vote.
They shouls just split the delegate in 2, half to Obama and to Clinton.
You can make laws and break it. By allowing de delagte seated in any means, either half way, will be undemocratic.
How can you explain that someone his name wasn't on the ballot to be allocated a delegate?
How do you give a vote to someone that only her name was on the ballot?
It seems like Castro of Cuba style?
Are we making referredom on Hillary Clinton of democratic nominee?
How can you compensate those who seat back home knowing that there vote won't count????
Give Up HillDawg obviously you are not more electable if you can't even when your own party's race. Or has your plan been all along to ruin Obama's ticket the whole time so you could have another shot at getting beat and shown you are hated by half America. And what if Barack wins, are you going to claim that you should still be president ad this whole event was sexist, and ignore the fact that women have had an easier time gaining equality than black. You suck Hilldawg!!!! Bob Barr 08!!!!!
The set to and agreed upon rules are the rules.
What about that does Hillary now not understand?
oh s**t....
obama 08
Demographically Florida as well as Michigan are "Clinton"-states. When it was decided that the votes from those two states would not be counted she started to lose her "momentum" in favor of Obama. This is unworthy a fair election in a democratical party – don´t you agree? Rigid and meaningless rules and technicalities should not be allowed to settle the nomination.
Senator Obama did NOT follow the RULES: He saturated FL with National TV Ads directed at the state of FL; that means he campaigned in FL, AGAINST the DNC RULES. The PENALTY for doing so is you do NOT get any delegates at ALL from that state.
In MI, he actually had to use campaign money to take his name OFF of the BALLOT. This was NOT required by the DNC! Now he wants to claim ALL "Uncommitted" votes in MI as HIS! As long as Senator Obama’s name is not SENATOR UNCOMMITTED, I do not think he should be rewarded with those votes.
The audacity of ARROGANCE: I'm BLACK and I must have this, and if I don't get it you are all racists...
Unfortunately for America, that seems to be the way the Superdelegates are looking at this and the main stream media as well.
Everyone is so conscious of needing to be POLITICALY CORRECT here, because no one wants to be called a racist.
So, Senator Obama gets a free walk...
Divide up the delegates. Do half instead of the full number. BUT DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE give Barack delegates if they did not vote for him in those primaries. I know his name was not on the ballad because of the DNC but that was his choice to make. Hillary choice not to campaign but left her name on there and people voted for her. I am sorry but to give him the delgates from either state that he did not earn would be foolish and unfair.
Suck it up, Barack, and say like the man you feel you are that it would be wrong just to take votes where people did not clearly vote for you. Remember, there were MANY other candidates in the race then. Maybe they should just divide up all the undecided among all those in the race at that time.
The Clintons makes me sick. First, they agree, with all the other candidates, not to seat ANY delegates from these two states (when they thought they were going to win), now they want "full voting to count" (as long as it favors her and Clinton can seat them the way she wishes). Clinton even has convinced herself that she is winning the popular vote (minus any non-primary states)....Do us all a favor Bill and Hill....Either admit that you lost, unite the party, and leave with a shred of dignity (and possibly even a VP position), or go on and keep it up with the ego, destroy the party, elect McCain...and then go and join with the Republicans who would welcome you with open arms. After 8 years of Bill and 8 years of Bush....no wonder so many of us are turning independent now!!
With due respect for the Clintons, This is all Hillary's (and Bill's) fault. She should have left the race long, long time ago and saved the Democratic pary from this all...My advice? PLEASE Hillary, GO home and begin thinking how you can help the dems win the WH in November.
I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAD A CHANCE TO VOTE OVER IN FLORIDA, I DIDNT VOTE BECAUSE IT DIDNT COUNT, NOW SHE WANTS THEM TO SEAT DELEGATES??!!!!!?? IT IS NOT FAIR, IS THE KIND OF WISHY WASHY GAME WE WILL HAVE TO GO THREW FOR 4 YEARS??? I HOPE NOT.... WELL OBAMA'S GOING TO WIN ANYWAY, SHE GOT WHAT SHE WANTED AND STILL DIDNT WIN??? TIME TO UNITE THE PARTY!!!
OBAMA AND CLINTON '08
The rules were made at the beginning of the campaign. Hillary was aware of the rules and only wants them to change because she is losing. Barack did not make the rules and deserves to win or lose based on the rules set by the Democratic Party. The political spin on this is embarrasing for the country. Bring all of the troops home who are fighting to help establish democracy because democracy does not even exist in this country. If they decide to change it will be the end of the democratic party the end of our democratic process.
how can you tell people that the primary election isnt going to count, then hold it, and then after that say "guess what, remember we said it wouldnt count, well we lied, it does count... gotcha" how is that fair? alot of obama supporters stayed home, dont let anybody fool you by saying they didnt.
There is no question in the minds of great men and women that the vote in Florida and Michigan should be counted as voted.
Why not?
If it is not counted here and accurately why should the states votes count in November? That is the line the Republicans will and should use.
So to blunt that attack, I suggest the all votes be counted as voted.
and let the chips fall as they may
It is the AMERICAN WAY to count all the Votes.
FL and Michigan votes SHOULD count!!
They are Americans too!!!!!!
This isn't just about what will happen this year. How will there be any control over the schedule next time around if the states get their full votes when they break the rules?
I say they have a revote. Include all of Michigan and Florida and set up the computers so that they receive all of the information within 1day of process.
I cannot believe that Hilary supporters can honestly think that awarding all delegates as is would be a fair and just process. Its like a running race, where one runner turned up two days earlier than the sheduled race day, runs the race by themselves and declares themselves the winner! It does not make sense at all.
Anyway, I cannot imagine that the DNC will take this already won election away from Obama. It would tarnish the Democratic Party even more than what Hillary has done already. It would push away all the new voters that Obama has brought to the voting booths and turn them away forever.
I hope you Americans, for the good of the world and yourselves, wont steal this election from the one person who we foreigners feel can redeem America in the eyes of the world. You have a chance to vote for a peaceful and intellegent man who can not only portray the fresh ideas the world needs, but can show that the USA is not full of gun holding redneck cowboys with their greasy fingers on important buttons.
The eyes of the world are on you, dont let us down again.
The Committee should avoid bringing injustice to ALL democratic voters in all 50 states. It's difficult to reach a decision when the referees are players themselves. But consider this:
1) primaries in those two states are illegitimate, and in no way should their votes have any impact to the nomination process.
2) for the sake of uniting the party, these delegates should be allowed to attend the convention.
3) there is no way to "calculate" a "right" % to split the delegates between the two candidates as many voters have not voted and those who have voted were not given the chance to know the candidates. So 50:50 is the only option acceptable.
It's just sarcastic that this country send observers to other countries help police their election process. We badly needed one now.
Hillary is just wasting her time here, she should remove the mask and show her self as a republican, may be shw can run as Mccain runing mate. I know she can not run as an independent because she doesn't share the value of the independent, she has a lot in common with the republicans.
This is not a shot first and ask questions later. Florida and Michigan both knew they weren't going to be counted so the results are complete moot since they are totally skewed since people who played by the rules didn't go out and vote and neither campaigned to make a direct appeal to those voters. So Clinton needs to shut up, the rules apply to her too. She's not entitled to anything, it's over, you lost so sit down and shut up.
If the DNC gives 100% of the delegations back to MI/FL – it will signal lack of party control/discipline... precedence needs to be set, otherwise every state will just hold votes whenever they want to and that's not what we need. (besides, is giving Obama 0 votes in MI really “fair” – come on now)
Voters should blame their local governments, not the DNC
Additionally, an "overhaul" isn't needed. This system has been used for decades and works just fine – we don't change football rules or laws every time someone loses. The system prevents smaller guys from just being eliminated on the first primary day and allows a "front runner" (expected front runner Hillary) to continue to gain momentum – the problem is she didn't prepare for anything past super tuesday – and that's her own fault (overestimating herself or underestimating competition). Heck, she didn't even campaign in like 10+ states and only went for "big" states... so the small states don't count? Puerto Rico sure does seem to count. hmmmm
It really bothers me that the seating of the Florida and Michigan delegates are a big priority of the Clinton campaign. The fact that she now only wants to count the delegates because she absolutely needs them. Is this who we want to represent the Democratic person? Someone only concerned with what's best for her?
yes. count every vote or go for another primary in both states or uphold the rules as stated. this is what we expect from united states in the name of civilisation
.
The blame here belongs to to republican, which is responsible for moving up the Florida primary. For you who say you will vote republican is just plan ludicrous. You should be so upset with the republicans that you come out in great number to support your democrat nominee.
This is insane. Lawmakers breaking the rules and penalties not being enforced. When does wrong become wrong and its' a closed issue? I am tired of this campaign. I am a Republican who serves her country. I wear my uniform with pride and right now, I am so ashamed of the politics and the face of our country....so go ahead and call me "un-American". Whatever...I am an American and I have the right to say shame on the racism, the bigotry and the BS that Hillary Clinton is pulling.
People on the committee should look at the big picture when deciding michigan and florida. A very substantive argument can be made that Obama for all purposes is the democratic nominee. In the 48 sanctioned states by the DNC there is no question he has outperformed Hillary Clinton. She knew Michigan and Florida wouldn't count and here we are, with Obama ahead by 200 or so delegates and needing under 40 to wrap this up. Hillary should have long since bowed out gracefully because her playing this dangerous game is only hurting the democratic party.
I'm more than a little aghast that there are actually Clinton supporters who feel it is fair to count Michigan votes, even when their opponent was not on the ballot...as their candidate also ought not to have been if her own rules were followed.
I don't think I trust the judgment of people like this, nor do I trust the fairness and judgment of their candidate if this is the best they can come up with as a "fair solution."
Who are you people anyway? Did you ever learn to play fair? Or were you the ones, as children, who scratched and bit and stuck their fingers in the other kids' eyes?
the elites of the democratic party .dean reid and peoloski.have given another election to the republicans.
We need reform in the democratic party .what kind of horses petunia would even put in rules not seating delagetes Obama took his name of the mich. ballot .why?afraid he would lose badly ?
Why not eliminate the long drawn out election process .have no more than two primary eletions one east and one west of the mississippi
river then over with it .The election process in this country is a disgrace .only people enjoying this system is the people runnin them.
and gettin rich from them .LET'S CHANGE THE SYSTEM PLEASE!!!!!!!
The DNC should penalise Sen. Clinton for not sticking to the Rules by campaigning in Michigan and Florida. Sen. Obama stuck to the Rules and should get merit for that. Rules are Rules. You cant`t stop the Game at 11.55 to change the existing Rules just because you are loosing. Really hard to figure out what is going on in Clinton`s mind. Hope the Party does not suffer too much from all this Politicking. It`s now time for Superdelegates to weigh in! The Focus should be on winning back the White House!!!!!!!!
In all fairness, hold the primaries for those states again with full participation by both candidates. It will take a little time and cost the party some money. But, in the end, all will be represented fairly. Obama will not be penalized for playing by the rules. Clinton will not be given an unfair advantage for having NOT played by the rules.
Time to end this farce. Hillary will not be the chosen candidate, regardless of whatever bizarre machination she and her people devise.
HER NUMBERS JUST DON'T ADD UP!
Ms. Clinton:
Stop the mindless campaigning to no good end, stop wasting our time and your donor's money and accept your defeat gracefully.
He we go again Floridians. Remember what happened in 2000 which is why we are here now. Why should a few people get to decide who will be our nominee? Why do any of us vote? Last I checked it was my right to vote, which I did, And if people did not vote that was there choice at the time. But my vote should count. Back in 2000 it was the Rebublicans that did not want our votes to count now it is our own party that seeks to disinfranchise us. What is next? The people of Florida and Michigan should be up in arms over this because this is just a snap shot of what can happen in November. Rules are just guidlines that we all try to follow but no one asked me if I wanted to push up the day to vote I was just told that it was so why should I be punished for it? This is why there is no way I will vote Democrate this time around because this stuff is rigged.
It's a no brainer. Hillary Clinton has absolutely turned this process into a circus, objecting to the rules that she had initially agreed to when she knows her candidacy depends on it. The best solution is in Florida award 50% and seat them as voted. In Michigan award 50% of the delegates and split them 50/50 with the candidates. There is no way on earth Clinton can realistically expect to have all the delgeates and popular vote from Michigan when Obama wasn't on the ballot.
The politics the Powered hungry Clintons will scoop to in order to steal this nomination from the first potential black president is absolutely appalling. To think that so many people sit back and support this circus is quite concerning.
Mike From Canada
these clinton supporters are follow her blindly . Where's she when they decided that MI./FL. delegates are not going to sit? Why don't she fight for them at the time? She start fighting for them when she got herself into political problem and these people are buying her aguiment. So sad! many stupid people in america
Hillary Clinton is using every trick in the book to steal this nomination. She agreed to the punishment for Michigan & Florida but hedged her bets by leaving her name on the ballot. Now she wants the delegates seated. Her word is worthless. Is this the kind of President we want. More of the same?
Florida and Michigan should not count they break the rule live with it.No matter what Barak will win TODAY.BILLARY go away you lost the game in Feb.
Sound the ALARM!
Clearly the DNC needs to bring in the country's top hostage negotiators!
The Klinton Kult holds the entire Democratic Party hostage in a Davidian-like trance.
Rumors abound that Bubba Klinton constantly tugs and strokes his thick and tangled beard that is framed by his white and wilding hair.
Are Lacky Davis, Harold Yuc-kes, James Card-sharp and George Stuffingitalot really threatening to carve HC on their foreheads ?
And is Hellary and her Hellcats actually preparing tubs of Kool-Aid to share with their followers' families and children?
The Party must intervene before the Ghost of Reverend Jones once again rears its ugly head.
Bring in the hostage negotiators...NOW!
I hope they think about the general election and who can best lead this country (Hillary Rodham Clinton). I also hope the supporters outside don't get into fights. I think everyone is so emotional about the candidates and I can see the Obama supporters trying to strong- arm the proceedings like they did in the caucus states.
GO HILLARY!
I believe the FL and MI voters are protesting too late. The clamor should have come prior to the primaries, in reaction to the national DNC's response to their states wanting to hold elections too early. It seems as if they are trying to set up a 'have their cake and eat it, too" scenario. If being seated were such a strong priority, they should have mobilized before the primaries and pushed to abide by the clear guidelines governing the election process.
What would the incentive be next time for states to abide by the national election rules if the delegates were seated this time, after having been given a clear "no?"
I THINK THE SUPERDELEGATES SHOULD WAY IN NOW TODAY END THIS BEFOR HILLARY CLINTON SPIT THE DEMOCATIC PARTY 50\50 FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN FAIR AND DONE GAME OVER SEND THE CLINTONS HOME PLEASE"S
Politics is smelling more like new england football and the old fashion back room deals the clintons are known for are sneaking under the doors of the "super"?? delegates. I just don't understand-the rules are the rules and clintons said the fl and mi delegates were not to be counted when this happened, but now need them to have some life so change the rules, sign NAPTA but tell the world you are against it while making millions off us poor voters, sign the agreement to go to war in Iraq but you are against it, get the races at each other for your benefit which shows your past is about you not helping the races, play the i am woman, no i am poor little beaten up women card like the race card. I AM VOTING FOR OBAMA AND I COME FROM A LONG LINE OF REPUBLICANS UNLESS BUSH/CLINTON IS RUNNING AND THEN I GUESS VOTE FOR INDEPENDENT. it is so hard explaining things like this to kids who we teach in school to obey the rules or what????
Well, we will have to see how things work out.
Frankly, if they cave into Sen. Clinton's preference, the DNC rules become absolutely meaningless and every DNC Rule becomes highly questionable.
All I can suggest is to work out a compromise that threats both fairly and does not conflict with the DNC Rules and let's not forget that the canditates were already aware of and agreed to the votes not being counted.
The DNC has a chance of proving themselves as objective and fair to all concerned, or ending up with egg on everyone's faces...
In the end, it is my humble opinion that the original ruling should stand.
I honestly don't know what all whining is about. I just finished reading through the rules of the DNC and there is NO ambiguity.
Paragraph 11. A. states the rules clearly in the first sentence:
"No meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries which constitute the first determining stage in the presidential nomination process (the date of the primary in primary states, and the date of the first tier caucus in caucus states) may be held prior to the first Tuesday in February or after the second Tuesday in June in the calendar year of the national convention."
According to your own sources, Senator Obama followed the rules and withdrew his name from the ballot, Senator Clinton did not, and nor did she withdraw her name from the Florida ballot. Both candidates were told by the DNC that should their names remain on those ballots, their delegates would not be counted. Both delegates agreed to those rules.
IF there was to be a "fair" fix, it would have been to hold new primaries in both states before the cutoff date of the first Tuesday of June. It's too late for that now, unfortunately for EITHER candidate, and anything the DNC would attempt to to do to fix things now at this late date would serve to exacerbate the problem.
What HR has done is being referred to as "CHEATING", and so being the case, cheaters don´t and should n´t be rewarded.
It looks like DNC cannot hold its own.
If DNC cannot govern it's own party, it cannot govern the country.
This election is supposed to be about the urgent issues facing the nation, not about the ridiculous power struggle between Hillary and Obama.
If DNC cannot resolve the problem and the original rule cannot be upheld, DNC serves no purpose and should dissolve itself today.
The country has to move on and we don't need incompetent people around to hinder the progress of our nation.
If no solution can be reached today, dissolve DNC and both candidates run as Independents against McCain and other Independents. I have nothing to do with moveon.org, but we do have to move on. This is just my 2 cents.
Correction, the intended word above in my above statement should have been "treats", rather than "threats".
Why is this happening?
One reason, Hillary Clinton.
"Other" was on the ballot in Michigan for Barrack...
The Clinton campaign didn't play by the rules and are now looking like the child who never got the present he wanted for his birthday.
I can't believe it has gone this far with the DEM
Its a shame, that people feel this is the 60's and they have to result to marching in front of the DNC to make a statement.
It shows we are not united as DEMs
Hillary needs to stop this action, it really makes her camp look bad.
Plus it looks like she can't win on merits
hrc she is not resinable in her request she said before mi & fl will
not count now that she is lossing she want it to be counted
and that would not happen she is fair at all.
Where were all the protesters when elected officials from Fl And Mi decided to vote move primary up. I do agree that millions of people that cast there vote dd not do any thing wrong but the people THEY elected to speak for them DID!! What about the people that knew the rules obeyed the rules and did not vote if you are going to count all the votes what about theirs. I cannot believe what i am hearing from Sen Clinton's supporters to me the are saying "Please excercise your right to vote and follow the rules if you don't get the result you want then PROTEST. I am a democrat and thought that Clinton would win this hands , down fair and square. The sad thing about this IF FLA and MI wouldnot have moved their primary Sen. Hillary Clinton would BE the presumptive democratic nomimee. If the decide to take this away from Obama i will be wataching a movie on November 4, 2008
Obama did campaign in Florida with television ads!!!!!! Just more whining from O-blah-blah-blah so he can try to get to the white house.
There's a movement in Minnesota started by one of the party elders to write in Hillary's name in November if the delegations from FL and MI are fully seeated. Sounds good to me. She is willing to lose in Novemeber.
I was surprised to hear on TV yesterday that women will automatically run to support Obama...they said in about 3 weeks...NOT!!!!!!
Hillary at all costs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If not 2008 then 2012
I'm in favor of 1/2 vote each. Please keep in mind these states were warned up front not to move their primaries ahead. Party officials moved their primaries up anyway despite the fact that they were breaking the rules. Both Clinton and Obama agreed with those rules back in Sept 2007. Neither candidate campaigned in those states and Obama's name wasn't on the ballot in Michigan. Now that Clinton needs those states, she wants to change the rules. She wants the results to count. Obama played by the rules. What type of message is the DNC sending to young people in this country and around the world if Clinton is allowed to benefit by changing the rules ?
However they do it here's the bottom line: Neither candidate should benefit. You cannot benefit by breaking the rules. It's a moral issue not a political one.
Why did Obama take his name off the Michigan ballot and not the Florida ballot? I say that since he took his name off Michigans ballot, that's too bad. Give Hillary what she won there and Obama zero.
I will lose all respect for the democratic party if they seat the delegates from both Florida and Michigan in full as is. It is not fair to those who didn't vote because they were told it wouldn't count, not fair to the states who followed the rules, and definitely sends the wrong message about accountability. The republicans didn't see such division in their ranks! I guess the rule should have been to cut them in half rather than strip all delegates, but how can you call changing the rules in the middle of the game fair? It's just ridiculous that this is even an issue.
We wouldn't have this war between DEM is Hillary would have gotten out back when Obama won 13 straight.
I am starting to not understand her reasoning
Billary knows they can't win, why do they keep taring the party down.
This only shows how mean and ugly they are as a team
I don't want these kind of people in the WH..
sorry, they have reach the limit
Dems
Thanks for this mess! Hillary you are showing your true colors, Step 1) agree to a voting frame work at the beginning of the process that excludes Florida and Michigan for breaking the rules with not one thought or comment about how excluding voters from the process would be a bad idea, Step 2) run an over confident campaign and get over taken, Step 3) Now that you are behind cry foul and fight to over turn the very agreement you signed in the beginning because it is now in your best interest to do so and start claiming that everyone's vote needs to be counted only because it benefits you.
Hate to say it Hillary but if you did your job as a PUBLIC SERVANT and fought for these voters and their votes to be counted in the beginning of the process and not now because it is now in your best interest to do so I would have a bit of respect for you.
It is painfully obvious you are acting in your own self interest and you never cared about the actual voters until now. You do not deserve the nomination – your job is to serve the people and you and the party let them down in the beginning and are flip flopping now for your benefit, not theirs.
If Senator Clinton is looking for a new challenge after Wednesday she should consider standing for the Chair of the Rules Committee of the Democratic Party. She has bent and broken them so many times she is certainly not lacking in experience!!
I guess if you can't win, try to change the rules afterward. Hillary seems to have a lot of admiration for the way Republicans do things. Do her zombie protesters even realize (or care) that Hillary had agreed to this early on when she didn't believe she could lose? Why didn't their votes matter then? It's so insincere. Hillary is not the person I want running this country. We've had enough insincerity and divisiveness in the Bush era, we certainly don't need to put the Democratic version in office.
i do not understand why there is so much talk about this. Rules are rules! The DNC should not feel obliged to seat these delegates just because Clinton wants them to be seated after she noticed that she was losing. she had no problem with Michigan and Florida being punished when she was ahead in the delegate count. And no way in hell must they be fully awarded. If any are to be awarded, it needs to be 50/50! No proportionality because Obama was not even that well known then. if she is so adament about sitting them, then let Florida and michigan vote again. And she pay for the process. If she can afford it! come on hillary, come back and sing another day. This show is over! and i must say, there is definately some truth to the Pfleger sermon. I ain't the religious radical nor black but he wasn't lying. he spoke the truth. Shame on u Hillary!
I think that a very valid point is raised that HAS to be considered. How many voters in Florida did not even show up to vote, knowing the ruling of the DNC and its ramifications? To argue that this is a valid representation of Florida's vote, by either candidate, is misguided at best. In addition, how many did the same in Michigan. And you cannot discount the consideration that all the uncommitted votes in Michigan were, if not a vote FOR Obama, at least a vote AGAINST Clinton.
For the Clinton campaign to say Obama doesn't get any is just an example of how far they will go to try anything to secure an elusive nomination. As if Clinton's backtracking on her pledge to abide by the DNC's decision were not evidence enough – and that is only on THIS topic. There is not enough time or space here to list ALL the examples over the entire course of the last 2 months.
does hillary not realize that if all of the 185 florida delegates are seated, they are seated proportionally, so even if she did win a fairly large majority of them, HE WOULD STILL CLINCH THE NOMINATION because he only needs 46 delegates.
What part of "NO" do these folks not understand???? All parties agreed to the rules whenthey were made!!! All our lives were told to follow the rules.....if you go out of bounds, you don't get a "do over", YOU FOLLOW THE RULES!!!
Geeez.... any five year old could have resolved this in no time..
Remenber who made this mess for you in Flordia and Michigan.
The fact Crist is bring on the short list of Mc Cain makes me wonder did he sign the date hoping for this sort of mess.
I just dont know who the Michigan Governor just thought she was doing. Democratic rules didn't apply to her and her state?
To serve the voters fairly both states should have delegates seated and the ballots cast should reflect the voters choice regardless of the failure of Obama to put his name on a ballot. The vote was still carried out and that vote, the peoples voice, weighs more than a DNC technicality or rule.
Had no voting been allowed there would have been no voice to be heard.
This is not an issue of fairly representing a candidate since Obama wasn't prevented from campaigning yet he chose to deny the voters a voice even if it were only to reflect their opinion and not be used in traditional selection of delegates. It was a poor political move, period. As if the opinions of the people of these two states had no value at all in the process.
The Clinton campaign is trying to play hardball when she really isn't negotiating in a position of strength. Everybody wants Florida and Michigan seated. But because they broke the rules, the results cannot be allowed to upset the progression of the race thus far. Clinton wants the committee to change the race so she can make some argument as to why super delegates should ignore the results of the primary/caucus format. This is politics at it's worst. She makes an argument on behalf of "the people", but she really wants to ignore "the people" who didn't vote for her. In the end, she's putting her political career on the line if she tries to fight "the people's" decision all the way to the convention. And who would be on the credentials committee if she does?....The same superdelegates that are rejecting her argument now. This is pointless...
Obama/Hagel 08'-016'
The only truly fair solution would be an immediate re-vote, paid for by the two candidates,the democratic party, Florida, and Michigan.
Today should be very interesting. I wonder if they'll act any differently with the cameras on.
Seat half the delegates (the most allowed by law-- though apparently clinton wants to break the law- again). Give clinton her "win" in florida even though her win was based only on name recognition, which is hardly democratic. Give her her win in michigan and give obama the "uncommitted" vote, even though she shouldn't have been on the michigan ballot to begin win.
Clinton will STILL LOSE.
Obama will be the next president and I hope to God that Clinton disappears because she's just as manipulative as Bush.... proclaiming that every vote in florida and michigan should be counted because it's "democratic"... was that her attitude a year ago when she agreed to not seat ANY florida or michigan delegates?
Hillary is extorting the Democratic Party; Everyone with a sliver of a backbone must deal her a resounding defeat. Otherwise, the Party will be no better than a Banana Republic!!!!
Pretty weak.
Please let's finish this today.
This seems to be a "no-brainer" to me! Is there something I'm missing here? Florida and Michigan disobeyed the rules and were told there would be consequences and their votes wouldn't count. Now, Hillary is crying "Foul!" because she's losing and wants all these votes to count! She was quick enough to agree to the DNC rules when she was way ahead in the polls but now she wants to stick it to Senator Obama who carefully followed the rules!! SOMEONE, please explain this to me. I have plenty of sympathy for the voters of Florida and Michigan, however, how is changing the rules mid-stream in anyway fair when it only benefits one side – that side being Hillary Clinton, who along with her husband and backers possess the most undeserved "sense of entitlement" I've ever seen!!!
High emotions = irrational actions. I sure hope all of these decision makers keep their emotions in check before making any final decisions. We all know when our emotions run high we do things we normally wouldn't do. Many times to our great regret later on. Keep your emotions in check so you can thing logically and rationally.
Why is this woman doing this to the party? why, why why?
and yep, i watched the sermon, and i ain't the radical either and trust, i completely disagreed with jeremiah right and all the foolishness that come out of his mouth but Pfleger, he said it! i was like 'preach'!!!!! Just bow out gracefully. Please Hillary. Just GO!!!!!!!
CLINTON IS SO STUBBORN!!!!!!! I wish someone would play me, and the rest of us, a montage of her past statements where starting with florida and michigan don't matter – all the way up to: the comparison to Zimbaabwe's election and that she is now the self-appointed savior of the voters! Gimme a break. She's greedy and self-serving and this more than any other campaign trick proves it!
It is fully shameful, I say. The honest way is to follow rules which were determined before MI and FL votes. Easy and simple
Hillary Clinton agreed on the rules, violated them, and now making a big mess driving her supporters to protest. She and Bill are the hypocrites of this Century!! What is even more amazing is that the Democratic Party is unable to stand by its policy and rules. There is a danger that Democratic Party will lose again this election. Unite behind Obama!!
I guess you CNN twerps are afraid to publish my email about clintonistas because you support her
The more i'm getting to know Obama the more i'm starting not to like him. He didn't win Florida back then, and he's not going to win Florida now.
A pathetic comment on politics in the USA.
has anyone figured out how the dems can win without fla or mi in nov?
the latest polls show mcbush winning both states and dems dont want to make both states wecome
just form the circular firing squad.
Florida and Michigan decided to go against DNC rules when they decided to hold their primaries early knowing that their votes would not count. Back then, Senator Clinton and Senator Obama were fine with that decision (of course back then Senator Clinton thought that she would be the Presidential nominee).
Now that it is clear that Obama will be the next democratic nominee she is stirring up Michigan and Florida voters to go out and protest which could possibly divide the Democratic Party in those states. This clearly shows how her ambitions are before what the American people have already decided.
This wouldn't have come this far had Obama been white. If Clinton was leading in delegates she wouldnt have let change the rules. This hypocrisy makes me sick.
I think it's all so incredibly rediculous. If Hillary feels she can just change the rules to meet her needs, which are not the needs of the entire country, then maybe you all may want to reconsider voting her into office. As you're seeing now she will only work her heart out for herself, whether it be legal or illegal. She's an extremely selfish and manipulative woman who won't hesitate to lie and or destroy in order to get what she wants. That type of person is dangerous as President. Remember we've just endured 8 years of this. Do you really want a repeat???
The Titanic is sinking and the band,with the water lapping at its ankles is arguing over planning the music for the evening...
If Senator Obama was white he would not be going through this. The whole point of Senator Clinton's action is to keep a black man out of the White House. If John Edwards was in Obama shoes you would hear nothing from Bill or Hillary. I don't see why she should have her way with the Florida and Michigan votes she is no better than Senator Obama. I guess today we will see just how many racists there are and where the majority of them are located.
Just follow the agreed upon rules ! Hillary will always flip-flop in that entitled demeanor for whatever serves her best,whenever ! She agreed last fall that the votes would't count if Fla. & Mich. did not follow the rules. Where does her childish selfishness end ???? End it now !! Send her packing !!
Well, I must say that the Clinton team is certainly pulling out all the stops to try to win Hillary's "entitled' position as President. These attempts to stop Obama, including the relic from another lifetime, Geraldine Ferraro, will fail.
If Clinton and her mob manage to 'steal' the nomination from Obama, she will face the biggest defeat in her elected history in November.
Go Obama!!
The reasonable solution would be to seat Florida as is, and to split the Michigan delegates 50-50. Seating Michigan delegates as is would be unfair to the Obama camp, and it could be conceded, for peace's sake, that Hillary won fair and square in Florida.
Can't this just be resolved so we can all move on to the general election?
Obama '08
The two states broke the rules. They new there would be a penalty, but did it anyway. Just like some Republican states that were stripped of half their delegates. Hillary Clinton and Obama agreed the votes would not count towards primary, and would not champaign in those states. Senator Obama followed the rules, Senator Clinton did not. Why should Obama be penalized for following the rules? If a gunman shot an individual should the police arrest the the person that was shot and let the gunman go?
Continue to show America what a flawed party you are:)
Love it.......
That the Democrats are even having a discussion about counting the Florida and Michigan delegations just proves once again that there is no discipline in the Democratic Party. The two states knew the rules. If the rules are to mean anything, then they should not count. To even have a meeting about this, just shows to the country that you can't trust the Democrats (and I am one) to hold to their principles. They will always compromise their principles to demonstrate sympathy for the poor, "I've created my own problem" downtrodden. Personal accountability is not something we Democrats seem to believe in whether its pardoning people for taking on mortgages they knew they could never pay or running primary elections after being told "don't do it because it won't count".
This is why many people don't trust us on national security issues because they think we will always seek appeasement.
Let's for once show them, we do have principles and the backbone to stand by them. No delegates for Florida or Michigan. Period.
Hillary Clinton should PULL OUT of the Democratic Party and register under a "NEW REALITY" Party, Independent; and screw the Demo Donkey"s.
Senator Clinton is the BEST Candidate for the Office of President !!!
Rep. Sheila Jackson, HO. TX. would be an excellent V.P. Choice .
The Country wants and needs Change, YOU GOT IT !!!
DNC should not allow HRC supporters to make this difficult. It is very simple, by not splitting FL and MI equally; DNC will penalize the states which abided by DNC rules. FL and MI should be sited in a way that does not change the result, rendered by law abiding 48 states.
This is all Hillary mess. Her campaign wrote the rules and all agreed and signed on a dotted line. Hillary is also on tape from last year about how Michigan and Florida vote will not count. Question1: where was Hillary supporters and voices then?? Question2. Why it took Hillary until April to start this crap about popular vote that Michigan and Florida vote should vote. Now all of a sudden she wants the the whole ten yards in her favor. Sorry!!! Its not going to happen.
Go Obama '08
I hope that this meeting turns out in a positive way and that the delegates are fairly awarded (hopefully by primary results–especially in Florida). I would hate for this to go all the way to the convention, but if today's ruling is not acceptable, there will probably be a fight on the convention floor. I still believe Hillary Clinton to be the stronger nominee to fight against John McCain. I am hoping and praying that she will come out ahead in all of this. The people of Florida have spoken and want Hillary Clinton as our nominee for President. Keep fighting Senator Clinton; we still love and support you 100%. GO HILLARY 08!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can"t the delegates just be shared equally between the two candidates to aviod any beefs?
The debacle that is unfurling throughout this day will be anything but unifying. Thanks Hillary! Republicans wouldn't have a chance without you.
Only 30% of Michigan voters voted in the democratic primary. If the DNC seats their delegates "as is" they are disfranchising over 70% of people who didn't vote because Michigan officials made it clear that the votes would not count. Who is being disfranchised here? The 30% who voted anyway or the 70% who didn't want to waste their time and gas money because they were told their votes wouldn't matter anyway?
Please make sure it is fairly distributed to Obama
There is no way that HC deserves the delegates from the Michigan "un-primary". She signed on to the idea of the illegitimacy of of our primary late in 2007 along with the rest of the candidates. Obama's name did not appear, reasonably so since the rules said that the primary would not count, and so a significant number of us did not even go to the polls to participate in what we were told was an exercise in futility. Now she wants all of the votes counted which were cast in her favor and, basically, none of the "uncommitted" ones counted which, it could be argued, were cast for Obama in large part. At the very least it is clear that they were not cast for her.
All of this, and the pastor comments, and the "bitter" and on and on is the same old, same old – get the people to concentrate on anything but the real issues so they won't notice when nothing in their increasingly difficult day-to-day lives changes for the better.
I am a 60 year old white male with two college degrees who is tired of the politics of division, the empty promises, the self-serving power trips, and the Republican every "man" for themselves philosophy of the good life and I am going to support Obama with a fervor that I have never experienced before in my voting career.
How come Hillary supporters weren't screaming "count all the votes" months ago when the DNC stripped Florida and Michigan of their delegates? This is a shameful display by the Clinton camp. But I can't say I'm surprised.
Democrats need to take into consideration the unjustice they have been subject in Florida during Gore/Bush elections. Senator Hilary needs to show leadership by respecting her consent to party engagement. She signed to penalize, then came back behind Obama's loyalty to campaign as sole candidate and now claims victory. Victory over whom? Would Hilary voluntarily decide to back up has she been the front runner. People, Americans are taking notes of your nasty politics. The whole world is watching. The Cinton campaign has the ball.
VP
It is no surprise that Clinton wants to ignore the rules, as she obviously believes rules are for the little people. And Obama is the elitists?
Why does Clinton get a free ride from CNN? I noticed you guys even tinted your "Decision Day" photo of Obama green, so he looks like a sick space alien.
Are you people children? Just because FOX News does stuff like that, you have to ape them?
they must not count it
I really hope they come to a decision before November....
Seriously, for HIllary to have a believable arguement, she should have been in both states corners from the start. She wasn't there for them until it helped her. She talks of all votes counting? How about the people from both states that didn't come out to vote because they thought their vote didn't count. Also, would we even have this meeting if the states were delegate poor states, such as North Dakota, or Montana?
I am rambling, but as I see it, one candidate followed the rules, (Obama), yet he is now painted by the other as not wanted the votes to count. If Florida and Michigan want their votes to count in the future, I suggest they vote out the Idiots in their states that caused this mess.
Go Obama '08
John Edwards got 14% of the Florida vote. Will he be awarded any delegates? Remember Clinton only got 50% which means that 50% didnt want her and Edwards has endorsed Obama.
I'm an Obama supporter and I'm ready for this to be over. Why does Hillary want the delegates to be issued by the results when clearly it wasn't a fair game in those 2 states? One one ballot, Obama's name wasn't even an option and she feels this is ETHICAL and doesn't want to compromise at all. I'm sorry Hillary...this is really low because you know that if the tables were turned you would be furious, ESPECIALLY if your name wasn't on the ballot as Obama's wasn't in one state.
I think rules are rules and we should abide by them. It is not fair to seat all the delegates, as both campaign agreed to this descision. Hillary is a cry baby. I voted for her in the NY Senate. Never again. No more clintons, they are history. If Hillary was leading in the delegate count and popular vote, she wouldn't care. She thinks she is entitled. Obama should not make her his running mate. If she ever get the nomination, I will join a protest against her and bring the party down.
I fully agree that every vote should count according the ideals and principles of the democracy . However the people in those two States were told that their vote will not count for the primaries. Millions of people voted but what about those who didn't? If the results are count as is, their vote and voice will be ignored and they will be disenfranchised. They don't matter?
More importantly, Senator Clinton did sign a pledge that she will not
campaign in those two states. And she has publicly said on the radio about Michigan in particular : "in any case their vote will not count". I want to have a woman president but not by means of deceit and horrifying DISHONESTY. Why she agreed back THEN to disenfranchise voters?
As an American citizen and a registered Democrat I can't believe that my vote in the Florida primary can be dismissed as can my vote
to chose a delegate to represent my choice at the convention be ignored. I am disgusted with the leadership of the DNC.
My first thoughts are , Obama HIMSELF took his name off the Michigan Ballot, that was HIS choice. COUNT the votes as they were cast or loose us in November and we WILL pick a NEW Democrat in 2012. Count us or Loose us, its up to you.
"Sad and Desperate." This is fast becoming the legacy of Hillary Clinton. Win at all costs... cheat, lie, and insist on rules changes.... She needs to concede.... with dignity... if she has ANY left....
Hillary is now actively trying to split the Democratic party so that at least her close friend John McCain can win if she can't.
Clinton / Lewinsky '12
So Obama followed the rules and Clinton didn't and she wants credit for cheating. If she really wanted their votes to count she would take a 50/50 split and then everybodies votes would count. Anybody with intelligence knows that she only cares about her interest. Wouldn't the people who didn't vote because her campaign people penalized them feel cheated. What about their votes?
I actually despise Hillary but I must say that she outsmarted Barack on this one. He was foolish to ignore Florida and Michigan and now he is paying for it Of course, she is a master flip flopper because she agreed to the penalties against Florida and Michigan last year and now she acts outraged that they are actually being penalized.
But that's what makes her a master politician.
Obama, did you learn something from all this?
Let me weigh this out: " Playing by the rules and maintaining integrity " VS "Selfish, prideful determination to get one's way no matter WHAT "..... gee, I just don't know which way to go on this one.
Democrats held hostage by drunken, gun packing, screeching shrew.
No wonder her hubby preferred other women.
O let it go already clinton, u lost, u'll never be president in this millenium, just get over it already.
they want to call florida fair but the numbers suggest otherwise. florida, with a little over 18 million residents, is the 4th most populated state with nearly 6 million more people than each of the 3 states below it. yet all 3 states cast more votes inn the primary than florida. also, i believe there were more things on the ballot than just president. you ever think those voters went to the polls for that reason?
we all know michigan should not count as is considering you couldn't even vote for obama. how many voters punched clinton because they were just filling their ballot.
but even a better reason is that these states need to be punished in some way for jumping line against party rules. they should have been punished by 50% the day they moved. then both could have campaigned and this would have never been an issue. that's what the republicans did. what's funny to me is clinton has more supporters in the commitee, if she wanted every vote counted why didn't she throw her weight around back then??
H I P O C R A C Y!!!!!
In a letter addressed to the co-chairs of the rules committee, Clinton lawyer Lyn Utrecht said Friday the panel is compelled to seat both delegations from Florida and Michigan fully and not award Obama any delegates from Michigan.
"It is a bedrock principle of our party that every vote must be counted, and thereby every elected delegate should be seated," Utrecht wrote.
Just as long as as they voted for YOUR candidate, right?
What could more transparently evil, calculating, opportunistic and political as this advocated "solution?"
Katherine Harris is Hillary Clinton's role model and mentor.
Everyone keeps saying to count ALL the votes. Count them ALL then, redo the whole thing so that those wanting to vote for Obama can. Grow up people and count them ALL (even obama supporters) or let the RULES stand and stop whinning. She did not complain until it was for her benefit, you can look up the video on youtube. Clinton is working harder to destory the party than bringing it together. Open your eyes, Rockefeller did, Kennedy did, hell even Rupert Murdoch did..
Obama HAS NOT WON this nomination. Why should Hillary bow out when at least half of the dem voters clearly want HER. Maybe Obama should bow out for the sake of the party. That makes as much sense.
Seat the delegates, the rules call for a 50% reduction of delegates not he elimination of all. By the way, McCain is not Bush. The Obama-bots want to tie McCain to Bush but not Obama to Pfleger or Wright? Those pedophiles in the Catholic church at least did not stand up and profess their preversion, to the cheers of the congregation. Obama has to approve of his Churches retoric or he would have left. Divine Intervention come on!!!
Obalegerwright is not fit to be President.
After the issue of MI and FL are resolved and the primary elections come to a close Barrack Obama will still be ahead in every category.
So Americans again ask....Since Obama will (AND IS) be ahead in.....
Delegates...Popular vote......and States won...Will the "lady" in the pants suit stop all this self serving, lying tactics and come together to unite the party around Obama?
OBAMA '08!
ALL the votes should be counted. Obama and all of his silly supporters are such cry-babies, always screaming "racism" everytime anyone questions Obama as a suitable candidate for the highest position in the US. This priest incident is just another example of how Obama is NOT what he presents himself to be. There is NOTHING special about Obama. He is extremely arrogant, inexperienced, he's a racist, a hypocrite and a traitor, and oh yeah, also a sexist. I can only imagine the uproar if it would been MacCain the one to call a female reporter "sweetie" like Obama did. How can I vote for someone that ditched his Pastor/mentor/spiritual adviser/friend just to get more votes??? How can anybody trust such a hypocrite? Although I do not agree with Reverend Wright's views, I feel sorry for him for being so humilitated and discarded by Obama simply to get more votes. It is so apparent that the only reason Obama has gotten this far is because he is black . Obama has gotten almost ALL of the African-American vote. If that is not blatant racism , I don't know what is. His supporters treat him as he were their long-awaited Messiah. And his speeches? Oh please: Blah, Blah, Blah, change, blah blah, change, blah, change, blah, blah BLAH... I am so sick of the word "change"!!!!!!!! Well, Obama supporters, "change" is NOT necessarily a good thing. Obama has the huge potential to "change" this country's dire situation from bad to worse. I, along with MILLIONS of voters do not trust Obama and WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM.
Hillary Clinton sickens me!!
She is like a spoiled brat who wants her own way!!
If anyone thinks if the scenario was switched she wouldnt cry out
unfair , they are deluding themselves!!
When she was ahead it didnt matter one iota and now that shes behind she wants to change the rules in the middle of the game
It speaks volumes about her character and how power hungry she is!!
I realize they have to be seated somehow in these states but lets hope they are fair about it!!
Of course CNN has always been pro Hillary ...thats been quite obvious from how they have always focused on Senator Obamas negatives on every show every night!!!
By the way I dont have a dog in this race.I am from another country
so I can look at this with an outsiders opinion and fair perspective!!
Sorry this is how I see it all!!
Let's be sure to change the rules for the female candidate and especially since she was a major part of enacting those rules. And she's a feminist? I guess there's men, women, and Clintons. Oh, it's Clinton bias isn't it? I get it now.
For all votes to count, you have to count all votes. Except MI and FL gave up that right when they moved the primaries ahead.
The played Russian rouette...and lost.
Sorry.
Can you get any more unfair? How can the Obama campaign make this unfair demand of the Clinton camp known to all who will hear? Obama needs to have a news conference explaining what happened, what Clinton camp wants, what he wants - with flip charts, Slides and the like. THIS IS A TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE and she cannot get away with it!!!!
Democratic party always fail to solve the problems
Only Bill Clinton gave the life to the party in 1992
So our votes only for Hillary Clinton
Hillary 08
Make the rules. Break the rules. Well, alright! No harm, no foul. The DNC is very literally, a joke.
HILLARY continues to flaunt her claim to have the overall "popular vote" using the illegal vote tally from the Michigan and Florida primaries, and uses that as the only basis for her "deserving the nomination". The real story is because of her overwhelming arrogance, she continues to splinter the Democratic party by staying in the race when the voters have spoken otherwise. To reward her now by giving her an unfair edge using the Florida and Michigan results is ludicrous. Its time for the party leaders to finally say "ENOUGH HIULLARY!"
Congrats Democrat party for keeping this dignified. In particular Mr Obama has set the scene for the next 4 years – concillatory, diologue based remedies for situations that are tough and complex.
That is what makes a strong leader. A capacity to address the issues of the day and find an outcome. Leadership is about poise, timing and example. Not about boasting who is the bigger, badder wolf, and how many houses that wolf can blow over by huffing and puffing. The word liberal shall bare no shame after you are done Mr Obama – and robust liberalism is here to stay.
The times of the neo con are over – robust liberalism is back in town.
I think we're all really sick of this. The Clintons agreed to the rules when this all started some time ago and Hillary was on the commitee to punish Michigan and Florida. Does anyone have any doubt what she would be saying right now if she were leading? I'm sure Bill is behind alot of this, so why would anyone want either one of them back in the White House when they cannot be honest with us now? The goal post keeps on moving back with these two and the cheerleaders are chanting " if you can't beat em, cheat em"
What they are going to do is a VIOLATION OF THE DEMOCRATIC RULES,favoring Hillary!!IF it would've been the other way around ,I don't think Obama would've been acting like she has done!!!It is NOT fair to change the rules of a baseball game just because you are l;osing!!!!!!!!!!!!Think about it!!!
It is disgusting to see a FORMER FIRST LADY act like a child. For years the Clintons acted like they're OWED something by the American people like greedy juveniles.
IMPEACHED Bill Clinton should have checked his lunatic wife but too late, his reputation will tell a story of greed, corruption, impeachment, fraud and self pity.
YOUTUBE and the INTERNET is the truth teller and boy oh boy, the libraries will be filled with PROOF the Clintons should be erased from history and placed with the criminals.
A peaceful and unifying solution is one that will guarantee that by the end of tuesday, there is aclear nominee for the party so that everyone will coalesce around him/her.
The obvious thing to do is to seat the full delegation; giving each delegate halve a vote and sharing them 50/50 among the two candidates. Any solution that gives Hillary net delegates will increase her hope of miraculously becoming a nomine; this will make her continue the infighting and division that is currently rocking the party and make the party vulnerable come November. She needs to understand that she cannot win (as things stand now) witout destroying the party.
Which is more important? Being the Nominee of a destroyed party; and loosing in the fall or working for the success of a united party that will likely win the whitehouse?
Hillary,
FIGHT FOR EVERY VOTER OF MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA.
Fight for them not only because it’s right, but also because we need them to win the White House.
If the DNC and Party leaders don’t seat every delegate, fully and accurately in reflection of the voters’ will, then take the fight to the Convention!
If they can’t grasp the importance of Michigan and Florida in the general election, then the nominee of the Party deserves to lose in November and will lose in November.
If you don’t get the nomination and take the fight to John McCain, then McCain will be the next President of the United States.
In addition to Michigan and Florida, you get the Electoral votes from Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia and Kentucky–all the key swing states. NO OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE WILL GET THOSE ELECTORAL VOTES IN NOVEMBER.
Why? Because you are the best candidate with the best ideas and the best qualifications to win the White House and be the best President of the United States.
You have millions of supporters—who understand our political system and know what time it is—standing with you!
HILLARY CLINTON ’08
It's nice to see that Hilldog has the political clout to change the rules. According to the rules none of the delegates should be seated, and Clinton did not once mention that the states primaries should count until she was losing. Now it's all about the voters being disenfranchised, give me a break, where was she when the ruling first came down. Also in Michigan either both of their names should have been on the ballot or neither. The fact that Clinton kept hers just shows that she makes her own rules, just like she is trying to do now.
Proud Obamabot (whatever that's supposed to mean)
Get it done guys so that the fat lady can sing......
It is just beyond my comprehension how this woman can honestly think she deserves to have all of the delegates seated as they are. It just doesn't make ANY sense to me? It is clearly changing the game as you play.
FACTS:
Hillary Clinton voted in favor of the decision that if Michigan and Florida moved their primaries up that they would LOSE ALL of their delegates. SHE voted IN FAVOR of this? Does anyone else see a problem with her current argument?
Obama wasn't even ON the ballot in Michigan. Many people did NOT vote in Florida or Michigan because they were told their votes wouldn't count. So- in lue of a redo, which obviously isn't going to happen...there just is not a fair way to settle this. I'm expecting that they will give Florida half of the delegates (all seated with half votes) and nothing with Michigan. This even seems too generous.
These so called protesters today are a total joke! They are basically saying that it's ok to cheat?
I am just so sick of this. Thank GOD for the party leaders who will not let this drag on after this weekend!
Get out of the way Hillary! We are sick of you!
The fact that this meeting has to occur at all does not shine well on Hillary. She and her people, including the ones at the top, all agreed with the consensus that Michigan and Florida (where I'm from) broke the clearly-set rules and would have to pay for it. There were no qualms back then, no cries of "count of the vote". Not until she began losing and needed the votes to even have the slimmest chance.
If Hillary doesn't concede after June 3, the party will begin taking structural damage every single day, and we will be royally screwed in November, when McCain and the Bush machine picks us apart. And God help us if that happens. I'm not willing to be drafted to fight in Iran.
What a liar, Obama ran tv ads in Florida. If he gets the nomination I am definitely voting McCain
Follow the the rules.
50% vote for pledged delegates and split other contestants votes 50/50 each candidate.
Ban the super delegates primary voting and Convention.
Deal with the popular vote allocation, based on Michigan state democrats allocation of delegates proportinately it does not matter if you use 100 or 50% proportions the answer is the same and Obama loses about 400,000 popular votes but is still ahead, if you include rightly so, caucus states.
Michigan "uncommited" ( 40%). When HRC was on the ballot ,who does she imagine when they took the trouble to write uncommitted, they voted for ?It certainly was not her! so she will disenfrancise those voters and the Pledged delegates as well who might have gone to Obama. Ooops sorry she wants those as well.
Florida take it as voted andother candidates 50/50 to Obama and Clinton.
Stop confusing delegate votes with popular vote, that is purely a Clinton political argument to the Super delegates, which if upheld = the democratic party loses in November whether it is Clinton or Obama because many democrats who turned out for "change" will not vote in the Presidential election. That is a more realistic statement than the media Hype of democrats voting Republican and McCain.
From what I read the democrats ( rules committee) this weekend will shoot themselves in the foot and be alame duck in the presidential election it is very sad to observe as a totally outside person but a democrat at heart.
Regards,
Hodgson.
In any Democracy the rule of law must prevail if it is to be worth its salt. As Socrates noted long ago, if you don't like the current polis and its rules and conventions you have choices in a democracy: you can work to change the rules or you can leave. But you can't change the rules in the middle of the game to benefit one player/team. This makes a mockery out of rules, which have emerged for good reasons.
Hillary Rodham Clinton faces several paradoxes. She wants to be leader of the world's leading democracy. She wants to be leader of the Democratic Party. However, she is a bad example of both because were she to succeed, everywhere in the world she goes she would lend comfort to the enemies of democracy. So I hope in their wisdom the Dems will find a reasonable compromise, which does not reward rule-breakers and does not reward Clinton's unfortunate (and self-interested) advocacy of rule-breaking.
It is amazing to me that Obama has the audacity to call Clinton divisive..
After all, his relationships, his fabrication of Wright's background so his speech would sound good, his 67 lies (and counting) about his background, about Rezko, how he handled his first campaign, and what he is doing in this campaign....
It seems this entire campaign has been about Obama Drama explaining away his friendships, calling those that disagree with him either divisive, or his supporters calling them racists, and he has managed to run this entire primary without taking a clear stand on anything...other than he was right....well so was Bush...he reminds me too much of Bush...Bush is another man that cannot be criticized on anything...
Obama says Clinton can't be trusted....but Obama's OWN actions prove he can't be trusted...but he is much smoother at explaining away...I will give him that....
I will support my Democratic Nominee no matter what....we must not allow McCain to go to the White House.
In the world of "competition" the is a period of play, rules that you play by, referees to enforce them, some object or ball that is used to faciltate the competition and finally, the one with the most wins,that played by the rules,did not get penalized too much, not too many fouls and has the most points!!!! then that "one "WINS!!! Now, what part of that do people not UNDERSTAND!!!!!
I want Obama to win over all but I think he should give her what she wants in Florida and try to work out something in Michigan. How could Hillary supporters think that Obama got NO votes in Michigan. I still would swear that if Hillary wasn't loosing, this wouldn't be an issue for her. Maybe it would be for Obama, I honestly don't know. But Michigan is messed up because his name was not on the ballot and her camp doesn't want Obama to get any delegates from Michigan since he wasn't on the ballot. It doesn't seem fair. Overall, Those states broke the party rules and what's really messed up about it is that the republicans are the ones who made that decision and moved the dates up. I just wish this whole thing wasn't an issue. Hillary agreed to the rules and said it herself.
The Democratic Party Chairman is responsible for this stupid and ridiculous Rule that is absolutely unenforceable. Where were the brains of this group when trying to come up with a penalty? What difference did it make that the Primary was held at an earlier or different date? It's all stupid and the Chairman is to Blame. All the votes should be counted from both states. This is a Presidential Primary........understand? ALL VOTES MUST BE COUNTED! You can screw around with the Number of Votes! It's ABSURD and STUPID that such a RULE was made in the FIRST PLACE! ARE CHILDREN RUNNING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? LOOKS LIKE IT.....
Seat some but not all.........it's only fair.
If the Democratic leadership takes this nomination away from Barack Obama, they have not seen anything compared to the trashing that the party and Hillary Clinton is going to get.
Not only would she lose the general election by a landslide, but the Democratic Party will lose it and the future and be effectively destroyed.
Daily the public will be reminded that the Party of Lincoln does not do what the Democrats have done-it will again become the party of African Americans and the younger generation.
If you agree to the rules at the beginning of any contest, then the players are bound by those rules. Changing the rules after the fact is simply not right. The voters of Florida and Michigan could have boycotted the primary to get their representatives to correct their primary date, and not be penalized, but they didn't.
The representatives knew their delegates would not be seated at the convention BEFORE the voting occurred, therefore, they accepted the penalty.
How does the Democratic Party expect the world to believe in them if they can't even accept their own rules? I am an Independent, and I want change. I don't want the usual childish bickering going on between two parties, I want a unified UNITED States.
Can we have a checkbox in November that says "None of the above"? I would have checked that in the past two elections. We have not been given an intelligent choice for the most powerful leader in the free world.
We looked like fools to the world in 2004, we had to choose between an idiot and a fool in 2000. At this point, I would vote for McCain over Clinton, due to her ridiculous wrangling of rules she has started.
What intelligent person would not see through her rhetoric? Change means get the Bushes and Clintons out of the White house. Neither has brought our country honor or respect in the past decades.
Let's bring the reputation of the USA out of the mud, stop catering to big business who cheats and oppresses the third world, and make this a better planet.
I'm sure Hillary will be ripped off in the end. That would be the logical step since the whole Florida and Michigan thing was started by the DNC when they could have found a solution before the primary season. There are too many involved in this who want to keep Hillary from receiving the nomination. They don't care about winning in November they care more about seeing Obama get the nomination. They also don't give a hoot about voters in Florida and Michigan! Committee rules are more important then having fair primaries, counting all the votes in all 50 states and not just 48. Worse, Americans are seeing their consitutional right to vote and to have their votes counted taken away from them by a dictatorial and non-democratic DNC.
I want to still vote for a democrate in the fall but if Michigan and Florida votes do not count I will cross over and vote for John McCain. If this is all wrapped up and Obama's team thinks he is the nominee then what are they afraid of?
i was just watching cnn. do clinton supporters realize that florida could end up a virtual tie?
clinton got 50%
obama got 33%
edwards got 14%
if edwards delegate go to obama he would get 47%
Count the votes...for this to be a fair race they need to be counted. As far as Obama not campaigning in those states that was his decision, he is so flipit about everything, I guess he didnt think the peoples votes in those states were inportant...Oh well Obama go home crying
I have so had it with the DNC and their lack of backbone in settling this argument. If Clinton STEALS the nomination I will never vote Democratic again. Today I start looking at 3rd party candidates.
I have never seen such a screwed up nomination process. The DNC should be ashamed of themselves for allowing Clinton to dictate how the primaries are run. She has made it impossible for any woman to become a presidential candidate for a long time to come after seeing how she has run her campaign.
Obama has followed the rules set by the DNC since day 1 and today we have the people in that committee that support Clinton trying to change the rules in her favor. Democratic process my A – - ! When are you people going to remember this process is supposed to be fair? If you allow her to have her way you are going to be shooting yourselves in the foot. I think it would be safe to say that the majority of Obama supporters are fed up with what is going on and won't vote for Hillary if she CHEATS her way into getting the nomination.
This comment made by a 50 Y/O white independent female voter who knows better than to vote to put a Clinton back in the White House.
Get ready fellow Patriotic Pro-American Democrats, if these people give this thing to the anti-americans we MUST ALL VOTE FOR MCCAIN OR WRUTE HER IN !!! This is about the future of this country, it is not about the petty personallity contest like they have in high school. This could be the difference between a safe countrey free from foreign and DOMESTIC enemies. Lets do what we know is right. We must all vote for a American in an American election.
PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON 2008 !!!
or
JOHN MCCAIN 2008 !!!
or
osama bin ladin , the death of america.
Rules are rules, why should the party twist its own arm just to please Mrs Clinton who seem to bulldoze her way through everything? She has been counting her "popular votes" for months now and from her talks one can tell she is somebody who deliberately wanted votes from the two states rules or no rules! Barack obeyed the rules now he has to pay for being loyal to the party (and its rules)!... even to think about such unfairness makes me dizzy.
I can imagine what kind of a president she can make... little difference between her and George W Bush – common denominator...ITS EITHER MY WAY OR HIT THE ROAD! but anyway its her time to hit the road back home hoping she will find willy billy there! Its been good having her reach this far we now know who she really is.
Please Barack....don't agree to GIVE Hillary ANY advantage !!!!!!
THE CLINTONS CANNOT BE TRUSTED !!!!!!
I live in Florida, yes we had a record breaking turn out for our primary, but it was not just for Sen. Clinton.
We were voting on an amendment to double our homestead tax exemption,
Hilary was a second thought, her name was the only one one on the ballot.
Knowing that our vote would not count or only count as half, I do not believe the turn out would had been that great without the amendment influence.
For this reason I feel it only fair if delegates are to be counted they should be distributed equally
Thank you
Victoria
I'm from Michigan and I didn't vote because Obama's name wasn't on the ballot. It was like some kind of communist country with only Hillary as a choice. That wasn't a democracy and Hillary did not fairly win my state.
Seating Michigan delegates they way they are would cheat me out of my vote. A do-over would have been good, but without that I say DON'T SEAT THE DELEGATES.
Hm, hm, hm. Just a few months ago, Hillary clearly and unambiguously stated her support for the sanctioning of these states by the Democratic Party. She also signed the decision to penalize these states for moving up their primaries despite the warnings from the DNC. Now she wants us to believe she cares so much for the rights of the people of Florida and Michigan by insisting that the votes be counted as is. While I totally support that these states' delegates be seated, I also wonder at the 'turncoat' attitude of Hillary and her supporters who are displaying a desperate attitude of selfishness. This is a disturbing character flaw for someone who aspires to lead our great country at this time. The true test of a man's (and woman's) character is not in the time of 'peace' but in 'adversity'.
Yes, let the DNC come up with a fair and balanced plan to seat these delegates but please, Hillary and her supporters (who are obviously playing to the gallery) should stop acting unreasonably.
Rules are not made to be broken. Isn't that a value we are trying to teach our children. If we allow the delegates to be seated, what is that saying?
THE ANSWER TO THIS FLORIDA MICHIGAN VOTING MESS IS JUST TO SIMPLY FOLLOW THE RULES...OBVIOUSLY LITTLE HILLARY DOESN'T WANT TO FOLLOW THE RULES WHEN THEY AREN'T IN HER FAVOR AND SHE IS THROWING A TANTRUM OVER IT RIGHT NOW.....SHE'S TELLING ON HERSELF AND SHOWING THAT SHE IS NOT FORTHRIGHT AND HONEST...WHO WANTS THAT FOR A PERSONAL QUALITY IN A PRESIDENT?........
This is totally wrong. Adults, politicians, no less, are acting like children.
MI & FL made their bed. They should sleep in it. End of the story.
Reversing the ruling flies in the face of the other 48 states who followed the rules.
Shame on the DNC.
This just shows Hillary's leadership ability. What happens the next time it is not convenient to follow the rules? "Well last time we got away, thanks to Hillary". This is just self serving leadership by Hillary! We had 8 years of that already.
I'm an Obama Supporter first and foremost. However, in all fairness, both names were on the Florida ballot and neither campaigned in Florida. Though it was probably won by name recognition, Clinton's arguement for Florida should stand. Which sucks! Michigan is a different story. Her "victory" and arguement is silly at best. True, neither campaigned here and voting still occured. Problem is noone elses name was on the ballot and further more, most of the people who knew that the person they wanted to vote for would not get their vote simply didn't vote. That "uncommitted" or whatever it was was only a fraction of the poeple who didn't want to vote for Clinton. The issue was people didn't want their vote to be meaningless. Then I was all for Edwards (whom I believe should have been the one facing bush in '04, not Kerry), but was under the impression our delegates would not be seated according to the rules laid before the primary season. To allow Michigan delegate to be seated according to a primary where one candidate (breaking the rules) won, and the other did not not even have his name on the ballot would be disheartening to those who truly believe in the Democratic party. Revote or don't seat them at all.
Altorian
Go on democrats unite.... third Bush term is unbearable.... we don't need another war!!!
Whether it is in sport, school or politics, some people do not play by the rules. Hillary agreed to the rules earlier in the year and now she wants to change the goalposts.
Unfortunately, Hillary has made a conscious decision to put herself before the party. Perhapes she should look at Mitt Romney's example and drop out for the sake of the party (the Republicans are better at uniting).
Please Hillary, for the sake of your party, your country and the world, unite the Democratic Party!
Why aren't the rules the rules. Should other states no change their rules in light of what's now happening? What about those that didn't vote in Michigan and Forida because they knew and understood their votes wouldn't matter under the rules at that time. Aren't they know not represented?
This is like everything else in life, the rules don't get changed once the game has started!
What a sham and complete waste of money and time. It doesn't matter what the DNC decides today. If Hillary doesn't walk away with everything, she will fight, appeal, and drag this on to the convention. She has too much pride to concede and will do anything to win...with no shame. How come everyone is bowing to this monster?
Would you please address ALL THE RULES that were broken, not just those in Florida and Michigan. There was also a rule that anyone (Barack Obama) who shows ads in those states would be totally stripped o their delegates So what about that rule? He did run national ads that appeared in Florida.
Barack,
You think you're fooling people into thinking that you have the political skills to win a general campaign or the qualifications to be President of the United States, but you're not.
Even now, with what little any of us really knows about you and your short and all-too-insignificant political career, you're only fooling a little less than half the Democratic Party.
If the Party makes you the nominee, it would be a gamble at best. (I won't even say what it would be at worst.)
You're smart enough to know that your candidacy was way too premature and that going with you would be a gamble at best and could potentially destroy the Democratic Party as a result of you losing in November. But, then again, you've never let anything else come before you and your own advancement (see your unethical behavior in using the rules to cut your Democratic competitors out of the race for state Senate in the 1996). So I guess you can care less about the Party or the country.
Well, the rest of us–those who see you for what you are, and those of us who have yet to get over their crush on you and see you for what you are–DO CARE.
And you should be ashamed of yourself.
HILLARY CLINTON '08
PLEASE DON'T LET HILLARY ***STEAL*** OUR STATE'S DELEGATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone was intending to play by the rules set forth by the DNC, it was HRC that is now playing dirty.
...how can anyone ever trust her in any decision???
Florida should stand as is. Neither campaigned there and he lost. Michigan should have a new vote paid for by the DNC because they are the one's who screwed this thing up. I also feel that the Super delegates should pull all there endorsements for either candidate until they can resolve this issue and then endorse the strongest candidate. They should at least endorse the winner of there state. These super delegates should be looking at how there state voted and follow there lead. If they would rather take this away from there voters , then the voters of there state should vote for there candidate in other ways. Either by writing there name on the ballot , ( which would be a wasted vote ) or switch parties and show them how it feels to be ignored and vote for the Republican candidate ( John McCain ). I and my family will do the latter and switch parties for this election and many more if they can't fix this party. NOBAMA Go Hillary or give my family John McCain
Well if Hillary can get the rules changed in her advantage and count the votes she thinks are in her advantage then Obama should start yelling for affirmative action for white house jobs not just privet sector jobs that way we won't have to count anyone's vote, and he will still win! Why not if its good enough for all the other job positions in the country way not the white house?
hillary is a liar, and a panderer, just like bubba........ she has nothing to lose by causeing decent in the ranks, it is what the clinton's do best. both agreed to the rules. things went south for hillbilly, soooooooooooooooooooooooo, change the rules. bake some cookies hill.
Here we go again, another canidate trying hard to cheat their way into the white house. Her and Bill will do anything to be back in. ITS SAD.
These Clinton supporters want her to win because she will be the first female president and for no other reason. She can't say or do anything wrong in their eyes. Not her sniper fire lie, her pedophile pastor or her campaign fraud investigation will deter them. Oh I forgot the media is not covering her pedophile pastor or the campaign fraud investigation because this is Clinton News Network (CNN). I dare you to print this!
Call me a cynic, but I doubt this will end today. I feel that the Clintons will continue to manipulate the system and use their loyal supporters to get the Democratic nomination. At the Convention, all delegates from Florida will be seated proportionally, on a 1-1 basis. As far as the the "Putin-esque" vote in Michigan, where the Clintons were the only ones shown by name, the Clintons will get all of those votes and "uncommited" will count as zero.
Many of the superdelegates will move to the Clintons, for one of several reasons. A lot of angry Democrats will stay home or vote Republican. The Clintons will win the nomination and the Democrats will lose the election. The Democratic Party will be badly damaged, and McBush will start moving his furniture into the White House on January 20th.
I doubt CNN will even post this since I am pro Clinton, but here goes. I don't care about the DNC and their agenda. The voters are being punished and they were not the ones to change the date. If this nonsense were resolved correctly from the get go, Hillary would have won Florida handily, and thus gained momentum. momentum is the crucial point. It is momentum that helped Obama , and momentum would have helped Hillary. But it is too late now for momentum. The voters are being penalized for the acts of others. Why is the DNC so hellbent at sending a pathetic liberal left wing nut to the general election when he doesn't have a chance on hell of winning. The republican machine will chew him up. They have gone after Hillary for ten years and she is still standing. Obama will be taken down. I, along with many many other Democrats will hold my nose and vote for McCain over Obama, because Obama is a pathetic radical racist. CNN has also contributed by offering their bias for Obama. I don't get this whole phenomenon with Obama. He has no credentials or substance. Anyway, if you guys want him so bad, and you may get him, be prepared for four more years of Republican rule. At least McCain is a patriot who served his country. I can vote for him.
This is in fact a case of changing the goal post in favor of a player.
If all this could be happening within the democrats in USA, why is America coming in to talk to poor underdeveloped countries like Boma, Zimbabwe, Kenya etc. If the Clintons use their incumbency to change the rule, twist other Americans arms to get and retain power then we should leave for Christ sake Mugabe of Zimbabwe alone.
The Iron Lady of US, thank God you're not from Africa or Asia, you could have made the poor Bill that you're dragging on the mud a life president since you were just fronting him while in control.
Poor Bill, we understand what you're going through but God will see you through this mess I a short time
AS YOU CAN TELL BY MY BLOG NAME I AM AN IDIOT!!!!
I ALSO HAVE TO SCREAM EVERY TIME I POST BECAUSE I LIVE IN A INSANE ASYLUM AND PEOPLE ARE WALKING AROUND SCREAMING AT THEMSELFS!!!!
I REALLY KNOW THAT HILLARY IS A LIAR AND A CHEATER!!!!!
AND OBAMA WILL WIN AND BE THE PRESIDENT!!!!!!!
BUT I LOVE HILLARY.....SOMEBODY HELP ME!!!!!!!!
GO Hillary !!! Hillary in 08 !!!
Split them 50/50 and move on for hell sakes.
It is lugubrous to see how controversial messiah Clinton is managing to imagine that she would be the nominee!If Obama was in her position,i believe he wouldn't even get a breather.He would have been bundled out,and no one would ever raise an eye brow.But the truth is;it is too late to halt Obama now.Just too late.Whoever emerges as the democratic nominee,will be the next American president.
This ain't rocket science folks! The rules at the beginning of the game was FL and MI "would not count for anything". The nation has voted. Now, HRC wants to change the rules to say that FL and MI count. No way, my dear.
There are only two options:
1) enforce the rules and DO NOT seat the delegates
2) seat the delegates but DO NOT allow them to impact the nominee in anyway whatsoever (50/50 split on delegates and popular vote)
Anything else equals a split party and a loss in November!
Hillary won both states and should be given the delegates due to her.
The Democratic Party needs to take a long, hard look at itself, especially the party leadership. It may be time to clean house.
The fact that Clinton signed a pledge in support ot the cancellation of the florida and michigan votes ealier on , and now trying to reverse it to her own advantage potrays her as something of a political chamellion that should be distanced and closely watched.
The integrity of the democratic party , its rules and that of its officials is at stake. The world is watching!!
hope hillary sticks by her word, when she has to bow out, that she works hard for obama to win the election for the top honor of our great country
it is a Shame to hillary .she is being desparate. lets wait and see
There undoubtedly will be a solution that provides for seating of delegates from Michigan and Florida; however, Sen. Clinton and her supporters should understand that there must be a penalty for ignoring the previous agreement accepted by both candidates. Rules cannot be changed as the primary season draws to a close merely because they no longer are favorable to the circumstances of your candidate.
If DNC Comittee would follow the rules then the problem could solved easy: both candidates signed agriment about Michigan and Florida. Comittee have to follow decision made before by party and this agriment. But Clinton now changed the mind. Party bosses have to say her: This is over rules!
Instead of this they with Committee members taking sides. This mess happen because part of this group like yo push ahead Clinton. They were ignoring own obligation to play by rules. What is their real interest? Such a shame!
Just let the spoilt lady have her way now! It will not affect the outcome. If Clinton wants to follow old style soviet "election" processes – and claim victory when she was the only one on the ballot, so denying Obama a single delegate from Michigan, her non democratic hypocrisy will be exposed. The super delegates will flock to Obama and end this farce.
The "blatantly racist" comments spouted by Howard Dean at the top of his speech were mostly against whites by AA and their supporters! Americans will not be fooled by Dean and his "unity" ravings.He should have stepped in long ago and stood up for Clinton because of the extreme bias of left wing media and democrats.
I am furious about this closed session, after it was announced the meeting would be open and televised.
I am also furious that ANY meaning is being drawn from the MI and FL primaries. Hillary didn't win either one. No one thought those primaries would count. It isn't a question of counting the votes cast because more important are the votes that would have been cast if the citizens had thought their votes would eventually be counted.
This is a travesty. I've been voting Democratic for 40 years, and I am fed up.
Obama's people said "he followed the rules" yet he did have ads in Florida. They are supposedly excusable because they were "national buy", but I don't buy that–TV shows and commercials have been removed from limited markets in the past because they were offensive to certain communities. His campaign made no effort to exercise that option, nor did they simply remove the ads nationally for a brief time. It was hardly an innocent move.
As for removing his name from the MI ballot, that was not required in the rules nor in the pledge the candidates signed. It was done at the last minute and certainly appears to be a political rather than a noble move.
This is a mess. You have to follow the rules or everyone will be casting a vote after New Years.
Why doesn't someone just play the video clip from way back when, when Clinton agreed that the votes shouldn't count? Story over. She is back tracking because she is losing, and a sore loser. She is pathetic.
She thinks she is owed the presidency. America is TIRED of the Clintons. Look forward people, not back...
I think Billy said it best "Jesse Jackson ran a good campaign in 84 and 88". Meet his wife, the Jesse Jackson candidate of 2008. She appeals to a charged, dedicated group (women) that see this as a historic opportunity to finally be represented equally.
While a noble sentiment, this is not about men vs women.... its about who is the best candidate and ran BY THE RULES AND WON.
That is clearly NOT CLINTON. She needs to rule out caucuses, include Puerto Rico, include MI and FL and ignore the delegate system to even stand a chance.
She came in with all the positives. More money, more name recognition, Bill Clinton stumping for her, polls with her in the lead.... and STILL SHE COULD NOT WIN.
Stop trying to change the rules and accept it.
Rules are rules, why not followed them.
Both Obama and Clinton, knew what they were doing when they signed and voted to not count the delegates for MI and FL.. Even after agreeing not to campaign in these states, Clinton slips behind Obama's back and added her name to the ballot in MI. This created a one-sided campaign – no wonder she wants these delegates included. Do you really think, honestly, that this is fair and balanced?
If the DNC wants to include the delegates from both states, it should be done with "open" fairness to both Democratic candidates. This is a mess that could have been avoided had the DNC not wanted to "control" when the primaries were to be held in these states. It is unfair to have only "one" name on the ballot in the State of MI, and Clinton should have been more honest and open to Obama giving him an opportunity to cast his name on the ballot, too. This is and was the beginning of Clinton's deceitfulness to win the nomination and it has been that way since the work "get-go" to get the nomination by changing the "rules" as the campaigning continues.
The question should be – what part of "we will not campaign in the two states and we will not count the delegates because of the Republicians voting to move the date of the primaries ahead of the regularly schedule" that both the Clinton supporters and Clinton, herself, do not understand? A 10 year old child could figure out what that means, and, if that child was in a game against someone else, he/she would be "forced" to abide by the rules. If Clinton cannot understand what she voted for and why she voted, then I question her ability to be a president.
The rules apply to both candidates, and Obama has the right to be counted in the MI primary, even though his name was not on the ballot. Little did he or the voters knew that Clinton would go around the ruling and put her name on the ballot anyway. If the Clinton supporters call this "fair" then I have to ask them what is "fair and balanced" for Obama? Truthfully!
I admire Obama for following the rules and think his honesty and his intergity to abide by the rules deserves some merits. Clinton's lies and deceit should not be honored and if they are, there will be many voters, including myself that will denounce the Democratic party.
It is all a farce to save face for a botch job and rules . Obama has won by the rules of the DNC and not by the rules of the presidential election.
I have never heard in my life that losers get to win delegates. That how Obama was able to pull his tricks.. tail coating Hilary in big states and win states that DNC has no chance to win in the fall.
The general election is based on winner takes it all.state by state. If we follow this rule, Hilary is best candidate to get the nomiation.
It is best for Hillary to run as independent candidate..She will win the election. SHe will chip away from all the beleivers ..and bring "REAL CHANGE" to the process.
Hillary shoud not go back to the SENATE and bow to all these ungrateful, sexist friends of her.
SHe is above all these..loser at the DNC
IF not, MC Cain yo got my vote
There's precedent for reducing the delegations by 1/2, seems pretty cut and dry. So the big problem is........ The popular vote lie: Clinton wants votes to be counted from elections that didn't. She campaigned in both states counting on Party Insiders to rewrite the rules for her in the end. We'll see if she gets her way....
After thought:
Nobody thought the Democratic primary system was totally flawed until the people elected some one unexpected. If anything Obama's nomination proves that the system ISN"T totally corrupt.
I wish America would wake . Do we want another President who does not play by the rules like the one we have now.Hillary has called for protest on the 31st , she disagrees with ever solution that has been made, all though she calls herself the candidate of solutions.Obama called for his supporters not to turn the DNC rules committee in to a circus. He has acted more like a President than both the Bush's and the both the Clinton's ever have.Hillary is like George a great divider.
A Democrat for America Connie from Indiana
Do all the people involved in the descision regarding Florida and Michigan understand the intent of the rules. Is there some that subjectively interperet them for their own cause. I would think that the rules would have been written to minimize conflict and subjectiveness and allow for objective descision making. Make one. Please, quit with the rule bending, that is what got the country into the current mess it is in right now.
will a CLINTON supporter who SAYS COUNT ALL THE VOTES please explain how not counting the undecided in michigan who are voters who want there votes counted????????hOW IS THIS COUNTING ALL VOTES ALL VOTES SHALL COUNT BUT NOT 1 voter who suupportes MR. OBAMA votes should count ..Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth ...The will of the people or your will???
funny..... they dont have anything else to do....
Clinton would do anything to get that nomination... "The DNC sanctioned Michigan and Florida by excluding them from representation when the party nominates a candidate at the August convention" and hillary agreed ..... and now... because she s looooosing.... she plays is as if she really cares for the peoples' vote...... she is flipping.... as usual..... i hope that the DNC will manage to solve this problem once and for alllll..........
A battle over rules and votes. This is how American's change 'Business as Usual'. The old Washington grid lock has trumped the politics of hope and one America.
Sad.
HRC SAID THAT IT DIDN'T MATTER WHEN IT CAME TO THESE 2 STATES. NOW SHE SHE IS ACTING LIKE A KNIGHT IN SHINING GLORY. HER ACTIONS SPEAKS FOR HER - "DO ANYTHING TO WIN". WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE HIGH ROAD AND GIVE HER CREDIT FOR BEING LIKE A LEAF IN THE WIND. NO MATTER WHAT SHE DOES AT THIS POINT SHE STILL LOSES. NOW IT IS UP TO THE PARTY TO GET TOGETHER AND WIPE OFF THE MUD FOR THE REPUBLICANS. WE KNOW NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS AT END OF THIS DNC MEETING, HRC IS GOING TO PUSH ON. THAT IS JUST THE CLINTONS MINDSET. HER "KITCHEN SINK" MENTALITY
IS HER DOWNFALL. NOT THE PARTY, NOT HER SUPPORTERS, BUT, HER'S AND HER'S ALONE.
The fact that there has to be a committee meeting to determine how to penalize Michigan and Florida when it was very clear that they disqualified themselves from participating in any fashion in the nominating process makes me want to crossover to the dark side of the aisle (republican). Hillary Clinton and her kool aid club are behaving like spoiled children that won't take NO for an answer. I know, you clintonites won't EVER vote for Obama. Yes we know you plan on writing Hillary's name on the ballot in November. Grow up you morons. She's done!
GET REAL! MICH.&FLA. SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF ALL ELECTRIAL RIGHTS BECAUSE THEY CROWED UP FRONT AND GOT CAUGHT AND SENT HOME. THIS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES A CHEATER.
Who is going to speak up for the White Water cover up that wasn't resolved ?
Rules are rules. Hillary signed on to them just like everyone else in the beginning. She only cares about this now because she needs these votes to win. Do you think she'd be dangling the promise of statehood to Puerto Rico if she didn't need the votes? No. This is all political pandering at its worst. I wish all the Hillary supporters could see that! Obama has integrity! Don't punish him for following the rules of the party! It was a good fight, but let's end this now and get our party united!!!
I thought the rules were not to campaign in Michigan and Florida, but there was no rule stating that names needed to be off the ballot. From what I hear, the candidates were not supposed to campaign in Florida, according to the rules, but Obama aired commercials in Florida anyways. Seat the delegates based on election results, if Obama is the inevitable candidate, what's the problem with counting the delegates according to the results? We have rules at my work, but we adjust consequences on a case by case situation. Rules are rules, but they are not the be all end all.
Long Live Democracy, Long Live the Democratic Party
There is no reason not to believe that the DNC Rules committee members will not do the right thing. This is an extraordinary primary for the Democrats. Democrats have two excellent candidates, but only one can be the nominee. No one who thinks objectively, at this point of time, believes that senator Clinton will be the nominee. It's over. Senator Obama is more than likely to be the nominee. The party should quickly put the primaries behind and unite behing senator Obama as the rightful presomptive nominee.
Senator Clinton knows well that the heart of democracy is upholding the rule of law. Florida and Michigan broke the rules and were punished accordingly. It is up to the DNC to adjust the rules and the punishment if it so choose. SENATOR CLINTON AND HER SUPPORTERS SHOULD STOP MESSING WITH THE PARTY'S DECISION and should stop putting pressure on the DNC to favor senator Clinton. Senator Clinton signed the agreement, overtly said back then that she was well aware that votes in Michigan and Florida would count for nothing. How come suddenly senator Clinton wants to re-write the rules to favor herselft? The word for this is selfishness.
Hillary will try to bend and twist any rule (including the Constitution) to benefit her. She ignors the fact that for each vote cast for Obama, there is a vote that is just plain anti-Hillary.
If there is an organization in existence that can completely screw up the golden opportunity that is coming this November it is the Democratic Party.
Why have rules if no one is going to adhere to them?
Just follow the rules; compromise will only result in strife!
What is Hillary really expecting from all this? to be crowned the nominee?
I'm sure right-thinking people are scratching their heads asking the same question and wondering if Hillary is really sane?!
The formula is simple...
The rules were set well in advance.
Everyone agreed on the rules (including Clinton, FL, and MI) ... even if they did not particularly LIKE the timing of the primaries, they AGREED to them.
The consequences for violation were laid out.
These rules were violated.
The consequences MUST be enacted if your rules are to EVER mean anything in the future.
... by seating these delegates, you are DESTROYING your party's ability to maintain internal order.
... and so, you will be effectively destroying your party.
Thank you Florida, Michigan, and Queen Clinton.
Millions voted for Hillary, and now you want to give their voices to McCain? Why? Why you need half-black half-ready president when yuo can get full-ready woman President?
CNN, and blitzer have done all they can to help clinton. Clinton's campaign has cheated it's way through, and seems to be continuing that course. The news media in our country has become mediocre at best. That is not good for America.
There's no fair way to count the votes. If they really want people's voices to be heard, they would just have another primary or caucus. Hillary's lawyer if a freaking idiot.
She truly is delusional!
A Rule is a Rule...i do support Clinton But People this is the fault of the Officals that let the early vote in FL....Lets get them out of office...
It'll be nice when we can finally put this behind us. And to annyone thinking about voting for McSame come Nov because their candidate wasn't nominated, remember the supreme court both gave women the right to choose and appointed Jr prez. With three justices likely to retire in the next term our next president will have a lasting effect either good or bad...
Her madness must not go unpunished! Whatever is she thinking?!
Obama should NOt be left out of the mix..he played by the rules..I cannot even believe this is taking place!! Clinton signed the pledge before the voting. The rules apply to everyone..of course Mrs. THANG was winning then wasn't she. Unfair, unbelievable .The DNC should NOT allow elections to be set up in states who don't follow the rules.. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot.. oh yeah that is fair.. what a mess and what a joke!
This process should be a no brainer. Fl and MI broke the rules. So they should be penalized for doing so. I thought it was funny to read an article on yesterday where Hillary attorneys are saying that Barack should not get any delegates from Michigan because THAT"S WHAT THE RULES SAY ABOUT UNCOMMITTED VOTES.
Hey Hillary attorney, why do you want to ABIDE BY THE RULES OF MICHIGAN AND NOT ABIDE BY THE RULES THAT THE DNC SET FORTH FOR FI AND MI????
Hillary and her backers make this world sick. They want to change the rules when the rules, as is, don't benefit them and keep the rules that do benefit them.
I hope the DNC is smarter than that and will go according to the rules like we all do.
Discussion of what? The geniuses in charge of the Michigan and Florida primaries knew and understood the rules and the sanctions, broke the rules and was subjected to the sanctions.
Hello!
Florida has become the laughing stock of the world.From chads,corrupt election officials,the home of Rush Limbaugh .etc.The schoool system must be horrific when the average voter doesnt seem smarter than a 5th grader.
I don't know what it's going to take for you people to understand that obama does not have the best interest of this country at heart. I have never seen one person create so much hate between people in such a short period of time as obama has. This fool is too dangerous to even think about running this country.
If Hillary Clinton does not win the nominee then I will gladly give my vote to John McCain. He is far, far better than obama.
i love that all the photos of the "protestors" are just of those three sorry looking guys who look like the still live in their mom's basement.
like... all three of clinton's supporters came out to protest.
come on you guys get this show on the road so that we (all true supporters of the democratic party) can rally around our nominee and get ready for McCain.
I think it's unfair to allow Hillary to decide for you which way you're going to vote on this thing. She did not play by the rules so why allow her trickery to make up your mind for you. when a person commits a crime he has to pay for it by serving prison time...those are the rules. If a child acts out in school, his toys or recess priviledges are taken away...those are the rules. If florida or michigan move up the dates of their primaries per the dnc their delegates will lose their seats...those are the rules. both hilllary and barack knew of the rules and agreed to them by signing an agreement just as all did. why is it that she's the only person who doesn't understand or won't acknowledge she signed this agreement?
What a dilemma! On one side you have the DNC, who constructed rules and regulations, agreed by all states, which was followed by 48 of the 50 states. Then, on the other side, you have disgruntled citizens who feel disadvantaged if their votes do not count, yet they blame the DNC for upholding a rule that was broken by their state.
I would support penalizing Florida and Michigan because they are the only 2 states that did not follow the guidelines. What is the point of having rules if nothing happens if they are broken? How fair is that to the people and states who respect the rule? The problem with this is swarms of people will blame the DNC for neglecting their votes, pro-Obama, anti-woman, etc...when they really should be directing that frustration to their state's representatives for pushing the primary date forward.
If Florida and Michigan do not get punished, how fair is it to the Obama campaign, who followed the rules and even took off his name off the ballot in Michigan? It would be like saying "Thanks for following our rules, but even though 2 of the 50 states did not listen, but we won't penalize them."
I was way more interested in this a few months ago. The process is just dragging on way too long to suit me. Make a decision that's fair to both parties and move on already.
It was obvious to everyone with any sense who the noninee would be for the democrats months ago. Lets wrap this up so the party can move on to bigger and better things, mainly winning in november.
Obama's campaign disagrees, saying that this is not reasonable because he followed the rules, took his name off of the Michigan ballot, and did not campaign in either state.
============================
LMAO we all know that Obama likes to create the rules...don't forget how he maniplated his race in Chicago!!!
Obama will never be elected in the General Election!!!
Goodbye Obama and Hello President McCain!!
Run Independent Hillary!!!
The solution to this problem is not easy. Our society or any society for that matter, must have rules in order to exist. When rules are violated there has to be repercussions. They can't allow some maverick groups to ignore ACCEPTED and agreed upon rules and destroy an orderly process..
If a player on a basketball team has been declared ineligible before the season began, the coach can not suddenly put that player in the game in the 4th quarter of the final game. It's ludicrous. For the Clinton campaign to try that tactic at this stage is just as ludicrous but it also gives us a bird's eye view into the character of the candidate. This tactic will lose more supporters for her campaign than gain them.
"I think that people will have to ask themselves those questions, who would be the best president in terms of preparation and readiness and effectiveness, and who would be the stronger candidate. And I imagine that process will begin after the end of the last primaries," Clinton said………………………Clinton keep repeating this as if we the voters have not chosen the STRONGER candidate, HIS name is OBAMA!
Do anyone know what type of position has been offered to Geraldine Ferraro by the Clinton camp, it has to be an position of a life time because there is no way such a person would make themselves look like she has these last few months.
Thank God, Clinton is not our president, we would be in trouble, just think what trouble our Country would be in today, if she had agreed on a decided with another Country, and found it will not work in her favor as she thought, then changed her mind, we would have been a joke to the rest of the Country.
First order of business should be to fire H Dean.
the only way for MS. CLINTON to get the popular vote is to not count any OBAMA supporters in MICHIGAN ,,not my vote in any of the caucus states ,,that the popular vote showed the same results as the caucus,,count my vote with your very biased opinions...by the way im a white ,,54 year OBAMA women supporter also a delagate from my state
The DNC Rules committee are the ones who put these laws in place. Now they are going to break them so that they can get there way and make more money. If they were to follow the laws that THEY put in place for a reason, there would be no issue. Rules and laws are in place to make things cut and dry. When Clinton questions these rules and wants to change them just so she can win the election and we listen and actually consider doing that, that is when this country falls apart and loses it's fundamentals. But I guess that's how the democratic party works...never caring about why there are certain laws in place or what the American people actually believe in. It's just in there nature to do whatever it takes for them to get more money in there pocket. What kind of example is it when you put a rule or law in place and then change it to accomodate your own needs?
I guess it's the Democratic example.
THE DNC SHOULD DISREGARD THOSE PROTESTERS . . . IT'S JUST ANOTHER PLOY BY HILLIARY CLINTON TO MANIPULATE A LOSING CAMPAIGN! THIS IS JUST THE PRIMARY, THEY CAN STILL VOTE FOR WHOMEVER THEY WANT IN NOVEMBER! THEY BROKE THE RULES, THEY SHOULD BE REPRIMANDED. i REALIZE IT WASN'T THE VOTERS FAULT BUT THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT WAS NOT A FAIR CONTEST BECAUSE THE OTHER CANDIDATES WERE NOT ON THE BALLOTS! HOW DO YOU THINK THE VOTERS IN THOSE STATES THAT WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR BARACK OR SOME OTHER CANDIDATE FEEL ABOUT HILLIARY TRYING TO SAY SHE SHOULD GET ALL THE DELEGATES?! MICHIGAN SHOULD BE ALLOCATED 50/50 BECAUSE BARACK WASN'T EVEN ON THE BALLOT. FLORIDA SHOULD BE DIVIDED BY THE PERCENTAGE EACH CANDIDATE GOT. . . AND BARACK WILL STILL BE AHEAD AND WILL STILL BECOME THE NOMINEE!!!!
Thank you Hillary for supporting a circus-like atmosphere. It really shows your maturity. Ex-Edwards supporter for Obama now.
Why follow the rules? Rules don't apply, MI and FL broke them but we've got to Count All the Votes! You've got to Cheat to Win! Why not? George Bush does it, why shouldn't the Democrats/Hillary? Another fine example for children, Cheat to Win, that's how you do it kids!
I don't see what's so hard to understand about this. One of the candidates did not have his name on the freaking ballot in Michigan. Where exactly is the fairness in seating Michigan as is when the candidate was even on the ballot? I can see going ahead and seating Florida. It, too, would be a slightly unfair seating but there is a case for seating it. But to claim it's democratic and fair to seat Michigan as is would be worse than not seating Michigan. That would be a plain in view example of trying to steal an election from the winner at the end. I can't believe folks are that desperate. So many of you blame Obama supporters for following him blindly. What do you call shifting your views of fair play according to the word of your candidate? This is sad. Truly sad.
Go home losers. Obama o8
I thought Hillary agreed initially that delicates from Michigan and Florida should not be counted, and now since she is loosing; she suddenly gets more concerned about the value of vote and people of those two states. I start loosing respect for her how she is getting desperate for power. Guys stick with the rules which are set prior to the start of the game.
There's only one way to keep this fair. The original penalty should stand . They don't count!
The Demcratic party is becoming the joke of 2008! Thanks to Mr. Dean and Ms. Clinton
Hillary should conceed then all the delegates would be seated. It is Hillary that is causing the problem because she won't accept that she has lost! She is just taking advantage of Florida and Michigan and if they did have a new contest in those states the best she could get is a split.
I just can't believe that any of this is being tolerated at any level by the DNC. What about the thousands of people in Florida and Michigan who didnt even bother to vote because we THOUGHT it wasnt going to count. Why was the primary even held in the first place in these states? The DNC must have know it was going to end up in a battle.
The only reason I voted in FL was because there were other issues on the table (like the homestead tax increase). Otherwise I would not have gone out that day. I suspect that the Rep Gov knew this would happen and is having a great time with this.
The fact the Hillary Clinton is pushing this and encouraging her supporters on this is only feeding a fire that should have been put out long ago. Shame Shame on her and the people holding signs to ask to count every vote. Its like saying we dont care about the rules we just want to win. What kind of message does that send to our children. They are pawns in her aweful game.
If her supporters dont vote for Obama and we lose this election it will be her fault and a NO WIN situation as we wont get anything done in WA for 4 more years.
I am just so disgusted with this entire process.
"turned out in droves" stated by Bill Nelson in the meeting this morning.
He must live in an alternate universe!
More lies – From what I've read a lot of voters didn't bother because they knew it wouldn't count. The DNC obviously is run by a bunch of idiots and liars.
I am so glad I'm an independent voter.
Who appointed Clinton's lawyer dictator ? This is the United states of America. The Clinton campaign has gone way overboard in this process. Why have an election ? People are fighting the war Hillary voted for. They deserve a candidate who tells them the truth. They do not need a dictator telling the country that Obama doesn't get any votes from a rigged election.
HRC AGREED to the rules that stripped MI and FL of their delegation. The ultimate Flip-flopper does not deserve to represent our party in November. Give her a bone (seating 1/2 vote delegations from the two rule-breaking states) and let's move on. Supsers should endorse who plays by the rules!!!!
Can someone really tell the truth about all this? Why is there a need for this meeting to be even taking place if the rules were established years ago and all agreed to them? If HRC was in the lead this would not be happening. This shows you that it is not what you know but who you know and HRC obviously has a lot of folks who owe her.
OBAMA 8-13
I fail to see the National Parties fault in this if they are enforcing the rules so plainly broken by the states. Voters in Michigan and Florida need to really get organized to get rid of the people in the respective states who made this choice fully knowing what the outcome would be.
I am sorry you were wronged but, it was at your local level.
This should however be a sign that our system is broken in the primaries. We elect a President with a one day national vote, why not elect candidates the same way?
They all agreed before the primaries started as to what they would do and now Hillary wants to change the rules. It's wrong and everyone knows it but her and her supporters.
Sure they have to fall short, or else they'll appear to be trying to pry this nomination away from Big O' and you and I know, it just aint happening!!!
Leave it Hill, it's ova!
I've said it before and I will say it again. Hillary is acting selfish and is very inconsiderate of the parties and the rules. Now Obama will be chastised by Florida and Michigan voters for not agreeing to seat all the delegates and giving Hillary undeserved and essentially unopposed voted-in delegates in these 2 states. That will undoubtedly hurt the Democrats in the general election in these 2 swing states. I cannot believe Democrats are turning a blind eye to these facts. Thanks Hillary for electing McCain for the people.
why doesnt the democratic party tell it like it is when those 2 states moved up their primary they broke the rules and both candidates agreed to that Hillary thought it was a great idea when she was winning but after she blew the campaign not such a good idea now the primary in both those states doesnt mean much because hoe about the folks who didnt vote because they were told it wouldnt count my finakl thought is its time for the so called super delegates to put hillary out of her misery end this now or maybe the dems are going to blow the best chance they will ever have to win the white house
Hello Neighbours, just to let you know you look like fools to the rest of the World! Only in the USA can a nominee attempt to change the rules because she is losing. Michigan and Florida knew the consequences for having their primaries early and did it anyways.
And as I remember, Clinton agreed the delegates wouldn't be seated when she was winning. Do you think that her sudden concern has anything to do with those much needed delegates???
What a Gong Show you have let this turn into!!!
Isn't this all about INTEGRITY????
The "rules" were broken – blatantly. No two ways to put it. They, Florida and Michigan, were even pre-warned specifically what would happen if they so chose to ignore the posted rules that the party lives by. RULES ARE WHAT OUR SOCIETY MAINTAINS ORDER WITH, also called "laws," but in this case not criminal laws. Rules of civil order, that seperate our society from "anarchy."
For once, Howard Dean has the moral "high ground" on this matter. If you can't enforce your party's own rules,,,,, then the party has no "honor" or integrity.
Both candidates, were informed of the party's actions, and were asked to sign a pledge to honor the party's enforcement of it's own rules. BOTH CANDIDATES "SIGNED" THE PLEDGE. Now if the candiates had any sembelence of "honor," they would maintain that pledge to the bitter-end. Regardless of their own standing in the primary voting. This is the point of INTEGRITY.
Now one of the candidates finds that she has an advantage over their opponant, and they don't take their name off of the Michigan ballot,,,,, there by leaving a named candidate on the ballot, just in case someone actually votes in Michigan, even that they, the voters, know the votes will not count..........WILL NOT COUNT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Yet they vote, and now the candidate who "broke" their pledge, want to tout that they have "WON"
GOD its over OBAMA won,Im sick and tired of this. they want change these rules until this lady called billary win. Look, if obama is not gonna be the nominne i smell huge,wild bad bad riots inDenver this coming August.
Don't count the votes at all! Rules are rules and many times are not popular but there are no excuses for changing the rules to pacify anyone!
Both Fl and MI knew what the rules were and decided to ignore them. Well...TS folks You disenfranchised yourselves! Like it or not!
Unfortunately there is no good solution. If they seat the delegates as voted they will be in essence setting a precident for future states to break the rules unpunished. This is not an option. The votes as they were cast are not true anyway because the candidates were not allowed to campaign. This was a huge disadvantage for the relatively unknown Obama. My big problem with this situation is that it would not be a problem if Hillary Clinton did not beat the drums and get everyone worked up about it simply because she needed the popular votes so she can make some ridiculous argument that it somehow matters. It does not matter if she wins the popular vote by a landslide because the rules go by delegates. If the system is bad then it needs to be changed for next time. Both candidates new the rules before they started and they both need to live by them. I think we all know perfectly well how much drum beating Hillary would be doing for Fla and Mich if Obama had won them instead of her. ABSOLUTELY NONE!!! She only cares now becasue she needs you or she would not have signed the agreement that the votes would not count and not to campaign. She did not know she would need to USE YOU! Wake up people and choose the honest candidate who has followed the rules and acted like a President. Thank you for reading. Obama08
Hillary's Rovian attempt to steal the election.
Clinton / Lewinsky '12
I am watching Florida Senator Bill Nelson's argument to seat the delegates from Florida. He makes me sick. I plan on voting against him and his biased behavior. Clinton supporters are as disillusioned as Hillary and Bill are. You folks lost, deal with it!
I'm certainly not an Obama supporter, in fact I'm not even a Democrat (I'm not a Republican either), but from the sidelines the arguments by Hillary Clinton's campaign certainly seem ridiculous. Many posters on CNN seem to be saying that if the vote that took place in violation of the rules is not counted that they will vote completely against their interests in November. I really can't imagine a more ridiculous course of action.
I also can't wrap my head around the illogic of the DNC signing up to a set of rules, all of the candidates agreeing to them, and then simply saying after the vote has been held without all of the candidates being given time to campaign there (or even have their name on the ballot) that the vote will count as it stands. Any Clinton supporter who urges that course of action is making nothing but an emotional argument.
Try a novel approach and follow the rules you made rather than craft some "halfsies" do-over– no delegates seated, no votes counted, millions of Americans hosed over by the "progressives".
I guess queens don't have to follow the rules, even if they agreed to the rules . And since hillary sees herself as a Queen, rules don't apply to her.... only to others who aren't as royal or elite as she is .
oh sad america!you are still a country full of racism as back at 19th.so many whites wanted to prevent a black man to win the nomination or at least diminish his chances in general elction.
Only Hillary could win this way and walk away with a smug smile on her face. If she is not the most immoral, polarizing, egocentric and selfish politicain I have ever seen in my 55 years, (Bar none) I don't know who is. She makes Nixon look good.
If anyone thinks she would go on to win the general election and govern effectively you are gender crazy.
Watch how quickly she drops the loyalty to all the women who are working so hard for her. She'll take from you and walk away with a smile as she would do to the Democratic party.
"Democrats' late night session falls short....."
Not surprising......maybe a few of those little blue pills would help.
It wouldn't be fair to switch the rules now which would penalize Obama, who abided by the rules in Michigan and Florida in their primaries.
Anything other than a 50/50 split in Michigan is completely unfair. Why bother with a democracy if you can't follow rules???
In a boxing fight in which one fighter is so pumelled, with swollen blood-dripping eyes, always staggering from the floor, but refuses to give up the fight, the referee has the right to step in and stop the fight or disaster will happen.
It's understandable that the Clintons – because of their name recognition may consider it an affront to be easily defeated by a relatively newcomer to the political scene. For this reason, they will want to show that they are "tough" but it gets to a time when preserving an enduring legacy overrides all other considerations.
They will be highly respected if it's perceived that their actions did not destroy the party but actually solidified it. This can be achieved if they gracefully exit this protracted campaign when it has become obvious that the possibility of their capturing the nomination is elusive.
Who will not call them heroes when they channel all their resources to support the obvious nominee (Obama) who is well-positioned to capture the White House?
By listening to their so-called "supporters" who want to fight forever, they are feasting with the devil who wants to steal their legacy away.
Clintons, listen to your supporters who are saying: you've fought a good fight – well done. These have good intentions toward you.
I suggest that everyone in the DNC meeting take a few minutes and be very still as they seek inner guidance for settling the Florida, Michigan matter. Seek for what is best for all concerned and then follow through in a harmonious manner. There is a right solution for this and if they will do the right thing, it will be revealed to them. Most of all, they should put aside petty differences and seek for harmony and that which is right and good.
You gave Obama's case a one-sentence paragraph; you also said the two rogue states "were penalized," past tense, as though they've already suffered some sort of penalty for flaunting rules they'd agreed to follow. Your bias is clear; I hope you're not too saddened when Obama comes out of this as the nominee.
Hillary Clinton just "can't" believe that she is not going to be president. I mean, after all, SHE is Bill Clinton's wife. She thinks we should just give it to her on that basis alone. And, to be beat by an African-American, well . . . . she doesn't mind patronizing minorities, but to elect an African-American to the highest office in the land when we have the opportunity to get screwed by yet another Clinton? She is a racist, who would pay Uncle Tom very well, and even refer to him "affectionately," but would always keep him subservient to "Miss Hillary."
Clinton shouild step down for Obama, She is only trying to destroy her party.
If those idiots, and I am an avid Democrat and supporter of the DNC. But if those idiots take away even 50% if the delegates, I will not support the DNC in November.
I am a Florida resident who takes voting VERY seriously .I had nothing to do with the decision to advance the date of the primary so why should I be penalized for the stupidity of others?
The votes in Florida were just as fair as a Caucas , so give them as they are. obama campaigned in Florida by putting adds on TV so he acutally broke the rules anyway.VOTE HILLARY THE BETTER CHOICE!!!
I don't think they should be allowed to be seated at all. They were penalized for holding early ballots. It is not fair because Barack Obama kept his name off Michigan ballots . He did everything he was suppose to do, and now we have Hillary Clinton whining like a ousted child, because she wants the votes it is the only way she thinks she will com out ahead.
Leave it be. It is not fair.
This is all going to end in very bad taste and the whole process is going to make the USA look even worse than ever.
The DNC will pander to HRC as most of those "high up" in the DNC did not expect or want Obama to be the nominee. At the time, no one was worried 'cos HRC was ahead. Now those in power in the DNC see the FL and MI case(s) as one last chance to help HRC over the top, which is what was "planned" and "expected" all along – her being the nominee that is.
Somehow, HRC is going to be "given" the nomination in spite of being beaten and it'll all be made to look "right" and "legal" following a new interpretation of the "rules".
Obama is the USA's best hope to move forward and from the brink of falling into a very dark period but he'll be ousted by the more "powerful" and the world will look on and groan and laugh (maybe) and loose even more respect for a once all-powerful nation.
Oh how the mighty fall. Not just Clinton, McCain, Obama but the USA as a whole.
Sad, but the whole world still looks on with a little hope and faith.
once again, the media FAILS to recognize the fact that hillary herself is just as much to blame for the disqualification of florida and michigan's delegates! this is due to the fact that she signed an agreement stating that they would not be counted if the states broke dnc rules. so everyone in these states who views hillary as his/her savior needs to understand that she's doing it simply to win. period.
Would someone please tell me HOW Clinton's supporters can justify a demand to seat all delegates in Michigan and Florida when they know that Obama followed the rules and the voting was skewed? What is wrong with these people? What is wrong with Hillary? Either you agree to follow DNC rules or you donot. Don't these people see the unfairness in this? Is this how ethical we can expect a Clinton to be? It does not matter how you win but just win no matter what! The DNC should be rewarding Obama and his people for following the rules and not backing down at the last minute. This is the exact way we misdiscipline children. We say one thing, lay out the consequences and then back down when the howling gets too loud.
What wusses the DNC has become!
Florida s/b cut to 50% and let Clinton have her delagates... Obama gets his and Edwards. The uncommitted votes in Michigan go to Obama and 50% are seated [or each = 1/2 vote]. Throw in all of the Superdelagates and their mommas and Clinton's still in Obama's rear view mirror. Let's get on with the Party. Nice try Hill.
Speaking of the media. They do nothing to dispel the myth that somehow Senator Clinton did not follow the rules regarding the Primaries in Michigan and Florida. The rules were no campaigning. Period. Obama fans claim constantly that she has somehow done something wrong by keeping her name on the ballot in Michigan. That was not against the rules! She along with a few others did nothing. Obama, Edwards and whoever else specifically had to remove their names. She was smart, give her credit. In Florida, all were on the ballot. Why didn't they remove their names from that ballot? Obama had ads running, that was against the rules but you never hear people say anything about that. Clinton held a speech AFTER the polls closed. People who were going to vote did, note the numbers. Those didn't and probably weren't going to.
Obama 's people claim that people had to get to know him. Believe me Clinton has had no big advantage in name recognition over Obama in Michigan, Florida or anywhere else. She continues to struggle to separate herself from being Bill Clinton's wife rather than Senator Clinton running for President on her own right. Something most Obama fan don't give her credit for.
so much hue and cry now from Clintons followers but where were they also all these months after Hilary signed to say the votes WOULD NOT count when Hilary never cared if the votes were counted. Its only once she started losing and crying and having a childish tantrum wanting them that her followers decided they also were suddenly robbed of their votes. People if you cared so much where were you months ago when the agreement was signed???? Obviously off like Hilary having selective amnesia.
One thing is BLAREINGLY Clear about this whole thing.
The only reason why these people are doing this is to help Hillary. ALL they want is Hillarys votes to count. NONE of Obamas and NO arguments at all about Obama Voters who did not get to vote for him. This is ALL A Hillary Clinton exercise 100%
Voter supression and the supression of voter choice were consequences of the DNC rules committee decision that the primaries of Florida and Michigan would not count. So the results of these primaries were not fair and representative of the people of either state. The delegates should NOT be seated based on the 'tainted' results of the primaries. This is not fair to any of the voters in our country.
You cannot 'count every vote' when you cannot account for votes that were supressed.
The democratic leaders in Florida sold out their primary for the sake of getting a paper trail for future elections. That was wrong. That was a violation of the rules and it was a trade that they should be held accountable for. The paper trail was important but it should have been fought for... I am angry that the democratic leaders do not own any responsibility for what happened with Florida.
No delegates should be seated based on the tainted primaries.
The rules committee should stand by its initial ruling. It had too many consequences to be undone.
Find a way to seat the delegates for the sake of party unity that IS NOT BASED ON TAINTED AND UNREPRESENTATIVE PRIMARIES.
I don't think they should be allowed to be seated at all. They were penalized for holding early ballots. It is not fair because Barack Obama kept his name off Michigan ballots . He did everything he was suppose to do, and now we have Hillary Clinton whining like a ousted child, because she wants the votes it is the only way she thinks she will come out ahead.
Leave it be. It is not fair.
What's interesing is that the Democrats do their dirty work behind closed doors, and then have a dog-and-pony show where they can feed the results to their rank and file party members.
STick to the Rules the RULEs are the Rules!!! Clinton agreed and so did ALL for supporters in that room!!!
Now she cried fowl and is trying to use this to look like the defender of democracy. IF you were ahead, Clinton, you wont even remember that Florida and MI existed. Shame on you and your supporters in that room saying it should be counted as is and ZERO to Obama. You shameless lot!
Next time, fight at the begining when they wanted you to sign and agree. Stop wasting the nations' time. You old bag
During the debate, didn't Senator Jordon, parents also tell her she is always to follow the rules?
Obama played by the rules. We teach children rules are rules not made to be broken. Clinton needs to live with the decision.
She and Her husband can no longer expect to have their way. They have not always played by the rules and got away with it. This must end now.
Go Obama!!! Our country needs change. Now is the beginning.
Why on earth should hillary be rewarded for NOT going by the rules?!
Once again she cheated and now wants to somehow win based on the bogus numbers she "thinks" she has. Obama followed the rules, took his name off the ballot in Michigan as required, she did NOT, he did NOT campaign in Florida, she did! If anything, she should be punished! She has turned into, or maybe always has been, the most egotistical, dishonest, self entitled, nasty, whining witch and IF they allow her to somehow steal the nomination from Obama I think the Democratic party will lose thousands of members and there would be a revolt in this country. The longer this goes on the more hillary and her crazy supporters divide the party and the country! BE GONE HILLARY!
Obama did not follow all the rules. The rules did not require him to take his name off the ballot and he did run ads and post signs in Florida. -Count ALL the votes do not apportion any votes to Obama that were not specifically cas t for him. You cannot make a judgement about who voters would have voted for if the circumstances were different.
The DNC should never havbe made these rules they were only trying to "fix" the race for Obama. It back fired. WRITE IN HILLARY!
these bozos are fake democrats dispatched by karl rove and his neocon masters, to manipulate the election process.
If Hillary somehow manages to pull off getting the DNC to bend to her will, I will lose all faith in the political process. After George W's 2000 coup in Florida, they should be rising above, not showing that the Democrats are no better than the Republicans. Unfortunately, Hillary has shown herself to be just like the man she is trying to replace... same character, differant stripe. She has her own Carl Rove.
So Howard Dean is mad at the media. So what? I'm mad at Howard Dean–and I'm not even part of the media. TODAY is when the Rules Committee makes decisions; it was not supposed to be decided last night in some backroom deal. Those of us who want to vote for change in November are constantly reminded by Democrats that when we run Congress we don't get anything done, we can't even run our party (if we did we'd say the rules don't change and MI and FL don't get one delegate because they broke the rules), and we cut deals behind closed doors. I am about one day away from going Green Party this year.
How can the Democrat Representatives in the State of Florida ever be respected when way back in 2007 they could have solved this avoidable problem.....Shame on Floridas Reps. Sorry for the voters, HRC and Obama.
Highly doubt that the DNC can make a decision and stick to it; if that were the case, this discussion wouldn't be happening. If this is any indication of how dems plan on running the country; this raises serious concerns. It will help the GOP.
I LOVE how the Clinton Cultists want ALL of the votes in MI and FL counted ... ALL the delegates seated ... when Obama wasn't even on the ballot! Hmmm ... millions of votes to ZERO?!? Don't think so Clinton Cultists! It's not going to happen. Even MENTIONING that fiasco of an idea just shows how low you people will stoop to SLEAZE your way into the White House! You Clinton Cultists are just as bad as Rove!
Obama leads Clinton by 202 delegates. He needs 41 more to clinch the nomination.
what else is there to know.
It's clear the people have spoken. Obama is the choice.
Fl and Mich broke the rules. AND Hillary signed the agreement not to seat these votes.
its just because she is losing.
Obama'08
I don't understand it. When I give my children rules, if they break them, they get punished. No Ifs, Ands or Buts. The way I see it, rules were described by the DNC that were applicable to all states regarding when they are able to hold their respective primaries. Not all states followed the rules, so, MI and FL were punished, per the DNC rules, for not following instructions. The Democratic candidates were instructed not to campaign there and it was determined that those states' delegates would bear the consequence of the state's actions; they are not being seated at the Democratic National Convention. Plain and simple, my children can understand that. Clinton and Obama understood the rules at the time, not campaining in those states, Obama even removing his name from the ballot in MI. Seemed like both candidates agreed that the state's punishment was reasonable since they broke the rules. Fast forward to today. There is a meeting of the DNC to try and come to a resolution to the issue of seating the delegates from FL and MI. Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but it is just that that confounds me. Now Clinton is crying foul? What, what what! Now there is a problem with the seating of the delegates? I agree, the voters of those states need to be represented. It was not by their design that their delegates are not being seated. I don't see this as punishing the voters, I see this as punishing the institution that BROKE THE RULES. HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND! YES, the DNC needs to determine how best to represent the voters in MI and FL. YES the voters deserve to have their voices heard. But what twisted, backwards thinking country are we living in if we can't agree and acknowledge that the problem was first caused by FL and MI not following the rules? I can't wait for Obama to be elected as our Commander in Chief. He represents everything that I have understood America to be. My father was an immigrant from the Philippines, came to Guam after the war for opportunity. He worked hard for everything he needed. He met my mother and raised 5 kids on a single income. He also managed to make enough money to help the family back in the Philippines. He is living his American dream in Guam. Sometimes I feel that statesiders don't understand that. I feel that a lot of what we in the states have is taken for granted. It seems like everyone is looking for the easy way. It is not ridiculous to dream big. These petty squabbles and potshots we Americans are taking at each other are helping to distract from the issues that should really matter. Sometimes I think we Americans have forgotten what those issues should be. Peace!
Clinton should be ashamed of herself for trying to betray the party's rule which she initially had agreed to. shows she capable of any dispicable behavior and should not be trusted with the us presidency. she lacks integrity, and a desperate power drunk. Bill should also be ashame being a former president and a world leader to be playing these dirty politics along with hillary.
pls, all superdelages should take a position now and knock out this despot of a hillary. otherwise be ready to welcome John to the white house.
Mike.
Florida and Michigan was an issue before the primaries and still is an issue: If anything, what is the rule on those who violate the rule of law? In the event that Democratic rules stipulated that there was not to be primary in those states as aerly as they were held, obviously they violated the stipulated governing law of Democratic party and any body who participated knowingly they wre going against the laid down rules must face the music including the presidential candidates involved who should know better. The candidates must have known better not to have their names on the ballot. No excuse! If leniency is to be applied to sit the delegates, whoever violated these rules by leaving their names on ballot...the ratio should be for violators 1/3 to 2/3 votes for non violators.