We all know it was a "Joe set-up" by McCain campaign and funny enough…how will a true plumber be scared under Obama's tax plan..? McCain said Joe is rich…. and if that is true meaning he his not the plumber McCain was claiming…Can you see something missing here? Trying to set Obama up and use it for campaign gain…that is so ridiculous…If he his president (God forbid) will mcCain set Putin up to win arguements? That is lame

Read this morning that Joe the Plummer is NOT registered to vote. He also believes that America shouldn't have the social security program.

Vote: Obama and the REAL Joe (Joe Biden) '08

We need to ask more questions of Joe Biden. Besides being a war monger he has (along with his son) lined his pockets with cash from preadatory lenders that are headquartered in his state for years (such as MBNA). he's a scumbag pointing fingers at others. the whole lot of these two party candidates are crooks that are bought and paid for by the military-industrial-banking complex. It is time for a viable third party that adheres to the Constitution and not pay it lip service like these two bums are.

If Mccain was trying to make a point with Joe he missed the point. Most of us do not know a plumber who is capable of buying a business making 250,000 dollars no matter how hard they work. Joe stated on GMA that why should he get penalized for working hard and making more money. I doubt just hard work along is going to get him to a position to buy this business. If fact the people in America who work the hardest are the ones who make much less than 250,000 and are the ones who will benefit the most under BO plan. It is time to give the people who work the hardest a break.

That's great Joe—go after the plumbers and you go after the carpenters, electricians, painters, etc:

You're going to ruin Obama if you keep this stupidity up–these are the people who make up the country and make it go—

Back off Joe before it's too late.

This Joe guy told Katie Couric that he doesn't make more than $250K, so he wouldn't get a tax increase under an Obama administration. He spouted republican talking points this morning on MSNBC. He's a republican who's voting for McCain, so I don't see what the big deal is and why he's getting so much attention.

Realize that a plumbing business may bring in 250k but now lets pay our people pay our bills such as supplies gas ect. Joe let me tell you, you would be lucky to make 50k, well looky looky no taxes for you. Wake up people most of us that have small business dont make that much, even when things are good. Although where I come from 50k is respectful salary,

Worthless druvel. If this is the best McMean can do when the economy of this country is tanking for most citizens, we're in worse shape than I thought. Joe the plumber ought to count his lucky stars that he can even consider making a quarter of a million dollars a year. We're become a country of sniveling wimps who cry out at the slightest suggestion that their "entitlements" might be challenged. What was once a proud, dignigied, caring society has succumbed to rampant greed, the beginnings of the downfall of this country as we knew it. I think I'll try the Constitution Party. Or "none of the above." Something's got to change!

Biden is right. I do not know too many plumbers that make $250,000 a year as a business owner. You have to have contracts with multiple companies and also work with the general public. If you are doing that you can afford to pay a little more taxes. Under Obamas plan he wouldn't pay more taxes. If he creates jobs in the US Joe's business would get a tax break. If he provides health care, his business would get a tax break. Even though he would go above the 250,000 mark, he still would get a tax break. Joe the plumber did not understand that and it seems like he was a plant. McCain knew too much about what he said.

Lets be real – Biden doesn't have many people in his neighborhood making less than 1M!

All politicians need to get real with us!

I am a small business man and I cry for the day I will make $250,000 a year. I know I will get there and I know that will be a fairly stable time for me..financially. And I expect to pay more taxes then than I do today.

Question: If letting the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy expire is a "redistribution of wealth" from the rich, then wasn't the original tax cut for the wealthy also a "redistribution of wealth"? If that is the case, isn't letting them expire, simply correcting a redistribution that already occurred?

Comment: Obama supposedly voted to tax people with incomes as low as $42,000 when he opposed making the the Bush tax cuts permanent. Those cuts went primarily to the very wealthy. So, McCain supported giving people with income of $42,000 a $50 tax cut, while giving himself and Cindy a tax cut of hundreds of thousands of dollars? Right? Sounds fair to me!

I LOVE Joe Biden, but he missed it on this one- Joe the plumber is concerned about buying a business and finally making 250K saying he doesn't think working harder should mean more taxes.
The real argument here is how much of an increase in real dollars will these people pay. According to AARP- 121.00 per YEAR! I think at 250K ayear they can afford 10.00 a month in higher taxes- just a guess.

BIDEN BIDEN BIDEN, your failure to understand business cracks me up. Labor Stats show plumbers make $47,350, round that to $48,000. If Joe employs 4 plumbers at $48,000 and 2 apprentices at $20,000 , an office manager at 40,000 and receptionist at $25,000 then he must make at least $297,000 to pay his employees. Now he has to pay himself, lets give Joe a salary of $100,000. His total salary for 9 employees is $397,000. Lets dont forget to mention business costs and insurance. This example of a small businees of 9 employees will fall into your tax hike over $250,000. Joe will have let got of some employees to pay his taxes. I hope nobody working for a small businees votes for socialism this election!!!!!!

Joe Biden–98% of small businesses earn less than $250K in Delaware? I "fact check" does a number on that one!!!

Let's say Joe has his own plumbing business with 8 other plumbers working for him. At wages of $47,350 each that would be total annual wages of $378,000.00 just for his hired help. Mr. Biden, that looks a lot more than $250,000 for Joe's small business. And guess what Mr. Biden–Joe's business hasn't paid any other overhead or employee benefits, or himself–from those profits yet.

We are so ignorant as Americans–to expect any one of these goombas to really make sense when it comes to understanding small busines?

You know Biden, Obama, and McCain have never had a job outside of public service!! Do either one of these idiots have any concept of what it actually takes to start and grow a small business?

McCain's campaign has been littered with desperate P.R. stunts that backfire. I wouldn't be surprised if "Joe the Plumber" was another P.R. stunt, planted by the Republican party. I just want it investigated because, as a line Letterman has used on a previous P.R. McCain stunt: "Something doesn't smell right."

I love hearing from you Vice President Biden. You are so right in your view of this, as I was thinking the exact same thing last night. What is going on with the Republicans and Joe Six Pack and Joe the Plumber. Are all Republicans named Joe now? Anyway, keep fighting Joe. You and Barack are almost there, keep going strong until the election, don't let up now!!

Obama/Biden '08

McCain campaign is fighting a losing battle on this one. If you make more than $250K per year, you are not going to get a lot of sympathy from people making $40,000 a year. Obama can afford to hand Joe's vote to McCain knowing too well for every 1 "Joe Plumber" making $250K per year, there are about 98 "JoePlumber" making under $50K a year that like Obama's tax plan. It goes to show who McCain is fighting for.

Senator… he's not a plumber who makes $250K per year… he's a plumber who wants to become a business owner which would then earn him $250K per year…. but under the Obama's tax plan, why would he want to do that? Why tax the people who have the ability to create jobs? McCain shares your view that everyone needs tax relief, he just wants EVERYONE to get relief. Spread the RELIEF around, Senator, but let WEALTH be earned… that's AMERICA.

And I heard on NPR this morning that after all is said and done, if this guy owned his own business, after dedcuting for the pipe, materials, etc., he STILL wouldn't be close to the $250k unless he was REAL successful. (I should have been a plumber!).

Not only that, but under the Obama health plan, Joe wouldn't have any penalties to pay even if he had "staff" and employees.

YOU GO JOE! (I love CNN and NPR! i wonder how many REPUBs that will vote for Palin (errr…McCain) know what "an NPR" is?! )

Joe Biden is absolutely right. There's no average Joe who makes more than $250,000 a year. If any Joe does that he's a rich Joe and can afford to share his wealth with others. I hope the people understood this very clearly. Greed starts from Joes trying to avoid taxes.

You go Joe. I'm sure the McCain camp will refrute the comment and the democrats will be accused of insulting all plumbers. We are a family of small business…we do not make 250K p/year and we're looking forward to the democrats plan.

Obama clearly mentioned his tax plan which tells person or business get less than 250,000 a year never have an increase in tax. I think Mccain was telling that plumbers making more than 250,000. This is a real joke!

Plumbers dont make more than 100,000 in US. McCain tried to fool the majority Americans by bringing this PLUMBER JOE!

Biden's right – on Katie Couric this morning they did a phone interview with Joe the Plumber, and he admitted that under Obama's plan he would NOT see his taxes raised. for what its worth, however, he's still voting for mccain, basically because he doesn't "trust" obama. hmmmm

obama / biden 08!

joe the plumber is talking about after he purchased the business and then i would hope that he would make more the 47,000 leave the man alone. Is Obama afraid that someone will see through the fact that he is not telling the whole truth about raising taxes!!

What a dummy! The $250,000.00 is what a business would make, gross, before deducting expenses, parts, etc. Why, oh Why do we have such dummies leading our government. That $250,000.00 is not what Joe the Plumber would earn as a personal income. It is what his business would earn and Obama would take away to give to someone else. The Robin Hood theory. If Obama become president and implements this I and many people I know will quit our jobs so that Obama can support us. No incentive to keep working.

Binden out of touch as usual. Joe the Plumber started his small business , so he has other plumber working for and with him. So a plumbing business can make $250,000 or better a year. WAKE UP JOE IT"S 2008!

Why is it no one has picked up on Mccains statement on education? QUOTE ,we need to encourage programs such as teach for america and troops to teach where people after having served in the military, can go right to teaching and not have to take these examinations which or have the certification that some are required in some states.Sorry to change the subject, but are we to allow just anyone to enter our schools with no certification to teach our children? This is insane.

"Joe the Plumber" supports McCain, so do others. Obama made no attempt to twist his arm, misrepresent the facts or manipulate voters as McCain did for the entire debate. The election is not about "Joe" voting against his personal best interests. This election is about common interests, goals, and dreams for America. Nov. 4th is about "Tom, Dick, and Harry" who are tired of Bush/McCain leadership and policies and want the "new direction" that Barack/Biden offer.

You are misinformed if you think a business(small or large) pays income tax on gross revenue. They pay taxes after all expenses and deductions, this is called net income. If Joe Plumber is paying tax on line 43 of 1040 form of $250,000,00 then Joe Plumber is making one heck of a lot of money.

McCain wants to take the money of 95% of americans and give it to Joe. This is nothing more then a welfare hand out, disquised as a tax cut for the rich.

Obama wants Joe to have to make his money the good ole fashioned honest way, with hard work. This will help curb the devestating economic disaster we are in, where the poor get poorer because they are taxed and having their taxes go to help the rich get richer.

I don't think Joe "the plumber" knows the difference between revenue (not taxed) and profit (taxed). Also, Joe "the plumber"'s comments regarding Sammy Davis Jr make it clear that his issues is not taxes, but race.

I can't understand why Joe the Plumber is so scared of a 3% tax increase (provided that he and his company net over $250,000) if he gets better health care, better education for his children, better free trade agreements, more fuel efficient transportation, and more attention to global warming. I think his standard of living would definitely be better under an Obama presidency and more than outweigh the 3% tax increase.

Joe the Plumber is a confused individual. Obama's plan would raise taxes on BUSINESS OWNERS who's own PERSONAL INCOME is over $250,000 a year. NOT businesses who generate more than $250,000 in sales a year. That would be ridiculous, $250,000 is nothing to a small business. I work for a small business and we generate millions annually. McCain's plan is to confuse the American people and unfortunately Obama isn't doing a great job of explaining his plan to the average citizen. Let's face it, if you're making over $250,000 a year you're VERY well off!

I'm not going to lose any sleep over anyone in this country – whether he's an investment banker or a plumber – who makes more than $250,000 a year.

Wurzelbacher has been blessed with pretty good fortune, it sounds like, and instead of wanting to hoard even more money for himself, he might do well to think about giving something back to the country that enabled some of his success.

Hmmmm, I smell a rat. Do you think Mcshame planted this guy but failed to research the average plummer salary:)

Joe the plumber isn't the American who is hurting, Obama isn't the career politician who promises he will make every American happy, because that's not reality, that's the dusty old political strategy. Life isn't fair, Joe the plumber is already living the American dream.

Absolutely right. to think we devoted 30 minutes to talking about a plumber making 250K and no one ever mentioned that it was a complete abberation.

Biden is a idiot. If he had listened right he was going to buy a company with a income of $250,000. That doesnt mean Joe himself will take that in for pure profit. Obviously he has to pay his employees, other bills, etc, etc. Obviously Biden himself needs to take an ECONOMICS 101 to rethink his option!

Yeah, I kind of wondered about that myself. No offense to this particular Joe (the plumber) I wish him all the success in the world, but I don't know many plumbers that make 250k a year…or create tons of jobs for out of work Americans.

Say it ain't so Joe. You are going to tax us don't lie. And please tell me the story about spreading the wealth once more. Please tell me how you are going to tax big business. We need them to release more employees so we can use more of the programs you are going to tax us for..

Not related, but worth mentioning….

Last night in his closing comments and today in his new ad, McCain is critical of the "last 8 years", as he should be. But by stopping at 8 years, isn't he indirectly praising Bill Clinton's presidency? Isn't he saying that if you want to go back to how things were 9 years ago, you need a democrat in the White House? I couldn't agree more! Thanks John!!!

Poor old Joe, only $250,000 a year, how does he get by?

What Biden says is typical of someone that hasn't written a paycheck since 1972, when he entered Congress.

Unless it is a an old time communist society, someone has to own the business that pays the average plumber $47,000, and in a lot of states, you have to be a licensed plumber, too. If you have three or four plumbers in your business, you have to gross at least $250,000 to pay them, and have some money left over for yourself. This is something neither Obama nor Biden understand, or if they do it makes them socialist/fascist dictators.

If you are "spreading the wealth around", you have to STEAL it from somebody else.

John McCain said "Joe, congratulations, you're rich"….I'm starting to think the reason why McCain doesn't like Obama's ideas of putting the tax levels for the rich up to where they were under Reagan – is because he and Cindy stand to lose more money that way. They don't want to pay their fair share. Even Warren Buffet says he doesn't think its right he pays LESS than his secretary in taxes. Does that sound right to you? No one want so make the "rich" suffer for goodness sake – but why do they get all the breaks and regular people get less?

If Joe the Plumber makes more than $250,000 a year after expenses, he's doing it by profiting from the the work of other plumbers he doesn't pay anything close to $250,000 a year. In other words, in addition to the work Joe does, Joe's skimming profits off of the work other people do. Did Joe really earn all that extra cream himself? Should Joe's employees pay the cost of infrastructure that enables them to drive Joe's truck around doing Joe's business, when Joe keeps most of the profits for himself?

This is the argument for a progressive tax: business owners and employers benefit more from infrastructure and other government services than their employees, because they keep the lion's share of the profit generated by their employees' work. Why should the employees share equally in the taxes when they don't share equally in the fruits of their labor?

Oh, I feel so bad for Joe the Plumber. He makes $250,000+ a year. Why doesn't he just shut up and thank his lucky stars that he's not like the other 95% of the country, not making $250,000

A plumber making 250K is possible. You should see the houses they live in and the cars they drive in my neighborhood…
I took a serious interest in plumbing a few years ago when one of them wanted 165 dollars for replacing a broken pipe under my kitchen sink.
A trip to home depot and 20 dollars later for a pipe and wrench and my new hobby was born….

Well stated, Joe. I don't know of any plumbers who make $250,000 a year either. If so, there would be more kids entering these programs post high school…I don't see that happening in my neighborhood.

If Joe the Plumber is able to buy his own business and will make more then 250K, then he's doing really good and I don't worry about him. It's the rest of us who's wages aren't going up along with everything else that I worry about. Joe the Plumber will do just fine if he gets in that tax bracket.

i think Biden is right……i think Obama was set up by the republican..the plumber was sent by the republicans to to boost their campaign…

shame on the REPUBLICANS….

I was very perplexed about this during the debate last night. It seemed to me that again we had words and perception challenges. When Joe the Plumber says he wants to buy a business making over $250,000 does he actually mean true profit meaning dollars that would transfer as income to his tax form or is he talking before business expenses such as insurance, telephone, etc are taken out? I may need to think about the plumbing business if you can make that kind of margin dollars!! 12 hour days are becoming the norm anyhow in service businesses.

Talking about information overload. I'm stuffed with pundits patisan's opinions and attacks. My head is so full of spin i'm starting to think that the media has not really been a help with facts but more of a retail chain selling partisan talking points. Geeze, the people always loose out at the end as big giant corporate elitist groups run the show. well, it is what it is…

so i concluded this after last nights debate.

Obama, i felt made more of a request to voters…essentially saying "believe in my words and trust me to get this country to a better place"

Mccain, i felt made more of a plea to voters…essentially saying "help me to help you to get this country to a better place"

decisions decisions decisions….should i listen to a politician who's asking me to help him to help myself and my country? or should i listen to a politician who's asking me to listen and trust him to help the country?

hmmm, still undecided but i'm getting close. I'll turn off the tv from now til election day and will make my decision.

But then again. Joe the Plumber might be faking it. He may be a diehard Republican, where race is an issue!

Go Joe. It was so frustrating to see McCain completely ignore Obama's explanations last night and instead state obvious mistruths. Just made him look either desparate or just plain stupid.

Anyone notice Ms. Palin, once again, is absent from all the post-debate discussions? NBC commented that she was invited but declined to appear, and I am sure the same can be said about the other media as well. She can only be trusted to interview with Fox, yet we are supposed to put her in a position to meet with heads of state from around the world.

I was saying something similar to my coworkers this morning. I was saying "If I could be a plumber and make over $250k a year sign me up"….last time I checked…Small Plumbing companies aren't hand over fist in $$ and their owners most likely are not making a quarter million dollars a year…McCain knows that less than 5% of Americans make that kind of money. Should the rich be taxed to oblivion? No…but if you make $250k a year…paying another 5-10% on your taxes might mean you have to go from 3 mansions to 2. What a tragedy.

Was "Joe -the-Plumber" planted by the Republicans???

Of course Biden disses "Joe the Plumber"… b/c Joe the Plumber doesn't seem to be on Obama's bandwagon… shocker.

Also, though the mean annual wage for plumbers is $47k a year, I believe "joe's" business involves several plumbers, not just himself, as the "mean income" suggests.

"Joe the Plumber" got a workout from McCain last night, to be sure. Once it turned into McCain's debate "gimmick" it was over for me. That was really all he had, and when he took it to the Rep. Lewis and Ayers route, his goose was cooked. The fact that Obama consistently brought it back to the issues while old dude cooked in his own juices just further confirmed that Obama will be a fine president indeed.
OBAMA/BIDEN '08 & '12
Looking forward to your rally in Henderson, NV tomorrow, Sen. Biden!

he was a GOP plant. Biden's right. no plumber i know makes $250k per year except for "josephine the plumber" and she only made that because she was being paid by the the execs of" liquid plumber" to advertise their product!!

no moose-munch & bunch

obama/biden '08

My thoughts exactly Joe!!!

That would be because various sites are now reporting that Joe is a registered Republican and also related in some way to the Keatings. Don't worry, I'm gathering up the links and info now. That's too bad really because he has some excellent point but if he's shown to be a phony….

I figured he might be the moment in one of his press conferences when he said Obama's plans are "socialist". Do people know what the definition of that word is or how many so-called "socialist" programs we already have.

Socailist is Republican for – FEAR HIM

Break it down fella's. McCain is totally looking for 'that moment' to change the news and to have 'the average joe' amplify how Obama is not really for the 'average joe'. Don't let him get away with it. If he is buying a business, and his salary alone will be greater than 250K, he is not buying a small business. Additionally, if he is indeed going to be running a business that large…let's do some quick math…

If he makes 1Million Dollars, Obama would take him for an additional 50K. Sure. But since Obama is offering 3K in tax credits per American worker he hires, in order to bring that 50K down, he needs to hire some US Workers (16). He will also get a tax credit for 50% of what it costs him to insure those workers. If he buys a healthplan worth 100K he would get 50K in tax credits thereby offsetting his worry of 50K. The list goes on and on. America, don't get caught up in this pettiness. People are whining over nothing.

What makes me nervous, is a guy who is trying to make us believe he is going to take over a business that is going to make him a lot of money can't take the time to review Obama's plans, run the same numbers I just did in about 30 seconds, and realize he is better off with Obama than McCain.

That is, if he is indeed trying to buy the business. Or is it that he thinks he will get famous enough, make enough money off of the interview circuit or hell, even get his own TV show, and then what? Will he complain as a multi millionaire that he is paying too much intaxes?

PS…are we really sitting here trying to get those making less than 250K and those below the poverty line who can't even fathom what 250K is that times are tough for those that make more than 250K? REALLY?????

Joe the Plumber has been on some of CNN's competing stations giving some "interesting" interviews, and if McCain was smart, he'd distance himself from this crackpot ASAP. But I hope he doesn't, keep using the plumber John, it'll be another anchor on you just like Ms. Abuse of Power.

90% Bush + 10% Junk = 100% Loser

I agree. At first, I thought I misunderstood the situation. I guess a single person making over $250k is considered "poor" to McCain, who is a zillionaire.

I don't know any single or married people who are making that kind of money. Where did McCain get the idea that this person is average?

Still love Joe Biden, but I am really sick of Joe Plumber, Joe Six-Pack, and Joe Mama. Stick to the facts – leave the folksy crap to Sarah.

Where I live this tax plan will effect many of the small business owners. We have many mom and pop stores, small one branch realty companies, small machine shops and small mechanic shops. Mr. Biden, you are lying and you know it, just as Mr. Obama is. Thanks but no thanks to your tax plan. Oh, and for your information there are millions of Joe the plumbers out there if you care to look.

THANK YOU JOE!!!!

This is a major point that McCain is missing! If this guy is buying a business that is large enough to profit $250,000/year, he shouldn't be worrying about life right now. People always need plumbers and they aren't going to stop fixing leaky toilets and showers just because the economy is rough. If he was a hot tub salesman, that'd be another thing.

Joe the Plumber makes more than twice as much money as my parents do, and my parents get by JUST FINE. More importantly, when I was young, we did just fine on half as much as they're making now. So why should I feel bad for Joe the Plumber? My wife and I are college graduates taking home about $30,000/year and we're getting by so-so. I would hope a guy like Joe doesn't have tax problems with a quarter million dollar annual income. If so, let me find him and yell at him for being bad with money.

Leave it to Joe Biden to tell the truth while the media, most of whom wouldn't know a regular person if they fell out of the sky, tow the line that some plumber making $250,000 a year is anything but unusual.

Joe the Plumber does not represent the average person.

Joe the plumber is yet another in a series of McCain stunts. The details offered in the debate suggest that this guy's plumber business is more of a dream than reality and entirely not at risk of being a tax liability for whoever this McCain shill really is. This story has to be picked apart, with the fact separated from the fiction. Until such time as the public knows the truth about Joe the plumber, his story is NOT to be trusted as representative of anything but a campaign lie.

“I don't have any Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year that are worried.”

That's exactly the point!!!
This "Joe the plumber" topic by McCain is becoming more and more distasteful.

McCain the same old politics with the same failed policies.

Obama/Biden 2008

This is for HP: To your disliking, Obama might be cool, calm and collected, even flashing a broad smile now and then, but do you notice how straight-faced he is when he gets down to business? These are trademarks of a true diplomat. ARROGANCE gets you into an unprovoked war which in turn claims thousands of innocent lives and leaves permanent scars on surviving loved ones thus breeding more hatred. One reason why loss of life is now waning in Iraq is because some insurgents, it has been said, have been handsomely paid to keep COOL (more money from your pocket). How’s that?

I'm with Joe (Biden). My brother's a carpenter, owns his business and subcontracts work to plumbers all of the time. There is no plumber (even if they own their own business) making any where near $250,000.

This guy has an agenda.

Joe the plumber, has become a running joke because of McCain. Way to treat the voters. I guess McCain thinks all of us voters are here to be made fun of.

I'm with Joe on this one. I am not worried about anyone making $250K a year or more. I am worried about people like me that live their life one paycheck behind.

JOE WAS A PLANT BY THE MCCAIN CAMPAIGN, AND IT BACKFIRED

IN MCGRUMPY'S FACE LAST NIGHT AND FOR GOOD REASON.

MY PARENTS ARE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND EVEN

THOUGH THEY ARE REPUBLICAN, THEY WILL BE VOTING FOR

OBAMA, BECAUSE HIS TAX BREAKS WILL BENEFIT THEM.

ANY SMALL BUSINESS OWNER THAT IS MAKING OVER

250K "AFTER TAXES AND WRITE OFF'S" SHOULD COUNT THEIR

BLESSINGS; THAT OR THEY ARE CHEATING THEIR EMPLOYEES

AND TAKING ALL THE WEALTH THEY ONCE FOUGHT SO HARD TO

OBTAIN.

i was skeptical of this joe the plumber as well soon after mccain mentioned him. how did mccain know about this guy from obama's rally? and mccain kept on mentioning him throughout the debate!

biden was right, no plumber that i know of, even if he owns the business would make that much in a year, after all the business related expenses. granting this guy's for real, if he owns the business, he should know the front, back and middle of the expenses involved, i.e. salaries, travel (gas, truck maintenance, truck purchases, etc.), expenses relating to maintenance of the office (heating, cooling, cleaning persons, etc.). if he gross $300,000 off it, his net should be way below $250,000. therefore, he is in the tax bracket that obama has been proposing.

anybody out there who can correct me?

Would McCain be willing to chat live with "Al the Immigrant", a business owner and IT professional? Yes, I would love to meet with him and "Joe the Plumber" as well.

Joe. You're so full of Koolaid… In your neighborhood people make more thant $250K regardless. So not voting for the Koolaidman and his puppet.

If Joe the Plumber is making over $250,000 in Ohio, I am moving to Ohio and becoming a plumber!

With median home price under $100,000.00 in Ohio and dropping, and earning that much money, I don't care what the tax rate is, I am pretty sure I can afford private health insurance, and send my kid to a private school.

Ohio is a beautiful state, with good diversity (12% African Americans, 2% Asians, 2.5% Hispanics and others).

Plumbers in California make a pittance compared to what Joe the Plumber in Ohio makes. Maybe Ohio has the widest disparity between the rich and the poor.

Too many rich Joe the plumbers, and too many hourly shift workers barely making ends meet!

Fairness dictates that I state that Joe is apparently a plumbing contractor who owns his own business. Several sources state Joe is a registered Republican which should't matter. Samll businesses are up against it and McCain's health plan would kill a lot of their participation.

Your "diss" headline I feel is inaccurate. "Questions" would have been better.

Once again people and especially the Democrats are confused about Joe the Plumber.

The Company that Joe wants to buy – not Joe himself – makes about $250k/year. Then there are the costs like payroll, supplies, bill, rent, vehicles, etc. Add on to that the taxes and forced medical coverage costs Obama wants and that is a large chunk before Joe the plumber ever sees a dime.

And despite what Obama said during the debate – a $250k company falls within the range of "big" companies Obama wants to hit up to "spread the wealth."

Joe the plumber wil be better off under the Obama tax es. As a small business and having employees he would be getting $3000 per employee benefit plus there will be the benefit of the medical benefit if he gives that to the employees. Overall he would make more money and be able to expand his business.

so basically this would leave joe biden in the same tax bracket as joe the plumber and put obama in a higher tax bracket. and what about the sheetrock guy here who has done a million last year and not even a margine of that this year where does that put him. and if they want to tax people who earn more they need to get a bit more realistic. because when rich peoples tax`s go up they quit spending money. and that leaves us in a bad situation. i say a fair tax where you pay a percentage on everything you buy. now that is fair taxs. if you pay a 25% tax on all consumer goods there is no tax loop-hole. and thanks joe the plumber im maurice the carpenter. and im not close to rich.

Joe was buying the business he worked for and wanted to add employees. When you lean too far to the left its hard to hear what people say. Once again, liberals are ignoring half the story.

P LEASE!'Joe the plumber has already made up his mind who he is voting for, who is he fooling??? .The guy already admitted he makes less then 250.000 dollars. As for his new business venture, it isn't even off the ground yet.. "Joe Plumber" is a mute point!! Get over it! sheep!!

News is coming out that "Joe" is a registered republican who has been very vocal against Obama at several McCain rallies and that he might have been a McCain plant.

I would like to see CNN look in to this issue.

The REAL Joe.
Thanks Senator Biden. You're a great guy, fine Senator and will make an outstanding Vice President.

What right does the government have to tell Person A that they are making too much money and need to give their money to those making less than them because it's 'not fair' that they are making more?
Better yet, what right does someone who is not a US Citizen (Barack Obama gave up his US Citizenship when he applied for Indonesian citizenship) have to run for president?

joe the plumber is a relative of charles keating. he is not even registered to vote. google it.

Mr. Biden gets it wrong again. Joe the Plumber wants to own a plumbing business (many plumbers), so the rate of one plumber's wages are not relevant.

It seems like before Obama raises taxes on "Joe the Plumber", he would have to make MORE THAN 5 TIMES AS MUCH AS THE AVERAGE AMERICAN PLUMBER ACCORDING TO THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS.

And here was McCain again claiming that over 50% of small businesses make more than $250,000 a year. This is just ridiculous because small businesses would be thrilled to make that much money in one year. And if they did make that much money, they should not be considered such a small business. Obama/Biden prove themselves one more time, and McCain/ Palin prove to be worthless and factually wrong on just about every issue.

I hope they post this comment. I was terrified last night watching Mccain, the expressions he was making and his body language freaked me out. He is no way a stable rational man. Just imagine him in the Oval office !!!!!!!!!!!!! wow. How did he get to be in the senate in the first place???????
Is this the best that the republicans can present as a Nominee????
Mccain should really check into a nut house.

This guy seems more like "Joe the Successful Businessman." Nobody likes taxes, but until we set a flat percentage rate, Joe may have to pony up.

– Erik the Stagehand

Most voters see the Joe the plumber thing for what it is; A pathetic attempt by John McCain to connect with everyday Americans. The fact is, when you own 8 houses and 13 cars and never had a job outside government that is difficult to do.

You feel it necessary in the liberal elite media to provide data on things that nobody is interested in. The better question would be would someone who wants to buy a plumbing busines that is profitable, which is what Joe the plumber wants to do, should be taxed at a higher rate, because Obama feels that we should spread the wealth around. That is just plain wrong. Joe is probably making $47,000 and wants to earn more and you disincentivize him by asking him to make people who do not pay taxes, get tax cuts and he gets a tax increase.

Do your homework CNN and stop being so much in the tank for Obama. Your reporting is so blatantly biased and you think you can fool the American people. Well, we can see through it which is why you guys are so disrespected and your viewership is sinking.

Wait, wait, wait.

So they're implying that McCain was using "Joe The Plumber" as a gimmick???

Astonishing, I do not believe it, preposterous…

DUH.

Joe the Plumber isn't even registered to vote!!! Real working people make less than $250,000. It's those people that Obama stands up for.

Joe is one of MCCain supporter to begin with. I agree, there is no plumber that makes $250K per year. This is one of the republican scam.

OBAMA-BIDEN 08

After listening to Joe the so called plumber this morning on a local TV station in OH he sounds very much like slick GOP politican instead of a hard working plumber. If you get a chance check it out & see what you think, he seemed pretty savy in front of the camera & did a good job with his speech, it sounded rehearsed…..

I watched "Joe the plumber" on almost every channel today! It looks like he had an agenda when he went to talk to Obama …. I would not be surprised if it turned out that he was planted there by some one to "fish for dirt" ….

In the interviews, "Joe the plumber" did not come out as authentic "ordinary Joe the American" ….

This whole thing is crazy. All over the net Joe the plumber is being said to be related to Charles Keating from the McCain Keating 5 scandal. Not surprising. Plant.

Senator McCain is out of touch sometimes. He did not know how many houses and how many cars he had as personal belongings. Well, he did not know a guy with $250,000 annual income could hardly probably represent the majority of plumbers. I guess, in McCain's campaign, including himself and his VP pick, every Republican believes that 90% of people in our country make more than $250,000 annually. This out-of-touch mentality of McCain's campaign really scares me. On the other hand, Bush administration already gave huge money to rescue banks. Who is gonna find this money? Leave it as big deficit for our next generation to pay?

McCain/Palin will grasp at any straw to get elected.

Joe-the-plumber, Joe six-pack.

What's next Joe-I-didn't-get-elected?

You betcha!!!!

Well, "IF" joe the plumber actually does make over $250,000.00 then he "should be taxed more..the poor hard working maids I saw working at a motel earning only minium wage deserve a tax break ! and an increase in hourly wages ! its just absurd to not tax obscenely wealthy people, who got that way taxing US, more.turn about is fair play..I seriously doubtr taxing the wealthy is really going to affect them much one way or another..McCain probably doesnt even know how to budget, since he never had to learn.,.He IS NOT one of us who wasnt born with a silver spoon in our mouths ! Sorry, I have no sympathy left for obscenly wealthy people, all my sympathy goes to my own family members making under $50,000.00 a year, and some working 2 jobs just to try to get a college education as WE on social security cant pay for it for them, and I bet are many of you in same boat..
old white independent seniors for OBAMA

My dad used to run a small Heating / Air Conditioning company. I know for a fact he never hit over $250,000.

People really need to stop listening to McCain's lies as their source of information on Obama's policies.

If you believe everything you read, then listen to this: McCain supports a "Logan's Run" themed termination age for all Americans once they reach the age of 50. He says this will help with retirement costs. He also wants to not only make abortion illegal, but require every couple produce one male child to serve in his army.

It seems like a lot of people have fallen for the great Republican lie: The claim that tax breaks for big business creates job, that if they have more wealth, it will rain down upon everyone else. Tax breaks for the wealthy DO NOT create jobs, because increased revenue does not create jobs. What's the incentive to hire someone just because you have more money in your pocket? That makes absolutely no sense. They aren't going to hire more people if there's no increase in customer's demand for their product, not matter how much of a tax break you give them. A demand for an increase in production is what creates jobs. If a company's profits increase, they don't reinvest it in more labor unless there's an increase in demand, they just keep the profits. And if there's an increase in demand, they'll hire more people either way because they have to in order to keep up with demand. That's why Republican policies lead to nothing more than increased income disparity and a rise in inflation. Demand comes mostly from the bottom up, which is why it makes more sense to give those tax breaks to consumers who then stimulate the economy by buying goods and services from those businesses.

I the guy Joe the plumber said he is going to get a new business which earns him more than 250k, not the plumbing business may be. anyway, i still think Obama/Biden 08 and 12.

Right On Joe. Real Straight Talk. And organization was Joe Wurzelbacher a member of that he didn't want to mention to the american public?

I am so glad that Joe is pointing this out. Most people in general don't make that much money.

Bottom line, those who make more, should pay more.

Wow, it amazing that the Obama/Biden ticket comes back with numbers and then the McCain camp comes back with nothing. I don't see how folks are still HOLLERING UNDECIDED!!!

LISTEN UP FOLKS, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND OPEN YOUR EARS, EYES, AND BRAIN BECAUSE THE STATS ARE OUT THERE BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO LOOK FOR THE INFORMATION. SOME MEDIA OUTLETS (I.E. FOX NEWS) WILL SKEW THE DATA!!!

Good for Biden! About time someone called this fake Joe (Who's real name is sam) out for lying about what he makes. This man was so obviously paid to walk up to Obama and instigate this "conversation" so that it could be used as McCain's new talking point.

Maybe Biden meets all of those people at the diner where he visits with them that has been closed for 20 years?

Right, Joe! People forget that we only tax business PROFITS in this country, not revenues. If the business has a 10% profit margin (which is pretty good) and still makes 250k in profit, that means it has 2.5 million in sales–that's a pretty big plumbing business. Hard to believe, but if it's true, then he should remember that most rich people did pretty good under the upper tax brackets during the Clinton years (which is where Obama would put them).

There is a difference between salary and what a small business makes. I'm sure if theyre able to pay themselves $47000/year their business is making over $250,000. And the 98% figure is including businesses that are set up as formalities for contracts and land deeds that don't actually employ people. The vast majority of small businesses that employ people would be taxed to death under Obama.

John McCain sounded like an old "senile fool" in keeping on and on and on referring to "Joe the Plumber". What's that got to do with anything? There are lots of "Joe the Plumbers" around but there are about 95% of folks who don't make $250,000 per year who would just like to have a job and be able to put a roof over their heads, food on the table and send their children to college. If "Joe" makes over $250,000 i really don't think he will have to worry much about the tax because of all of the tax shelters that he can readily find! So "get off it John" people are smarter than listening to one old senile fool keeping on and on regarding one man and with one issue!

Move over John, Barak is taking contro!!

I have donated $100 to the Obama-Biden during the course of this election. On Nov 4th, I'll get my change!

OBAMA/BIDEN 08

Obama is for Joe and me and 95% of American. McBush is for 5% of therich and yes we want to be rich so we can pay tax this is what make the America America not just 5% rich to be richer and make decision for us 95%

Im sure most plumbers make 47 grand. however, Joe wants to purchase a company that employs multiple plumbers that will make 47 grand a year. Joe feels that he can make 250 grand or more with the company, not by himself.

The "Joe the Plumber" references fell on deaf ears last night. Audience reaction dipped every time the reference was made. It just made McCain look more angry.

I asked my cousin, (a plumber like Joe), if he makes more than 250k?He laughed and said, "No. Lucky if I make 38k."

I don't think "Joe the Plumber" of Holland, OH is a being honest. Not a straight talker.

My concern with the November election is in reference to a question Bob Shaffer asked each candidate during the debate on October 15th. The question was concerning each of their running mates for the vice presidency. Do they think they are qualified to lead the county if something should happen to each of them while they are president? Neither candidate was willing to give a direct answer to this question.

Although Senator Obama stated he believe Senator Biden will make an excellent candidate to run the county, Senator McCain was unable or unwilling to give an answer.

Mccain did out this Joe guy like Valerie Plaime.. I hope Joe gets a huge book deal and goes on Jay Leno.

As far as any notions of Mccain winning the debate… no, no he didn't. He lsot, and lost very badly. Those people who are saying he won are using faulty, biased polling data at FOX News, and are of course, clinging to their only hope of keeping the voters they currently have by suggesting that he won by arguing that they learned something of Mccain that perhaps clueless Mccain followers didn't pick up. This is a question of ability to comprehend the issues purported last evening and fooling people who didn't get anything that was said.

Joe the plumber's own words were that he is not hurt by Obama's tax plan right now. So he is will get the benefits of Obama's plan and be hurt by John McCain's right now. Old Joe the Plumber was speaking hypothetically when he was talking to Obama. So McCain’s claim that Joe would be hurt by Obama is false!!!

and, if you figure that Joe the plumber kept talking in terms of revenue, as opposed to the real thing that is taxed – profits – the mccain argument loses more ground, because while revenues might be $250,000, once expenses, like payroll and other items are deducted to reach the taxable profits number, that will clearly be less than $250K, and hence, wont be taxed higher under Obama.

McCain really shows he's clueless in the area of economics.

I don't care about JOE – his job is staying in the US. So sorry that he has to pay his fair share of the tax burden.

I care about my tech job going to India. What's McCain's plan to stop that migration – haven't heard one word about that from McCain.

Obama on the other had will penalize companies that ship those jobs overseas.

I hate, hate, hate the media. I am a Democrat that always believed the media was so important to our Democracy. The media in this election has been so biased for Obama from the primary through the general election. This has not been a fair fight from the beginning. All the media is interested in is "making history" with this election. People: do not believe anything the media says or does. They are now the most corrupt institution in America.

Obama now needs to get a commanding victory – not a narrow, close win, but one that provides him with a clear mandate to take this country into an entirely new direction.

Perhaps Joe the Plumber saved up money to buy a business for 250k. It is easy to spin by Biden… but doesn't Biden make a lot of references that don't even hold up? Like Katy's Restaurant which has been out of business for 20 years?

My question was this business that he was going to buy making over $250,000? The tax rates for businesses under Obama going up even for those businesses making $250,000? If it is a sole proprietor, then it could possibly be reported on his own taxes. That would be one good business if it is doing plumbing and making that kind of money.

Joe wants to get a business but, he don’t have it or the money right now so, check it out, you want the tax cut B/O is proposing so you can get that business(you have more money in your pocket). Also once you get it(the business ) yeah you pay more but, check it out Joe, your employees and other Americans are getting tax cuts(more money in pocket) well Joe lets think about it Americans have more money that means they will be spending more, guess what Joe your business increases a little more so, you pay a little more but, you have a lot more money now and business to work coming from other people who are getting the tax cut!!!

Biden you don't say how small that grocery store is or if its a Mom/Pop ogranization so all income would go to the owners. Small business owners also don't have to pay workmans comp insurance either for themselves. So of course a mom/pop grocery store would do fantastic under these cicumstances. There aren't alot of small business's that make under 250. when you have inventory, payroll, payroll taxes (which Biden your man wants to raise) worksman comp. insurance which is sky high, vehicles if you make deliveriers. So Joe where are these under 250. business's that are making it I would like to know.

So apparently Joe the plumber isn't even registered to vote. So why do we care what he thinks?

Oh, and he's also apparently related to Charles Keating. Interesting coincidence, isn't it?

Wake up people! Change, shmange! Nancy Pelosi and 170 of her close friends have been ruling the roost of Congress! Democrats in Congress outnumber Rebublicans nearly 2 to 1! Change?! Democrats hold the power now and could have had change at any point. But I supose it's much easier to point a finger. The only bonus to Barack Obama winning is that I won't have to hear the whining of leftist liberal any more. But could that really happen……uh, no. But hopefully the Lefts should happy with the Marxist society that will be imposed by Obama. Say goodbye to Democracy as we know it, the "unintitled" have lost.

as a business owner it is possible for him to make more than that. that is if he is a big enough company that he can take on big jobs – say new buildings.

but for mid to small size business, that is true, i doubt very much if he could make over 250k a year to worry himself about getting heavily taxed.

that truly is the essense of the whole thing isn't it. i don't mind paying taxes even the same as i am paying today (i'm one of those definitely below 250). i realize the government now more than ever needs funds to function. not having it raised is a real bonus that'll help out definitely.

i think mccain should really stop insulting our brains by continuously twisting the facts of obama's tax plan. we all understand it, why can't he? instead of twisting it and hope that it'll stick, why not offer a better plan? maybe we'll listen.

The plumber himself doesn't EARN 250k, his business does. And that business pays the wages and expenses and all sorts of other things. Take more taxes out of the business and it has less money for all the other things.

Come on Joe the Senator, don't fool people

"According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters in the United States in 2007 was $47,350."

Yep, but if Joe the plumber has 5 guys working for him, he's already PAYING 250,000 in salaries, let alone what the business brings in. So, if Joe wants to add a 6th guy, BO will hammer him.

Or, if Joe wants more employees, he can start a burger stand, that way he can have minimum wage guys working for him and create more jobs.

That way, he might qualify for the "job creation" tax credit promised by BO.

The only way politicians hold sway over the populace is through manipulation of the tax code. Get rid of it, implement a fair tax or flat tax and watch this economy take off. One need look no further than Ireland to see that this works.

Why have France and Canada recently elected conservatives, yet we move more toward where they were at 15 years ago?

They should be selling "Been There, Done That" T-shirts.

Biden is an idiot. Obama and Biden is clearly now against the American Dream, I guess I ought to raise my children to aim low, that way they don't get labled as being the bad rich person for merely making over $250,000 per year. This is a Socialist idea. That somehow the rich is responsible for spreading the wealth to the poor. I worked hard for every penny that I've earned. I've worked three jobs and now I'm responsible for the entire country? is this what we teach our children?

The republican campaign is negative – they try to scare us. I'm scared ONLY of McCain/Palin.

Obama/Biden '08

Joe the Plumber wants to keep ALL of his money like the rest of us but, that is simply not the American way. Although it is nice to hear that anything under a half mil are good to go. Joe is a replugnant and thinks like Mcsame. Get real!

Is Joe the Plumber registered to vote!?

Joe Biden has a good handle on reality for normal folks, having come from them and never forgetting it. McCain came from wealth and power and has lived all his life amid privilege — and it shows.

Joe the Plumber … sure and he makes over 250K yeah right…. I was so over the Joe the Plumber thing it was just crazy… okay so we have had three debates and there should be no doubt from anyone what to do right? get your self out there and vote on the 4th if you have not all ready voted early…. we have to stay on point and ensure that we get the right team into the white house… do tell hun? as if ?????

**************** Obama and Biden 2008 & 2012 ****************************

Give them a chance to implement the needed change and then complete the task…. Yes we can!!!!!

I know of some that make more like $80,000 a year… a business could make more than that… but its still going to be closer to under $250,000 a year.

I dont see where his concerns are unless Joe the Plummer hasnt done any research on it???? I am a bit confused with where Joe the Plummer is getting his figure of over $250,000??

It is very apparent from the "Joe the plumber" comments by Obama, and past statements he's made, he intends on leading us down the path to socialism.

Well, what is the amount of taxes Joe the plumber would pay NOW if he was making $260,000 a year, how much would he pay under OBAMA's plan and how much would he pay under McCain's plan.

Until those estimates are published, any discussion of Joe the plumber is meaningless. He might NOT pay more taxes under Obama's Plan!

Joe the Plumber must fix John McCain's leaks.

Exactly Sentator Biden. Who cares about Joe the Plumber. Is Joe the Plumber going to solve the Heathcare Crisis? Or the energy crisis.
Think about this. Joe the Plumber probably cant buy that business he wants, not because of his complaint on tax policies, but BECAUSE HE CANT GET A LOAN FROM THE BANKS!!!!!!!!!– So why waste time on Joe the Plumber,
unless…. Unless…..
McCain plans on firing Palin from VP and asking Joe the Plumber to be on his ticket!~ Why not? It might be what the McCain campaign needs. I wouldnt put it past them……

Joe the Plumber was a seed planted by the McCain camp. Give it some time and it will come out.

McCain might not want to brag too much. It seems our "Joe the plumber" isn't even a plumber! Joe apparently forgot public records are easily found and stories verified.

Well Obama's camp should wonder about this so call Joe the plummer. I put nothing past mccain this guy could just be a plant and he's playing a role mccain and that evil campaign camp of his has come up with. I would be willing to make a wager that Joe the plummer is a FAKE. Joe Biden on the other is sharp as they come, way to go the real Joe!!!

Obama/Biden

I saw this dude on TV; he doesn't look like he makes $250K a year. If so, I don't know why anyone would live in a shotty house like that.

Go Obama/Biden. I noticed yesterday that McCain was trying to redefine 'Joe Six Pack' as someone making $250,000 a year. If Joe the plumber is making $250k in this economic market then he doesn't have my sympathy.

He must use gold pipes or something.

Biden should question Obama answers to Joe the plumber!