(CNN) – A crucial hearing today in Minnesota could have a major impact on that state's recount of its Senate race between Republican incumbent Norm Coleman and Democratic challenger Al Franken.
The state's five member Canvassing Board, which oversees the recount, is meeting to decide how to deal with thousands of absentee ballots that are not included in the recount. Franken's campaign says the ballots were wrongly rejected, and that about 6,400 ballots were wrongly disqualified. Coleman's team says the board doesn't have the authority to include the disputed ballots in the recount.
The hearing comes as the number of ballots being challenged by both camps grows. Just over 80 percent of votes cast in the state’s Senate race have been recounted, in a process that could continue into next month.
Unofficial results from the November 4 election put Coleman, a freshman Republican senator, just 215 votes ahead of Democratic challenger Al Franken, known across the country from his days on Saturday Night Live and from his years as a talk show host on progressive radio network Air America. The slim margin for Coleman, far less than one-half of one percent, triggered an automatic recount, the first time there's ever been a recount of a U.S. Senate race in Minnesota.
Election officials at 107 sites across Minnesota are in the middle of the long process of recounting all of the ballots, surrounded by election observers and lawyers from both campaigns, and the media.
The Secretary of State's office reports that 3,594 ballots have been challenged so far, with 1,836 questioned by Coleman's camp and 1,758 questioned by Franken's camp.
According to the Secretary of State's office, 80.62 percent of the more than 2.9 million votes cast in the election were recounted through yesterday. When comparing the new tallies with the results from November 4, it appears Coleman's 215 vote lead now stands at 238.
With the margin between Coleman and Franken remaining so close, the status of the ballots challenged during the recount and the disputed ballots that are not being counted could be crucial to the outcome of the recount.
Democrats have so far picked up seven Senate seats in this year's election, with the Republican seats in Minnesota and Georgia still undecided. In Georgia, freshman Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss faces off in a runoff election on December 2 against Democrat Jim Martin, a former state lawmaker.
If the Democrats take both remaining contests, they'll reach their pre-election goal of controlling 60 Senate seats, a filibuster-proof majority. A filibuster is a move by the minority party in the Senate that basically brings the chamber to a standstill by blocking votes on legislation.
From CNN Politics
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Sigh....I hope this doesn't go on forever. The country is waiting for a Democratic victory.
More people should have voted Barkley....
Every vote should be counted.
Franken needs to hang it up. By the way I am a liberal Democrat. It is a shame that the Minn. Democratic party did not offer a stronger candidate. With Coleman winning by such a small margin, it is clear that a serious candidate, not a professional comedian, would have won the race comfortably.
The Republicans are again trying to upset the cart in Minnesota but it's not going to happen.Karl Rove 's tricks are outdated. Minnesota is a BLUE STATE.
Why were they wrongly disqualified to begin with ??? Al ,go back to being a joke,you're costing everybody a lot of time and money,and that isn't funny.
All votes should be counted if possible.
On what grounds ?????
Count them all!
We really need to do something about the voting system in this country. It's getting ridiculous.
First, I think we need to federalize and standardize any election with national office implications.
We need to go to electronic voting. There needs to be some type of audit process, to be sure. And it should be tamper-proof. But it should not take over a month past election day to determine the results. Initial results should be almost instantaneous.
We need a more effective way for absentee ballots to be cast and counted. I'm not a big fan of casting one's vote over the internet; there are too many opportunities for error and contamination. But traditional paper ballots, evidently, are not the answer either. It needs to be idiot-proof, quickly counted and leave no question as to the intent of the person casting the ballot. Similarly, if more scrutiny is paid when absentee ballots are mailed out, there should not be any questions when those ballots are received back in.
all should be counted, and dispute them if you must. Keep it up Minnesota. Hoping to hear Shammity and especially OReilly say "Senator Franken" just to tee them off!!
Go FRANKEN!
Again, the Republican wants a technicality to make it impossible to count votes that could be legitimate. Shouldn't these votes be reviewed to determine whether they are legal votes? Coleman says, No, you don't have jurisdiction.
Whatever happened to counting every ballot?
Seems like an attempt to not allow every vote to count and steal an election.
Typical. Republicans like to play by the rules. Democrats don't think the rules should be followed if they are contrary to their ideas of fairness.
Okay, it's pretty simple.
Let's all say it together.
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10...
See? Counting's easy!
The 238 number is an absolute farce.
Both campaigns have been frivolously challenging ballots left and right, but the Coleman campaign has been challenging more ballots that were accepted by the judges as a ballot for Franken... while the Franken campaign has been challenging more votes that the judges ruled that "no voter intent can be interpreted".
Therefore, the ballots that Coleman challenge result in a legitimate vote for Franken being temporarily reduced, while the ballots that Franken challenge are currently no-votes, and Franken wants them to be Franken votes.
Since Minnesota law has a strong bias towards interpreting voter intent... it is more likely that the challenges of no-votes to interpreted votes will be accepted than the challenges of ballots that the voter intent has been judged to be clear.
If all ballots are rejected at large, the actual split is ~80 votes. But I'll bet Franken wins more challenges than Coleman.
If there is going to be a recount, then all the ballots need to be viewed fairly, including the rejected ones. Who knows why the ballots was rejected in the first place. The conservatives are always acusing others of cheating when they are the Kings of that!!
ALL VOTES SHOULD BE COUNTED. THAT IS HOW I READ THE CONSITITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. THAT IS UNLESS THE VILLAGE IDIOT THAT IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE NOW HAS DONE AWAY WITH THE REST OF OUR RIGHTS AND HE PROBABLY HAS. I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS DOING SO GOOD NOW AND HIS APPROVAL RATEING OF HIS NOMINEES TO VARIOUS MEMBERS OF HIS CABINET ARE SKY ROCKETING THAT THE CURRENT VILLAGE IDIOT AND HIS CRONIES SHOULD LEAVE THE WHITE HOUSE BEFORE THE 20TH OF JANUARY 2009 SO THAT OBAMA AND HIS TEAM CAN START TO TURN THIS HORIFFIC MESS AROUND. THERE IS AN OLD SAYING THE SOONER THE BETTER JIM HALL KANSAS CITY MISSOURI.
I don't like it when a candidate in a close election argues that certain ballots should not be counted or even looked at.
If a group is charged with recounting votes, then they must look at and evaluate all ballots. They can later conclude that the ballots were rightly rejected. Perhaps the voter voted in the wrong precinct or was not registered and the ballots should not count. Let the recounters get on with the job of recounting.
America was flim-flammed in 2000 in Florida. How much better the nation and the world would be today if Gore had become President. However five Republican Party hacks on the Federal Supreme Court ordered a Florida court to stop counting Florida ballots (so much for states' rights).
Now, 8 years later, our local governments have done nothing to improve the accuracy of our vote counting.
I hope they get to 60 seats. Then, they can tell Joe Lieberman what they REALLY think of him.
A double edged sword –
Pro – if Franken wins the recount, the Dems gain another seat in the Senate.
Con – if Franken wins the recount, Franken becomes US senator.
Can we just flip a coin or something?
What a mess. Imagine the people of Minnesota are embarressed and fed up with all of this.
Any legitimate vote should be counted. Not whether an i is dotted.
I hope by the next election we will have a legitimate, credible
voting system in place that cannot be questioned by either
party,
OMG, can we just toss a coin. Obviously, Minnesotans can't even seem to do a recount in a reasonable time. Maybe the cold weather up there freezes their brains. There's got to be a better way for our voting system and not just in Minnesota.
What happened to counting all ballots? Absentee ballots are not counted? Norm Coleman should be ashamed of himself.
Franken WILL be the winner!!!!
Oh come on! lets give the senate seat to the wimp Franken, and show the nation what a one party system can do to us, at least for the next few years.
CNN doesn't explain why they shouldn't be counted. Clearly they have an agenda to get Franken elected.
Disparaging stuff is always explained in detail when it has to do with republicans. When it has to do with libs, its glossed over.
Youtube how Obama got elected. CNN is directly repsonsible for this. Stop trying to manipulate the news. At least Hannity has a Colmes. At least it is an attempt. Brown and Wolf have nobody to dispute their biased viewpoints.
Coleman is a Bush stooge that needs to be tossed out the door!!!!!
I'm hoping Franken wins, and wins by everything being done legally and correctly. If he doesn't, so be it.
But, I absolutely want Chambliss, down in Georgia, to take a hike.
Looks like the Republicans and their army of lawyers want to steal yet another election.
Why won't this go to moderator? I wonder.
CNN doesn't explain why they shouldn't be counted. Clearly they have an agenda to get Franken elected.
Disparaging stuff is always explained in detail when it has to do with republicans. When it has to do with libs, its glossed over.
Youtube how Obama got elected. CNN is directly repsonsible for this. Stop trying to manipulate the news. At least Hannity has a Colmes. At least it is an attempt. Brown and Wolf have nobody to dispute their biased viewpoints.
I've heard so often from the GOP that the Dems were the ones trying to steal the elections from people.
"Franken's campaign says the ballots were wrongly rejected, and that about 6,400 ballots were wrongly disqualified. Coleman's team says the board doesn't have the authority to include the disputed ballots in the recount."
So in a election seperated by a couple hundred votes, now the GOP doesn't want to count all the votes?
Frankens stuffed ballots I'll bet ! No one knows where they came from but you can guess!
It seems Coleman's main objective is to that all legitimate votes are not counted.
The bottom line is all votes should be looked at and any that are legitimate need to be counted or the entire election is simply a farce with the voters being denied their right to choose who they want to represent them in the Senate.
As always, the Republican fights to make sure votes are not counted, and the Democrat fights to make sure they are.
And for those of you who deride Franken because he was a comedian (and a darn good one, by the way!) you obviously never listened to his political commentary on the radio, or read his books. The man speaks the truth from an intelligent and well thought out viewpoint. The fact that he has a sense of humor only adds to his qualifications. The people of Minnesota, and the entire country, will benefit by having him in the Senate. Go Al!
Coleman's quite the card. First, he declares victory. Then, he tries to guilt Franken into waving the recount. Then, he declares victory again. Now, he's moving heaven and earth to keep ballots from being counted. If you win, Norm, enjoy your second term. Because I don't think you're getting a third term.
i smell a skunk,,,,, acorn ,,, and the cheats... are stealing another election
Every vote deserves to be counted. I think we are all tired of Republicans stealing elections, and we know that it happened in 2004.
Chambliss is not related to the Governor of the state by chance? Just asking.....
Count ALL the votes – and then whoever has more votes wins! Any candidate that tries to suppress votes should be disqualified.
Unreal. Most of the country can get their ballots counted on election night, but here is Minn who can't get a recount done in a few weeks? Well, they did vote in the wrestler Jesse Ventura as Gov. Geez Looks like Minisota has become the new florida.
Will Sarah Palin be there?
This is America. Count all the votes. Period.
If a bunch of lawyers try to explain away why we shouldn't count all the votes, they are UNPATRIOTIC and deserve to be dealt with by firing squad for treason. It's that serious.
No more hiding behind a JD degree or barrister arrogance.
I'm sure that these 6400 votes will give the election to Franken. The repubs just don't want them counted at all. Wonder why? Sounds like tampering to me! I'm sure Georgia will be in the same situation after their election. Wonder why? Already sounds like tampering to me!!.
Let's give Al Franken a boost. Let's get Sarah Palin in to accuse the Democrats of dirty tricks regarding the vote. That should just about finish Coleman Ha! It's Florida all over again only this time the tavbles are turned.
Count all the votes thats the honest thing to do.
Coleman does not want absentee ballots counted I wonder why is it that he will lose the Senate seat if all the votes are counted .
Al Franken will win if all the votes are counted.
Is there any information on why the 6,400 ballots were disqualified? That seems like a lot of ballots.
Were they provisional? Were they early and or mail-in?
Did Mickey Mouse fill them all out?
Why does it seem like every time I read about any kind of ballot dispute, it is always, always, always the GOP who is trying to make sure that ballots don't get counted?
oh good. A turkey pardons another turkey
Is there a reason why there are some ballots are being counted? Was there a reason why the ballots weren't counted before? They have to find these missing ones. Otherwise I would say they should do what Florida should have done - the whole state revote on the one race.
Does it not bother people in Minnesota who voted absentee to think that perhaps your ballot is NOT being counted?? I would be raising cain right now.
Sure makes me wonder if my absentee ballot in Fort Worth, Texas REALLY got counted or not- especially since most of our county is run by died in the wool far far far right Republicans.
Send Franken back to the comedy circuit. We don't need to make the democrats any more of a joke than they already are.
Geez, why don't they just have a run-off already? Save us all some time and trouble!
Regardless of who the winner is, this is ridiculous. There should be a no-whining, act like an adult rule which would ultimately disqualify both of them and hand the contest to the third party candidate, Barkley.
Barkley would be better than either of these partisan hacks and the country would be better off as a result.
I don't believe either of these two really want to be a public servant, it's all about power and money. Franken's a loud mouth that thinks he should be responsible for implementing the Screen Actor's Guild agenda and rally against anything traditional, he the penultimate anti-establishment character.
Coleman is a former Democrat who is now a Republican, this guy can't make up his mind just sway which ever way the wind is blowing.
There should be a get-over-it-already rule that gets rid of the first guy to lawyer up.
The best way to solve all of this crap is to institute a lottery for these seats and just pick any registered voter with at least a GED. Look where the "professionals" have taken this country over the last 40 years.
The law clearly states perimeters set up for Absentee ballots. If they fail to meet those standards, then they can't be counted. In the last election, there were military ballots from overseas that the Democrats didn't want counted and due to the requirements, failed to meet the standards and were not counted. Minnesota must follow the law.
I love the idiot Repubs blabbering about ACORN as they attempt to suppress voter turnout, but really, this should be settled Aaron Burr/Alexander Hamilton style.
It doesn't matter if Al Franken wins or loses, just count the votes. Don't let others feel it is a waist of time to do absentee ballots and then they not be counted. The Republicans really need to wake up and rethink their ideas, they look as if they are fading, and fading fast – as they should!
Umm perhaps GOP are always the ones getting the ballots thrown out because the Dem's are the always the ones placing the fraudulent votes...?
We have laws that require ballots to be rejected if they don't meet the standards of those laws. If they do meet them, they must be counted. If they were rejected for cause, they cannot and should not be counted.
So what's Franken going to be yelling about this time.
And to V voter November 26th, 2008 10:18 am ET – No, Franken's the one stealing the election. He couldn't cut it as a radio host, he's past his prime as a comedian, his trying to steal this seat is yet another example of a pathetic human being. He is bitter, and holds views that would even make Stalin say "Whoa, tone it down there pal." What would be best for Minnesota and America would be for him to lose and just fade into oblivion, making insane rants like Chevy Chase.
count all the votes and make it right and i hope franken wins and we get rid of the nazi coleman
This smells funny. Amazing all the votes are in Franken's favor. Who got paid for votes??????? Franken is a rude, loud mouth idiot! I don't care about the parties that rule, i just want it to be fair. Thugs at it again!
You know, my bank's ATM has never messed up, and is very good at counting things-money. Why is it SO hard to get an ATM voter machine that would register and count all votes instantaneously?
This thing about "voter intent" is bogus. If a voter can't read directions and fill out the ballot correctly, their vote SHOULD be void. I don't want anyone interpreting my ballot. Say for example I put an X in the bubble for a candidate and left the other blank: what was my intent.? Well, I intended to cross out the one candidate so that my vote is for the one with the open bubble... Point is, we shouldn't be "interpreting" ballots.
Democrats want all legal votes counted. Republicans look for any possible way to exclude ballots if they think those ballots are against them.
Oh for the love of Mike, give it up Coleman. If you win you will be on the losing side of the aisle anyway. We need new blood in Congress and the Senate. The more 'old boys' that aren't there the more progress will be made. Al Franken!!!
While the disputed votes may be in question, there is no question that the 6,400 absentee votes should be counted.
Every American has the right to vote either in person or by absentee.
Go Franken go all the way to Washington!
More DemoBrats and Rethuglicans at work. These two parties must go. It's pretty clear that both just have their interests in mind...forget about us. Coleman will be for more bailouts and Franken will take away union voter anonymity...heck he cant even pay his own taxes.
Why do you all keep voting for the two parties that have put us in the economic problems that we are in? It's not the fault of one or the other It's both of them!!!! Stop voting for these two!!!!
Really?! Count every vote? Even if someone votes more than once? Even if the person has been dead for a year? Even if the person is not a US citizen? Even if the person is 6 months old? Even if the signature does not match the registration? Perhaps you meant count every valid vote?
Another useless spineless Democrat that's poor loser...what a baby...
Dialog:
A: Hey there's a rejected ballot!
B: why was it rejected?
A: no bubbles filled, only a large coffee cup stain crescent on the ballot.
B: hey, that vote should be counted!!!
A: what vote?
B: the one on the ballot...
A: the STAIN?
B: let me see it...oh, its obvious, the bleed throough from the back clearly indicates that it was closer to Franken. Put it in the Franken Pile.
A: uh.....
B: ah, my work is done....
Phil-Little Rock November 26th, 2008 9:56 am ET
I hope they get to 60 seats. Then, they can tell Joe Lieberman what they REALLY think of him.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The 60 would INCLUDE Joe Lieberman....
______________________________________________________
S.B. Stein E.B. NJ November 26th, 2008 11:08 am ET
Is there a reason why there are some ballots are being counted? Was there a reason why the ballots weren't counted before?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Absentee ballots and the Provisional ballots are never counted unless there is a close count; normally elections are won by a large enough margin that those types of ballots would not affect the outcome of the election. In this case both Provisional and Absentee votes COULD change the winner of the election.
I prefer Franken but it really doesn't matter at this point.
I just don't understand why the right wingers on this blog are foaming at the mouth. Shouldn't everyone's vote count? Isn't that a basic right?
What are you guys afraid of now?
Coleman has been ahead the whole time since election night and now Franken is coming in like the weasel he is and trying to steal the election. By the way Al, Rush can lose weight but you are just plain ugly.
re:
"This smells funny. Amazing all the votes are in Franken's favor."
Hmm... this article says "When comparing the new tallies with the results from November 4, it appears Coleman's 215 vote lead now stands at 238."
How does Coleman gaining 23 votes in the recount equal "all the votes in Franken's favor?"
That is how recounts work. You don't know who gains or loses votes until you finish counting all of the votes.
That is how elections work. Count the votes!
If people cant follow simple directions when voting absentee or not, they shouldnt be counted. Simple as that.
lovable liberal November 26th, 2008 11:52 am ET
"Democrats want all legal votes counted. Republicans look for any possible way to exclude ballots if they think those ballots are against them."
Thats really funny since they have both challenged about the same number of ballots.
Oh, ye of little faith, nay sayers, and sore losers.... hold thy words and thou shalt see that a good and honest man has been brought into office.... and in time thou shalt have to eat thy words!
And, SERIOUSLY..... Get over it! YOU LOST! *LOL*
Democracy can sometimes be messy. This is one of those times. It appears to me that there is a clear process laid out by law regarding the recount and any challenges made under it. It may take time and yes some recourse to the courts to clarify the question of the eligibility of the absentee ballots. A little patience on all sides would go a long way.
Let the process work. This is what we mean when we talk about the rule of law.
At the end of the day the whole purpose of voting is to ascertain the will or intention of voters. Sometimes these things get a little tricky but I would be concerned with a process that only focussed on strict adherence to technicalities and not the intent of the law.
No matter, the republican party is in rapid decline and will be irrelavant soon. They've inflicted enough damage, their politics of hate has resulted in more people being hated than they can vote against in the future. Go back to sending your cash to your minister's heavenly bank accounts, and get out of the spotlight please.