WASHINGTON (CNN) - A new national poll suggests that nearly two-thirds of Americans think white firefighters in New Haven, Connecticut where discriminated against when the city tossed out the results of a promotion exam after too few minorities scored high enough on the test.
Monday the Supreme Court, in a five to four vote, ruled in favor of the white firefighters.
A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation national survey released Monday morning, as the Supreme Court handed down it's ruling, indicates that 65 percent of those questioned say the firefighters were victims of discrimination and should get promotions based on the test results, with 31 percent feeling that the city should a new test to make sure minority firefighters were not victims of discrimination.
"Not surprisingly, most Republicans think that the firefighters were victims of discrimination, but a majority of Democrats join in that view," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Fifty-seven percent of Democrats say the white firefighters were discriminated against. Two-thirds of Independents and three-quarters of Republicans agree."
Sonia Sotomayor, President Barack Obama's nominee to replace retiring Supreme Court justice David Souter, was one of three appeals court judges who ruled that New Haven officials acted properly.
The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted Friday through Sunday, with 1,026 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points.
From CNN Politics
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Finally some sanity!!!
This is exactly why I don't want Sotomayor to be on the supreme court. She has bad judgement just like the person appointing her to the bench. It doesn't surprise me that Obama would pick such a person.
Yeah, and CNN polls are notorious to be overrun by racist white folks-basically the 21%'ers. Sometimes, I can barely get a comment in because they overrun the comments 24/7. They complain about minorites being lazy and not working, but apparently most of the posters don't work, because they are here all frakinn day.
Reverse discrimination exists, and it is satisfying to see the Supreme Court recognize this and rule in favor of the firefighters that were wrongfully denied promotion.
Lets see......
Obama's Supreme Court nominee is exposed as having poor judgment, borderline racist.
Terrorist detainees are going to be held under W's rule.
You picked the same church for spiritual guidence as W
Your inexperience and incompetence is showing Obama!!
At least someone has the forsight to realize W was right about a lot of things!!
Well of course we realize Obama's nominee would never be biased toward Whites, but might be biased toward Blacks. Obama supports minority views only and plans to ruin all the rest of us through taxation and healthcare selection.
Only in America, could people think that white firefighters were discriminated against.
You bet those firefighters were victims of discrimination and Sonia Sotomayor added to this discrimination. Kudos to the firefighters that didn't sit back and cry about it. They did what needed to be done and hats off to them.
At least for now there is justice at the Supreme Court. Enjoy it while we can, because Obama will surely make sure that impartiality doesn't count in his court.
Huray for the S.C. now we see what Miss Sotamayor is all about!!!!!
"Discrimated?" CNN, time to get a new editor...
Sotomayor got it wrong as well as the four liberals on the SC.
This should have been a 6-3 or 7-2 decision.
Perhaps some people just simply failed to prepare for the exam.
2/3 of the people could see this, but why couldn't Sotomayor?
It wasn't a "surprise" test. Everyone knew it was coming and what would be on it. What more do you need? Oh, that's right. You don't have to try hard if you think you're special.
If this situation was reversed (minority firefighters scoring higher than whites), this would never had made it to court. Here in America, the melting pot of races, ethnicities, and cultural backgrounds, you'd think the race card would stop being "played", so that hardwork, ability and merit would win out. The best PERSON for the job should be the one to get that job. I think "race" and "ethnicity" should not be a factor to anything achieveable, therefore, those stupid little boxes of "Select your race and ethnicity" should be removed from ALL applications and forms, except medically related ones where critical treatment options may vary due to biochemical differences.
And why do we want her on the Supreme Court? Weather her comments werte racist or not is meaningless. She is a bad judge...period.
Well finally, if America is going to be fair, then be fair for all!!! I know discrimination has been going on for a long time but enough is enough. Yes, I am white and proud of it but I also know that my fellow American's blood is the same color as mine. So again, be fair to one, be fair to all!!!
New racism is no better than old racism.
As someone who came from a Northern State to a southern. I was shocked to see how racist people are against white people. The things they allow to be said on the self proclaimed black radio stations in regard to white people are horrible. Racism from any group is a horrible thing. It does not matter that things were a certain way for x amount of years… So “now the tables are turned…”
That is a worse attitude than the original racism, if you know how it feels then why do it? It takes all of us to make things better, we need to let go of the grudges and the hard feelings. We as a people have such ability to love, however far far far too many people choose hate. We need to love one another, with NO regard for race, age, sex, sexual orientation…etc
Our Lord called upon us to hate the sin but love the sinner, we need to stop hating the sinners. We NEED to, for the sake of all of us!
really 100 do... the other 36 pre cent just want there way.... they dont care if its the right thing or not..... its all about them....
Two thirds of Americans plus the Supreme Court. That's what I call some good governance.
Look at the numbers, folks, there is clearly a problem when so many people don't recognize truth when it's plain as daylight. The white firefighters were discriminated against and to fail to recognize that is an indication of fuzzy thinking. Sotomayor should not be on the Supreme Court. Failure to recognize that is proof of ignorance.
finally some apparent common sense that shows discrimination regardless of whom it's agianst, is not legal, morally right, nor should it be tolerated. It's about time that promotions be based on merit and earned rather than given out based on color!
From the commentary:
"...with 31 percent feeling that the city should [create] a new test to make sure minority firefighters were not victims of discrimination."
They weren't "victims of discrimination." They just didn't qualify. Deal with it.
Tests such as these are already designed to be unbiased, in order to conform to Federal anti-discrimination rules.
The stats quoted in the article are heartening, with a solid majority siding with the White firemen. Of course, those who can't handle reality will continue to churn out creative excuses. Have fun.
Would love to hear from those who DON'T think it was discrimination. To lower standards so more minorities can advance is dead wrong. I for one want the most qualified firefighter or paramedic when I need one.
Two groups took a test(s) for jobs and or promotions. Whites and minorities.
White firefighters scored higher. They were passed over.
Minorities scored lower. They were given jobs and promotions.
Would it only be called discrimination if it were the other way around?
So the Supreme Court has pretty much said that Judge Sonia Sotomayor was wrong. That will make her confirmation hearings a little more interesting.
I agree 100% with the firefighters. One point I would like to make:
Discrimination is Discrimination there is no such thing as Reverse. I am so sick of hearing this term used.
And I would guess the sample was primarily white. This is a complicated issue, and should be discussed completely and with nuance and detail. Polls that are simple questions are skewed to simple thinkers.
ABsolutely........this is the type of judge we want on the SC? A derivative of Affirmative Action? Had she not been hispanic, and female, she wouldn't be considered...Obama's selection of her is merely a power play, and hispanics should be outraged that he's looking down his nose at them; trying to lure them into a false sense of comradery; merely for their votes. She was not picked on merit or track record; strictly a racial and political issue....the law? What's that?
I don't understand this case at all. Were white fire fighters given a test that was different than the rest of the fire fighters? Because if all of them took the same test, and the results turned out as they did, then why were the white fire fighters being punished because they passed the test, while a majority of minorities did not? And why would you not promote the fire fighters that passed the test? I believe in equal opportunity, I do, and I also believe in a system where the best man gets the job. In this case the fire fighters that got the highest scores on the test should get their promotions and retroactive pay, back to the original date that they would have received them. To those that think because few minorities passed the test, the test should be thrown out, and equal numbers of whites and minorities should be promoted on some other basis, then I am thankful that our Supreme Court ruled in favor of the white fire fighters. During emergencies when fire fighters are called in, we need the best and brightest people leading the way, in charge to make sure the situation is handled in the best way.
I am shocked that only 2/3rds of Americans believe that these firefighters were not discriminated against. If 100% of the "preferred" people passed the exam, there would be no complaints about the exam. The only reason that the city invalidated the exam, is that the "right" people did not pass.
Here is another example of the government trying to social engineer what it wants or thinks is fair. In the process it is being racist and unfair. The exam was an unbiased and race-blind method for assessing who should be promoted.
Signed,
An Independent Minority Voter
I think discrimination works both ways. I think that people should be promoted or hired on their qualifications and race or religion should never be considered. I also think age and being a woman should not be discriminated against. That still happens and nothing is done about it.
I'd like to see a fresh poll on whether Americans would like to see Sotomayer expedited to the Supreme Court bench. If it were taken today, I don't think she would have the confidence numbers. I know that I would like to see her go away A.S.A.P.
Add me to the list who thought the firefighters were discrimminated...to bad Sotomayor didn't felt that way.
This raises further questions on whether Sonia Sotomayor can keep her personal beliefs and prejudices away from influencing the interpretation of the law
So my question is...If the city, county, state, etc. create exams designed to exclude minorities (this is not a new practice in this country, it has been occurring since even before the Civil Rights Act), then what recourse do minorities have to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen?....I guess it would be ok to everyone if in fact the tests were biased.
Not everything is a race issue! Maybe the minorities just didn't take the test seriously? What would have happened if a new test version got the same results? As a minority myself, i think the race card should be discarded.
If this case was in violation of current laws, I support the outcome of a reversal in favor of the white men.
With that said, we need not forget, that this country has a 200 year history of Legalized Racial Discrimination, I surely hope that this one case doesn't loose sight of this fact.
White men were at the for front of Jim Crow laws, we know that the effects of these laws are still prevelant today, regardless is there's a African American occupying the white house.
The other third were black people. I love racist white people because they have balls. God bless all of you out there and may all of you and your families reap all from the universe that you deserve.
Guess this proves a "wise Latina woman" ain't qualified for Supreme Court, as she prefers to give special treatment to minorities.
Another wasted amount of money for this poll. Of course the firefighters should have recieved their promotion, but that is not what is in the books people. Republicans complain about judicial activism but you forget the Supreme court is the one who was doing the activism here- even richard posner of chicago went with the 3 member panel which included sotomayor and.......a REPUBLICAN...Get a grip folks
I agree that the firefighters were discriminated against. This is another example of a good intention paving the way to hell.
If a problem exists in society, should be punish those who are not a part of the problem? Why couldn't the minorities pass with high scores? I think the New Haven officials should have addressed that issue. It's too easy to hank the test and not address anything until some fire fighter decides to defend their rights.
discrimiantion, by definition, is "treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit". the firefighters were treated in the manner that they were based soley on their race, or rather on what race they were not. the city erred in their judgement, and in doing so created this entire mess.
Does anyone actually know what questions were on the exam? Every story that I see conveniently neglects to include any thing that would indicate whether or not the questions in the exam would be geared toward race and simply states that a bunch of white guys passed and bunch of individuals of a racial minority didn't pass. How can anyone form an opinion on information like that? It looks to me like people are hearing only what they want to hear.
Interesting. I've been watching and reading about this and have never seen any of the questions from the exam. I doubt the people responding to the poll have either. So, what do they base their decision on? How can any of us offer an opinion without having some knowledge of what we are talking about? This is what is wrong with America, let's inform ourselves before we open our mouths. I refuse to form an opinion on this until I know enough not to sound like an idiot.
It's about time things started changing, there has been too much reverse discrimination going on that goes unnoticed, but let some so called discrimination happen and it's all over the media. Affirmitive action needs to go away also. The playing field is level now.
Lost in the account was that 2 Hispanic firefighters also scored high enough to be considered for promotions, so clearly the issue wasnt that the test was biased against minorities.
How have minorities fared the previous ocassions the test was administered?
How many black/white/hispanic/asian/other races firefighters took the test and how many passed and what were their scores?
On the outside, without knowing the full details of the case, I would agree that the white fire fighters were unjustly denied an opportunity for a promotion.
ill informed people...black people don't make up a third of the US population so your comment about all blacks said it was unfair is dumb.
Fact: You can make a test that favors a certain group.. this has been proven time and time again. I am not saying this is what happened but the test should be evaulated .. If it was a fair test to ALL cultures and races in American.. then yes they were discriminated against.. by the way .. I am black.
Funny how the loudest voices for reverse discrimination are some of the most quiet voice's for traditional discrimination.. and truly doesn't it say alot when white people are discriminated against .. its called reverse...shouldn't just be called discrimination and since its not. then what group appears to have owner ship of discrimination.. think about before you respond
What is so complicated Vanessa? It's a simple straightforward issue. Everyone took the SAME TEST. They either passed it or they didn't. The promotion should go to the highest score. it's as simple as that. We all want the most qualified person in charge if our house were burning down.
As for the sampling, what are you implying? Somehow only white people were contacted by telephone? Now we have racial telephone screeing? Get real. It's people with attitudes like you who are part of the problem.
This kind of thing makes me so frustrated. I will fully admit that discrimination against minorities still exists in the world today, but I can't help but think that "equality" should not be the main focus in this situation. Firefighting isn't about race or gender, it's about saving lives. I don't care if the promoted firefighters are white, black, or have two heads; when my house is on fire and my family in danger, I want the most qualified people there leading the rescue.
I think that anyone who argued against the firefighters would feel differently if their family was in danger and less qualified people were sent simply because the city tried to make things "fair."
The problem is that we don't know if the test was fair or not. I am very skeptical of any written test that claims to be able to judge leadership. Leadership is not an academic quality.
The next step in this process is for the minorities who did not pass the test to challenge it. If the test is found to be fair, but their not passing it is based on them not being capable leaders, they need to know that. If it is biased because questions were inadvertently worded in such a way that a person with a 'white' male background would score higher (this has been demonstrated before on intelligence tests), then they should win just compensation for being passed over.
The idea that because a test was given, it had to be fair is ludicrous.
I am glad that the Supreme court fuled in favor of the whilte fire fighters, as it was simply the right thing to do. The general audacity of the City of New Haven in their actions void an entire block of test results out of sheer political stupidity – is interesting in itsef. The same test was given to all fire fighters, and as with the majority of tests given in any academic setting/civil service – you should not be rewarded for doing poorly, or not passing the accepted threshold. Isn't that the point of an evaluation? If the firefighters did not win, then it would send a message that unqualified individuals take precidence over those suited for the job. Race obviously should have nothing to do with it – its who is better suited to perform.