WASHINGTON (CNN) – Calling Democratic health care bills "seriously deficient on the issues of abortion and conscience," the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is urging priests around the country to speak out against the legislation from the pulpit this Sunday.
The conference - the leadership body of the Catholic Church in the United States - is distributing a flier to churches to insert in their weekly newsletters urging parishioners to contact their senators and representatives to ask them "to fix these bills with the pro-life amendments."
"The bills will have to change or the bishops have pledged to oppose them," the flier reads. "Our nation is at a crossroads."
Bishops are also planning to take out advertisements in diocesan newspapers with a similar message. "Americans would be forced to subsidize abortions through their taxes and health insurance premiums," the ad claims.
According to the language in the House health care bill unveiled Thursday, a government-run insurance option could cover abortions, but federal money would not pay for the procedure.
Abortion opponents dispute that and point to the non-partisan FactCheck.org, which wrote in late August that "private plans that cover abortion also could be purchased with the help of federal subsidies." Those subsidies, the site wrote, would be available to low and middle-income Americans who sign up for a public insurance option.
Abortion rights opponents in Congress, including Democratic Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan, have been pushing leaders to add stronger language prohibiting the use of federal money to pay for abortions under new health care reforms.
UPDATE: A spokeswoman for Rep. Lois Capps, a Democrat who crafted the abortion funding language in the House bill, stressed that public funding cannot be used to fund abortions. She said qualifying low and middle-income Americans will be able to buy into an insurance exchange where they will have access to at least one plan that does cover abortions services and one that does not.
Capps' office said federal and private funds are kept separately in the exchange: abortion services could be paid for by private funds generated by patient premiums, and no one would receive a federal subsidy directly to do so.
From CNN Politics
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So the Catholic Church can be added to the list with Republicans and Mormons as organizations who want American to die for lack of healthcare...it's the Christian way...
Well then, I suppose these churches no longer want their tax-exempt status?
We're a nation of laws and Roe V. Wade is law, legalizing abortion.
And speaking of laws, I thought churches weren't supposed to tell their parishoners how to vote.
We also have separation of church and state as explicitly spelled out in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Catch a clue, Catholic Church!
Give it a break. This rabid anti-abortion stance only serves to promote real murders, like that of the physician in Kansas who performed this form of health care for women.
My tax dollars are used to subsidize Religious institutions which I do not support. Maybe, religions should learn to be more tolerant of others views.
If they speak about this in their churches, won't they lose their tax-exempt status? Perhaps if they (and other churches) paid their fair tax share, health care for all could be an affordable reality. The Catholic Church has got some mighty deep pockets.
Here we go again, the Church smudging the line between separation of church and state. It's illegal for tax-exempt churches to preach this type of political campaign from the pulpit. Since no one seems to get in trouble over it means the Consitution is being ignored. I wish the people and the law would step up opposition. Doesn't matter the subject or whether I agree or not, its just wrong, like the Mormon church's financial and verbal involvement in California's proposition elections. Wrong, wrong, wrong
Before everyone gets their knickers in a knot, read the bill and then decide.
I've seen posted elsewhere that "death panels are back" in the House version of the bill.
Before all the ditto heads and Faux News lemmings start parroting their talking points, read page 129: There never was and never will be a provision for "death panels."
The bill does provide for advance care planning and explicitly states, "shall not promote suicide, assisted suicide,
euthanasia, or mercy killing."
So getting health care for almost 40 million more poor people (including children) is not that important to catholic bishops. Better to divide the country with culture wars.
I am here to speak out against Catholic Bishops and Priests. Keep your hocus pocus heavenly mumbo jumbo out of our government. I wouldn't trust a Catholic Priest or Bishop further than I could throw him. You are supposed to care for the welfare of the living FIRST. You have failed again miserably. Shut up, sit down or go away...we don't need you in this nation anymore.
Do these people also speak out against current insurance corporations that cover abortion, and hence force buyers to pay for strangers' abortions? Didn't think so! People tend to have different standards for government and private industry. I challenge you to apply the same criticism to your own health insurance company, and check whether they cover abortions. Chances are, they are in fact using your money for that! So if you're going to criticize government for POSSIBLY paying for something you don't want them to, you should also criticize your own current insurance company as well for what they are ALREADY doing. Fair is fair! (in fact, have you noticed that ALL of the criticisms of the future PLANS for government health insurance are for practices that the current insurance corporations are ALREADY guilty of? But people just love their double standards)
Those priests need to stick to praying and keep out of politics. They don't have the answers to what is right; they only think they do. For God's sake, they cannot clean up their own "House of God" so stay out of ours.
We need to get all religions out of this kind of debate. I am neither for nor anti abortion, I strongly felt it should be individual woman's decision. I am financially and emtionally secure so it is very easy for me to say I am against it.
Yes, the world isn't really overpopulated, is it?
We need America to be just like Bangladesh–only Catholic.
Come on, RC bishops... so many more pressing problems; I think Saint Francis would agree.
The Bill does not change the law on abortion. It does not promote nor hinder the practice. I thought that the portion on abortion is benign. It refers to federal health appropiations as guidance on what the public plan covers. Am I reading it wrong?
Do the churches these people represent receive "tax exempt" status?
If so, they have no business trying to legislate moral issues. Laws of the land and laws of God are different, and both need to be respected but not shoved down peoples' throats. No one is going to be forced to pay for or participate in abortion. But the church is trying to dictate how everyone lives...
Approximately 50% of all private health insurance providers cover abortion procedures. Where is the letter from the Bishops asking practicing catholics (I am one) to give up their private insurance?
Ah yes, the Catholic church. A progressive institution if there ever was one. Don't get me wrong, I think fetuses are great. Especially sauteed with a little garlic, butter and some fresh taragon. Have a nice day!
What part of no federal funds for the procedure do the single-issue miguided not understand? And what about Matthew 25, caring for our neighbors in need?
Not to mention, this seems to be an questionable infringement on IRS tax-exempt status.
It is ABSURD to oppose saving lies by way of a better healthcare system because of vague concerns (which, by the way, are unfounded!) about abortion!
I am Catholic, but this is just one more way in which my own religion is betraying me!
And..on a different matter; Catholic Church – what is its role in the process? I thought that the need of populus to blindly follow the quidance of local priesthood was done away with an upsurge in litteracy. Am I wrong again?
Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't this the SAME Catholic Church that refused to give similar pulpit pronouncements condemning the Holocaust while Jews were being shipped off in boxcars? Yeah...I think it is. I guess they have selective attention on issues that they consider to be central to their "values".
Additionally, they seem to be pathologically obsessed with fetuses. Where is the moral outrage from the Catholic Church about the millions of the "already-born" who literally DIE because they don't have access to basic healthcare. Again....the Catholic Church's values are directed at absolutely the wrong issue.
Bless them Father...for they have, indeed sinned.
The belief that a fetus or a zygote is a person is a religious belief. I find it offensive that they would have their religious belief legislated when Christianity already has such strong arm control of government perspective in general.
Don't want an abortion? Don't get one. Your belief that a fetus or zygote is a person is NOT universal and to force it on everyone is oppressive.
Typical of Catholics who also supported the death camps in Germany before WWII. They care more about unborn fetuses than living people. This is why I left the Catholic Church when I was 15 and never looked back.
Also, churches should be taxed just like other businesses. The have the best of both worlds, no taxes, but they don't honor the separation of church and state when it comes to our laws. The nerve of them!
First things first, where is the money coming from, we are broke so how much are the tax increases going to be
Whatever happened to the separation of Church and State? It is only convenient when the sitting President is republican.
And let the Dumb-o-CRAPS start bashing the Catholics in...3...2...1
So in other words, the Priests are taking bribes?
The law of the land? The catholic church thinks it's above the law...just check out how they've tried to protect their child-molesting priests from criminal prosecution under the law.
If the church is going to be a mouthpiece for the republican party, then treat them like a political party.
So let me get this straight...they are against abortions so the priest have more alter boys to molest. AH!!! Now it is perfectly clear!!!
Too bad the the Catholic Church is far from being a leading exemple...
Wasn'it only 14 months ago when their pope came over to the U.S to speak against priests who sexually abused children ???
Oh man, what happened to the separation of church and state? Oh well, I guess I get it, because if there was thing Jesus was against it was helping the sick.
Yes, let's tax the hell out of those churches! i was raised Roman Catholic and I was so Confirmed when I was an ignorant child. I am 70 now and I learned there is or was child molestation hell in too many churches. I say the state (government) should TAX THE HELL out of all churches.
What ever happened to separation of church and state?
Randolph Carter, I will say a prayer for you tonight. You are obvioiusly a very misguided, bitter man. As for the rest of you, what you don't understand is that this healthcare bill will be funded by taxpayers dollars. That means abortions that are covered under the plan will be funded by taxpayers dollars. That doesn't sit well with taxpayers who are opposed to abortion.
Take care of your pedophile and not politic
I am Catholic and I believe that the Church needs to stop interfering with the state. Healthcare reform is needed badly by Americans now.
The Republicans are holding on by a thin thread, They will try anything.
Look at the history of the church, WAR is their main "claim to fame", it does not care for YOU! No surprise they object to helping the people. Again, it's the Christian way!
Look at the history of the church, WAR is their main "claim to fame", it does not care for YOU!
No surprise they object to helping the people.
Their views on this would seem far less hypocritical if they voiced equal opposition to America's wars of choice and unconditional support of Israel.
Look at the history of the church, WAR is their main "claim to fame", it does not care for YOU!
Here we go: all the comments from LIBS that think that Christians are hypocrites because they dont support the reform that Liberals are offering. Of course, their reform is apparently the ONLY reform possible. It couldnt possibly be that people are against certain parts of the reform bill but are still in favor of universal coverage, etc.
So sick of the Left.
Please note that this is NOT the view of the Catholic Church. This is the view of a few Right-Wing nuts who just happen to be Bishops. These are the same morons who condemned Pres. Obama giving the speech at Notre Dame when the Vatican WELCOMED him and expressed joy that he would be delivering the commensement speech.
If you research this, you will find that the Pope and the Vatican itself in general is in approval of the health care bill. These guys are an embarrasment to the rest of us Catholics and should not be taken seriously.
I am a catholic, I refuse to listen to the Priests an or Bishops telling woman what they can do or can't do with their bodies........The Catholic Church is no better than the far right wing religious nut that support Palin.....they have for to long tried to mix church and state and now the Catholics are going to try to tell the federal government what we can and can not have in our Health Care Bill (as long as it is saving lives I would think that should be suffient)........the Priests need to tend to matters at hand that for to long have been an embarrassment to the Catholics around the world and that is keeping your pants zipped up and leave our atler boys and boys in the catholic church and schools alone........or do you think we have forgotten about that..........I think that is as much a sin as you think ABORTION is a sin
What happened to the separation of Church and State? Nothing wrong with what they are saying, just where. I would think not every single person sitting in the pews are 100% pro-life.
They should be saying these things outside of the church setting. They are asking priests to talk politics from their pulpits. That just doesn't seem right.
I think that the Pope and the Catholic Church should just stay out of the issue of healthcare reform and not interfere in civil/secular affairs. The church adds nothing of any significance to the debate and its opinions are irrelevant. The church does not decide social and healthcare policy in this country. The American people do!!
What's the matter mods, you afraid to post comments on your top story, you afraid your servers would blow up?
Um I think they need to close their mouth or pay taxes. Sounds like England in the 1500's. What ignorance.
stop meddling stupid cult!
To be fair, the Bishops Conference supports
health care reform. They are simply opposed to
reform that involves public spending for abortion.
Their position on healthcare includes:
– a truly universal health policy with respect for human
life and dignity
– access for all with a special concern for the poor and
inclusion of immigrants
– pursuing the common good and preserving pluralism
including freedom of conscience and variety of options
– restraining costs and applying them equitably across
the spectrum of payers
Why should a powerful hyperwealthy church whose leader wears jewels-encrusted hats and robes (a far cry from Christ indeed!) be exempt from paying taxes?! Guess they missed the part about "render unto Caesar what is due Caesar" while counting all those billions!
Whether or life begins in the womb is certainly a topic for debate.
When human misery begins is not.
Opposing a general initiative to provide health care for most citizens is certainly a point at which human misery and suffering will begin or grow worse. And this from a church that has worked tirelessly and courageously for generations to relieve human suffering.
God indeed works in strange ways.
Further proof that God does not want regular people to be healthy. Just rich people. Hey, they must be doing something the rest of us are not, or they would not be rich, right? Just like Rupert Murdoch. Thanks, priests for showing us the way.
I know and understand that it is difficult to accept THE FACT that life is nothing more than the result of a chemical reaction.
i know you want to believe that there is more to it, but it's not
I think it's a good thing that religion is taking a step in this. If we can't rely on our religious leaders, no matter the denomination, to help guide us in our political decisions as well as our spiritual ones, then who can we look too? I mean, obviously there's family and friends to take some serious consideration from, but their opinions may not be what God wants us to do. So heck, I support the Catholic church and their willingness and bravery to take a stand in this, and I just hope that other churches will too.
Republicans won't be happy with the world unless the world completely, and unequivically capitulates to their every demand.
Republicans will seek out any means of spreading their disinformation, be it church, "tea party", and radio and television program.
Republicans won't stop until they've convinced the world they're the true saviors of our society, economy, and policy.
If you disagree and are not a part of their idealogy you are debased and malinged.
Sounds like National Socialism with a a dash of Christian fundimentialism to me. Republicans think America is up for grabs.
The 'church' does not speak for US citizens and should not be involved in politics! It should not be pushing for legalization of illegal immigrants either.
It should be focused more on addressing its own internal moral issues that are far greater than letting a woman seek an abortion or having a blatant disregard to US law!
When the Catholic Church starts paying for their sex crimes against children they can talk about healthcare.
Catholic Church on the wrong side once more.
Organized religion working against humanity, what could be worse? Christ would be (is) ashamed ...... again.
Thank God ALL religious beliefs and faiths have nothing to do with our government.
I firmly believe in the "Separation of Church and State" and don't care what the Catholic Church has to say about anything involving government. I do have a question for the Catholic Church–When are you going to clean your own house? If the religions in this country are going to continue to interfer with the government, I am going to demand that my representatives introduce legislation to start taxing the churches, synagogues, temples, etc.
its always about abortion where is the church with the unwanted kids that
are out there on the streets why don't they solve that problem, oh thats right lets leave that issue with the tax payers who are paying for social workers and the jails that these kids wined up in I don't see them living in a catholic house PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH if you don't want abortion then take care of the unwanted kids that are out there first by giving every child a loving home
Yes, speak out against this legislation and get the flock to pressure their representatives because it goes against the religious belief. However, when it comes to tax-exemption status, then it's "oh, we gotta have that – separation of church and state". Typical religious zealots, pick and choose, pick and choose.
If a woman does not want an abortion then she won't have one!!
The Catholic Church transferred the pedophile priests for years so they could attack innocent children. The Catholic Church offers sanctuary to illegal people living in our country. Not exactly what I would call “holier than thou” in their beliefs. Our nation was founded on the sound principal of separation of church and state.
I see. When someone mentions abortion, the libs want to tell them not to impose their morality upon them.
But when it comes to their causes, it's a moral imperative.
Hypocrisy runs both ways.
As an ex-Catholic, lets all pray for the Church to die a quick death. We could feed the world if we sold the Vatican.
The great Health-care "reform" scam of 2009. They just can't wait to get their hands on all the Medicare cash.
Obamacare: pulling the plug – one grandma at a time.
Oh Pleez! The Catholic Church no longer is a viable institution. It has grown politicized, therefore, should not be eligible for tax exemption status. How dare they make judgments based on "Gods Law", yet have harbored pedophiles for centuries and have approved,through remaining quiet, genocide and pedophilia. How on God's good earth can they remain silent during the most atrocious times in history and then suddenly become a voice to others. They are one of the wealthiest institutions in the world, through our tax dollars and fear-mongering. Although my name is posted in the Vatican, I shall never fall prey to these wolf's in sheeps clothing. How can the Catholic Church voice an opinion when they are responsible for some of the most evil, deadliest times in history. May God save our Earth. Tina in Tempe
Sounds like political speech from the molester haven.
Tax them.
So yet again the catholic faith is cutting off its nose to spite its face? Instead of saving thousands upon thousands of people a year and taking a step towards bettering the lives of millions we once again take the stance of "once you're born we don't care about you anymore".
Why doesn't the Catholic church stick to doing things it does well" like molesting children? Maybe that is why they oppose abortion – fewer kids to practice their pedophile ways on.
The Catholic Church has no business in this issue. When I attend services it's not to be told what to vote for. My vote is secret.
One question...
If stronger language is put in the legislation to oppose abortion, will these same Bishops take out ads in support of the bill?
Jesus taught us that we were supposed to help the sick. Not build great monuments as that was a sign it's leaders worshiped false gods.
As a Catholic, I am continually ashamed of the church leadership and it's anti-humanitarian, sexist and pathologically reactionary politics. Personally I'd prefer if the church stayed out of politics, but when it does choose to jump in it really ought to be on the side of morality. Against universal health care is their moral judgement? Really? Really?
Maybe the Catholic Church should start to look at the issue of Celibacy!
Let Priests marry and increase the number of parisheners. Stop Priests from on line Porno collecting – like recently in Canada. This might be a more important health issue for the Catholic Bishops to tackle.
So, what's new with that? "Moral Majority" churches in states like Missouri, Oklahoma, and the rest of the so-called "Bible Belt" have had political messages on their mega-church signs for decades... all funded by taking "offerings" and then using them for political purposes or for living the wealthy lifestyle.
Tax-exempt status for churches that do ANYTHING political should be REMOVED, period. What a farce! Like the whole "trickle-down" just don't make us pay taxes say the rich folk and we'll make you rich, too....
BS! We all know what trickles down and it sure ain't money!
Separate of church and State? Churches are not taxed for a reason – When they start telling their "faithful" on what to be believe on the political landscape, they should loose their tax-exempt status.
I don't like paying for wars with my tax dollars or paying subsidies so lazy red necks in Oklahoma get a handout.. Thts life, deal with it.
Looks like the church has vast investments in the insurance industry, it figures.
The Catholic Church is about as corrupt as our government; But at the same time if you want to kill you children the rest of us don’t want to pay for it. Put the literature in the bill.
We are still struggling to bring our health care system into the 21st century. Although a third-world country such as India has managed in the space of less than half a century to go from a new nation attempting to deal with the health care of over 300 million citizens (most of them dirt poor) to becoming a major global player, supplying universal health care to their people and serving as a major supplier of pharmaceuticals, etc., while we are still struggling as the richest nation on earth with taking proper care of our own. We’ve allowed anyone with a voice and pocketbook to sway attitudes and frighten away reform. Aside from the for-profit health insurance industry to the deep-pocketed pharmaceuticals, we can add the Catholic Church, who should not have a place at this table because their interests are too intrinsically tied to their religion in this matter.
I think it’s time for the government to get brave and take a stand here. Abortion is a legal MEDICAL procedure, and as such, poor women should not be denied care because the Church doesn’t want them to have I, based on a religious point of view. As long as abortion is legal (thank heavens), the Church should not be able to meddle in any women being able to get the procedure because she is too poor. The fact is that in many cases, there is no rape or incest and yet still a need for the procedure from a medical point of view. It is a decision to be made between doctor and patient. And as with all medical advice, if the doctor feels there is a medical reason to have such a procedure, a woman can make up her own mind as to whether to follow that medical advice. I know of a woman who decided not have the abortion she was advised to have. Yes, she had the baby and she was dead a year later from her cancer. What is a case of doing an abortion to save a mother’s life? There was no way to know whether it would actually kill her, but from a medical point of view, an abortion was indeed recommended for medical reasons. This is an intricate enough issue without the Church trying to force its beliefs down the throats of everyone who does not believe as they do.
This is the same Catholic church, mind you, that everyone was afraid might take over America during JFK's administration. Now we're asking them to weigh-in on Health Care. An organization that opposes science and logic?
The same religion that gets to transfer their would-be child sex offenders to another church in lieu of jail time or having to register as a sex offender?
They don't even pay taxes, a core piece of this argument.
This is no longer a country that values logic over hear-say...
Why are they against preventing the deaths of how many uninsured Americans every year? Why aren't they against euthanasia? I thought they're "pro-life". Why aren't they against guns??
What's the Catholic Church's policy on coverage for sexual abuse counseling?
I think many of these comments are taking the story a little out of context. I'm a non-practicing Catholic and all I see is the Church essentially doing what it has always done, promote a pro-lif stance. As far as an actual public option there doesn't seem to be any opposition to that in the article, and the Church isn't backing or supporting any political candidate directly, as I think you'll notice a Democratic Senator from Mich. has a similar view.
Oh and for the record a pro-choice, Pro gay-marriage Repulican.
No shortage of baby killers here. I am not a religous person but do have children. An abortion is hardly a healthcare issue since you reach the condition through choice and, usually, giving birth is not life threatening to the mother. I have no problem with the availability of the procedure, but pay your own way for a change.
I'm so glad to see so many pointing out that the church is meddling in state business and as such should have their tax exempt status revoked.
I really wonder how the church would react if their tax exempt status was revoked over this behaviour. Do you suppose they would stick with their current stance or do you think they would choose money over principle? I suspect such a move would show the true color of the church as I believe they would choose the money.
I left the church many long years ago due to the hypocrisy. I've seen first hand the way the church treated people who could not afford to pay their tithes. I would like nothing more than to see the church or any other religious org loose that tax exempt status for meddling in polotics.
It is sad to see that religious dogma puts the welfare of actual living people behind their scientifically unproven belief that a fetus is a living being.
Most of the people sitting in these Catholic churchs are Republicans that would complain about health care reform anyway so to tell the sheep how to vote is like ..well "preaching to the choir"
Let them skirt the line of church and state. Everyone here seems to know this is all BS. If they were to forego their tax free status and start paying taxes, preaching politics from the pulpit would be the least of our problems. They would literally insert themselves into our government.
Preaching politics from the pulpit.
That should take away their tax exempt status.
I thought quite a number of years ago, the Pope had decided that priests were not supposed to get involved in politics. I imagine this doesn't apply to bishops who apparently spend most of their time getting immersed in political issues. And here is my problem: I wonder what ever happened to the proclamation of the Gospel???? One never seems to hear it from the Roman Catholic Bishops.
Well Duh! EVERYONE knows that Jesus hated the poor and suffering so of course he would be against healthcare reform. Makes perfect sense don't you agree?
Although not a practicing Catholic myself, I do believe that they are being consistent on the point that they do not support legalized abortions and they do not support using their money (via taxes) to perform them. Maybe you could compare it to using taxpayer money to help subsidize the purchase of a football team by Rush Limbaugh. It would be legal, but would you be happy if they did it?
All this hate speach from you is not suprising being the liberals you are.
Answer me this if you can. A Fetus or whatever you want to call it, if not MURDERED in the womb is born a human being...why are all you people for murdering your own children and abetting others to murder theirs? This is not about choice, this is about a person's convenience. They have already made that decision when they have unprotected sex. The stats of abortions performed on rapes or insceast or life of mother are miniscule. This is the most cruel sort of child abuse next to child molestation.
RE:Randolph Carter, I'm no expert, but.... October 30th, 2009 12:57 pm ETAh yes, the Catholic church. A progressive institution if there ever was one. Don't get me wrong, I think fetuses are great. Especially sauteed with a little garlic, butter and some fresh taragon. Have a nice day! CNN thinks this is FUNNY?
let's all pray for the souls of the catholic bishops and priests..........THEY need it............
TIme to take away the tax exempt status of these churches. They are clearly engaging in political activity.
WOW Everybody wants health care and they all want it their way. Well folks there's bad news in the pipe line for you all.
YOU AIN'T GONNA GET HEALTHCARE REFORM.
Now the question is why not. Simply put America, we are not at the Drive-In Window of Burger King placing Health Care orders for every person in the country. Since this isn't Burger King, you don't get it your way. While some want it free, others want abortions included and others don't. Some want cut rates while others want a Caddy Plan. Some want no deductibles while others want no co-pays. Some members of congress want special items in the health care bill for their state
These are just a few items on the shopping list of things people want in the proposed health care bill. Well Americans while we sit here and argue like fools over every little piece of the pie and who gets how much of it, the wolves (Insurance Companies, Lobbyist, Drug Companies and members in our Senate and House that are on the payroll of these big companies) are working hard to keep us off message and off topic and they are fighting to keep us arguing with each other while they quietly go about their business of killing health care. They are quietly working to make this bill so expensive that none of us would be willing to pay for it. Yes, since they can't stop the bill, they are now working to gored us into laying on the fat possible to the bill so as to cause it’s cost to rise to a point that we will kill it ourselves. They got us to fighting among ourselves, which is not a hard thing to do with Democrats, and then they quietly nudge us on and edge us on until we have beaten ourselves. That is about the only advantage Republicans have over anyone else. Once they make a decision to go in one direction, it makes no difference what is ahead of them, they will follow that chosen person right off a cliff if it will accomplish their goal. People you had better wake up quickly or you we will find ourselves in a pool of quicksand from which we can't extract ourselves. We are spending like there is no tomorrow and at the rate we are spending, there will not be a tomorrow and Republicans don't care as long as they get their tax breaks and their war.
The catholic church is worried that if you don't have children the priests won't have anyone to molest.
I am a Pro-Choice (not pro-abortion) Catholic who goes to mass every Sunday. It is perfectly within right of the Church to offer it's guidelines/opinions to the faithful during mass. There is nothing wrong with the Church telling it's members that they should contact their legislators with concerns about what is in this legislation. I (as well as others) do not need to heed their call. As for other comments regarding the Catholic Church, the list sins is long and inglorious. Complicity in the Holocaust is a regretable piece of history, as are the Inquisition, the sacking of Byzanteum, the Crusades, and the events leading to the Great Schizm and Reformation; but they have no bearing on the topic of the day. The Church is imperfect because it is run by human beings, perfection is not in our nature but with God's grace perfection may be attainable.
Little boys do not need to be treated with public healthcare after some jerk priest sodomizes them. Its the true catholic way
This acts to reaffirm my wisdom in having left the Catholic church. It has lost touch with the teachings of the Lord and with people of conscience. This is one of their more irrational stances, as abortions are relatively cheap and even poor people can afford them. But regular preventative care? Treatment of serious illness or injury – not a chance.
The solipsistic patriarchy of the Catholic church goes from bad, to worse, to stupefyingly outrageous.
For God's sake, JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To all you rabid anti-Catholics (who are first in line to support the right of Moslems to impose, on pain of death, 11th century practices):
I can suggest a group for you to look into joining. It's called the Ku Klux Klan – they hate "popery" too! You'd fit right in!
You know the day the public persona of priests became little more than pedifiles, I lost all credibility with them. For them to have a voice about "abortion" is ridiculous until they come up with a voice about PEDIFELIA (SP).
Tax the Church if it is going to be a political and not a religious organization.
Has anyone noticed that the Catholic Bishops (and all the rest of the hierarchy) are all men? If bishops could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament, supported by high taxes on women,s hygiene products.
start dropping the unwanted born for what ever reason off at your local church not paying taxes they must be loaded with money to take care of them
That's why I'm no-longer Catholic ,
I can no-longer believe the Sun rotates around the Earth or using a condom is a sin !
Typical Republican move....run to the church to help support your views. Church and state are septerate. The GOP has become desperate!!
Seriously, a church has EVERY right to speak for or against issues. This is settled law. As long as they aren't specifically promoting a candidacy from the pulpit, they are alright. If you find it necessary to be liberal...fine. But at least speak according to settled law. Talking about stripping tax status' is rediculous especially since ACORN does far more to support candidates then the Catholic church does and they still keep their status.
If the Catholic Church wants to influence legislation, then it better agree to become a taxable organization.
The United States is not a theocracy, and should not pass legislation on the basis of religious docrtine.
Mauiharper. The nerve of you taking away my rights.
And these people call themselves Priests?
How very pathetic when it is clearly obvious that children, the elderly and the poor are dieing largely because they have no health insurance whatsoever, nor can they afford any health insurance.
Rather than promote that blessing upon the living, these so-called, self-titled Priests are ignoring the fact that far more children and homeless individuals lose their lives to diseases that could have been reversed if they had proper medical attention beforehand.
This is yet another pathetic attempt to mix Republican Agendas with so-called spiritual morality and ethics.
These Churches should immediately lose their tax exempt Status, and these Priests should be carefully monitored for any hate speech. If they spew out any hate speech which encourages any of their followers to blowup abortion clinics or murder abortion doctors, those Priests must be held accountable for causing those actions.
A. Smith
Oregon
Since when is this really any major church issue....typical Catholic move...and I'm Catholic.!
Die quickly folks and we will not need Health Care Reform.
This is a direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus and a power grab for folks with ideals not far from the Taliban in wanting a theocracy.
If the government can not manage the H1N1 vaccine supply how in the world can the manage healthcare?
Imagine how long you will wait to see a doctor!
Whatever happened to the founding fathers principle of separation between Church and State?
This coould cost these religionists more than they ever imagined. It is totally unimpressive that these people would fight tooth and nail over this issue to the detriment and even death of uninsured people with life threatening illnesses, young and old alike. This is not "right to life" or "respect for life" or a "seamless" approach. This is simply a revealed preference for zygotes, an exemplar of something that does not challenge the authority of eccleiastical natalists. And thats what this anti-abortion issue is all about; the control of anyone who does not agree with their policy via any sort of control of the must ultimate part of human privacy.
I guess it shouldn't be amazing to see all of the anti-Catholic spewing on the Communist News Network site. Abortion is killing of a human being in development. That is a fact, not some religious superstition. If you had been aborted, you wouldn't be alive right now, you'd be dead. Your life would've started inside the uterus of your mother and your life would have been ended by an artificial means invoked by your mother.
Why is it so hard for you liberals to see the truth, regardless of religion? Some of you even claim to be intellectual. How about getting some common sense with your super high IQ?
Government should not pay for the killing of innocent humans in the womb, in Iraq, in Afghanistan or anywhere else. If the liberals in the Senate and House who crafted this bill really wanted no govt. funded abortion, they'd put it in the bill. The loophole is still there.
Thank you Catholic Bishops for standing up for the unborn and elderly. God knows the libs are just looking out for their own.
The catholic church should worry more about its pedophile priests first. They don't have the credentials to speak about this matter.
This new Catholic Church has become political and needs to lose its tax exempt status. We have separation of church and state and this conflict with our laws and Constitution. Stay out of our government and we will stay out of your church.
This is utterly ridiculous. What will it take for the US government to revoke their tax-exempt status for political stances? Oh, I know. A miracle.
I am ready to petition my Congressional representatives to start developing legislation that will start taxing churches – ALL CHURCHES! Churches are no longer involve in teaching about spiritual or religious matters but now are spewing all kinds of political nonsense in these institutions. So, they are no longer churches but social venues under the cover of the church.
I'm a Catholic and as soon as these priests and bishops stop abusing children, people may listen to what they have to say. Until then, butt out of people's personal lives. On second thought, butt out anyway.
I'm a cattholic but amthinking of changing to non denomination beacause of these lunitics who think it's alright to condem innocent people to death over something that doesn"t exist. What would Jesus do?
Between this comment, and priests telling their flocks who to vote for during the 2004 election, the catholic church should lose its tax-exempt status – 5 years ago!
You are *always* count on the bishops of the Catholic Church to fight against justice and to help the privileged at the expensse of the poor and downtrodden.
And churches really should be taxed because they are just one more group of lobbyists protecting their turf.
If we can't protect the unborn than who will? Abortion is not health care unless the mother's life is in danger. If you can give a valid explanation to an unborn whose life you terminated when you leave this earth than you had every right to perform the abortion.
I am a Catholic , I am a woman , I am a mother and I believe I am a good person . I am once again appalled , angry and embarressed by the Catholic Church especially in the USA . I want my children and grandchild to have a sene of spirituality as Catholics in the true sense of the world as peacmakers , as caring for the poor and disenfranchised , the week the poor regardles of religion , color credd and life style as we are all children of God !
Seperation of state and religion is an essential element of democracy and can not be used to suite a situation such as when JFKennedy was elected President . One can not have it both ways .
Individual rights and responsilities are also an inherent element . Free will is a belief and allows choice , therefore forgiveness personal between God and self .
Yes where was the Church in terms of the past 8 years of war , torture , lies , genicide etcv etc etc not to mention WW 2 /Bosnia .
My goodness , who and what is the rc Church ! Please stop the political interference and hidden adgenda ... this is your President , your elected government trying to introduce the USA to the principles of the right to health care !
Here we go again. If these churches are "tax exempt" maybe the IRS needs to check into them. If they are a front for the republican party, then strip them of their "tax exempt". Why is this the main topic anyways? Seems like it always comes to the forfront during elections. Maybe they should take some of their energies and start with the idea of promoting safe sex etc., nope they got their noses in it after the fact. And if abortion is such a big issue for them, then get all the members of ALL the churches in the US to start a fund to take care of these babies after they are BORN, or is their concern only when the child is in the womb, and then they are forgotten!!!! Let see if these same churches are willing to do that, then you will see who the true christians are.
I urge all people on conscience to withhold thier weekly contribution to the Catholic Church anytime you disagree with what they are saying from the pulpit. The only thing the church leadership understands is money! Until we hit them in the pocketbook there will be no change at the Vatican.
It is ultra-right wing blathering like this that has lead our family to stop going to mass. Minister to the people for God Sake- not to Fox News! The people DO include the poor without the health insurance priests and bishops get, in case you have forgotten your Gospel!
"Shut up, sit down or go away...we don't need you in this nation anymore."
What an arrogant, Obama-esque, statement...
Who are the "we" in this statement? Are only the people who agree with you allowed to be in "your" nation? If the rest of us just shut up and sit down can we stay here?
This is what irritates me about the republican party, their stance on moral and personal issues. If it wasn't for that I would be a republican rather than a democrat because I agree with the republicans on fiscal policy.
These churches should be stripped of their tax exempt status.
If they are going to ignore separation of church and state, they shouldn't be tax exempt.
this guys need to fix their bishops and priest who are sleeping with boys and innocent children; while calling the name "holy father!"
the catholic church audacity of hipocrisy!!!
The Catholic Church needs to just shut up! Everything is George Bush's fault! After what Bush did, Americans deserve to suffer. You all need to shut up, trust President Obama and do whatever he wants.
Republicans are the American Taliban wrote:
"So the Catholic Church can be added to the list with Republicans and Mormons as organizations who want American to die for lack of healthcare...it's the Christian way..."
There really is LITTLE difference between Catholics, Mormons, Republicans and the Taliban...except who each group believes should be beaten up and killed for the greater good.
Religion is an opiate of the Masses. If Obama and the dems had any stones, they'd REVOKE their tax exempt status, and KICK THE PRIESTS TO THE CURB.
No progressive should be religious, and certainly not a catholic.
After years of thoughtful reflection, I somewhat uncomfortably came to the conclusion that ALL religions (even atheism) are utter and hopeless nonsense. And this is just another example from my former faith.
If there were any true value to religion, there would be some kind of "proof in the pudding", so to speak. But no – religion is mainly a handy cover for fratricide; think of "ethnic cleansing", for example. Organized religion is responsible for more deaths than any other phenomenon throughout all of history. The more pious, the more killing.
Are there people who live good, faith-motivated lives? Of course. Are they the rule? Certainly not! But why not? Because they really don't buy it except for the occasional hour or so each sabbath.
One would have to wonder how any faithful Christian manages to stay alive. After all, with the promise of all that heaven is supposed to offer, who could reasonably be expected to wait to get there? Could it be that they really don't believe it when it comes right down to the short hairs?
And finally, there is great truth in the old saying that nothing creates an atheist faster than a close read of the ENTIRE Bible. It is great sport to watch the "faithful" gyrate in and out of the hot seat while trying to accept this part of the Bible over another part which obviously and entirely contradicts the first. It has been stated by objective historical biblical scholars who KNOW that there are almost certainly more errors in the Bible than there are WORDS!
Good luck with faith.
Hypricrites. Isn't this the same bunch of perverts that have been molesting boys over the last 75 years? The catholics think that just because they start shooting off their hyprcritcal mouths all religions should listen to me, this is the last denomination I would give a second glance to, they are a bunch of clowns.
What?!? Private insurance covers abortion. If the federal government wants to provide subsidies to poor people so they can buy private insurance, the church is against that? How can this be? Does the church think it's okay to buy that same insurance if you can afford it without help? I can't believe the Catholic Church has stooped so low to be against helping poor people get healthcare. This is truly sad.
I'm Catholic, and I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't like killing babies, however young. You're right, we do care for the living first. Babies in the fetal stage are alive. If they're not, how do they grow? If they're not, did each and every one of us magically become alive when we exited our mother's bodies? It's not that we don't want 40 million people to have insurance. We just don't want having abortions to become a procedure like a nose job, as in no big deal, it's funded too so why not? Lastly, the same church that wouldn't speak out about the Holocaust? Yeah because all the people who were alive and railing 70 years ago are still kicking and hate Jews a ton. That's like saying you're bad because you're great-great-grandpappy did something bad. Grow up.
Those of us who do not believe in big government and big taxes need to find a way to divorce this belief in how government should be run from the belief in God.
They don't belong together–not anymore than it belongs with Democrats.
Religious beliefs are not negotiable political points.
It is true that Republicans are in danger of becoming viewed as "religious extremists" and I, personally, don't want those wack jobs in the same political party I'm in any more than I'd want an Islamic Radical.
The Church certainly can have an opinion but it is wrong that it ever falls on any political side.
For example, if you believe abortion is wrong FINE/GREAT EVEN! but you don't get to tell people what to do with their own body even if you think it's wrong–seriously, how full of yourself are you if you think you can? Even God gave mankind free choice–everyone is allowed to make their own good and bad choices by God so why is this even an argument? One side who believes in God should believe that God will take care of/judge/punish (if that's what you believe) people who do things like this and the other side–people who don't believe in God, don't believe in God.
The fact that the Church is corrupt and a bunch of pedophiles might make you a little leery about listening to it's political advice too.
I believe the founding fathers got this right and we need to rediscover the truths we hold to be self-evident and put the common good before the personal good.
Separate Church and State.
Speak Freely, but speak the truth.
Be tolerant of others. If you disagree about something with someone, let them make their own mistakes and find their own successes.
Live your own life.
it's a shame the federal government doesn't have the stones to take away the tax-exempt status of these groups. not that i think they should have had tax exempt status in the first place. but, i am tired of these churches being used as political advertising for right-wing causes. as if jesus would NOT want people to have health insurance ? well, the church has been corrupt since day 1. why stop now ?
The Catholic Church will garner my respect the day they awknowledge that a condom is a good thing.
Things the catholic church approves of; pediphilia in their priests, unwanted pregnancies which lead to child abuse, over- crowding, starvation, and taxing the social services system to the extreme. Now death by lack of health care can be added to this list. How CHRISTIAN of the catholic church.
Seperation of church and state where art thou?????
As to which Catholic church this one is, it's the one that spent about at least fifty years protecting pedophile Catholic priests.
Closeted, irrelevent, power obsessed noise-makers – those bishops, pandering to a small but vocal, conservate minority. Many of these guys entered seminary at age 12 because they couldn't fit in with their peers. Now they still have trouble functioning in social settings. So they found a niche with the right-wing catholics who kiss their rings and treat them like kings. I suppose it explains why they put so much of their energy into advancing the agenda of those who kiss up and pad their pockets.
Hey bishop – try removing the log in your eye before taking the splinter out of mine.
... if they are willing to support all, these ( fetuses) , soon to become children, soon to become adults, with their tax exempt money. Then, they could speak on the subject of ,health care. or any issue concerning birth control.,
That "Americans would be forced to subsidize abortions through their taxes and health insurance premiums" is only a tiny part of the problem with this idiocy–the real problem is that working Americans would be forced to subsidise the medical expenses of people too irresponsible, improvident, or indolent to pay their own bills. That's just plain unfair to those of us who actually work for a living, and actually, however reluctantly, pay taxes.
What???!!!!! So the Catholic is coming out AGAINST the 45,000 people who die every year because they don't have health insurance??!!!! If the Catholic Church is going to meddle in the politics of this country it should lose it's tax exempt status! This is one of the most disgusting things the Catholic Church as done and there is a long, long list to choose from!
The Catholics have a moral responsibility to speak out against issues which they feel threaten their beliefs. Call your Congressmen and tell them not to change the language if you feel strongly about it. We all act on our political beliefs everyday and I'm not sure why we have to become crazy angry when the Catholic Church does the same thing. It's no different than moveon.org or the NRA crying out against legislation. Whether or not we agree with the opposition does not silence them – come on.
Well the same Catholic Church who was collaborating with Nazis, doesn't recognize kids fathered by priest all around the world, has a kind of "black out with priest practicing incest, sexual intercourse with minors and abusing they power with uneducated people..ie in Africa). When the church will start taking car of all those businesses we will be able to give you the right to talk about women rights.
What ever happened to seperation of church and state?
Priests better not say a word, once a non-prof takes a political side it loses its non-prof benefits....
what can you expect from this religious republican branch when they have three moron running for presidency not believing in evolution.
I think Health care industry is donating money to this catholic churches.
Just one more reason why this "Catholic" will never come home!
Can we get some referendum going to revoke ALL religion's tax-exempt status???? Please!
I think I will email my congresswoman's office right now. I suggest everyone contact their representatives and DEMAND that all religions lose their tax-exempt status. Time to change the tax codes.....perhaps, this may help fund healthcare reform!
SHAME on all of you MORONS very quick to blame the Catholic just accept the AMERICAN People don't want the public options. The only ones is the MORONS Liberals that keeps sticking they nose on everything. The Conservative want their country back!!!! so liberals UP YOURS!!!!!!! and get out of the greatest country in the world the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Stop destroying the American value and take your liberals view to RUSSIAN, AND CHINA!!! GET OUT OF THE USA.
Ha, what was this article linked to the Huffington Post or something? What's with all the liberal haters? Barack Obama has repeatedly said the same thing as the Catholic Church, no federal funding for abortions in the health care bill. This whole issue is because neither the House nor the Senate leadership will allow an amendment explicitly barring abortions to be brought and voted on by members of Congress. The extreme left is attempting to gag over 65% of Americans who don't want abortion funding in the bill . Now that's democratic.
"Those subsidies, the site wrote, would be available to low and middle-income Americans who sign up for a public insurance option."
The way I read this statement is that they are against subsidies for low and middle income Americans. Put the whole abortion nonsense aside, they are against subisdizing the poor.
I suriously do not think Jesus would approve of that.
The Government needs to reverse all churches "anti-trust exemption" just like the insurance industry, they are no different than lobbyist.
ok. just to clear up some things since there is so much twisting of the facts. It is not illegal or against the constitution for the church or church leaders to speak out about their beliefs on this or any issue. Also, Separation of Church and State as spelled out in the Constitution doesn't prevent them from speaking out on this (it is more a prohibition on the state supporting a religion, not a relgion supporting the state). The only thing really at risk is the churches tax exempt status, but were the current administration or congress to even hint at this there would be a major outcry among the populace (surprising how silent they were when bush was promoting christian religion as the solution). So basically the church is just a bunch of hypocrites, but no surprise there..
If they do this, then they should lose their exempt tax status! This is one confused and corrupted institution. I hope they send out the same flyers warning children to stay away from some their perverted priests!
Holding back healthcare for millions of people because of a handful of phantom abortions? Sure doesn't sound like the actions of a "compassionate" religion to me.
What a bunch of misguided pedophiles, not sure which is worst, the lying Republicans or the Catholic Church, both have proven to be liars of the worst kind. If they want to stick their nose in politics, they should be taxed or shut up.
I'm so sick of these anti-abortionists. People are having babies they can't afford, killing the children they never wanted. Granted, they should've used protection but NOTHING is 100%. When these folks are asking for a handout, on welfare or robbing killing and stealing to feed the kids the didn't want in the first place, these are the same folks who"ll say they shouldn't have had kids if they knew they couldn't afford it. Let them have their abortions! The ultimate and most important judgement is between them and their G-d.
The Catholic church should lose its tax-exempt status if it interferes with this POLITICAL process. This is yet more proof that the Bishops and Pope are so lost in their vain-glorious, self-absorbed sense of importance, that they haven't got a clue what Jesus really taught, nor have they a clue as to the meaning of SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. I find it so odd that they claim to be the spritual leaders of our collective moral conscience, but they would rather let millions of LIVING human beings suffer without the necessities of health care, than support a bill that doesn't address their self-serving definition of life. I think their time might be better spent, keeping their priests away from little boys. As Jesus once said of the spiritual leaders of his time, "You are a brood of vipors and hippocrits!." It applies today every bit as much as it applied to the religious leaders of 2000 years ago. Some things never change.
Jesus wept.
If the Catholic church is now promoting political views then the government should make them start paying taxes. There is still separation between church and state. TAX THEM!
The belief that a fetus or a zygote is a person is a religious belief.
Yeah, science on the other hand, clearly shows the a fetus or a zygote is a chicken.
Most health plans also pay for contraception – both the permanent and the "one-time" use variety. BOTH/ALL forms of contraception are banned in the Catholic Church ... where is the moral outrage to that? Oh, it’s not as sexy as the Abortion BS ... I get it...
SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE – Obviosuly the Catholic overloards in America aren't familiar with the way we do things here in the US of A. Perhaps we should take away their tax exempt status to make the point.
122 more Americans died yesterday and will again today, tomorrow and every day after because they could not afford health care. And what do these Catholic hypocrites bleat out – Stop health care reform with a strong public option because they think it pays for abortions.
A word of advise to the self rightous hyporites that run the Catholic mafia here in the US – Wash the blood from your hands for supporting the Holocust and pedophilia before you go around trying to take away a woman's freedom of choice about how to use her body and condemning Americans that can't afford health care to their deaths.
And one more thing Catholic clergy – We don't take orders on how to run our government from mullahs, rabbis or evanglicals either. Deal with it ...
Those that use the 'separation of church and state' argument to try to silence a religious group's right to speak out against legislation doesn't understand what is meant by 'separation...'. First of all, the phrase isn't in the Constitution, and second, the founders meant that there will be NO STATE SPONSORED RELIGION (which there isn't).
All groups, including Catholics, have the right to oppose legislation that they don't agree with. (I'm not Catholic).
Note: We can have reform without the unsustainable Obama/Pelosi takeover of heathcare. We all (conservatives and dems) want good affordable healthcare.
I believe if they want to get involved in politics, there tax the bastards. Will solve the deficit problem.
Times like this make me ashamed to be a Catholic. The Bishops seem to want to misinform to promote their own agenda rather than follow the teachings of Jesus to take care of the less fortunate. [deep sigh]...
The dangers of religion...
Catholic Church? They supported the Holocaust, they supported "colonization" in Africa, they DIDn't send fliers against Bush and republicans for refusing to support the Children Insurance to show how pro-life they are. What time they have for God when they are spending time behind little boys and girls? Remember Dr. Gibson of Focus on Families who asked his followers to pray for rain during Democratic convention! It didn't rain that day and Mr. Gibson is now Prophet of BAAL.
Virginia
I have often wondered why those on the right always claim they want smaller goverment, for goverment to BUTT OUT of their personal lives, YET have no problem telling a woman she has to carry a child for 9 months no matter how the child was made, even if it was due to a savage crime, and also tell them who they can or can not marry. To me THESE are personal issues and goverment should not have any say so in it. On the other hand goverment should not pay for these personal decisions either. Seems that the latter is the big worry here.
Wait... they're concerned about saving lives (i.e. fetuses) at the expense of ...lives (i.e. People who are sick and die from not being able to afford healthcare)??
Why are these so-called Christians screaming they believe in Jesus for everything and yet don't follow ANY of his teachings (heal the sick, help the poor)!?!?
And why are they ignoring the memo of the hide amendments that prevent abortions being funded by tax payers??
What on earth makes them think abortion is some off-handed sport that girls opt for because they're bored? Trust me, no woman on the planet doesn't think it through and bear the consequences. To assume as much is an insult to womankind.
These are the same zealots that claim they value life yet were fervent in the war against Islam when we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.
No wonder why they love Republicans and Conservative voters... hypocrites can't get enough of each other's company!!
Dear Think Again: Here is a NEWS FLASH: There never were "death panels" in any health care legislation. Not then, not now, not ever.
I am so smiling....God's people have arised! Our President gave HIS WORD that no abortion will be paid for by federal dollars...yet this has not been outlined with the t's and i's, in writing, to any bills presented so far....it will not pass without this condition met. God's spirit is sweeping over this nation and waking the nation to him...he is no fool....His wrath is great despite his patience. CNN...priests also include many leaders of many denominational and no demoninational groups as well, along with their parishoneirs..be a little honest in your story writing.
So, is the church a lobbiest now? A political action committee? Just curious.
Wow, I just read a bunch of hate-filled lib comments. Misinformation, lies, accusations and intolerance.
And you call yourselves the party of compassion. Unfortunately, the stats say something quite different. Conservatives donate much more to the poor than Liberals, even though libs hold a slight advantage on income.
Obama and Biden donated almost nothing (Obama: 1.6% until the election year and Biden: $300 in used clothes every year).
who cares what a retard in a funny robe thinks
I know. The Catholic Church is a favorite target. But did you ever stop to consider that this article is totally biased? The Catholic Church SUPPORTS health care for all. In fact, it provides health care to poor people all over the world. The Catholic Church also fights for human rights of all people all over the world. This includes the unborn! I know its much more convenient to see a fetus as "tissue" with no rights. The same people who think fetuses have no rights change their mind as soon as the baby is outside a woman's body. No logical discontinuity there!
Instead of fighting for the poor, the powerless, and the condemned, the Catholic Church should be more like other "Christian" churches who side with the Republicans, who basically tell the poor and powerless "Tough, if you're poor its your own fault! We're not doing anything to help you!"
These people believe that the Lord God, ruler and creator of all the heavens and everything that's in it, wants the sachrine adoration of his subjects and if he doesn't get it then turns petulant and angry. Yet this notion without a single fact to support it has created the most useless conniving untaxed industry in the entire hystory of the world.
As I read the comments written here I do not see one single instance of support for the Catholic Church. Every single conflict and war in the hystory of the human race has some sort of a religious element to it anyway and this is no different. According to scripture, "In order to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must become as a little child." Which translates into no personal will or identity, just the ability to blindly follow the churches teaching.
The people who promote this kind of nonsense are just the same as Jim Jones or David Koresh. In case you have forgotten recent hystory
Catholic Priest equates with the child abuse and sodomy of little boys
inn their care.
I'm getting real tired of the churches endorsing candidates or trying to influence political affairs.
It's time to either revoke these churches non profit status and have the pay taxes or enforce a seperation of church and state.
Real simple, you endorse candidates or speak out on political matters representing the church you lose your tax free status.
A bunch of insular, old, white men being out of touch with reality???...how surprising....
Hypocrates. It was OK for Obama to try to get the Church's to speak in support of this bill but not ok for them to speak against it. You can't have it both says.
Whatever happened to the seperation of church and state? It was seen as essential for a reason, but I suppose the looney right knows better than our founding fathers?
Any church that engages in political speech should have their tax-exempt status revoked, period.
Hmm... okay, I get the iron clad opposition to abortion. But what about the thousands of already born people that die because they have no health insurance? Perhaps the bishops should start a new group health care plan to cover all currently un-covered Americans... funded by the US Catholic church, of course.
Nice to see the RCC hasn't lost sight of its priorities: working against abortion and "the gay menace" regardless of the collateral damage. It opposes the death penalty as well as abortion, but never seems to get riled up about politicians who support it, as long as that politician opposes abortion. It believes in caring for the needy but urges the flock to support candidates opposed to abortion who also think it's perfectly reasonable to let poor kids starve. That they are considered to have any claim to moral authority in these matters astounds me.
Hey, don't poke the catholics too much for pressing their influence into government affairs. They've just been the most successful at over the last 20 centuries.
After all, all religions are based on the same business model: "I have the ear of XXXX (fill-in the name of the supreme being of your choice), so you better obey me and pay me a tithe or: your crops will fail; your teeth will fall out; your dog will die; you will burn in the fires of hell for ALL ETERNITY! You decide which ill fate you will risk.
Like the rest of us, the RC Church leadership is perfectly fine with letting the managers at for-profit health insurance companies decide who gets what treatment, and who gets a policy. Basically for-profit "Death Panels". They do this quietly and efficiently by denying care and increasing premiums in order to maximize the return on the investment of stockholders. That's the job of a for-profit company, to maximize profits by any legal means. In the current system, that HAS to mean that grandma may not really need that pacemaker, because she's probably doesn't have many years left anyway. Much better to add those dollars to the executive team's compensation package, or as dividends for the stock-owners.
I just wonder, "What would Jesus do?"
to the Catholic Bishops, death is not a bad thing. They love women who risk death to birth a problem baby.
AFter all, you go to Jesus, so why would they care that many die from lack of affordable health care?
They only care about your soul and if you abort, you go to hell.
Women dying in childbirth....that's OK.
Are these the same people who were having sex with children?
I can't stand this health bill particularly the gov taking an active role. They should make rules and regulations but leave the business to the private free market sector.
Now for the church. They should have zero say. They have their own problems to fix. I dealt with that back stabbing religion for too long.
Wow, lots of anti-Catholicism going on here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they aren't trying to prevent the Health Care Reform, simply change some of the wording right? Which is what most of the Democrats in Congress are currently trying to do. It's not just the Republican side that there has been discontent with this policy.
While no Catholic, I guess I don't have a problem with any organization, tax-free or not, giving an opinion on what people should do. I believe in the freedom of speech and that people should be able to speak their minds. And to the Catholics, this is an important message and they are more than welcome to express their anti-abortion opinion and attempt to convince others to do the same. One of the things I love about this country.
BTW HIstory lesson: when Jefferson was speaking of a wall between church and state he was talking about a state sponsered religion...he was responding to a concern people had that their 1st Amendment rights would not be trampled by the federal government....Jefferson wanted freedom for people to practice their religion or lack of religion.... seems a pity that people are always using this quote to advance their own agenda and to discriminate against people who are religious.
Isn't the church tax exempt, not like the rest of us who can call our senators and congressman because we pay them. Also, I'm glad to see that the church cares more about the health of the unborn than the healthcare of the one's that have already been born. Isn't the Catholic churches mission to help thy fellow man. Ensuring adequate health care to those in need would seem to be a way to do that. Guess the unborn is more important when you're trying to collect political points. Oh, did i mention they are tax exempt
The second churches turn political, it's time for them to pay taxes.
I am a Catholic and I just wish they would have had the initiative to speak out about the child molestation by priest or the death penalty. I mean really! And to get into the health care debate is a little ridiculous. Why don't they march against the big insurance companies who provide abortions?? At least some health care is better than nothing. The bishops should be out there helping people who are dying in the streets of America without health care. What about that??? They should remember that the Pope himself has government healtcare in Italy!!
This is why I can no longer consider myself a Catholic. They find every excuse possible to NOT defend the poorest among us. Abortion is a word they throw out when something doesn't suit them politically. You say you care so much about the unborn, but what about the living who are struggling and sometimes dying in American streets because society considers these HUMAN BEINGS worthless and underserving of help and empathy?
American Catholics, some of them are dispicable human beings masquerading as "Godly good folk". Sad.
I am a conservative baptist and I therefore commend the Catholic church for standing for what is right.
What is it with Catholics and more importantly these so-called Catholic leaders. Are they just making themselves completely irrelevant and do they really believe in their medieval arrogance that they can dictate what their 'flock' should do? They clearly have no shame as they can be bought just like every Republican by the Health Care industry and for that matter the Banking Industry. Catholics are becoming more corruptable by the day. I always believed that Catholics wanted to help the poor and make sure that they have some kind of affordable health insurance. But NO out heroic Catholic Bishops have decided to just screw the poor, like they have been doing for a very long time and long live the rich donors to the Catholic coffers which must be empty by now after having to pay off thousands of sex scandals.
All the poor should leave this church 'en masse' and find their spiritual needs somewhere else where they are more welcome.
Why should their "moral" values be better than mine or anyone else's. This is why the United States Constitution establishes the country as a democracy and not a theocracy. Just because I believe that it is immoral to eat an apple doesn't mean I should dictate it to you or anyone else. The great thing about morals they allow you to decide how to live YOUR life.
Randolph Carter, you are sick.
Yes, we need to focus on prevention and adoption, not ABORTION. Like I have said before, God created Adam on the 6th day. Three weeks (18 days to be exact) from conception, that thing has a heartbeat. The baby is alive and deserves life.
I have seen pictures of abortion and it's pretty sick. And like I have said before, in the hospital, we are measured by heartbeats, not by limbs, legs and eyeballs.
If it has a heartbeat, let it live. If you dont want it, put it up for adoption.
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is starting a campaign against abortion funding in national health care legislation.
***How about all the young Boys that were*** Molested You care more about unborn fetuses than living people*** Do you disagree with the Tax exemption****Hypocrites!!!!!
I think Obama should give everybody health care, a new house, a new car, and whatever else we need. Who cares if it bankrupts the country.
The Catholic church does not pay my insurance premium, therefore, they have no business telling me what my insurance can or cannot cover. My next correspondence will be to my elected representatives asking them to introduce a bill in congress to do away with church exempt status. Why don't all of you who agree..do the same.
True story: In South America, a nurse performed abortions for her clients. One of her clients died and she was jailed. God met her in jail and she became a believer and never performed abortions again.
The problem with abortion is that thing has a heartbeat. It has life and has been given life and Soul by the Creator. If you get rid of it, you are a killer.
Why don't we subsidize the cost of Health Care by finally taxing the Catholic Church? Talk about greed. The Catholic Church has gone from a religious organization to a business.
As a lukewarm Democratic Catholic in the Deep South, I was just getting over being told that I was going to hell for voting against George W. Bush twice, and now THIS. I hope they all feel smug & holy now.
When surfing, it is easier to sit on the board, than actual stand and surf the wave. Life and society is a wave. The Catholic Church is trying to sit on the board. Christ surfed.
Come on Priests, politics is out of your domain. You should all be defrocked , or be sent back to the SEMINARY. What you are doing is not Biblical , go pray for your sins and the sins of the pedophile priests who have left the Church in shambles. Shame on you all to be ready to rant and rage on your pulpits to dissuade individuals from their choices. HOLIER THAN THOU , go wash away your sins .
To all of you liberals who believe that Christians should support letting the government care for the health of others let me tell you something: When I was a teenager I had a hernia operation that my family could not afford because I was not covered by my parents health insurance. If it was not for a charitable organization I would have not gotten the surgury. Guess what, you don't need the governement to take and give to someone else, you have the choice to do that today. If you feel the need to pay for someone's health care – do it. Forcing others to is not liberty.
Do not let the government take your money and distribute it how they see fit. You may think Obama is all wonderful now but there may be a time when someone is in office that is not wonderful and you will have given them the opportunity to take advantage of the citizens of this country. That is what the Founding Fathers fought against and now some are opening the door to let it happen again.
My point is: Democrat or Republican, generally all of us want people to be healthy and happy and we have the power to help that pursuit as individuals. But do not give the government the opportunity to take that power from us.
I wonder if the Catholic church is willing to give up its tax-exempt status.
I'm proud to be an ex-Catholic.
the show of real leadership, faith, and concern for the common people, the Catholic Church will let hot button issues stop something that would benefit millions because it doesn't conform with their beliefs. they really care about people??? continues the history of not doing wants best for the poor and uninsured. what a joke.
I find it hard to believe that Catholic Priests would not want their parishioners to have the chance to buy healthcare insurance at the same price that Congress and the Senate buy healthcare coverage. With the saving achieved, the Catholic Church could ask for higher giving due to the increase in personal income for all Catholics. Maybe the Catholic Church could help me get healthcare insurance coverage with my preexisting condition. I am not interested in "free healthcare insurance", I will gladly pay what the bishops and priests pay. Seems like that "haves" want the "have nots" to carry the cross a little longer.
I always thought that "separation of church and state" idea was a good one. I sure do miss it.
The Catholic Church seems to be so hypocritical. Why do they not take a stand on the molestation of young "choir boys" in the church? To get involved in the health care saga-also is hypocritical-what do they have to gain, unless they have money invested in the insurance or medical supply business?
I believe healthcare, like eating, is a basic need. The side issues of abortion, etc should not sidetrack provision of basic medical care for people in need. I believe that's what Jesus would have done. He did more healing than preaching. And he called the religious leaders (priests, Pharisees, etc) of His day 'hypocrites' and 'white washed graves'!
The priests are right, but luckily this bill will never pass anyway. Healthcare is a luxury for the wealthy that can afford it, and shouldn't be made available to all else we'll have to wait in even longer lines to get the proper care.
Priests are priests. They should not meddle in politics. Health care reform is a political fight against insurance companies who cancel politicies for pre existing medical conditions. These companies are spending hundreds of millions of Dollars to kill the initiative, just to keep the status quo. Status quo gurantees their profit. If priests land in the debate and take a side against the reform that is likely to hurt the church goers. Priests should not forget that there are supporters of health care reform among church goers too.
Hey! Someone tell the Catholic Bishops that many of us do not practice the arcane beliefs of their cult and really do not approve of them imposing those idiocies on the rest of us.
They can tell their on parishioners not the get abortions. Imposing those irrational religious cult beliefs on the rest of us by law is simply beyond the pale.
If I am a parishioner in one of those churches I will simply walk out if the priest starts preaching politics. The Catholic church has lost credibility in my eys, when they didn't care for the "living". Allowing priests who sexually abuse little innocent boys who today as adult males are still struggling with emotional diffiuclties as a result of that hideous acitivities they were subjected to. I do not care for the priests's opinion, he is just another individual with a comment. I do care that everyone must have access to decent healthcare so our families and kids can stop dying unnessarily.
My father who lived in Germany at the time used to tell how Catholic and Evangelical priests would minister to the guards at every one of the death camps and bless their work. He told stories of sermons that railed against the perfidious Jews. Because many bishops and priests enthusiastically joined the SS and the Nazi party and actively promoted their goals. He had clear memories of the Nazi law that outlawed abortion as 'genocide'. Indeed, my father would not have been surprised to hear that a Hitler Jungen is now Pope. The Catholic Church is the last outfit that should preach morality to anyone.
Once again the Catholic hierarchy is out of touch with the people. Fine, they oppose abortion and they are fighting against it but this bill is about HEALTH CARE and abortion only encompasses one teenie weenie little piece of it. To oppose this legislation that will save thousands of lives of uninsured children and adults every year because it doesn't also oppose abortion is idiocy at it's best. What is the problem, is it that this bill is saving the wrong lives? Poor people aren't as worthy to have their lives saved?
Oh, and by the way Catholic Bishops, the latest version of the bill excludes abortions. So basically your just opposing saving the lives of the poor. You make me embarrassed to be a closet Catholic. Time to get rid of the Opus Day cult and bring back more of the Jesuits that you've running off.
What happened to the concepts of religion that teach us to care and love each other? Here is the Catholic Church worrying about abortions. Does it worry at all about the living, the poor and the impoverished? I see only one thing they provide in abundance, hypocrisy. For me, health care is a moral issue. How do I justify this stance? By my religious values.
I find it hypocritical for our country to support numerous wars with unlimited spending and because we want to provide our own citizens health care, we must suddenly care about the cost? The funding of health care affects directly the citizens of our country and that's who I want to help.
In other words, life begins at conception and ends at birth.
If the Catholic Church divested itself of all its wealth, it could single-handedly wipe out poverty and hunger around the World. Come on Vatican, sell your priceless paintings and artwork and feed the hungry, the millions of children starving all around the world. You want poor people to keep having children, then put your money where your mouth is!! Jesus never wanted or expected the kind of lavish, ostentatious display of wealth that the Catholic Church exhibits, not just in the Vatican, but all over the World with their gothic Cathedrals. And it's about time they get taxed, too!!! Whatever happened to the Vow of Poverty? But the Church made up the Vow of Celibacy in the 12th century so priests couldn't leave any of their acquired wealth to any family they might have, but would have to leave it to the Church so the Church could have more and benefit financially. This celibacy vow had nothing to do with giving up your natural urge to mate as a sacrifice to God. B.S. All it succeeded in doing is giving a pedophile a place to hide–behind a collar.
Time to remove the tax-exempt status of these politician in dresses. If they want to be politicians, why are they tax-exempt?
Isn't this pathetic? I wish they would be stripped of their tax exempt status. This coming from the same people who gave us thousands of pediphile priests and covered it up.
Slime and pond scum
Steps to avoid having to address arguments put forward by the Catholic Church:
1) Don't read the actual statements.
2) Define healthcare as a political issue, somehow completely detached from any ethical and moral implications. In the same breath, remind us of Matthew 25, but ignore Psalm 139:13.
3) Interpret the Constitution as meaning that a Catholic can live in Society as long as they don't shape it. But you can shape it. Based on your ethics.
4) Talk about some of the failings of Catholics. Ignore yours.
5) Doubly make sure of #1.
Seems to me that it's about time the IRS get involved and investigate the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church the same way they investigated a church in Pasadena, Ca. when a minister made an allegedly politically charged sermon. The allegation was proven to be wrong. In the case of the Catholic Church the evidence is overwhelming to substantiate their loss of tax exempt status and has been for years. Why is everyone so afraid of speaking out against them? The Catholic Church is a well connected and well oiled political-financial institution whose watch words are "Be Very Afraid". It's high time they be brought down a number of notches. They have always been more concerned with saving their sorry backsides far more than saving souls and spreading the word of God. If you want a terrific example of that just look at Cardinal Mahony and the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and his protection of known priest pedophiles. It's really sad.
Wait now, the leadership body of this mellenia old cult, with a long and clear track record of oppression and abuse for reasons of consolidating their power, influence, and wealth, are opposed to helping all the citizens of this country, especially the poor, over one idealogical disagreement?
What's up Catholic church?
PS. You were kicked out of government a very long time ago for very good reasons, ie: you abuse any power you are allowed to have. Stay Out Of Government Catholocism!!!
I really like Michael Moore and what he's trying to do for the country, but how the hell do you support a church like this?Perfectly happy to let 40 million americans die from lack of care lest they inadvertently have an abortion happen.
And they wonder why thinking catholics are leaving the church.
Please go take a seat Sir, you don't have to right to tell a woman what to do with her body.
What have you spoke out about to men, and your co-workers who cont. to harm young boys and girls.
Clean your own house before telling others what is right from wrong.
If the Catholic church paid taxes, then we would have a surplus.
Churches need to be taxed. They are a business. In America all you have to do is declare that you are a non profit church and you get tax exempt status. And when the Catholic church is speaking out like this, they are breaking the separation of church and state agreement in our constitution.
I guess they missed the part in the bible that talks about free will. Free Will means I have a choice. Or does it mean I have a choice as long as I choose what you want me to choose?
if any religion wants to politcal from the pulpit make them loose thier exemptions from taxes on all properties that own then they speak for or against and you will see that they will or would become silent on issues health care or whatever
If the Catholic Church was really interested in preventing abortions they would take their heads out of the sand and set up a clinic for free contraceptives. Most teen pregnancies are unexpected and could have been prevented with contraceptives. Too easy and its a sin!!!
Hey, WAKE UP!!! We are all sinners. Help keep the horse in the barn, not act like a fool after you leave the barn door open. I am a Catholic and I find my religion to be such hypocrites. The pope with all his relics and gold saying mass for the poor and downtrodden. Giving hope to many, I do not think so. Sell the popemobile and donate the money to a soup kitchen......now there is hope. I have found that religion is power for SOME over the masses....after all the pedophiles BEING the Church, I could not stomach it anymore. I look at the Bishops and the Pope and wonder....
I'm all against the health care program but why must someone ask the Priests to talk down on health care. Who besides catholics meaning mostly illegals will listen to them. This same religion are the ones who crucified Christians and would and are still doing so today.
As a Catholic, I understand where the priests are coming from. As an American, I wish they would shut the hell up.
There's a reason we have a seperation of church and government in this country. If we are not prepared to let muslim cab drivers in Detriot refuse to pick up people with alcohol, we should not be prepared to allow health care professionals to refuse legal medical treatments because it conflicts with their faith. We told the cab drivers (appropriately I think) that if they were not willing to pick some people up they needed to find a different job. We should tell health care workers the same thing.
By the way, like all pro-choice people, I am not pro-abortion. No one is pro-abortion. We welcomed our youngest child, who has Down Syndrome, into our family not because our church or our government told us we had to. We welcomed him into our family because that's what WE decided to do. That's what pro-choice means. Supporting the notion that women and families should have a say over their own bodies.
Why ask a national health care bill try to cover the tracks of a fertile, sexually active female . Control begins with withdrawal of the "offending weapon" – not taxpayer money to correct the "mistake." Or, how about giving up some sensitivity for the sensible covering the ...oh, well, after all, there are so many more humane ways than going for the XXX-mester extraction method.
Just tell them to read the Bill !
The Catholic Church needs to stay out of politics or lose their non-profit tax benefits. They are nothing but a business who takes from the poor and enriches themselves.
The new healthcare plan does not provide government money for abortions. It never has and there is nothing in the Bill to change that law.
Another Republican LIE campaign to do anything to defeat reform and keep the money flowing directly from the insurance industry to their pockets. Republicans are against Americans and only support large corporations who bribe them with large sums of money.
If they do not represent the People who elected them – then it is time to remove these greedy liars from office at the first possible moment. 2010 will be another landslide defeat for the Party of NO and HATE and LIES.
Yet another reason why I am no longer a Catholic. Liars and hypocrites. and pedophiles to boot!.
So, the idiot catholic church would doom millions of living breathing people to agonizing death because they have no health insurance and cannot procure any..............
How come the church is silent about pedophiles?
Speaking as a lapsed Catholic (current quasi-agnostic with traditional Catholic leanings), this makes me angry and just reinforces why I can't stand any religion these days. The fact is that abortion is a legal option in most cases, period. End of story. There's no reason why it shouldn't be included in any government plan because most private plans cover them. What makes me even more angry is that, as has been pointed out many times before, Catholics aren't speaking out louder against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, are they? What about sanctity of life in those cases?
Catholics should concern themselves with what happens after an unplanned baby is born, like child poverty and–here's a thought–access to affordable health care. I find it disgusting that they would lobby against a health care plan that would help cover the uninsurable over this issue. This just makes the Church seem so restrictive and hostile to women facing a horrible choice, and uncaring about the realities of life.
totally absurd! I think Jesus would be for helping the poor and the sick, rather than continuing to make the rich richer ...
Catholic's and their coat-hanger politics need to sit back and chill
By this logic, it is also true that if you gave everyone a $250 cash rebate to stimulate the economy, some people who needed/wanted an abortion could use that money for that purpuse. Therefore, the Bishops would conclude we should not stimulate the economy with cash rebates.
Or extensions of unemployment insurance
Or expanded eligiblity for Medicare, because that would free up dollars that might otherwise have gone to other payments that can now be use for abortions.
Or food stamps, because that frees up money for . . .
Or any tax reduction
Shorter Bishops: we oppose any government system that helps anyone pay for anything they need, because they might spend it on something we oppose.
The Catholic Church cannot lobby politicians in this way. It is against the mission of the church, and it is in direct opposition to the tax exempt status they enjoy. If the Catholic church wishes to continue to impose a rabid, radical and false agenda on its members, then it should do so while paying taxes as other corporations do.
The church has gotten away with this for years - telling their members NOT to vote for Democratic candidates for President. It's time to put a stop to their illegal political activity, or begin to collect taxes on their income and property. That would certainly put a dent in funding the reform we so desperately need.
Don't something like HALF of all zygotes/fetuses self-abort in the early weeks of pregnancy anyhow? Just wait till these crazies want to legislate forcing healthcare onto pregnant women whose fetuses would otherwise not normally carry to term.
I have a great idea on how to reduce insurance and medicare costs. Don't pay for Viagra either in addition to abortions! Why should my tax dollars be used for either of those? I really don't think it's medically necessary (except to these old, primarily white guys).
Oh, but it's primarily those old white guys who make the rules!
My days of giving to my local Catholic church is gone.........
Too bad these holier than thou Bishops weren't as concerned with the numerous pedophile priests that were molesting children, while they turned away and pretended it wasn't happening. I am a Catholic and I can't stand these Bishops telling me what to think and what not to think. . They sit in the lap of luxury, with their health care plans, while begrudiging poor people theirs. Hypocrits!!!
I'm Catholic....this isn't right.
They love their tax exempt status.!! Wise up Bishops this is why people are leaving the church.
Regardless of political preferences, regardless of personal biases, prejudices and emotional attachments, most everyone would prefer our politicians to honestly and effectively be sincere in concentrating on what is best for the people – not just for some of the people but rather for all of the people. Most, when rational and objective, totally understand that it calls for conscientious, unselfish and sincere negotiation, requiring some give-and-take and with the results being compromises that aren’t weighted solely for political or personal benefit, and especially not for Special Interests’, no matter how much support they give the politicians. What has to be seen is that can only be done when extremes are drastically softened and moderation is the rule, with something more centrist being the only logical possibility. To accomplish that people need to understand that they must control the politicians and not just let the politicians control or simply manipulate public opinion for their own purposes. Without dwelling on it but just to remind of the clear and regrettable example of how completely Bush-Cheney, with the stubborn and irresponsibly arrogant total support of the Republican Party, were able to use deceptive manipulation that literally cost all of us so much – “more of the same’ should never be acceptable. We now really need to correct the flagrant abuses implemented that allowed for the considerable benefit of just the few and instead make significant progress back towards the middle, otherwise we will keep sliding down to disaster (which isn’t far away).
Currently we see contentious and aggressive debate stubbornly offered to sway (manipulate) public opinion in the disputes over achieving success in Afghanistan and Iraq, in rescuing our finances and with Health Care reform, all with belligerent finger pointing and without any concessions. These are very complex and important issues that stand to greatly impact each of us, future generations and even the world for some time to come. Neither side is perfect or without fault and neither is pure in not trying to manipulate public opinion. The first thing that is absolutely necessary is to be cynical about anything they say, judging what it does for them and for the Special Interests who support them, judging how much hype and deception versus fact their positions represent and then judging their history and what that says versus their currently offered rhetoric. They should all be held to compromise and to be honest and conscientious with the people’s interests sincerely foremost on their minds. Wherever, and there are many obvious cases to be seen, it is determined that their positions are solely for their own interests or those of the few, with their stated positions being to block/obstruct progress, refuse compromise, focus on faulting their opponents and/or just offering subterfuge to manipulate the people, then they should be advised that their deception and irresponsibility is recognized and will result in their being rejected at the polls. Otherwise the people are co-responsible in failing to make any progress and just ending up with ‘more of the same’.
Catholics have the right to advertise and vote their conscience. The separation of church and state (not in the Constitution, but in a letter by Thomas Jefferson) means that there won't be a state run religion.
Notice all the hypocritical liberal posters can attack the Catholic church (defame, name call and lie). The party of tolerance? Yeah right.
Why did GWB start the Faith Based Iniative if church and state are separate yet he got by with it and now Obama is carrying it along? The government should never be supporting churches & their charities.
As for the abortion business, why do people who don't believe in abortions have to subsidize people who get one? This has been going on for a long time because our government gives tax dollars to the insurance companies. As someone said up thread, why aren't you protesting your own insurance company if they cover abortions if you don't agree with the procedure?
Personally, why should I pay for someone to get an abortion? Those churches that agree with abortion should fund abortions for their own members and not be using my money from the Faith Based Iniative. Isn't this the same thing as my insurance plan that doesn't cover dental or optical? If they don't cover that than why do I pay for people to get abortions under an insurance program?
I was raised Catholic, gradeschool, high school and college but I do not consider myself one any longer. The Catholic Church always took a stance for the poor and the helpless but now they are more concerned about something that I am not even sure is in this bill. I know of very few insurance plans that cover abortion, except in the instance where it is necessary (necessary!) to save the live or ensure the health of the mother. How many would want their daughter to lose her life, along with her unborn child's. This is extremism and I suspect most Catholics agree with me.
As a Catholic . . . I fear certain church leaders are functioning as yes-men for the Republican Party. Since I don't want to financially support the GOP . . . I'm reluctant to financially support the Catholic Church.
This is not the Catholic church talking; this is the republican political party’s secret weapon. Use Jesus and guilt to win a political battle. I wonder if Jesus ever gets tired of being used like a grease rag and discarded when not needed?
Greg
Churches that play politics should also pay taxes... plain and simple.
Now that is deficit reduction I can get behind!!
And one more thing...would you want to be on a machine that breathes for you, a feeding tube that nourishes you as you lie in a hospital room unconscious and possibly brain dead while a hospital takes your estate money until it is used up then says, " time to pull the plug."
A "death panel" is nothing more than an "advance directive" telling doctors what care YOU want at the end of your life. They are call "living wills" in some quarters and there are terrible horror stories of what happens when hospitals refuse to honor them. Be sure yours is in order. As the preacher said in Polyanna, "Death comes unexpectedly."
I want every Catholic Priest, Nun, Cardinal, Bishop, Arch-Bishop and the Pope brought up on Racketteering charges....maybe a couple high profile RICO trials will get these fantasy obessed, pedophile-hiding bubbleheads to pay their fair share of taxes or keep their fairytales to themselves!!
Roman Catholicism would do better to get its own house in order regarding pedophilia and do much more to take care of the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the homeless, the sick and the jailed among the unwanted and neglected born - as Jesus taught - instead of playing politics with the unborn and abortion.
What happened to separationof church and state??????
The last thing that Jesus would have wanted was for people to have health care.
Tax the churches – they are in the game so they can pay to play.
The Democrats still don't get it, read the comments. I find it unbeliveable they can support such a bill. Do they not understand what it is going to do to their children and grand children, apparently not! Their future family members are going to suffer because of bills such as these.
Meanwhile, the Catholic Church has no problem with a pre-emptive war that violated international laws (or lying to generate support for it), no problem with torture of prisoners or indefinite detention of them – again, in violation of international laws, no problem with the assassination program of the CIA, no problem with the often poorly administered death penalty, and no problem with national policies that hurt the poor and destroy the environment. And, they have no problem violating the separation of church and state as specified in our Constitution (they campaigned openly for George W. Bush). They do, however, have a problem with a bill that doesn't REQUIRE OR FORCE abortion but makes it possible for some to choose abortion???
If Jesus returns, he's going to be really pi**ed!!
It would be nice if the Catholic church was as concerned and vocal about about abusing children as they are about health care.
It is time to start taxing churches.
I'm not very comfortable with the Catholic Church as a lobbying group. What's next on the agenda, inquisition? You know that all those priests are going to preach about is killing babies when the abortion debate is about so much more than that.
Americans are forced to subsidize war and execution – I don't see why abortion is such a special case – we all are forced to support some form of killing that we don't agree with. It's part of what democracy is all about – everyone takes a little and gives a little.
Want an abortion? Be responsible or pay for it yourself, not with my money.
if the bill included a thumbs up for foot tapping a buddy in the next bathroom stall or fondling a kid then those holier than though nut jobs would be all for it!
And for those of you who really care about the tax exempt status... The Catholic church DOES pay taxes on a portion of their income specifically to be able to take a stand on issues such as these.
I have never seen so much ignorance and hatred from people who fancy themselves "progressive." The Holocaust comparisons are telling, because the people who are clamoring against the Church for getting involved in the abortion debate are the same type of people the Church feared upsetting during World War II. Rabid abortionists, like their Nazi and other "death as a solution" forebears, must be opposed in the public square. Three cheers for the Catholic church for learning its lesson from the past, and staunchly defending the dignity of all human persons – even in the face of a strident and ignorant mob!
The Catholic Church is falling apart.
Churches closing for lack of Priests, Sexual deviants costing them untold millions for their cover up, and questionable collections at services causing some members to get angry. Sounds like they are moving beyond the intentions of scripture. No wonder people are leaving the church.
I could care less about the Catholic Church thinks in regards to the proposed health care legislation. The issue is to provide quality healthcare coverage for all Americans. Religion has no place in this debate. I refuse to allow any religous group or organization to limit my options in regards to future health care. Pro Life, please!!! If they are really concerned concerned about life they should stand up in church this Sunday and urge every parishoner who is financially able to adopt at least one child from foster care. That would approve the lives of countless children. The church's are tax-exempt, in my personal opionion they should leave politics alone.
Giving the gov't more control over health care will just be another tax payer sink hole!
This is exactly why I no longer consider myself a Catholic. I will not give one more dime to a "Charity" that cares more about influencing public opinion on political matters than it does about the welfare of tens of millions of Americans. Christ taught again and again about how to care for him by caring for the poor, the sick and the oppressed. The Catholic Church (not the Catholic Religion – I do want to maker the distinction) is misguided by people who do not abide by Christ's teachings. These people are the epitome of hypocrisy!
Such hypocrisy!! The Catholic church should concentrate its efforts on cleaning up its own house before they try to influence public policy that impacts the rest of us. If they want to make any measurable impact on the rate of abortion then they should try doing a better job of attracting new and young members to their faith instead of trying to pander to their political allies.
How can you morally be against health care for all in this country. Isn't the church supposed to stand up for social and economic justice? A person is not forced to have an abortion, they have a choice not to. It is no surprise that the Catholic Church has ceased being a relevant moral force.
This perversion that says we'll go to the mat to save a a pair of cells, but ignore everything that happens after birth is utterly irrational. Get your church out of my healthcare!
I thank God every day that I am Catholic. Bless the bishops for standing up for what is right, even if it is not politically correct.
This is EXACTLY why the catholic church is failing. Here is a chance to help the poor and the sick...the VERY people that the Lord says we must help. I was raised catholic. I'll never go to their church again. If they were a US corporation, most of them woul dbe in JAIL.
the catholic church is NOT pro-life! They are anti-abortion. There is a HUGE difference!
HYPOCRITES! You say you follow theLord's teaching. You don't come close!
This kind of a stance from men who protected the pedophiles among them should be given precisely the respect they have given to people who are living now and who need health care now - none. It is this attitude toward the rights of women that led me to leave the church for one that is more loving and respectful. Bishops and Pope Benedict need to understand that as many - or more - people are leaving the Roman Catholic Church to join the Episcopal Church in the United States or the Anglican Communion in other countries as are traveling the other direction. And it's precisely because of public stances like this one.
If the Roman Catholic Church can preach politics from the pulpit (or any other church for that matter), then they should be subject to the same taxes that other businesses and residents of this country are required to pay.
The Catholic Church and many others here have always had a dirty hand in politics and business. Just ask the Guatamalan composinos who were betrayed by United Fruit and the Catholic church during the Sandinista struggle. The U.S. co-opted this country, drove folks from their own land to put attack and supply bases to launch yet another deadly action in capitalistic hubris and CIA meddling where we do not belong. Read this book for the details. It is an older book, but still available. "Don't Be Afraid, Gringo" tells the sorry tale of the hypocrisy and lying that Americans tended to believe in the many years our government interferes, and still does, in other lands for theft of resources and profits to the corporatocracy. Now, one who knows will never be surprised that such a wealthy business like this church would not REALLY support the works of Jesus in reality. Do good with one hand and do robbery with the other. My apologies to the honest, sincere among this church. Nice religions we have-just more capitalists with a tax exemption for the good they may do as a front for other "investments"!!!!! I was raised and educated in this Catholic Dogma. I know the story! Peace
Tax exempt status, say goodbye to the Catholic Church, and the Mormon church while you are at it.
If the only issue is "Abortion" from the religious perspective, does that require speaking out against the entire bill?
The "Abortion" is being revamped, but the suggestion party always leave that topic lingering on for sensationalism.
I can see the church going against the "Abortion" clause, but to speak totally against the bill is a bit too much on the wordly side.....
The Catholic Church, like other organized religions, should stick to offering spiritual guidance and comfort to their followers and stay out of the lives of the general public.
I could never figure out why Republicans were against abortions and Democrats would defend it as a matter of choice because if abortions was banned the African-American and Latino population would spike and we know how they vote.
If it was totally allowed Democrats would lose the opportunity to have a permanent majority, with the help of these two population groups.
So in the real world Democrats should be seeking to abolish abortions and Republicans should be pro-abortion.