Washington (CNN) - Rhode Island's top Roman Catholic leader has asked state congressman Patrick Kennedy to stop taking communion over his support for abortion rights, the diocese said Sunday.
In a statement issued Sunday, Providence Bishop Thomas Tobin said he told Kennedy in February 2007 that it would be "inappropriate" for him to continue receiving the fundamental Catholic sacrament, "and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so."
Kennedy is the son of the late Massachusetts Sen. Edward Kennedy and scion of the most prominent Catholic family in modern U.S. politics.
The Roman Catholic church strongly opposes abortion, which has been legal across the United States since 1973. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops lobbied for tight restrictions on federal funding of abortion in the health-care bill the House of Representatives passed earlier this month.
Updated: 2:01 p.m.
From CNN Politics
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My family is NOT catholic. I don't want catholics lobbying our government to dictate to me.
If churches are involved in politics, take away their tax exempt status (and pay off our debt with what they don't pay in taxes now).
NO MORE TAX EXEMPTION FOR CATHOLIC CHURCHES
Priests are still allowed to receive communion, even after having their way with the delicious little boys.
What about the seperation of church and state?
Why does the Catholic Church think it can influence politics?
Why do they care about abortion, anyway?
God LETS it happen, doesn't He??? Maybe He wants it to happen????
They don't care about all the babies killed by bombing Iraq and Afganistan, do they?????
I think they are hipocrits!!!!
Who freaking cares Catholics don't like abortion he is Catholic he publicly supports abortion they said no to communion CNN stop stiring the pot this has nothing to do with JFK's death
So what? Join another church then.
What a bunch of elitest slime the Kennedy's are. A bunch of hypocrites at least as far back as Joe. Including John, Robert, and of course Teddy.
So why was this bishop silent when Bush launched an illegal and immoral war based on deceit that has now killed 4,700 US troops and 1.3 MILLION Iraqis? More and more it looks like these "right to life" folks value ONLY embryos and fetuses...once they born they are SOL and fair game. What hypocrisy.
WWJD? Jesus welcomed everyone. even the one who betrayed him, into the sacrament he instituted. Who the hades does the bureaucracy carrying his name think it is to deny anyone the sacrament of communion. What a bunch of elitist hypocrites!
Just like the Catholic Bishops pressuring for the Stupak language in the health care bill. I agree with GI Joe - take away the tax exempt status and watch our revenues (property taxes? New York?) soar.
The Church is right on here. They are doing the right thing by holding Catholics feet to the fire on this issue. You cannot support the murder of innocent children and expect to go to church on Sunday as if you actions do not violate what the Church stands for.
I believe the Catholic Church just violated the Internal Revenue Code regarding (501)(c)(3) organizations....will it be pursued? Nope. Just think...it took two decades to even file a civil complaint about an Islamic fundamentalist organization that supports Iran.
Hey duffuses...there is no separation of church and state issue here. The Catholic Church doesn't want to serve to communion to one of the creeps (another) of the Kennedy family. Good for them.
They should have booted drunk uncle Teddy a long time ago. That's why Teddy was trying to make nice with the Church before he died. He knew he was in big trouble when we went to the other side.
Bishop Tobin is wrong. Abortion is not a moral issue, it's a medical issue. The Church practices moral relativism in many ways. Tobin could care less about life, if he did he would be demanding carbon curbs to save future humanity. The Church is only interested in controlling women's sexuality inorder to dominate. I'm Catholic. I support abortion rights and I receive communion. Kenndy can join my church.
With this action the chuch (note the small c) is blurring one the most important principle of democracy, the separation of government and church.
Furthermore, how can an organization that protects pedophiles have any credibility?
Let them deny communion to all who use birth control and have had or condone abortion. See how that works out for them. Perhaps deny them the right to make financial contributions, since that money is tainted by the giver's politics/morals.
Religious organization should have their tax-exempt staus taken away for this kind of thing. Contributions to these organizations... all denominations, not just the Catholic Church, should no longer be tax deductable
The comments on stories related to the Church are so ridiculous they make me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon. Like any other organization in our country, the Church is allowed to deal with its membership in a fashion befitting its purpose and charter. Catholics who have knowingly committed 'mortal sin' can't receive until they renounce and repent the sin (yes, including priests, or anyone else, who have committed mortal sexual sin). If the Church wants to withhold Eucharist, they can. If Kennedy doesn't like it, Catholicism isn't the only religious show in town.
But! The Bishop denies the claim! So we don't even know what we're talking about here. Its hearsay. Its he-said/he-said. Why don't we wait to find out what actually happened before we throw an anti-Catholic riot, alright?
The bishop should have been aborted.
You cannot be both Catholic and pro-abortion.
I can think of worst punishments, the bread is usually quite stale and, as a recovering alcoholic, he shouldn't be drinking wine anyway.
Did this idiot also refuse communion to Catholics who supported Bush's Iraq War?
The most richest and most powerful corporation in the world is the Catholic Church. Tax exampt, muti billion dollars in revnue each year, presit never convicted for child molestation, church is the ONLY religion represented in the UN.
Thank God for a man of the cloth doing what needs to be done. May God look favorably upon him.
This is why I am no longer a catholic nor any other religion. Take away exemption of all, any church, who meddles in politics.
Those are the three least thought out comments I have seen in a long time. All of you seem to confuse Kennedy the man with Kennedy the Congressman. This has nothing to do with the Church trying to influence politics. It has to do with a fundamental moral position of the Church, which abhors (as it rightly should) the murder of innocent children to satisfy the whims of a few malcontents.
There is simply no consistent way to argue in favor of abortion rights. There is no express right to privacy, but there is a very clear right to life–a right, I would add, that is the ground for all subsequent rights. Thus, to deny the right to life is to deny all rights, including an implied right to privacy, thereby negating any affirmative argument one can make for abortion.
Sarah, Taliban, and GI Joe, you all need to step back for a moment and consider how unreasonable, immoral, intellectually weak, and downright rude your comments are.
If the Catholic Church feels free to lobby and influence the political process, then its tax exempt status should be revoked. The same should apply to all churches pushing a political agenda. A faction of this country is trying to establish a theocracy in which a narrow view of reality should apply to all. My question is why their imaginary friend's ideas (or their intrepretation thereof) are supposed to be superior?
This country was founded on the principle of freedom of religion, and more importantly freedom FROM religion. Let's get back to that, please.
When the Catholic Church openly admits that it has been and still is a haven for pedophiles, and openly admits its abuse of the rights of young pregnant girls in Ireland, and makes proper financial amends to all, it just might have the time to pay attention to the fact that whining about abortion without putting the same energy into protesting war and violence (which kill the already born) and gain a tiny bit of credibility. What hypocrisy!
This is shameful, and another hit to the credibility of the Catholic church.
I was raised Catholic, but switched to non-demoninational Christian, in part due to the hypocricies (like this example) of this branch of Christianity.
This got to be a joke. What do they think of themselves? Look in this country in 2008 approximately 510,000 children were in foster care. How many of them get adopted by these pro life people? Look how many Palestinian children gets killed by our bombs and bullets in Palestine? Thousands died in Iraq/Afghanistan and who is responsible? It is still going on.. whose war it is?
The Catholic church had been a very bold player in the political arena, recent Prop 8 in CA and similar ballot in ME is proof that these religious organizations use our money to engage in political battles.
Its about time logical, educated, fair minded people should shun Roman Catholic churches. Religious groups are supposed to spread peace and tranquility. Not hate and excommunication.
I am sure Jesus didnt teach anyone to act this way.
Good for the Bishop. If Kennedy doesn't want to adhere to fundamental Church teaching, he is not in communion with the Church and shouldn't receive Communion. I'm not sure why he doesn't just formally leave the Church, since he obviously is not a member by his actions, and join one of the many Churches in which he can pick and choose which Commandments to obey.
Did the Catholic Church deny communion to the dozens of priests who assaulted altar boys? Or the priest whose secret child they helped to conceal for 20 years. Or the Popes who launched the Crusades with the sole purpose of killing Muslims because they worshipped differently. It is time for the Vatican to play by the same rules they try to impose on others.
Good for the Catholic church!
If this is true, then the goverment needs to go to war with the Catholic church to firmly establish the need for separation from state. If not, then ANY religion will use this precident to influence the politicians. This is no different than bribery or threat.
Finally, a Bishop with a spine disciplined a wayward son! What scandals some of the Kennedys bring!
Patrick's father, who also supported abortion rights, was entitled to a lavish Catholic funeral. Why the different treatment?
Can the Catholic church really afford to lose any more members?
WOW! What hypocricy!!
I used to be Catholic (now Wiccan). I was NOT ALLOWED to have my second marraige IN the Church because I hadn't 'patitioned' them to have my first marraige annulled.
The Catholic church will not allow him to have communion, while the pedifiles have their way with little boys.
THE LIES AND HYPOCRICY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ARE BEING REVIELED.
NEXT WILL BE THE SO CALLED, SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN HYPOCRITS.
Please see Johnny Cash's song Cry, Cry, Cry. That is how much I care about the Kennedys.
That's like the Germans being sympathetic to the Jews, then showing up to work on Monday to help in the camps. How can these two-faced politicians from both sides of the isles claim to hold any morals in their personal lives and then claim they are not compromising themselves when they vote against their own self proclaimed moral beliefs?! If Mr. Kennedy wasnts to take the sacraments, he knows he follow the Catholic faith, he of all people should not be surprised by this. The same goes for people of all faiths. If a Rabbi who was elected based on his following the Jewish law proclaimed Babyback Rib Day in Tel Aviv I doubt he would remain in good standing with his constituents or his faith...Only in America can politicians like Pelosi, Gore, Bush, etc. and their mouthpieces hold the country on their every word. VOTE out all incumbants! Start fresh with people that are honest, decent hard working folks.
the hypocritical catholic church needs to stay out of politics or maybe we should start taxing their vast estates in thie country....
GI Joe I agree. There are many religious organizations that claim tax exemption, but meddle in the political process. You want a theocracy, move to Afghanistan. I hear Saudi Arabia does a sharp job at fusing religion into the political process as well. I've always maintained my religion is a private matter between myself and my God. What I believe can't be forced onto you by the legal political process. However, too many of our lawmakers consider their election a mandate to "follow their conscience" even when the majority of those who elected them did so under their conscience which defined a different priority in lawmaking that what the (now secure in office) lawmaker espouses. Mostly, I hate politicians for that. Good for Patrick!
I'm in shock. Not that he was or wasn't denied communion but that in 2009 it still matters.
Taking communion means recognizing the "Body" of Christ, which is every living human being, including the unborn.
Its time for the US Supreme Court to decide if American Taxpayers will continue to provide Tax Exemption to the Catholic Churches and their billions of tax free property havens across America which pay zero property taxes.
As the Catholic Churches continue to fly in the face of laws pertaining to illegal immigration, serial pedophiles, sex offenders and harboring fugitives, the US Supreme Court needs to debate if continuing the present Tax Exemption for the Catholic Churches is in the best interest of American society as a whole.
Spiritual blackmail – that's the work of the Lord.
There is a separation of church and state here. The Church is separating itself from a man who chooses to hold views contrary to Catholic teaching while maintaining his public office. Kennedy can now decide which is more important to him. His public job, or the Church. I'm sure he'll remain obstinate and continue to promote abortion. So is the way of the so called Catholics such as Pelosi, Biden, Kennedys, etc. Being Catholic is not a right, it is a privilege. For too long loons such as the Kennedys, Pelosi, and Biden have used their public life to try to influence Catholic Doctrine. It is the Liberal abortion supporting Catholics who are violating Separation of Church and State. Not the Church.
I was raised a Catholic and I DEMAND that this hypocrite Bishop also deny Communion to everyone who supports war or the death penalty.
Anybody knows where to apply for excommunication?
Good for the Bishop! I am against abortion. The baby has a heartbeat and it has the right to life.
As for the criminals, I believe in the death penalty.
I dont understand DonkeyCRATS way of killing the innocent and saving the criminals..
Of course, I voted DUMMY KRAT my whhole life, but it's just weird....
Virtually all churches influence politics when they can, and have done so for probably a few thousands of years. I do not like it either, but the separation of church and state is not implicated unless Rep. Kennedy changes his vote to satisfy his church. Here in New York we have a problem with some legislators who likely will not support gay marriage because of their religious views - that is a clear violation of the separation of church and state. If they do not have a secular basis for opposing the granting of such a fundamental right equally, then it is improper to elevate their religious belief to the level of government policy. The church however is free, under the First Amendment, to follow its precepts and issue its own discipline to members of its congregation.
With respect to tax exemption I'd agree that houses of worship should not receive a general tax exemption, however, to the extent they offer much needed social services: homeless shelters, foster care, medical services, food pantries, meeting spaces for therapy and support groups, etc., those operations should be given tax exempt status just like any other non-profit offering those services.
Also singling out the Catholic Church is fallacious. All religions lobby their members who serve in government. Anyone ever heard of Jerry Falwell and his supporters? The Moral Majority was a political organization in the 80's which had an agenda of evangelical Christian-oriented political lobbying. And there are plenty of other groups that lobby their politicians.
In any event, I am not concerned that Mr. Kennedy will bow to this pressure.
So, is the church going to go after ALL of the Catholics in Congress? Do they choose to harrass the Kennedy's because they know it will get them headlines? The church has always chosen to apply the rules selectively, and have meddled in politics whenever it suited them.
Catholic Bishops do not need to worry about tax money being spent on abortions. Since they do not pay taxes their money cannot be used. It' s really that simple.
I'm not sure what 'Death Panel Sarah' is talking about. The Church vocally opposed the Iraq War and has been clear in belief that social justice demands extending health protections for illegal immigrants and their children. You may not like the Catholic position on abortion, and that's cool, whatever, but get your facts straight before you go painting Catholics with a broad brush and attributing to them every political position you dislike.
No one is saying he can't vote and believe as he pleases regarding abortion. The church is just saying that they, too, have a position on this, and that if you can't abide the position, then you can't truly be part of the church body. The problem is one of repentance. Communion is given as part of forgiveness for sin. Before communion occurs, the person is to admit sin before God, and then ask forgiveness. Mr. Kennedy won't ask for forgiveness because he doesn't believe he's wrong. The church considers abortion a sin and won't provide communion because he isn't repentant. Mr. Kennedy won't ask forgiveness (due to his position on the matter) and the church won't grant forgiveness for unrepentant sin (due to their position on the matter). What he chooses to do and proclaim in legislative halls is his business and his right. What the church chooses to do in obedience to God is theirs. By the way, I'm not Catholic.
As a Roman Catholic who is preparing to attend Mass this morning, the fact the Thomas J. Tobin has decided to play.......... god........ and refuse the Eucharist to Patrick Kennedy or for that matter ....... anyone. IS AGAINST GOD'S LAW!
(excuse the yelling, folks!) JESUS GREAT COMMANDMENT SAID "LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"...... JESUS NEVER....... EVER........ SAID....... 'THOSE WHO ARE PERFECT MAY EAT MY BODY'....... NO....... HE SAID, "LET THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE."
So Thomas J. Tobin is PERFECT? To ALL Catholics, especially the 54.9% who voted for President Obama....... let's contact our bishops and protest!
The bishops spent years and years ALLOWING PEDOPHILES TO HOLD THE BODY OF CHRIST IN THEIR HANDS, turning a blind eye to the CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN! AND NOW THIS?! HYPOCRITES!
A agree with "GI JOE" NO MORE TAX EXEMPTIONS FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!
U.S. BISHOPS BEWARE YOUR PEOPLE ARE ABOUT TO REVOLT!
Dmitri – What about the scandals the clergy brought on? The church is hypocritical at best. If the church cannot stay out of politics it needs to lose its tax exempt status. This is just the latest attempt by this "religious" organization to control political action – the church recently threatened to stop all charitable activities in Wash DC if the city recognizes gay marriage. Doesn't seem very "Christ-like" to me.
Relying to Death Panel Sarah: No, the Church is not trying to influence politics. This was an internal matter until Kennedy turned it political by running his mouth to the paper so he could get people like you to cry foul and whine. The Bishop is only concerned about upholding the teaching of the Church and the soul of Kennedy.
As for Iraq and Afghanistan, the Church has consistently been against the wars. Pope JPII condemned them from the start, unlike many in the democratic party. A case of selective memory on your part so you can rip the Church?
Your beliefs are not a privelege – they are your right. That is what the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and other ideas from the Englightenment are all about. The governments job is to protect our indviivual rights. Here in the US we have a separation of church of state and if that is changing the Catholic Church and the Mega churches should pay taxes like the rest of us.
Good for the bishop! Let's live what the Catholic church teaches or just choose another religion. The Kennedys have had it both ways for too long.
Thank God moral values still counts in America, otherwise, we will all be DRUNK, NAKED and on DRUGS.
Moral values = knowing right from wrong = decency = the ability to lead = SuperPower Status
God has instructed his prophets to write us laws. WE must abide by them. The universe has laws to govern it to stay its course. We have laws to govern us to not ROT to hell. Outside the laws, there is only chaos and confusion.
The representatives of the Catholic Church now should be officially banned from "visiting" their Senators and Representatives on Capitol Hill. They are not supposed to be a lobbying organization, and they should have no right to parade up to Capitol Hill to influence the political process. Their place is in church. They can preach from that pulpit all they want to and people have a choice whether to go sit in the congregation and listen. I personally hope that Patrick Kennedy will leave the Catholic Church now and join the Episcopalian Church where he will be gladly given Communion. If this does not turn Catholics away from the Church I do not know what would. Disgusting.
Come on people who have commented already. Catholics and most christians care about abortion because we believe that it is a human life at conception. Even if you disagree that a fetus is a human life that early, can you not at least be civil and respect that as our position?
Death Panel Sarah, most catholics are against the war so yeah they do care about 'all the babies killed by bombing Iraq and Afganistan." Even though most of the civilian casualties are caused by extremists targeting the population of their own country.
Republicans are the American Taliban, you cant put down a whole religious order because of what some priests did. Those responsible should be punished, but as a whole, modern catholics are advocates for the poor, and peace.
GI Joe, Catholic priests have every right to deny Kennedy communion. Part of the Catholic faith is being anti-abortion and the priests can do what they want. They are an organized religion that many, many people take joy in and deserve their tax exempt status. If you want to take tax exempt status away from a religion, then target scientology. Their illegal activities and abuse of their members makes them more of a cult then a religion.
It's nonsense like this that led to the Reformation.
Let see.. should the a religion rampant with child molesters cast the first stone?
Shouldnt a religon that supports the killing of innocent childlren in other countries like Iraq be condemned under God 'slaw?
There are plenty of practicing Catholics that are pro-choice and vote for pro-choice candidates.
If they want to go down this path, they can start by denying communion to members of the "Catholics for Obama" organization and then move on to those that are pro-gay marriage and pro-birth control and so on.
Obviously, they're not too concerned about the pedophile priests in their midst.
This narrow minded approach to life is why I left the church. I wish the church used its great wealth to help the millions starving each day and not in trying to bring more children into the world.
Catholic bishops playing GOD, only when it suit their ideological dogma, but sleeping with kids and young boys...is all part of the catholic faith with no ideologocal objection – And those fathers continue to receive communion at the detriment of the innocent kids and young boys who've been molested and abused for life!!!!
I wished I live in the future when all these cave people who believe in Jesus will be bred out of existence. There's a reason churches are closing all over the country. Every generation there are less and less believers of this nonsense.
Does this mean that any Catholic that uses birth control cannot receive communion either. Where were these phonies when the pedophile priests were molesting children. They turned a blind eye toward that. These Bishops make me sick. I am Catholic and I'm ashamed of these sanctimonius Bishops dictating and threatening politicians. Go to confession and absolve yourselves. Hypocrites.
What delightfully ignorant posts from at least the first three commentors! I shall ignore the misspelling of middle school words and focus on the meat of the issue.
Separation of Church and State means the state will not dictate a national religion, not that those in government cannot be of any religion. And anyway, how is this religion infringing upon government? It's not like the Church is taking away Rep. Kennedy's vote in Congress is it?
Second, The Catholic Church was and is opposed to the war in Iraq. However, ironically enough, courtesy of everybody's beloved Separation of Church and State, the Church has no power in this country to overrule the President.
Catholics (and millions of non-Catholics for that matter). Oppose abortion because it is the killing of innocent life. And further to the point, the idea that everything that happens on Earth happens because it is God's Will is just silly and ignorant.
Finally, to Mr. GI Joe, if we are going to remove the tax-exempt status of every group with which even one family objects, how about getting rid of Planned Parenthood, NARAL, Sierra Club and Greenpeace too? Some people dislike rival universities, perhaps they should pay tax too.
Oh, and I'm not Catholic, I just have no patience for ignorance and intolerance.
If you don't care about Catholics, why do you care that this man has been told not to receive Communion? As a Catholic, it is his duty to know if he is in the state of mortal sin. His own conscience should tell him that he should not receive Communion.
Of course good Catholics care about "all the babies killed by bombing Iraq and Afganistan." Catholics are pro-life – meaning against the death penalty, not only abortion – and against war and injustice toward humanity. Catholics are pro-dignity for all human beings.
It's funny to me that only people who are obviously anti-Catholic have posted. How about listening to someone who knows a little something about being Catholic and what it means to receive Communion?
It's time for the Catholic Church and ALL churches to stay out of government business. If they don't, then take away their tax exemption status. Their teaching and their rhetoric belong in the church, not in the halls of government.
Let see.. should the a religion rampant with child molesters cast the first stone?
Shouldnt a religon that supports the killing of innocent childlren in other countries like Iraq be condemned under God's
law?
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ~~ Stephen F. Roberts ~~
Dear Al,
No application is necessary. Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll get your wish. In the mean time just keep kissing Obama's Muslim ass. Just don't do it out of doors in the winter as your lips may stick.
It amazes me that DONKEY crats find it so easy to kill the INNOCENT, but allow the convicted criminals to live.
I am for protecting the innocent and killing off the murderers. I believe in 3 strikes and you're hang. I dont understand thementality of locking up criminals for the rest of their lives if they are cold-blooded killers. What gives these murderers the right to live? It's because they have a heartbeat.
Well dang! Babies have a heartbeat too!
Lacrosse Mom, have to agree with you. Capital letters and all.
This seems manipulative and petty to me, but isn't at all surprising given how often communion is denied over this same issue.
I'm not religious myself, but am respectful of it. Still, I am curious if any Roman Catholics out there can explain why one would stay with their church after something like this happens to you personally? And what does being denied communion mean to you?
Catholic Church is an Empire and they use the authority to purnish her congrants. What would Jesus say?
Amazing, and they wonder why people are leaving the church!!!! Look to thine own self Bishops!!!
All Patrick and the rest of the Kennedy clan need to do is withdraw their financial support from the Catholic church and suddenly it will all be resolved. He'll be offered communion in no time flat.
Or, he can just start going to the Episcopal Church. It's known as "Catholic Light" by the Catholic church anyway. And it's all the same God anyway.
Mr. Kennedy should pass legistlation to hunt down and bring to justice the 500- 3500 child rapist priests that Pope Benedict said were still serving in the church.
And this is exactly why I'm not Catholic any longer.
I am just about done with the church and the pharisees that have been put in leadership roles. If Jesus Christ showed up at the Vatican tomorrow these pharisees would probably excommunicate him.
All you separation of Church and State people: try reading the constitution. The separation of church and State refers to keeping the governement out of church policy, NOT keeping the church from influencing government. The founding fathers were all God-fearing men and based the Constitution on Christian principles.
NIce move by the Bishop, unfortunately, the Catholic Church is
inconsistent and he will just move his financial support to
another parish and get communion.
It's about money and Power!!!!
Sarav,
"Logical, educated, fair minded people" have already shunned Roman Catholic churches. So guess who's left in them.
Those in the Catholic church are nothing but hypocrites.
Jesus is weeping, and God is pissed!
Ha Ha that is a good one – No Bishop never stopped his Father from receiving communion with all the Roman Catholic Laws that he broke in his life – Of course not with all the Kennedy money coming in all the time why would they?
Yet, some of these people who are criticizing the Catholics---have no problem with Muslims lobbying our government.
They have no problem with unions lobbying our government.
They have no problem with Hollywood lobbying our government.
They have no problem with support groups for illegals lobbying our government.
They have no problem with trial attorneys lobbying our government.
Etc. Etc.
Well, I saw a documentary on a non-believing nurse in Paraguay. She didnt believe in God and performed illegal abortions for her patients. One day, her patients DIED and she was jailed for it.
While jailed, God spoke to her and taught her how wrong it was to perform abortion. She became a Christian and never performed another abortion again.
If GOD said it was wrong, then it is wrong. We need to focus on preventi9on and adoption, NOT abortion. That thing has a heartbeat and like a criminal, that baby which is so much more innocent than convicted murderers in our jail system, DESERVES the right to live and to grow up and to make a decision to either be a decent human or a one from HELL>
I agree with other statements here: if churches (of any denomination) want to be involved in politics, take away their tax exempt status.
As I recall, Jesus didn't turn anyone away. Ever. He never said "Only those that meet my standards can be with me."
this sounds liken an out and out case of extortion...if you vote or support abortion...your church will kick you out...in fact this the worst kind of extortion...the person being extorted is a congress person..and influencential person in government....thawt bishop should go to jail and the catholic church should lose its non-tax status..
Americans need to start standing up to the Catholic church and put an end to its interference in politics. This is a secular democracy. The church has no role in government and no right to impose its teachings on the public. This is not Europe in the Middle Ages!!
that is what you get for being a superstitious moron.
This is not just about abortion issues, it's about a church where a few "old" men dictate to millions of followers. Catholics, we need to stand up and push for democracy in our church.
#1. No where in the Constitution does it call for the seperation of church and state. What all the church/state people cry about is the line in the First Amendment that says CONGRESS will not establish a state religon. ALL US CITIZENS are free to worship in the faith of their choice free from government intrusion. So I challenge ANYONE to show me where in the Constitution that SPECIFICALLY states that church and state are to be seperate.
#2. The Catholic Bishops and the rest of the Catholic clergy here in the US are US CITIZENS. Which means that according to the FIRST AMENDMENT that they can speak on social matters no matter how political those issues have become. So it's not just the atheists that can speak their mind.
#3. If memory serves, the Pope and all the clergy here in the US have spoken out about the war in Afganistan and Iraq and saying very clearly that the Church is opposed to the war. The Catholic Church was the first to say that the US should even negoiate with IRAN. So the idea that the Catholic Church in any way supports the war is uneducated BS.
Bishop Thomas Tobin had privately asked Rep. Kennedy not to take Communion if Kennedey was going to support abortion. If he had let Rep. Kennedey have a pass on that then everyone would be screaming about how Bishop Tobin wasn't in keeping with the tenats of the Church teachings. Since Rep. Kennedey chose to not respect the Bishop's request, what else was the Bishop supposed to do?
The teachings of the Catholic Church are simple and straight forward.
Abortion is the murder of the totally innocent and defenseless who have done no wrong to anyone. Hell, the Catholic Church tried to get Timoth McViegh's execution commuted. So to all of you who don't really pay attention to what the Church does and says need to educate yourselves.
Good work Bishop Tobin.
Will the bishop refuse to allow communion for all of the pedophile priests, and the other MILLIONS of Catholics who have the same beliefs as Kennedy? I guess not because the Bishop isn't doing this for God he is doing it for the media attention. Wonder what God thinks of that faith based behavior.
The communion denial would only matter if it meant something real.
But, like all the other non religious political things done in the name of religion it is BullS***.
Well, how Catholic! The Church never touched Teddy or his brothers–oh, no–because they had too much clout! But poor little Patrick, the ne'er do well, will be the example because he costs them nothing. So, true to form, I'll wager that Biden will go untouched as well!! Hypocrisy is alive and well in the cult!!
yeah, that's a shame...if anyone needs saving, it's a Kennedy.
The catholic church... the sanctuary of pedophiles. They need to be shut down... Who do these pervies think they are, trying to shove their s.t.u.p.id morals on us? They want to play politics, they need to pay taxes instead of taking money and expanding their wealthy empire. These arrogant arms-dealers and traffickers who help perpetuate wars in Africa are despicable. The vatican – the richest "nation" on earth – should be liquidated help restore all the African nations it has destroyed, distribute some of its wealth to the little boys who were raped by Catholic priests... and BANNED from ever operating on this earth!
Kennedy is also a member of the Catholic Church. The guidelines for receiving communion are clear. You cannot receive communion in a state of mortal sin. Material cooperation with evil is a mortal sin. Catholics believe that abortion is in itself an evil. He has rejected Church teaching and his own obligations for the sake of his political career. The Church has every right to deny him Communion. Communion is a Sacrament and a Grace. It is not a right to partake of the sacrament–it is a privilege. He sinned, continues in his sin, and like some of the misguided posters here, presumes that he can change the teachings of his Church because they don't suit him. The Gospel is not a political platform, nor is the Magisterium, the teaching authority of the Church. His own revelation of a private determination made by the bishop is evidence of his own misguided pride. As for the rest of you, your anti-Catholicism is the best evidence that the Bill of Rights is the best defense against totalitarian bigotry. You cannot outlaw those who disagree with you based upon their moral beliefs. Religious citizens have every right to make their views known in the public square and to act upon them. Your own intolerance will be your downfall in the end.
I think if 99.9% of us, had to help perform an abortion and use the machine to see where the baby is at to kill it, we will all be against abortion. Can you imagine seeing a baby fleeing inside the mother's womb to escape being killed?
The baby has a heartbeat and that is all that matters. Why do we let criminals live? They have heartbeats.
Its the same as telling him "if you support abortion rights, Santa Claus will not bring you any presents."
Hypocrites ...
I was a catholic and spoke to 3 different priest about recieving communion as a freemasonand it ok with I recently went through the steps to recieve communion and at the end of the process I was informed that unless I give up being a mason(because they are against the church,and are trying to overthrow the the government) I would never be able to recieve communion.The church is very misinformed and I am happily not part of it.
Hey, Patrick, come on over to my house. I'll share my wine and crackers with you!
icare: how does God tell you it's wrong - through some old celibate MALE priest who may impregnate women or molest boys but will never get pregnant himself??!
Yes, the church considers abortion a sin and only grants communion to those who repent from their sins, but Kennedy hasn't had an abortion, he's just not opposed to them. Is disagreeing with the church - philosophically and in thought - the brand of a sinner?
To Duckie,
Oh dont worry!! When the rapture takes place, all God-fearing and loving Christians will be taken out of earth.
You all will be left with non-believers. You'll have earth all to yourself. So dont worry about the church!!
You can all do whatever you want and no one will stop anyone of you. But beware, that is also the end of the world.
Church dogma is that abortion is murder. Fine. As far as I can tell, Mr. Kennedy hasn't had an abortion, nor has he recommended to any woman to have an abortion.
What Mr. Kennedy has done is argue that women should be allowed access to abortion. Does merely making the wrong kind of argument now warrant punishment from the Church? Yes, and this is nothing new. Ask Mr. Luther, the Templars, Mr. Galileo, and any number of other people who have done nothing but publicly disagree with Rome.
Organized religions cannot die fast enough for me.
and to those who say this is a private matter..they are wrong..when one is given and " if or else ultimatum that is black male...if you support abortion we will not permit you to receive our holiest sacrement.of your church....has nothing to do with morals
Please start taxing all the religious organizations that influence the way their members vote. The deficit will be gone in no time.
The purpose of the church is to prevent religious experience.
To Ryan,
Sorry, sir, but this has ...... everything........ to do with the church attempting to influence politicians and their politics, by taking away the Eucharist which we, Catholics, hold as precious.
The bishop, and others like him are clearly saying "do as we believe or lose your right to Holy Communion".
I take great comfort in the Gospels, where Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites for forcing people to follow the law, while they themselves did as they pleased!
All I have to say is, PEDOPHILE PRIESTS have been PROTECTED by these very bishops!
NO ONE IS PERFECT, we are ALL sinners, here. Bishops are not gods, nor do they have the right to judge and condemn!
To Jason B
With Jesus, the standard is HIGH. He said to the prostitute 'Go and Sin no more'.
Jesus EXPECTS the best from all of us and if we cant reach it, he's provided a way, repenteance and forgiveness....
Jesus did not come to set the bar low, but to give us a mean to live above the level of our sins. Through Christ, we can ask for forgiveness and be made right with God.
Yes, you can come as you are, and he will accept you and give you guidelines to be the best you can be.
I am a practicing Catholic. I have watched my church hide pedophiles and look the other way when their members support the death penalty and immoral wars. i will continue to receive communion and work toward equality of all people, gay or straight, black or white, sinners or saints, as long as I am able, fallible church or not.
this is why i have left the catholic church
they hate gays
and chase away more with thier plotical statements
and how church and state is abused in our political arena
No more tax exemptions for ANY church. Why do we subsidize nonsense? It is quite clear that God has nothing to do with politics OR religion.
About time that a priest has stepped up. Abortion is murder, plain and simple.
The Catholic Bishops and Pat Robertson should agree to this as well; that the church like Islam is now a part of the United States poliical process....Politicians should NOW be afraid of whatEVER they do in their public or political life; like supporting the status quo in abortion laws could draw the ire of the likes of catholic bishops who will de-communion you...all in the same breath as the Islamic religion; it is tantamount to an Iraqi or Afghanistan politician getting killed or banned for entering the mosque for opposing Sharia law, by the Taliban; just another religious zealot...or a t e r r o r i s t fate!
Mixing politics and church or the Islamic religion is a recipe for disaster!...and the catholic bishops like the Taliban are threading on this dangerous path!!!!
icare..and if you ever witnessed a back ally abortion you woul not want to prevent a woman from having a proper medical proceduar abortion in a micidal clinic...i guesss ou woul like to go back to the pre- roe vs. wade era
To JR
The church is against stealing. You are an individual in power. You vote to allow stealing. How is it right?
There are certain things in your life that you must know what God expects of you. You need to listen to God and not men, political parties or power.
It starts with knowing God and then everything will fall in place.
There is separation of church and state in this country. Our country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION. The 10 commandments have no place in our public, tax payer built buildings and spaces. There should be no prayer in public schools. Priests should not tell their parishioners how to vote. PS I am a Pro-Choice Catholic.
I suppose now, that Bishop Thomas J. Tobin is off to molest a little boy! This idiot would probably like to start up the torture chambers of the Inquisition again. How disgusting!!
Now the Catholic Church is deciding which sinners it wants to demonize. And Patrick Kennedy for only his actions as a representative. Not even for anything he has really done himself. Every other sinner gets a pass. Apparently supporting abortion rights is worse than actually having an abortion. Or using birth control. Or any number of sins.
How do you spell hypocrisy? C-A-T-H-O-L-I-C
I may not have a lot or be the most successful but I did it by myself without a god or bishop. I don't have to bow down to any god or bishop. Religion is for people who do not have enough confidence in themselves, bigots and racists. Forget the bishop.
And shouldn't you catholics be in church right now?
ICARE: so the fact of a heartbeat makes it murder? I take it you must be a vegetarian, then.
Well, well....gee, that's mild compared to all of the other terrible things the Kennedys did to which the Catholic Church turned a blind eye.
Some people like to play God, and others prefer to listen to God. I sincerely hope Mr. Kennedy isn't using this "news item" as a political strategy to boost his voting base. That would be, uh, hypocritical.
ICARE: God told me that until a baby is born it's an angel. Why would he say something different to everyone else? Obviously someone is lying. It's not me. God tells me so. every day. I dare anyone to tell me different. After all, it's God's word, not mine..
Just goes to show how deep the Catholic church has dug it's own grave. I hope the Catholic church falls hard, hard on it's ass.
I am not religious but those bashing the church are flat out wrong. The church did not make this public, Kennedy did. It is the Church's obligation to bar him if he is acting and living outside their teachings.
To Tired
A human heartbeat is worth more than an animal. God values us above all creatures and God expects us in return, to treat them with decency.
It is my uttmost wish that the entire world would stop paying attention to the ridiculous mumblings of every single religious person on the planet. It's high time we all grew up and stopped believing in the tooth fairy, as well.
My point being, what does it matter what a bishop or priest, or pope, or immam, or rabbi says or does. They base their oppinion on religion so their thought process is warped to start with.
To all of you people criticizing the Catholic Church for this; It is the Catholic Church's prerogative to set standards for their members and is none of your business. If someone does not like the standards, they are free to leave the church.
It is part of catholic faith to not murder. If Mr. Kennedy supports abortion, then he is not Catholic and should not receive Holy Communion just the same as any other non catholic is not allowed to receive Holy Communion.
If the Roman Catholic Church refuses to enter the twenty first century, disaffected Catholics are welcome to join progressive Protestant denominations.
To ICARE: You should adjust your medication.
I want my church to unconditionally support Health Care, for the needy, rather than throwing roadblocks to defeat a Pro-Choice issue that should be fought in another arena. My congressman Bart Stupak and the Catholic Bishops are off base using the bill to defeat an issue that has been resolved in our highest court.
I do not want to be told how to vote by my church!
If Kennedy doesn't want to follow the dictates of his religion, he should leave the church. I did.
The hypocrisy of THE CATHOLIC CHURCH! Refusing comminion to Patrick Kennedy because he believes in abortion. How about the Catholic priests that drive a nice car, life in a nice rectory, drink out of a gold chalice, and yet people living around them are homeless and starving to death? Should they receive communion? How about the thousands of nuns and priests that are gay and living with other gay nuns and priests? Should they receive communion? How about the thousands of priests who have rapped and molested children? Should they receive communion? How about the Bishops and Cardinals who knew about these perverts and kept transferring them to another parish without telling anyone about what they did, so they could continue to molest other children in the new parish? Should they receive communion? Cardinals like Cardinal Maloney in Los Angeles. Should he receive communion? Receive communion? They should all be put in prison for aiding criminals! How about the Pope and all the Cardinals in Rome who live in beatiful villas, drive expensive cars, eat steak and lobster, and have millions and millions of dollars in the Vatican Bank, while people all around the world are homeless and starving to death! Should they receive communion? How about Pope Pius X11 who helped Hitler eliminate the Italian Jews? Should he have received communion? If the Jesus Christ I know from the Bible came back, he'd go straight to Rome and have the Pope sell all the Churches and schools in the world, for The Catholic Church are the biggest land owners in the world, and take all the millions of dollars from the Vatican Bank and FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS, VISIT THE SICK AND BURY THE DEAD(words of Jesus). The Catholic Church could end homelessness and starvation in the world, all by themselves! Then maybe they would all deserve Comminion.
Dan D.
Did the Bishop bar those priest from receiving communion who sexually molested young boys too?
And what of Nathan, Father Henry Willenborg's son? Born in 1977 and now dying of brain cancer. The church has supported him and refused to assist in the costs associated with his last days and his expected funeral.
"Father Willenborg’s Franciscan superiors were aware of his relationship with Ms. Bond well before Nathan was born. A year earlier, Father Willenborg and Ms. Bond had conceived another child. Ms. Bond said that Father Willenborg suggested she have an abortion, which she found unthinkable. He finally informed his Franciscan superiors of their liaison."
The church (and I was raised catholic-- even went to a convent school!) cannot "pick-and-choose" when to intervene. If they are this vocal on abortion then they need to be equally vocal on the wars, death sentence, environment, global warming, and anything else that endangers human life.
Should they CHOOSE to try to influence these decisions then we can CHOOSE to revoke their tax exempt status.
I'm up for the fight!
The church is worried about abortion. They couldn't protect little boys from perv priests but they are WORRIED about abortion.
To FalseNews
Dont worry, when the rapture takes place and all the decent Christians are taken away, you'll have your FALSE religion with your FALSE gods and your FALSE leaders to give you hope.
The end is near so dont worry about the churches. What is left behind are the lost and the lukewarm who will have to decide whether they want to follow God or the Devil.
Relax, the FALSE church and one world government is coming soon...
The Catholic Church, which is ... need I remind everyone ... governed internally by the Pope, a man who ... I might add ... Is NOT a United States citizen, has decided to lobby against American policy making, trying to influence our American congress.
Go figure.
Question is, were all the priests who sexually abused the young year after year after year also not given communion, or was that an "internal" concern as well?
Hyprocrits, all. Loose the tax exempt status for ANY church willing to meddle in American politics.
Bishop bars Kennedy from communion
The church as far refusing to give communion to Kennedy who was debating issues in the healthcare bill, may as well refuse it to half the catholics.
Since when is communion an award, it's food for the road.
This healthcare bill as many bills is a bigger issue than just simple black & white answers, we need to talk about the differences, debate the issues, not go my way or no communion for you.
Who's to say your way is God's way?
Kennedy is not taking the country into a war that has killed so many innocent lives for no good reason, he is saying lets give healthcare to millions of people. He sounds like a good caring person, these issues need to be debated before the bill will either be passed or not.
This is not up to a Bishop and it is SO WRONG to denied communion if it's make public or not!!!
Big deal. The Catholic Church has also allowed the annulment of marriages after 20 yrs and several kids, when it is politically convenient.
With bishops like this who needs the devil?
If you are not a true Catholic, you would not understand the reason for the bishop's position. So don't go around critizing something you don't understand. Say what you will, but abortion is murder and if you support it, or support some one to have the choice, you are supporting murder.
In the end the Catholic Church can dictate whatever it wants, and Mr. Kennedy can choose to abide or not, that's his prerrogative.
Jesus Christ would be ashamed of what has become of his father's house. To many of today's religious leaders are no better than the high priest who sought to bring about his death because he dared to challenge the narrow thinking of their little minds..
Folks! Go google on LAZARUS PHENOMENON and you'll understand what God expects of you.
The story is about two men that died and came back to tell the stories of what they saw in heaven and hell.
After watching this video, you'll understand what is important and what is not important and not worth fighting for...
He's a VOLUNTARY member of the church...he needs to follow their guidelines. If he does not, he should leave it or they shold kick him out. It's really not more complicated than that.
To Lynda,,,
That is the reason the Protestant broke out of the Catholics. We wanted God and we didnt want man-rule religion.
God bless the Catholic Chruch. I am sure there are some great decent Catholics.
For Protestant, we have moved on to a newwer freedom of reading the Bible for ourselves and having a direct relationship with God.
My favourite part of the anti-religion lobby's discourse is how they continue to call religious people hypocrites, idiots, morons, and repulsive and so on and then call members of the Church hateful. I wonder whom they would hate if the Church were not around...
I was raised Catholic and because of the oppression of thought, grossly elaborate masses (akin to gold and idol worship) hypocrisy and double standards that exist within not only the heirarchy but in the general catholic population coupled with a superiority complex that catholics seem to never let go of, I left decades ago. It's has been one of those decisions that although difficult at the time given how I was raised, I am really satisfied with. In addition I am constantly reminded of how lucky I am to not be associated with the catholic religion. These reminders come along from news reports, criminal and civil suits and via catholics I come across in my life. They are a laughable bunch, holding onto some romantic image of themselves as a pure, superior group. Thank GOD I am not one of them.
well, churches of any denomination should not be involved in politics. However this is beyond the politics, this is about protecting the miracle of life. Couple of months ago they did first sonogram on my wife, we are pregnant with our first child, seeing the heart beat on sonogram. It got me thinking that day, how can somebody end a life inside the womb, how can a doctor who takes Hippocrates oath be part of the killing.
Catholic church and clergy are not dictating the policies in this country, just protecting the miracle of life. Catholic clergy to protect life and believers have suffered greatly under oppressive regimes all over the world.
You just do not hear about clergy from other denominations who have separated from the mother catholic church do the same, when the going gets tough, back to US.
To Steven
We need to think about prevention and adoption not abortion. If you dont want the kid, put it up for abortion the minute it is born.
A catholic friend told me that because of abortion, there is less babies to adopt. So years ago, he was very lucky that they were able to adopt babies.
Strip this church of their non-tax status, and start taxing them since they've become a political entity,
Religion is the breeder of hate for others. We all are OTHERS. I do not think G-d is happy with what he has wrought. Love and caring for ALL was probably what he wanted. No pre-requisites. Abortion – well you will never stop that – if not legal it will be done illegally and then you will have 2 dead. Recall what we had before Roe vs Wade. Choice would go under the heading of Love and Caring. The moneyed people would still be able to have a safe abortion but the poor will be dead in an alley. And Birth Control Pills and education could eliminate many needs for CHOICE. Certainly NOT abstinence or the Rhythm system. ROFL Now that is ignorance and for that NO COMMUNION. Such silly hypocrits.
It's pretty amazing that the Catholic church hates abortion, but they won't support contraception in order to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Especially in times when we are facing global climate change and food and water shortages, it seems more than irresponsible to procreate and procreate and procreate as the church advocates.
I've never met anyone who says abortion itself is good; most people would advocate fewer abortions. To do this, contraception education needs to be a priority. How about being a part of the solution instead of a perpetual voice of dissidence, Church?
Time to find an accepting church.
Does the church deny communion to people that support WARS or the death penalty? I really don't know. I am just asking a question.
ICARE wake up. There is no god or devil.
As a Catholic I believe in the dignity of every human person, born or unborn, innocent or guilty. The senseless killing of millions of unborn children shows how cruel and heartless our society has become.
His enemies demonized Jesus for standing up for the truth, for the poor and defenseless, for those who have no voice of their own against the powerful, the rich, the selfish. Should we be surprised that his enemies demonize the one Church he founded, the Roman Catholic Church? The press, our liberal government, so-called pro-choice "Catholics" (you can't be both, you hypocrits) – these are the enemies of love and freedom, especially when they work so hard to justify the crime of abortion, which is just "murder" by another name.
I am a practicing Roman Catholic educated in Catholic private schools. I am appalled at the interference in politics and the private lives of citizens undertaken by my own church. And now intimidation of an elected congressman. I thought the revelation of sexual abuse of children was the low point for my church. The vatican and it's minions have now stepped off the cliff. It is time to stand up and tell Benedict to shut up.
Wow, lots of Catholic bashing... Not sure you need to insult people for having a great relationship with God and their faith. Look, if you don't want to believe, that's up to you, but rediculing someone for having faith and being Catholic is just unnecessary and hurtful. In short, it shows a lack of maturity and understanding.
That said, I'm not sure you can legislate morality either with respect to the abortion issue. Plus, the fact that the bishops chose to withhold something that is not theirs to give (i.e. a gift from God, not man) makes me angry. It's decisions like this that make the Catholic church misunderstood in the eyes of the public. The Catholic Church does great things for the poor, sick, and needy, but decisions like this make it look callous and arrogant.
It is time for all of us who "grew up Catholic" and also are educated and enlightened to the causes of social justice to leave the U.S. Catholic Church. Good bye Catholic Church, you certainly drove me away from the flock with your right-wing political power games and your profoundly backwards positions on birth control, gay marriage, etc. You add to the suffering in the world, and I personally have had it with the right-wing U.S. Bishops now firmly in power. Best wishes to Patrick Kennedy. Tens of millions of Catholics like me have moved on and are finding our place in other churches or groups who believe that Christ has called us to action to make the world a better and more loving place. For you many Catholics on the fence, just go. Don't worry, there are many great communities of faith out there - religious and non-religious - and you will be amazed at their spirit of charity and giving. Ask yourself, do you really think the "spirit of Christ" dwells among these U.S. Bishops? Open your eyes & hearts and you will see that spirit resides in so many other places. The U.S. Catholic Bishops have reduced the Church to a simple formula fitting for sheep - you must come to our church every Sunday, give us money, think and vote the way we tell you (or at least pretend to), or otherwise we will condemn you and push you out. These are men of ignorance and arrogance, like pharisees that Christ would revolt against if he were here. Just say no to these powerful Bishops. Walk away from their man-made "church" and power-structure.
Don;t go to that church. It's that simple.
The Bishop denies Patrick communion, but continue to give it tothe pedofile Priests. The Catholic church needs to be more concerned about living.
Beware right wing religious fanatics. The fiscal conservatives are deserting you as you poush them ouut of the Republican Party. The very shrewd Pope knows that you now need Catholics more than ever so he is stepping up his own
Congressman Patrick Kennedy should not refer himself as Catholic when he does not believe, practice, and support the church teaching that abortion is wrong. Killing innocent babies through abortion as a result of the women promiscous behavior. Pregnancy could have been prevented if women and men would not involved themselves in irresponsible sexual activities. These women were having fun during their sexual activities then they should burden the consequences of their risky behavior, except if the result is through rape, incest, or could result on life threat of the woman. So Congressman Kennedy stop calling your self Catholic.
Kennedy should leave the catholic church. Everyone should. I was raised catholic. Four years of catholic high school (even my catholic parents knew better than expose me to the nuns!) and four years of catholic university (where I minored in Theology, actually). One day – an epiphany. The catholic church was the most intellectually and morally retarding force in my life. I left the church and never looked back. I take pride in very few things in my life, but leaving the catholic church tops the list.
to clarify the cloud of confusion here.
There are actually three states in the abortion battle
1. Those who oppose abortion and feel that position should be imposed on everyone else.
2. Those who feel abortion is a good.
and finally,
3. Those who do feel abortion is a personal matter that should not be controlled by the government.
To remind folks fo the libertarian position. There are many things I may think are wrong but I prefer not to impose my beliefs on everyone else - including those who may believe the opposite.
What ever happened to live and let live instead of forcing everyone to believe what I believe?
The debate constantly tries to eliminate the third position by characterizing pro-choise as being pro-abortion.
Get the church out of politics!! Agree, no more exemptions. I also agree, what about killing people (who are already here) in war? What a bunch of crap. I was raised Catholic, but then I got an education. It doesn't make me w/out a spirit or soul, just not a blind "follower." The priest who performed my father's memorial service was later discovered to be a child abuser, that creep. How dare the church do crap like this!
Bunch of useless pedophiles. I guess they're worried that abortion is killing off their next generation of victims.
The Catholic Church is against capital punishment as well, but I don't see them banning politicians who support it. Hypocrits.
the doctorines of Catholicism are not the by-laws of a country club. it's ideoologies are not to make you feel good...they are to make you think...about your motives...to instill a conscience to your actions...to consider a greater good than the good that will benefit our individual needs and desires.
is this man for abortion because it will gain him more votes?
the bishop isn't running for office...and neither is the Church.
.
we the people of this country have about as much separation of church and state as we can stand...we are militant, self-serving, and hateful..and hardly ever Trusting in God.
Please people. It's LOSE not LOOSE. You lose your mind, your pants are too loose.
Why has 80% of America forgotten how to spell.?
Why not wait until we find out if this is actually true before making this a podium for your long-held views–on both sides?
Hey ICARE – Where is Jesus when women are being raped, and crack mom's are selling sex for drugs? Oh, wait, I know – Jesus is in your imagination!
This Bishop, must be a Republician!
He can always leave the church if he doen't beleive in her teachings.
If he is complaining he shouldn't. Everyone knows the Church does
not beleive in abortion . Rose must be turning over in her grave Isn't
that the old saying??
Thomas Tobin, you are not God. You don't any special relationship with god over your brothers in this world and you have no authority to deny a brother a Holy ritual which was established by Jesus Christ and not you or the catholic church. If you were a true Christian, you would let God do the Judging and your place is to communicate love and forgiveness to your brother. Stop making the body something that separates you from yourself who is your brother. The body is not real and has no value to God IMHO. Everyone deserves Love. You do not have authority to deny love, you only have illusions that let you think you do. Just like everyone else. Thanks.
Communion in the Catholic church is a privelege, not a right. Just like any "club" – if you don't wanna follow the rules, then you can't be in the club. What is so hard to understand about that?
Tell the Catholic Church to stick it. Their views are too parochial for the present day and time... at least 300 years worth.
Talk about public funding... why is our government paying out tax dollars to fund religious charities and other religious organizations? That's not where I want my tax dollars to go.
It is truly sad when the concept of seperation of church and state are being ignored by both sides
The Catholic church cannot deny communion to any believer, because it is not theirs. It is Christ's table, and all are invited.
That is like a private club saying only their members in good stnding may salute the American flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Rep. Kennedy should go to another church and receive communion,one that doesn't hyjack God's sacrament.
Why do some bishops think God can't sort out believers from non-believers without their help?
*** These women were having fun during their sexual activities then they should burden the consequences of their risky behavior, except if the result is through rape, incest, or could result on life threat of the woman ***
Well it doesn't sound like you'd make much of a Catholic either, since the Catholic Church DOES NOT make exceptions for rape or incest.
I agree with GI Joe. Religion is the basis for 95% of the wars on Earth during the entire existence of Man. If you're going to make such a mess of society, you have to pay for it.
The bishop's office HAS commented and said that the bishop never gave any such instructions. You see CNN...there's this thing called "checking facts"...it goes like this.....
Interesting that the Catholic Church should take such a tough stand against its members supporting rights for non-Catholics, yet for decades ignored the sexual abuses perpetrated by its own priests. The Church is apparently willing to use its influence to scuttle health care for everyone in order to force their beliefs on others. As the Church apparently sees it, once an unwanted child is born, that life is "in the hands of God" (i.e. is someone else's problem). Let's take away the tax exemption for all churches and use the money to pay for universal health care.
Take away the their tax exemption! If they are meddling in politics, they should not be tax-exempt.
Hey wagon....it is a 'church and state' matter when they try to push their values politically...
What would you call it if they refused communion to you just because you were(are) retarded?
How many men who decry abortion have themselves gotten a women pregnant and gone on to become a dead beat dad not paying child support? A great many I imagine. Our courts are full of them.
Go figure...
Hey GI Joe, I don't want MY tax dollars going to support murder. Simple as that. Should I stop paying MY taxes, because I disagree with how the government is spending it???
Hey Patches or Splash Jr. - quit pretending to be a Catholic at election time to get votes. The Catholic church granted your dishonorable dad a Catholic burial and you continue to disgrace the church. What a loser you are!!! Say Hi to your father in hell.
I am appalled that the Catholic Church should use the kind of tactics they reportedly used towards Senator Kerry, Senator Ted Kennedy and
now Senator Kennedy's son. As with Muslim nations, the church or
mosque should not try to impose their views on others. If they were to
refuse Communion to women who practice birth control, the majority of women would be banned! The separation of Church and State is a
vital part of the freedom one shuld enjoy in a Democracy! By not allow-
ing priests to marry, how many break a Catholic rule? By refusing to
deal with priests who harm children and young people, they themselves break rules. As a practicing Catholic, I ask the Church to please clean up their own house. Thank You.
I am fascinated by Bishop Tobin's sense of righteousness.
In August 2009, a priest in Pawtucket resigned for sexual misconduct with a minor.
According to news reports, Bishop Tobin was aware of the sexual misconduct by this priest with a minor.
BISHOP TOBIN FAILED TO WARN THE PUBLIC OR PARISHIONERS ABOUT THIS PRIEST!
The story of Rev. Kevin R. Fisette and Bishop Tobin can be found in several news accounts.
I am not a fan of the Kennedy family, but is a vote in the House of Representatives a worse crime than a priest having sex with a minor?
Help me understand how the cover-up of sexual misconduct is fine, but the voting record of a House member (who represents people of many faiths in his House District) is so despicable that he should be denied Communion.
the catholic church's policies are backwards and out of date, and they only pick certain issues to get all riled about. how many people do they give communion to that use birth control, or ate meat on a friday? the world will be better when this wretched institution falls by the wayside.
Everyone assumes that all priest are perverts, molesting little boys, sitting on their high horse. No one has mentioned the teachers, nursing home nurses, fathers, mothers, uncles, and siblings who do the same thing everyday. Its not the Catholic Church which is corrupt, its human nature. Its in everybody, regardless what church you belong to, or any at all. I myself am Pro Life, but that is a choice that I have made. I do not force my beliefs on anyone. However, I do have a problem with where my tax dollars are spent, especially if it goes against my beliefs. People need to realize we are in this thing together, and its okay to disagree, but don't tear down someone's beliefs just because you dont agree. We should be beyond that.
I guess the moderator likes ICARE. Like Sarah Palin, she is good for lowering the bar in the debate. Of course, I think this is all as silly as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (or a pin head).
BEWARE right wing religious evangelical wingnuts. You have forced the fiscal conservatives out of the Republican Party. Now a very shrewd Pope is stepping into the vacume by asserting his power over the US Catholics. Don't be surprised one day if you wake up and find that the social and political policies of the US are a reflection of the will of the Pope! Regardless of the INTENT of separation of Church and State, this is the result if you do not define a clear separation.
Well, I'm sure none of the Kennedy's are upset with this. After all I'm sure they view themselves as God.
So much for the love of Christ in the catholic church.
I do not understand why everyone is so concerned with what the Catholic Church does. It has every right to tell someone that they can not receive communion If they are not going to follow doctrine. For those priest that molested little children they are human and are not Catholic in my eyes. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It is really funny how you fling mud at the Catholic Church when you let the other religions just do and say what ever they want. How about the Muslims, how about the Rev. Jessie Jackson. They all are supposed to represent God and look at what they do. As for abortion think of it this way, it involves 2 individuals, but only one has a say in whether or not they get to live. It baffles me that those who will stand up for a convicted killer and try and save them from the death penalty, will not think twice about killing a innocent human being. As for all the other issues the Church does come out and show it's disapproval of the it is just the media not sharing with you.
All of the issues with the Catholic Church and this is their priority. OK to murder thousands in the crusades, OK to torture those deemed a threat, OK for priests who molest children to give communion. Not OK for someone who supports free choice to receive it. The ridiculous thing is why anyone in their right mind would choose Catholicism.
First of all, as an individual PERSON he supports life, but as a POLITICIAN how dare he foist his personal beliefs on others?? would that not make the US like Iraq? or any other muslim country? Where religion rules everyone?
I am Catholic and I support choice for women. I personally would not have an abortion and I would try to council others not to have one either. However, I think it is wrong–and fundamentally anti-american–to force religious beliefs on others. Rather than make abortion illegal, why doesn't our society (and our politicians) make social conditions for families conducive to having children?? who would keep a baby when they get no support whatsoever from society AFTER that baby is born? All of you against public health care–are YOU going to pay for prenatal care? care for the child? All of you Lifer's say you value life, but where is your support for social programs that actually feed, clothe and house children?
Hypocrisy is unfortunately the religion here....
What about rape and incest? It sure is easy to get up on one's white horse and say that "promiscuous behavior" should not result in an abortion; it really shows one's true colors when they are forced to admit that rape and incest victims should not be allowed an abortion either.
And what about to save the life of the mother? If the result of the birth and/or pregnancy would kill the mother, and this was not known before the pregnancy, what then?
What about if there are multiple babies in the womb, and one baby is not healthy enough to survive, yet continues to take resources away from the other healthy baby or babies?
When it comes to humans, nothing is black and white, and all this right-wing, religious zealotry make it clear that no one is less aware of that than right-wing, religious zealots.
Isn't this the same church that burned countless thousands of people during the Inquisition? And that sheltered child molesters simply because they were "men of the cloth?" Myself, I need no further proof that god doesn't exist than the clergy that purport to represent that entity.
As for Kennedy, well, at least you can sleep in in Sunday morning, and I'm pretty sure you'll be okay, even if you can't have a piece of bread that's part of some bizarre cannibalistic ritual.
And for the bishops, if I want advice from a man in a dress, I'll check out the drag queens down in Manhattan. At least they know what it's like to work for a living.
Every year more people leave the Catholic Church. They struggle to remain relevant. Stand stong, Congressman Kennedy. Voting for a right to chose is voting to let a person have free will, not endorsing abortion as a solution for everyone.
So,
How much is the Roman Catholic Church paying in taxes now that they are taking a political stand?
Hey Carl from AC ....
Good luck with the spoon....
but your health insurance provider may not pay for the glass eyes account of a pre-existing condition(your crazy)!
*** Should I stop paying MY taxes, because I disagree with how the government is spending it??? ***
Hey moron, maybe I don't support wars. So I guess I could stop paying my taxes too on that basis.
The Catholic church is a perplexing institution to say the least. Riddled with pedophiles and highly questionable financial practices, it has made abortion its biggest cause. This has nothing to do with scriptures, because there are none which deal with the unborn or what differentiates a potential life from an individual. This is strictly an issue upon which the Church can build a constituency and enrich itself.
Anybody who has ever visited the Vatican knows how much value it places on materialistic things. Poor people living in rags walk into churches in Rome that are filled with gold, gem-studded statues (idols?) of dead people whom the Church has anointed as spiritual celebrities (saints). All must give, no matter how poor. And all must abide by the archaic standards set forth by the old men who have never had a family of their own and whose needs are fulfilled, even in world wars.
The notion that we should let this corrupt and hypocritical institution dictate our morality is a sad commentary on the wisdom of our citizens. When Lord Acton said "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely", he was referring to Papal power.
I truly hope all catholics out there supporting L-I-F-E are also as strict about pro-life issues as they relate to wars and the death penalty. Life is life, and it is quite hypocritical that I hear Catholics so strict to this doctrine as it relates to abortion, but throw it out the window when we talk about wars or the death penalty. The same people protesting outside abortion clinics should be protesting outside of the Capital as well.
Irrelevant Catholic Church once again playing politics from the pulpit. They keep alienating their members, their coffers are not as full, and their power weakens. Good riddance to church doctrine misread and misinterpreted by close-minded parasites. I agree with GI Joe, no more tax exemptions for them!
I think that the Catholic hierarchy should stay within their role as dictators of their dogma–and not as judge and jury. Isn't that God's job in their religion?
I hope that Patrick Kennedy continues to do what he thinks is right rather than letting himself be pushed around by Roman Catholic Church, the views of which have become increasingly irrelevant in our modern society and which should have folded up its tent a long time ago.
**** The bishop's office HAS commented and said that the bishop never gave any such instructions. You see CNN...there's this thing called "checking facts"...it goes like this..... ****
Uh, yeah brainiac, there's also something called "reading the article before commenting." The diocese's side of the story is noted.
That's the most rediculous thing I have ever heard . You cannot bar someone for their thoughts on a subject.
and please...respect other people's religions...if you don't agree with a tax exemption- don't agree- but don't disrespect other people for their religious beliefs.
The Catholic church isn't perfect- but neither is any other church. remember – it's a building- God is in your hearts and minds...
Hate is a powerful feeling..
Catholic Priest are far from moral and understanding..
I hate pediphiles.. and thouse that protect them,
Remember the Boston Cardinal? he protected Pedophile priest and now he is in a high position in Rome..
and so on, and so on..
Helth care is a good thing for all of us, don't let the inmoral church debank the effort..
At around 15 years old, I realized what a farce the Catholic Church is and left it. Over the intervening 30 years I've realized what a farce the whole concept of "religion" in general is.
You don't need a God or a Bible to do what you know is right. You only need them to justify what you otherwise know is wrong.
If only I was given the chance to live instead of being aborted by my liberal mother! If only I was given the chance to live instead of abortion being a form of birth control! If only Catholics like the Kennedys practiced what they supposedly preached at election time! If only aborted babies were given the same rights, respect, and priviledges as, er, illegal aliens in the U.S.
good, nice to see convictions in this day and age
no ones I agree with but I can respect that notheless
Mr. Kennedy might find another brand of catholic if he has a problem with this
however, the catholic church instructing others on morals sometimes doesn't go down so easy, what with their priests abusing little boys etc
If pro-life means what it should mean: (1) pro-life of unborn babies, (2) pro-life of grown adults, (3) anti-death penalty, (4) anti-loose gun laws, (5) anti-war, then why is it that the progressives – who are mostly pro-life (at least 80% pro-life by the above break-down) – are bashed most of the time as anti-life and barred from communion? And how is it that there is no problem with the right-wingers who are mostly anti-life by the above break-down?
In the on-going health-care debate, why are we so focused on the life of the unborn and at the same time seem to care less about the lives of the born?
As an Atheist, it's hilarious to watch people fighting over this mythic rite called Communion. Don't fret, I'm sure the unicorns have similar discord now and then.
If the Church wants to play a political role and insists on putting pressure on political figures to influence their vote then they are in violation of their Tax Exempt status.Make the church pay income tax, property tax, etc. Threaten their money, aand watch how quickly they change their tune.
Hmmm, apparently Bishop Thomas J. Tobin now believes he "sitteth on the right hand of God Almighty" in decreeing WHO receives communion!
Will his parishioners begin washing the bishop's feet daily?
The Roman Catholic Church began on the right foot after Jesus' death, but it has steadily gone downhill since then because the people have forgotten Who is in charge and Who makes the decisions, especially the final one–who gets through the Pearly Gates.
If Patrick Kennedy isn't allow through the Gates, will it be the Bishop's decision or God's????
Stay tuned!
If the bishop isn't also banning all others who support abortion rights, then it can be assumed that he is focusing only on influencing public policy, not the issue of abortion in general. As such, he violates the laws that protect his diocese's not-for-profit status.
TAX THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!
IThe Bishop is absolutly right. The Bishop is an spokes person for God, picked by God. In reality he is doing Kennedy a big favor. Jesus said"anyone recieves me under mortal sin condems himself.
It is about time.
This is a question that shouldn't even be asked. It is commen sense.
Thank You
Stephen Cataldo
@Debbie–you'd better watch it...you just confirmed your faith and your contradiction to their anti-abortion stance. They'll issue a Non-Debbie Communion policy!!
Hey Theresa – I don't want my tax dollars spent murdering babies in Iraq and Afghanistan either. Look in a mirror, sister.
All of this fuss over a sip of wine and a cracker.
Kenedy can get the same effect out of a bottle of Yellow Tail and Some Saltines.
This whole conversation is completely pointless.
For someone to day "The Priest must be a Republic" is just stupid. The Priest is a Catholic. If someone wants go to a church that supports abortion and divorce then join a faith that supports what you believe in. Don't be so fake that you just go to the church your parents showed you when you don't support anything they teach. That just shows how fake most "Catholics" are that hold office.
LG:
Because the third position makes no sense. It is a huge intellectual cop-out.
Abortion does not "live and let live", it "lives and actively ends the life of another".
And what does your position have to say on murder of a person after he or she has left the uterus? Would you impose your views on that on other people, or let someone kill another and just "not agree"?
And yet another reason not to join the Catholic church. I can respect their view on abortion, but not the point of refusing communion to someone who politically supports abortion within our legal framework. The Catholic church is still the ultimate thought police organization. No Condoms for Africa is their cry while many die from preventable std transmission.
All you people whinning about paying taxes for murder, are the same people who support the Death Penalty.
you can't have it both ways. It is absurd!
Ahh the hypocrisy of it all. The organization that has killed millions since its creation for power and control, killed those who thought differently and believed differently is refusing one of there own in power. I love it.
Non believers will cause the fall of the church so we must protect it hahaha. They bring themselves down from the inside once again trying to fill people with hated, doubt and hiding the wrong doings of trusted members of the community.
Abortion is murder so you can't follow our instructions to be saved blah blah blah. Several inquisitions, religious purging in many countries and they go against what can, when needed, save the lived of many women. Great job, great job. Keep up the good work so all you have left are fanatics, I see several in this tread.
As a recovering Catholic I'm not surprised especially with Ratzinger sitting on the papal throne. What would Jesus do?
Once again, these perverted male "celibates" force their will on reproductive issues, ignoring the "render unto Caesar" admonition. The solution here is to take away the tax exemption of the church and with all the child molestation monies flying out the door, they will be worthless, as they are morally bankrupt. anyone in your love life, Bishop Tobin? LOL
This is the same church that believes women are second class citizens and cannot become priests; that gays are a aberration to the world; and the same church that hushed up the priest child abuse i this country.
How dare the bishops try and stop a person from communicating with their own god? This is a fundamental difference between catholic and protestant........protestants believe our relaitonship is directly with god, not thru an intermediary which, especially these days, an intermediary with an agenda.
TAX the catholic church as a political action committee.
I don't want these Papists who were appointed by an evil , threatening and deceitful church, telling people how they can think and govern. This is the same church that instilled fear and death to millions of good people throughout the world for hundreds of years.
Choice is indeed every persons prerogative – but remember that in the case of abortion there are two people involved, one of which has little choice.
I'm Catholic – Catholic school all the way. I was raised so much differently then what I see coming from the Catholic Church right now. All my schools and my parents taught me the main goal of Christianity – Fellowship. This means loving all and helping all not matter what. No judging, treat others with respect and dignity. The Catholic Church has strayed from this so much, it makes my soul hurt.
The latest news that the Church will no longer help the poor in D.C because of a City Council vote on same sex marriage, and now this, is a strong sign that the Church should start paying taxes since they are very definitely playing politics.
TAX the CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!!
Derek in Colorado –
Bishop Tobin wasn't executing his freedom of speech as an American citizen by banning Kennedy from communion. He was acting as a Bishop for the Catholic Church trying to influence a potician through religious means. I'm a Catholic, but I don't like seeing our religious leadership trying to influence politicians this way. It's tantamount to religous extortion.
Lets see.the Bishop's are upset because politicans(catholic) support abortion rights and will deny them communion. Well every priest,bishop or cardinal that hid and supported those priest's that abused children should be denied communion at the least and ex-communicated at the most..What a bunch of hog wash for them to stand up on their pedistal and act rightous.They have NO right ot even talk on the subject with the sins they committed!!!!!
What is the value of choice if you cannot make that choice? Is it better for a woman to be forced to have a child of rape or incest, to prove a point about the human soul? Should the entire question be denied to her to work out, as she works her own salvation? If so, then by all means excommunicate Kennedy, because that is what the denial of communion means.
When Sandra Day O'Connor upheld Roe v. Wade, she did it by asking an important question about state interest in abortion: if the state can deny the right to abortion, can it also force abortion in other circumstances (as China has done)? If the state can rear its head to stop something, it can also exercise its force to compel something.
Abortion should always be a matter of a woman's individual conscience. There is no other way which does justice to role of mother in this society, or to a woman's autonomy.
So every catholic who supports choice for women and is public about it is now going to be banned as well? So who is going to police this? The RC church has so many bigger problems...rampant peodophilia among priests, massively declining attendance and contributuions to the church and it mysogynistic treatment of women ..........take your heads out of your butt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Children, please.
Religions – ALL religions – are a series of fairy tales fabricated by humans in an effort to control other humans.
Hopefully, humanity will someday come to its senses, like a child realizing the truth about Santa and the Easter Bunny,
Unfortunately, there's a good chance that we'll destroy each other first.
Nice job, religion!
For all of you who support abortions, you are supporting a murder.
Why did your mother did not aborted you?.... that would save us a lot of problems in this liberal world that we live.
Says alot for the Catholic church huh????.....but yet they support raping little alter boys.
There is no way to debate a matter of faith.
Moreover, it is unwise to debate a fool; soon, nobody can tell the difference.
Given that the Catholic Church hid and harbored molesters for so many years – and likely still does – I find this brand of hypocrisy to be astounding.
It is about time that the church stand up to these murders and tell them to go straight to HELL. Abortion is MURDER!!!!
First of all, Kennedy supports the RIGHT of people to choose whether or not to have an abortion. This is an entirely different position than "supporting abortion." He is a politician in a secular country and should be applauded for keeping his religious theology separate from his duty to the citizens that don't share the belief of his church.
To follow the archbishop's logic, to stay true to his faith, Kennedy must also support laws banning extramarital affairs, premarital sex, homosexuality, masturbation, Scientology, Mormonism, and everything else that is antithetical to Catholic theology.
Defending someone's right to choose things that you yourself may not indulge in is the cornerstone of a real democracy.
If I may, not trying to speak for Senetor Kennidy but I don't necessary think his decision means that he believes in abortion, I think his meaning is he belives that the people have a choice and he's not willing to take the peoples choice away. I believe he is one that is not wanting to judge the people not like all the Catholic's and Christians out there that so want to throw the first stone... "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
Perhaps he should convert and join another denomination. If he supports abortion rights it doesn't sound like he's a very good catholic.
Another example of religious idiocy.
Don't worry Mr. Kennedy...the bishop does not have the power to forgive you of any sins anyway...they only pretend so...Only God can forgive sins and He knows what is in your heart..you don't have to go to church to communicate with God...hasn't the church informed you that God is everywhere and knows everything? If not, consider yourself informed...
This catholic bishops have no heaven nor hell to put anybody. They better worry about themselves. Molestation is a SIN!
Support revocation of tax-exempt status from churches engaging in political action. · Write to your Congressman or Congresswoman.
I was raised Catholic ..however, they have become the biggest of all hypocrites.....they believe in no birth control (except for themselves), they don't believe in abortion (except in privacy) and they don't believe
in rape (except when it's an alter boy). Other than all of this, they're okay. I'm now a Methodist.
Catherine said it so well that I'm reposting her comments!!! (thanks Catherine!)
"In the United States, churches have no business sticking their noses into matters of state. We are not a Catholic state–the Catholic Church does not dictate and shall not dictate government policy. I am an American, but not a Catholic and do not want Catholic doctrine turned into government policy and crammed down now my throat and the throats of every American. We are a government “of the people, by the people, for the people”–not a government of the Catholic Church or any other church for that matter."
So much for separation of church and state.
And the Catholic church is in a snit because it is unable to repress women. Well darn the bad luck.
There in lies the similarity between the Church and the taliban. women are 2nd class citizens and need to be controlled by men.
Sorry, my God loves me because i was made in His image.
New generations will be the decision makers of the future and may not subscribe to the Catholic's sense of entitlement about making the religious rules for all Americans. New generations are not likely to see things the same way as religious institutions and Right Wing Extremists,
including Sarah Palin.
Gee, if the Catholic Church started banning everybody that supports abortion, uses condoms or birth control pills, or thinks committing obstruction of justice to hide child molesters just might be a bad idea, there wouldn't be too many left in the pews. Sorry, Father. Your moral authority has melted away in the last few years.
Patrick Kennedy was elected to support sound public policy for all of his constituents – not to enforce canon law. For all we know, Kennedy may be personally opposed to abortion but believe that in the public sphere the decision should be left to the moral conscience of the individual woman. Is the Catholic Church going to start denying communion to elected officials who support the death penalty, who vote for war, who don't support poverty programs? To me this is hypocrisy to single out politicians on one issue and not others. I agree that the church has a right to speak out on moral issues, but when they directly try to interfere with the elective process by censoring individual public officials they are over-stepping the separation of church and state.
Now will the diocese also restrict the remaining catholic senators and congressmen from communion?
This Bishop must be removed.
This Bishop literally has no right to say anything, publicly.
This is a perfect example where you must separate church and state.
The tax exemption must be take away from this church
I pray for all of you that don't know what you are talking about. I pray for the defenless babies that die everyday without even a chance. Look at Tim Tebow he was suposed to be aborted!!! How many like him actually die everyday!! I pray that the Lord will warm your hearts and open your eyes to this awful reality. I pray that God will be back to our school and our nation before it is too late.
Which was worse? The amount of deaths from the catholic sanctioned crusades and inquisition or deaths from abortion.
Evil religion is just as evil as everything else in the world.
Tax the Church on the vast and enormous properties, real estate and other important revenue generating activities to pay for health care for the poor. Abortion is a cause of poverty. When a woman knows in her heart she will not be able to send a kid to school, to babysitting, to hospital etc, she's likely to seek an abortion. On the average, people would love to have the upsring with them and show them love. But when they know the kid would complicate matters, they likely to take an extreme decision. So, to mitigate the incidence of abortion, tax the Church on its properties and support program directing toward poverty reduction. Period.
This shows that there are a growing number of Christian churches that do not show a religion of love. Jesus let all those in need come to him, why must any church deny anyone part of all of their access to him. If churches really showed a religion of love, all would be welcome to fully worship no matter what their sins were, no matter what they believed politically and socially, and no matter where they have come from. Until the church can have open arms to all, there will continue to be stories like this is the news.
Allyana, if you want to know more about the Catholic faith, then try attendiing a mass or joining RCIA. No, soldiers who kill in war are not barred from the Eucharist as they are in combat and are willing to die if necessary to protect others. An abortion takes the life of an unborn child – one who has no say as to whether he or she would like to be born. In war, adults are fighting either to protect their homeland or to protect the rights of others.
Ethan,
For someone who maintains trust in history; you seem to be extremely ignorant of it. Yes, the Catholic Church was guilty of many things. However, compare that to the spread of Islam. The spread was by conquest, my friend. It is not and has never been the religion of peace.
By the way, the Spanish Inquisition was not under the control of the Catholic church hierarchy. Rather, it was controlled by the Spanish crown.
I'm not Catholic or Christian and am only a dabbler in history. For someone who puts his trust in history, your knowledge of history seems to be seriously lacking in both depth and breadth.
Best,
Byron
It is way, way past time to start taxing these "churches". The Catholic
Church continually interferes in the government of our nation, states and localities. When is the IRS going to grow a pair and do something about it?
We as a nation must begin to move beyond ancient superstition and progress as a society.
Religion divides and the root of all evil is....Religion.
I sure hope pedophile priests have been barred from taking communion, also.
The Chatholic Church, its Bishops & Priests are the biggest hypocrates going. What about the many innocent killings that are advocated by war mongering right wingers that hold prominant politacal positions? Why doesn't the Catholic Church withold the Blessed Sacraments form those individuals?
When all the West cave in for Islam, they persecute the Church.
I'm not a Catholic, but from what I understand, there is no basis for distinguishing abortion from capital punishment, so why don't any bishops bar politicians and lawmakers who support the death penalty from communion? Also, from what I understand, the Vatican does not support bishops selectively jumping into the political fray like this, so on what authority do American Catholic clergy pull this kind of crap?
According to the Bible, since the churches supposedly base their religious doctrine on it, church leaders are ordered to stay out of government affairs.
Hypocrites!
I agree with the Bishop. Anyone who supports abortion has no right to receive the Eucharist. A catholic who supports abortion is not a catholic. Receiving the Eucharist is a privilege not a right. This whole idea that every American has the god given right to do whatever they want is outrageous. That is a major problem in our society. The Bill of Rights was designed to give us all these freedoms. I would love to know why we think those rights do not extend to citizens without a voice, like our children born or unborn. On that subject I would love to know why everyone should have the right to free healthcare? Isn’t that a privilege?
Church leaders leap at the opportunity to rehabilitate convicted murderers, proud of their accomplishments to persuade people who have directly disobeyed one of the most clear commandments. The Eucharist is not withheld from them. Why, then, would a political stance on abortion be so grave and hold so much more weight over a person's ability to receive communion than actual murder?
Personal opinions of whether abortion is murder or a woman's right aside, I think both sides of the fence should be able to agree political motives are the motive behind such a brazen and hypocritical move.
Many a Catholic have had abortions....they keep it quiet and privately critize others who have done the same.....and they scarf down many a communion wafer without blinking an eye.
Why do people even subscribe to a so called religion that tries to control and manipulate their lives? Sad... that so many do this.
How can anyone take any organization seriously that didn't recognize Galileo was right until 1996?
Time to remove their tax exemption!
Dear IRS,
Please begin taxing all religious entities who are claiming tax exemption. They are interfearing with our Constitutional based government.
Thank you,
American Taxpayer who has been paying more in local property taxes to cover these so called "churches" for more than 50 years.
If he also asked Kennedy not to believe any of the other medieval mythology that passes for church doctrine, we would be making real progress. The Church of the Ignorant in Latin America and Africa is the longest running con game in recorded history; that it has any influence on US public policy is an abomination.
I think this may be part of the reason that my Episcopal parish is about half former Roman Catholics.
Does the catholic church deny communion to any politician that is for the death penalty?
You deny Kennedy because he believes women deserve safe medical care, but you protect priests who fondle little boys?! This is why I left this hypocritical faith after all those years of brainwashing in catholic school!
Mike and Others–
Thousands of Catholics WHO HAVE HAD ABORTIONS receive communion on a regular basis. Why pick a high-profile legislator for this injunction unless you are trying AS AN EFF-ING CHURCH to influence US public ploicy? That's cause to lose the tax exemption–and the sooner the better.
The moment that the bishop "asked" Kennedy not to receive communion was the exact moment that the Catholic Chuirch in Rhode Island should have lost its tax exemption. They simply cannot have it both ways.
Bishop Tobin's decision speaks to the fact why so many of us have left the Catholic Church. Maybe they should start practicing morality by reeling in their out-of-control abusive priests and spend more time being relevant in the 21st century. Educated people are not willing to be dictated to by any religion, least of all from one that is so hypocritical.
Those who know little about history (and cannot spell correctly) make comments about past evils of the Catholic Church. Geneva under Calvin, Protestant England and parts of Europe persecuted Catholics mercilessly during the Reformation. American Catholics suffered in the nineteenth century because of the Klan and the Know Nothing Party, among others. No one has clean hands. Today the Church calls for an end to capital punishment. It sees abortion as murder. It would be remiss to not fight for the rights of those who cannot fight for themselves. During slavery, would all the self righteous hypocrites, who disparage the Church. have demanded that clergy that who supported emancipation be taxed? Four percent of Catholic priests have been accused of sexual misdeeds. The remainder have given their lives to faithfully serve God's people.
Bishop Tobin should seek to provide for his own hypocrital spiritual well-being. I suppose the good Bishop is OK with the abuse and molestation of children by Catholic priests after a child is born. Give me a break.
I'm a Catholic and I'm appalled by this type of behavior from the church.
What's worse is them vowing to close off all community services in DC if the gay rights goes through.
This issue is about faith and personal convictions. It has its roots going back to 1517 and Martin Luther and will not be settled on a CNN blog page.
In my opinion religious faith is between God and the person and not between a "human representative of God" and a person. How many good Catholics are using birth control? Where does the Church want to go with this issue, does it want to start the American Catholic Church?
Question: Is it a requirement according to Catholic faith to receive communion in order to get into heaven? In other words, are protestants like me who can't take communion in a catholic church doomed?
Tax the church! These douchebags are so out of line.
If the Roman Catholic Church wants to behave like a Political Action Committee and target an officeholder for exercising his First Amendment rights, perhaps it's time to review the tax-exempt status of the Roman Catholic Church. We have the concept of "separation of Church and State" in this country for a reason!
Religion is only directly relevant to the delusional. Hey flock, time to grow up and leave the playground in the mist.
I believe you can't pick and choose which facets of your religion you'll embrace. This is the church's stance and it's their perogative. Too bad they didn't take the same stance with other politicians.
Did they deny pedophile priests communion?
Time to start taxing the churches! Sounds more like a social club than a religion anyway. Will they prevent Muslims or Jews from converting because they thought differently at one time?
No more tax exemption for the catholic church!
Reading these comments about how abortion is "slaughtering innocent beings" makes me think of the question how can you be pro-life and pro-war. Innocent people are dying around the world because of our conflicts. But does it not matter because these civilians are muslim? What about the thousands of people currently dying because of genocide? Or do you just care about not "killing" a being who hasn't started their journey of life yet? Not about grown men and women who are being tortured and suffering?
Get off your high-horses. You support killing too, just the killing of adults.
Yet another reason why organized religion is in itself, the devil.
Apparently the Bishop and the rest of the religious fanatics missed the part about separation of church and state.
Whether Mr. Kennedy takes communion or not is between him a God. Every one else, including the Bishop should back off.
Folks actively living in sin (have accepted to live with sin and no longer struggle to be free) can and should be denied Christian fellowship and the breaking of bread (they have denied Christ and the Church). Their participation is a hindrance (like the yeast of the Pharasies) to the spiritual growth of the rest of the community. He who struggles may stay for there is hope yet for their freedom, he who has surrendered to sin (promoting abortion... etc) fights under a different banner then that of the Church's.
It's often been said that historically the real purpose of the church – as part of the ruling classes – was to contol and intimidate the people. Obviously, that's still true.
Whether Mr. Kennedy takes communion or not is between him and God. Every one else, including the Bishop should back off.
I bet, or should I say "Betcha" that the Bishop would not stop him if he knew Kennedy played around with little boys! Betcha!
These Bishops think they are the direct link to God but they are far from it; they however are closer to the Devil. It's ok to commit sin during the week then go confes to the Holy of Holies; who have them that power? They should be confessing on their knees every second of everyday.
More human beings have been killed by the Catholic church in the name of God, than any other organization since the dawn of time...
If the Bishop and other posters here believe that Kennedy should be denied communion for supporting the right of others to an abortion, what about all those "devout" practicing Catholics who fully embrace birth control, a practice the Church says is sinful?
Why would Kennedy make what has been a private issue public? If he thinks he is going to garner approval he is wrong. The Catholic Church does not make its decesions based on polls.
Unfotunately Kennedy is more interested in doing what he thinks is popular instead of having a spine and practiicing what his church teaches.
If he is not happy about it – he can easily leave the Chruch – nonone is making him stay.
I say good ridence.
The Catholic church is nothing more than an oppressive, sexist, antiquated institution that imposes it's moral dogma as a means to control what people think and do. It has contributed more to human suffering through it's sexually abusing priests then it has allievated suffering. You have millions living in poverty who adhere to their birth control beliefs instead of practicing reliable birth control methods.
And one more thing while I'm thinking about it.
Isn't the Catholic Church also against the death penaty? and divorce?
Why is it just pro-choice Democrats who get "refused holy communion"?
Seems odd to me. Do they bann Scalia from Communion?
He has much more impact on the death penalty than Ted Jr. does on abortion?
If Kennedy doesn't like the stances that the Catholic church takes then don't be a member. It's that simple. The fact that he brought this out into the public tells a lot about the strength of his own faith. This was a personal matter between him and his spiritual leader. The church didn't bring this into the public, he did. So the Catholic church is not playing politics. Kennedy was treated no differently then any other catholic. Kennedy is trying to make himself look like a victim, just like most democrats. As a Catholic, I don't know if I agree with refusing him communion. But I do know that I don't agree with Kennedy coming to out to the media about it. By doing so he is backing his personal spiritual adviser and "beloved church" into a corner and bringing bad publicity to the church for his own benefit. Seems like Kennedy is begging for a hug, since the church won't give him one.
Maybe one day it will be illegal to say what you believe. Then no one will be offended by anothers views. Evolution minded individuals would then conclude that abortion on demand is detrimental to the procreation of a species. After all its not observed in the natural world. Of course we should be more evolved than animals who occasionally eat their young in time of need (or rather instinct). Besides who wants to claim faith in any system of belief unless there is a consensus as to what defines their faith as genuine. Nothing like wishy washy believers to question the BELIEF! Ask your neighborhood imam what he believes then march on his space if you disagree. I think you will get my point. HYPOCRITS DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS!!!
The Catholic church needs to stop using the most holy of sacraments for political manipulation. Until Roe v. Wade is overturned, abortion is legal. Kennedy is simply supporting a woman's right to choose. It does not mean he is "pro abortion" or would ever encourage someone near him to have one. This is an example of religion at its worst. But as history bears out, the Catholic church has done more harm in the world and murdered more people than probably ANY OTHER religious organization in existence (and in most brutal ways, as during the inquisition). The Catholic church also ensured centuries of ignorance during the dark ages. It's interesting to speculate about how much more advanced, technologically, scientifically, and philosophically, today if the Catholic church had never existed.
their a reason why we have separation of chruch and state
we don't need priests lobbying, I would make a law that says priest can't lobbying under separation of chruch and state
also patrick don't listen to this guy " suggestion " god does not judge us because of our views
he loves all egual no matter what our views are
Modern day Christianity is so far from Jesus Christ that he is about to come back and make it right. Christians have become judgmental blasphemous narcisists who need to look in the mirror. The anti-Christ you see on the outside is actually the anti-christ with-in.
I spent 12 years in the Catholic school system and had a very devout mother. My disillusionment with the Church came at 15 when my mother spoke to the priest about getting an annulment from my alcoholic father. He told her that in the Church's I would be considered illegitimate (he used the "b&*SW" word) in the eyes of the Church if she went through with it. Needless to say, my mother never went through with it and divorce was out of the question for her.
The problem with ALL organized religions is that they have nothing to to with God, but control of the Church hierarchy over their "sheep."
As far as I'm concerned, ALL churches should lose their tax exempt status since they all get involved in politics.
If the catholic church actually refused communion to all the catholics who disagree with the church's stance, their churches would be empty on Sundays.
The bishop is the one playing politics, not Rep. Kennedy.
Wasn't he arrested for DUI 1.5 years ago? Didn't he lie to the police and say he was going to a vote to try to avoid arrest? He is a spoiled rich kid who has never had to work or live check to check. His terrible position on abortion is only the tip of this pathetic congressperson's iceberg. He needs to be voted out of office. He needs to get counseling and help for his problems.