New Michigan plan proposed
[cnn-photo-caption image= http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/03/31/art.stupak.gi.jpg caption=" Stupak is proposing a new plan to seat Michigan's delegates. "]WASHINGTON (CNN) - Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak proposed a new plan on Monday to seat his state's Democratic delegates to the party's convention in August, factoring in both the results of the state's January primary and the total popular vote of all the primary contests nationwide.
In a proposal sent to Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, Stupak proposed allotting 83 of Michigan's pledged delegates based on the January vote, while the state's remaining pledged delegates and superdelegates - 73 total - are to be awarded based on the nationwide vote.
The DNC stripped Michigan of its convention delegates late last year after the state moved up its primary to January 15. Under pressure from other early-voting states, most of the Democratic presidential candidates removed their name from the ballot there.
But Clinton opted to keep her name on the ballot and ultimately received 55 percent of the vote, compared to the 40 percent of the vote that went for "uncommitted."
Under Stupak's proposal, Clinton would receive 47 delegates based on her vote total, while Obama would be awarded 36 delegates based on that "uncommitted" result; the rest would be divided according to the nationwide popular vote total after all the primaries are completed.
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Whomever said split 50-50 can forget it. Obama was an idiot to leave his name off the ballot in the first place, so it's his own fault. The allocation should be based on the votes from the primary, which would leave Clinton much farther ahead than 11 delegates....but whatever. Obama was able to block the re-vote and now all of a sudden he wants to make sure that the votes get seated "for the betterment of the party". Whatever. At least it will get done and then it will be over.
Either play by the rules or do a re-vote. Thousands of people didn't vote because they knew their vote wouldn't count.
They'll get nothing and like it.
I am surprise a right thinking person will base such a propsal on a basic premise of unfairness and injustice. Firstly, there was a rule for the game. The candidates were not supposed to go there. On what ethical ground is the January vote are counted. This is madness. Michigan and Florida should resolve their problem with the National Party. After that the best solution if there were sufficient time for both candidates to make their campaing – a revote. Otherwise this is not a right thinking proposal for a normal ethical person.
The Clinton supporters saying that this is fair amaze me. Somehow I doubt they'd think a ballot with only one candidate on it is fair if it was Obama instead of Hillary.
The results in Michigan are not legitimate, and will never be legitimate unless there's a proper revote with more than one candidate on the ballot!
Plain and simple , the rules are the rules... that being stated, if Michigan wants to re-vote, great if not, then the delegates there need to be split 50/50. as Since Obama's name was not on the ballot, there is no reason to believe that Hillary would have gotten half the votes she got, or to believe tht Obama, would not have drawn more voters to the polls, and had more votes in the end.
Second... Florida, again due to the rules should not count, that being stated, I have no problem, with them counting, as they stand, since no one had an unfair advantage...although I highly doubt that the vote count would be what it is, had the votes counted in the first place.
Also, quit gripping at Obama, and Clinton regarding the votes, and how one or the other is causing this, it was in fact neither of them, who caused this, the DNC in each state caused this mess, by voting prior to their turn....and should in fact suffer the consequences...
Hillary, ask yourself a question. Answer honestly (if that's even possible). If you were ahead in the delegate count, and Obama had left his name on the ballot in Michigan and Florida, would you be so adamant to "let the people's votes count"? I think not.
I want a president who isn't a snake. I want a president who I can trust. I want a president who has not dodged indictments. I want a president who, when he or she says they've dodged bullets, they actually have.
You are none of those. You, Hillary, should be ashamed of yourself. Of course, you have demonstrated repeatedly that you have no ethics, honest or shame. It would be too much to ask you to do something honest and fair.
If you win the nomination, in the unlikely event that you win against McCain, I'll start taking bets as to how long it is before you are indicted or impeached. You will completely ruin the presidency for the women and minorities to follow you. But then again, you have no shame. You don't care.
There are too many complications, especially with Michigan, to support this proposal. It's clear that Clinton left her name on the ballot as insurance – what isn't clear is why party officials didn't insist on an "all or nothing" (everyone on the ballot, or no one on the ballot) AT THE TIME. Who knows what the outcome would have been if there had been at least the appearance of a real primary. But it's hardly worth speculating about that, since it certainly wasn't a real primary.
Should the Michigan plan go forward, it would be patently unfair to award Clinton more delegates. Aside from the fact that Michigan would be rewarded for breaking the rules, CLINTON would be rewarded for keeping her name on the ballot when all other candidates removed theirs. As it stands, the fact that Clinton kept her name on the ballot is creating the impression that she did it as an act of protest, as if she did not agree with the DNC decision at the time. She's certainly working hard now to lead people to believe that.
The bottom line is that the Michigan and Florida "primaries" are both irreparably tainted. If the DNC decides to seat the delegates, neither Clinton nor Obama should gain any advantage from it.
You know, for those of you NOT in Michigan, the reason the Governor wanted to move us up was to put some light on the sorry economic problems here, which were not even on the national radar. Suddenly after our vote, the pols were talking economy, and we have seen what has happened across the country.
I have also read that since the election was LEGAL, the votes MUST count, or we can sue. You cannot throw out a LEGALLY held election in this country( except when the Supreme Court decides to decide), and the DNC, as far as I know, can't write laws. So you all who got to vote may not be happy with us, but we are even more unhappy, and we refuse to be disenfranchised!
Go Hillary!
COUNT THE VOTES...I would urge florida and michigan not to vote for a dem in the general election if there voices are not heard now
I don't understand how anyone could think seating the delegates in MI and FL 50/50 resolves the problem. It doesn't! You might as well not seat the delegates at all. If there's no revote in both states then the nominee is not legitmate and I couldn't support that person in the general election.
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!
This is amazing. Yep, the Democrats are right–we need to get out of Iraq immediately, We certainly can't be there showing them how to run a democracy when the DNC can't even figure out how to run a valid election. The rules (signed by both candidates) stated that NO delegates would be seated from MI and FL. Now, you want to apportion delegates from MI based on the votes throughout the rest of the country??? Wait-I like that idea. Let's just tell California not to vote in the general election and we'll just base their electoral college votes on the rest of the country's votes. Sounds like a great plan to my man McCain.
No! Do not play games in the name of fairness. It is hard to swallow the bitter pill, so let this be a lesson for future to not break any RULES. End of story.
A.M.
Houston, Texas
The fact of the matter is this: IF Florida and Michigan counted we would be looking at a different race, period. If Obama is confident in the last 10 contest then he should be confident that the Democratic leg of the American public TRULY SPOKE to what they wanted and include Florida and Michigan.
It will never be washed away that Michigan and Florida was in effect muzzled by the legistature of their states and the overly zealous penalties placed on them by the DNC bylaws committee. If they had counted even just 50% to begin with this mess would be not even discussed. Obama might not be the candidate in the lead in pledged delegates today and/or the race would be SO MUCH closer than it is today requiring it to have to play out to the end without all these calls for Hillary to bow out.
Florida needs to forward their last plan based on their VERY fair everyone's-name-was-on-the-ballot-results on Jan 29th. All the talk about some people stayed home? What they didnt get the memo the other 1.7 million people did – "GO VOTE ANYWAY!"? The DNC needs to NOT vote against Florida or Michigan (again) PERIOD. When those plans are offered up...stop waiting for it to be even more complicated than it is now going into August.
If this is truly about letting FL & MI voters be heard w/o favoring one candidate or the other...here's a simple solution. Add up all the delegates from FL & MI then divide them by 2. Now distribute the delegates equally to both candidates so all the voters of florida and michigan aren't penalized for there states inability to play by the rules. At the same time this doesn't favor either candidate but gets them both closer to the number of votes needed to secure the nomination!!!
I can't believe how afraid the Obama supporters are of any possible resolution regarding Michigan and Flordia. They are so afraid of the truth it hurts. Why can't they accept the fact that Hillary has so much more of the popular vote then is being reported? May then Obama won't be taking long weekends in the hot weather while Hillary is pounding the pavement for Americans. Oh and if only I could take a long weekend in the Virgin Islands.....must be nice.
Both a revote and any configuration in which Michigan gets full representation set an awful precedent. How many times does this have to be said: they broke the rules.
Obama has refused to work with the state legislators and the Clinton campaign to find a way to make revotes work in MI and FL. He dragged his feet with respect to both states knowing that time was of the essence ,and the matters died because of his inaction. A candidiate should not win the Democratic Party's nomination if all the votes are not counted and if the candidiate himself directly or indirectly supported the disenfranchisement of voters. Obama should be ashamed of only supporting those votes which support him. Every one in our party should have the right to vote. Also, Obama should be ashamed of his efforts to try to stop the primary process by pressuring Clinton to quit. Shame on Obama.
Still looking for that great argument from an Obama supporter that explains to me how the stupid rules are more important that the actual voters and their votes being counted. For every reason you give I've got a better response, trust me.
Anyone?
And anyone with a rational thought in their head can tell you why a 50/50 split is not a solution that should be entertained.
Did it really matter that MI and FL moved up their primary? Look at the mess because they did. They should be able to hold a primary when they choose. This disgusts me because Hillary won both and if we get a re-vote, move over Barack. I wish we had a uniformed nationwide primary. I get sick of the caucus states VS the primary states and who leads the way like Iowa. The whole system should be overhauled and we all have the same system in place. Primaries only and ten states at a times for five weeks. Done!
What a stupid non-sense proposal. With other words, this proposal says: Let Hillary win and give Obama some delegates. This is exactly what angers all voters: The Billary's and their supporters believe we are all just stupid.
This is a great plan for Hillary only. Like selfish Hillary, of course her supporters think this is fair. Let me share a bit of information–BARACK'S NAME WAS NOT ON THE BALLOT.
Barack supporters will not agree to anything that is not fair. Hillary kept her name on the ballot, like a snake. While Barack took his name off, which was the honorable thing to do since the rules said the votes would not be counted. That is leadership, not sneaky underhanded, cut-throat tactics from Hillary.
So if Michigan and Florida knowingly broke the rules, their folks will have to sit the primaries out. End of story. Stop cheating, be fair.
And don't get me started on Florida, the infamous Bush State of Disgrace.
Nonononono.................. Either those delegates wont get seated or simply REVOTE. No other option is acceptable
I really don't care what they do, but if there is one thing that is undeniable fact, is that the Michigan (and Florida) Democratic Party are the ones who have disenfranchised their voters, not anyone else. The national party made the rules, the Michigan & Florida Democratic Parties knowingly & willfully spat upon those rules by accelerating their primaries. Both of these states knew well before the primaries occurred what their punishment would be, and nonetheless decided to proceed with those primaries knowing full well that by their actions, their delegates would be disqualified from participation in the national convention.
When will somebody in politics (from either party) stand up and quit blaming somebody else, and take full and unabridged responsibility for their actions. I swear they would get my vote tomorrow if they did that.