April 24th, 2008
12:16 PM ET
13 years ago

The popular vote debate

[cnn-photo-caption image= http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/POLITICS/04/24/campaign.wrap/art.clinton.vote.gi.jpg caption="If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote."] (CNN) - Sen. Hillary Clinton is arguing that she is ahead of rival Sen. Barack Obama when it comes to the popular vote.

"I'm very proud that as of today, I have received more votes by the people who have voted than anyone else," Clinton said Wednesday, one day after her decisive win in Pennsylvania.

Not so fast, says Obama's campaign. Clinton's count includes her wins in Michigan and Florida, but the Democratic presidential candidates agreed not to campaign in those states because they violated party rules by scheduling their contests too early.

Full story

soundoff (627 Responses)
  1. Rebecca

    What does the United States call other countries who change their rules in the middle of an election to favor a particular canidate. Corrupt. That is exactly what Hillary Clinton and her team want to do. Change the rules in the middle of an election. According to the official rules this election is finished and Obama is the winner. Therefore, no more need for another debate so they can team up on Obama 3 to 1 again.

    I know Hillary won't quit until she is knocked out all the way, so Obama please knock her out. Give her a good solid knock out punch that lands her sprawling on the ground. Then give her a couple of good kicks to make sure she doesn't get back up. We're getting sick of her and her buddies nasty mouths.

    April 24, 2008 01:14 pm at 1:14 pm |
  2. Obama Supporter In Indiana

    She scares me to Michigan!

    April 24, 2008 01:14 pm at 1:14 pm |
  3. Jay in Kansas

    Just because their delegates don't count doesn't mean the popular votes don't. That's a good argument.

    Not to mention the delegation will never get to the convention without counting those votes.

    April 24, 2008 01:14 pm at 1:14 pm |
  4. Chief lagosboy, NJ

    Hillary is Pathetic and a disgrace to this country!! This is one Crazy lady!

    Our President Obama 08’ & 12’

    April 24, 2008 01:14 pm at 1:14 pm |
  5. DS in SD

    How could anyone in their right mind fall for this blatant act of voter deception??

    She is scary and needs to be taken out of this race for good by the voters of North Carolina and Indiana.

    April 24, 2008 01:14 pm at 1:14 pm |
  6. Ron

    Not Surprsing. Coming from a lady who always claims that the presidency is the toughest job in the world and that she is the one who is ready to be president on day one yet she often tends to be sleep deprived and often mispoke (Instead of lied) . Do you want her to answer the call at 3 A.M?

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  7. pat

    you obama supporters are foolish if you think he can beat mccain in the general, look at half the states he won red states that he wont carry in the general an if it wosent for the large black vote he would not won them he cant win a large state. right now if you counted the electorial votes clinton is over the top, obama is 60 points behind. if you dont wake up the republicans are going to win again. clinton matches far better against mccain then obama does dont pay any attention to those polls thats what the republicans want you to think.

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |

    No wonder Hillary has such high negatives and is considered dishonest. Then again, the media has been very receptive to her spin. The pundits discuss her fabrications as if they were valid considerations. Why should she stop when she can continue to fool a lot of people a lot of the time?

    OBAMA '08 '12

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  9. Southerner For Obama

    Now you can see for yourself, that is she is elected President, the american people will be lied to and she will definitely distort the truth about any situation to make herself look good. This woman is dangerous!!!! So If Barack wins by one vote or by one delagate, as the Clinton's say, "A WIN IS A WIN". GAME OVER

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  10. Richard

    It's madness not to count michigan and florida. They need to have a revote

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  11. Azar

    Why doesn't some Democratic Party leader stop her from such a blatant lie. Her statement is an insult to all Americans. She is shameless and it would be disservice to all of us if the media doesn't challenge her! Enough is enough!

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  12. FB

    Even though this is a blatant lie, does it matter? Al Gore lost the presidency even though he got the majority of the popular vote. The game is to get the most delegates, not the popular votes.

    In a football game, the team with the most points wins the game, not the team with the most rushing yards. What kind of demented logic does this woman have?

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  13. T-Ruff





    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  14. Denis

    America is a democratic country. All of its citizens are free to express their choice in the leadership.

    The people of Florida and Michigan are their rights and cannot have these rights taken away from them because of foolishness by their leaders regardless of who is at fault, period

    The only way and I mean the only way to resolve the delegate count issue is to have a re-run primary in which Clinton and Obama start off fresh and then the winner and the results will dictate the number of delegates that will be allocated to each candidate. This is a no brainer and simple.

    Having this re-run Primary will unify the Democratic Party once again. This is democracy. Despite what Obama says and spins this is the solution. Now if he objects to this solution, because it is fair to Hillary, Obama and the people, he is not a true believer in democracy and he wants to gain power at the expense of the folks in these two states. Never mind the spin. The agreement is not the issue the people are the issue and the integrity of the Party is at issue.

    If Obama looses then he loses and if Hillary does so be it. If he objects it is only because he believes that he cannot win in these two states but if that is the case he should not be the nominee

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  15. Jo Ann

    Hillary Clinton and that group of nuts she has working for her always
    amaze me. If she can't pay her bills I quess I should not be surprise
    that she does not know who is in head in the count. Just another lie
    and to think that people actually won't this woman to be President.

    If she lies so know what else will she hide.

    Please pleople vote for Obama 08

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  16. Barack the Vote in RI

    How on Earth can Hillary-ous Hillary count votes when both nominees were not even on the ballot???? Especially after the DNC already declared both states were in violation of campaign rules.....obviously desperate and having absolutely no regard for regulations not to mention what is obviously fair. This woman does not exemplefy what a Presidential candidate should be. All you Hillary supporters – are you blind???? and stop telling yourselves she won PA by 10 points! It was more like 8. More distortions. If this were Obama, he would have been crucified by the press already.

    This woman is crazy and would lead this country straight into chaos not to mention financial ruin with her debt ridden campaign.....10 million in 24hrs???? yeah – another lie. I believe it when I see it.

    Superdelagates take note!

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  17. KT

    proof the Clinton camp cannot be trusted – bend and twist in the wind – change the rules – or WHAT rules? – to suit their mood – very, very dangerous – THIS is who you want running the country? She & Bill just won't let go – you think it has been nasty up to now – just wait, when it's all said and done in June, Barack will have the popular vote, the most pledged delegates and the most states won – and folks, they'll do everything they can to wrest the victory away....

    Stand Tall Barack – don't play their games or get in the mud with them – rise above it – show us how the american spirit can still prevail, even in politics.

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  18. mary in new york

    HRC wasn't on the ballot in Michigan but you didn't have to vote for her. In fact, over 200,000 people didn't. If you think about it, her votes mean even more there because if you didn't like her it was easy to just say no – almost like a referendum on her candidacy. As for Florida, neither campaigned and neither was a home town boy or girl so each was on an equal playing field. Finally, the official voting totals in the states others are complaining about haven't been released, but even the guestimates don't change the fact that HRC even without Michigan and Florida, is in this one. It is not the voters fault that the powers that be in Michigan and Florida violated DNC rules. The voters should be heard. Rules are rules but lets be honest about one thing. THe fundamental weaknesses in the delegate allocation process have been highlighted in this election. I just wonder if many of the people who were jumping up and down when Al Gore won the popular vote but lost in the electoral college are now relying on the delegate count to support Obama now. Everybody is full of crap on this one.

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  19. Jonthan Swift

    The fighting has gone on long enough. It is time for the Democratic Party to unite around a candidate. So who should the supers back. That"s easy it is Hillary Clinton. Forget all this nonsense about delegates and popular vote, and the number and "color" of the states each has won. We need to ask, what is this election about. The answer we all know is change. And what is change, nut another way of saying "new"? Who won New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, and New Mexico? That"s right Hillary Clinton.

    I know, I know Obama supporters will say that is just as ridiculous as counting a state where he wasn"t on the ballot or making an issue about some weak connection to a 60"s radical. Well, you just wait. If Hillary doesn"t win in Indiana and loses by double digits in North Carolina, her campaign will come with something as desperate.

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  20. sharon in NY

    Interesting info in this article.....if Obama wins the nomination, only 50% of Clinton's supporters in PA would vote for him, whereas, if Clinton won the nomination, 67% of Obama's supporters in PA would vote for her. Why is that? Why would some Obama folks go to McCain?

    It seems to me that while Obama IS ahead on the "politically correct" popular vote, the people still have less faith in his leadership than Clinton's if some would cross lines to McCain instead of voting for him!

    It seems, also, that Clinton is more popular than Obama in the eyes of many people.

    Both candidates have stretched the truth to look good...that's part of the game. However, I fail to see an experienced person in Obama vs. the experience/exposure Clinton has had, which is why I will vote for Hillary.

    April 24, 2008 01:15 pm at 1:15 pm |
  21. Easy Math

    Seriously, i totally agree with julie – oakland, ca, what kind of hypocritical talk is this, Hillary is conniving and deceptive. She has lost any characteristics of diplomacy and charisma, I am here in London, and believe me, the world does not look at her as a respectful leader. How can u count a state where barack wasnt on the ballot, yet you want to coutn FL and MI. What we must all recognize is that anyone, any democrat who says they will vote for McCain if their democratic candidate isnt the nominee, is voting for reasons other than the issues, voting for possibly race, or something superficial and really they are making an uneducated decision. it is quite ironic, that older whites tend to not vote for Barack, this is a demographic, which is socially acclimated to the same outer appearance of all leaders…..

    Also to say Barack wont win these states cuz she is winning indicates that we fail to see that people who are democrats should vote democrat in the general election, and if they don't like i said before they arent voting based on the real issues (iraq, economy, etc.) which the two Dem Candidates pretty much agree on. So in a sense its saying "well some people are racist , but we can't change them, so they aren't going to vote for barack, and so we can't let him win"

    Notice: i am not saying all people voting for Hillary are racist, that would be ignorant on my part, what i am saying is, if a Hillary Voter says he/she will vote for McCain, well I ask "What is the basis by which you choose your candidate, because its clearly not on the serious issues?"

    CNN you never post my comment, why is this?!?!?!

    April 24, 2008 01:16 pm at 1:16 pm |
  22. Grif

    If the Nominee is chosen, without Florida, and Michigan taken into account, it appear's much more like a Dictatorship, to me...

    April 24, 2008 01:16 pm at 1:16 pm |
  23. Jaison Biagini

    julie, it isn't really that close. just counting the primaries that actually count he has a 500,000 vote lead. that's not counting all the caucuses, because some don't actually report the count just the percentages.

    i don't think florida or michigan should get to revote. why should they after they flagrantly broke the rules?? the would be given more power than any state for breaking the rules??

    also, about those supposed "fair elections" do you know that there have only been 2 states in the primaries where more republicans voted than democrats. fla and mich. so you tell me, who stayed home?? i'd definitely say in mich it was obama supporters who knew he wasn't even on the ballot. in that part of the country, mich has one of the largest black populations. in fla, they had no idea who obama was so of course clinton won there.

    but i think both states do not deserve a revote an all the power it brings. rule breakers should not be rewarded with all this power.

    April 24, 2008 01:16 pm at 1:16 pm |
  24. Chicken Hawk

    Why can't someone just drop a house on this woman?

    April 24, 2008 01:16 pm at 1:16 pm |
  25. Independent-woman-voter-for-Obama

    Oh brother! She is not honest, now is she? How can she even talk about being ahead when Sen. Obama was NOT on the Michigan ballot. And since he is new, people in Florida mostly voted for the candidate they knew.

    The Democratic party set up the rules, and the candidates agreed to abide by them. What's so hard about this? Would the Clintons be SO eager to count FLA & MI if they had lost or not been counted there?! Well now, think not.

    We need a CHANGE in our country. With 81% of Americans believing that our country is headed in the wrong direction, the Democrats stand to win.

    Unless the Clintons completely destroy Sen. Obama with their relentless attacks. Then the Democrats will have ONLY THEMSELVES AND THE CLINTONS to blame if McBush wins!

    April 24, 2008 01:16 pm at 1:16 pm |
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