April 24th, 2008
12:16 PM ET
13 years ago

The popular vote debate

[cnn-photo-caption image= http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/POLITICS/04/24/campaign.wrap/art.clinton.vote.gi.jpg caption="If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote."] (CNN) - Sen. Hillary Clinton is arguing that she is ahead of rival Sen. Barack Obama when it comes to the popular vote.

"I'm very proud that as of today, I have received more votes by the people who have voted than anyone else," Clinton said Wednesday, one day after her decisive win in Pennsylvania.

Not so fast, says Obama's campaign. Clinton's count includes her wins in Michigan and Florida, but the Democratic presidential candidates agreed not to campaign in those states because they violated party rules by scheduling their contests too early.

Full story

soundoff (627 Responses)
  1. caucuses are joke

    First of all delgates count from caucuses are joke. Let's keep to that. Popular vote or not popular vote, chuck all the caucuses delegate votes and do primary on those states and only you will know who the true winner is. Bringing bus load of people and calling it win is not democratic it called intimidation and stealing the votes.

    If you count caucuse delegates and tally those numbers for winning states, and call you are winning more states, more delegates is like 300 years old elitist democracy practiced in England.

    You guys who even thing that caucuses should count and weight as much as primary votes delegates then what Bush did in Florida in 2000 was fair.

    Please don't complain if democrats looses this election if Obama is the nominee. He needs to have back bone, have to stand ground on hard issue before you call him a leader, rather call him a preacher.

    April 24, 2008 01:29 pm at 1:29 pm |
  2. Gary in VA

    All I've got to say is Clinton Math. They should add it to the American School curriculum. I think it's crazy. I thought it was about delegate count. I keep hearing this thing of electability. No one is guarranted to win. Delegate count that's what the republicans did. Are they smarter than the Dems?

    April 24, 2008 01:29 pm at 1:29 pm |
  3. Joe at Boston College

    why is this being called a "debate"?

    Obama did not make an effort to appear on the Michigan ballot, because he knew it did not count, and he is not as conniving as Hillary.

    This kind of mind-numbing logic is exactly why I don't like Hillary: She will do or say anything to further her own ends.

    Any sane person (including Hillary) knows that it is absurd to think that counting Michigan votes as around 90% for Hillary and 0% for Obama on the basis of a canceled primary makes sense. Hillary is aware of her absurdity, but in stark contrast to Obama...


    April 24, 2008 01:29 pm at 1:29 pm |
  4. Jason

    How is this even a debate?!

    If the people of FL and MI knew that their votes wouldn't count, then OF COURSE they're not going to come out and vote like they would in a normal election. Too many people stayed home!

    If I walk into a grocery store and ask the people there to raise their hands if they think I should be president, I can't count those votes in the real election. The people in the store know it doesn't count!

    April 24, 2008 01:29 pm at 1:29 pm |
  5. Barbara

    She is becoming a cartoon character and I can't remember why I was one of her lukewarm supporters many months ago – she should not be turned loose as President or we'll lose whatever tattered bits of respect that the world still has for us.

    April 24, 2008 01:29 pm at 1:29 pm |
  6. Michigan Voter (another one)

    As already stated, Obama was not on the ballot in Michigan. I for one didn't even vote for Michigan's Primary, since I knew my vote wouldn't count for anything. I would guess the same holds true for many others (Floridians too). It seems pretty sad that after 15 months of campainging Hillary just now has the ability to say she is ahead! Too little Too late! Pack it up honey and lets start working on the general election. The Dems need to focus on November and stop arguing with each other. Dems Unite and Vote for Obama!

    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  7. thomasr@yahoo.com

    She said it. It must be true.

    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  8. from the start

    I have said this all along.

    The DNC, Howard Dean and the democratic party elites (Kerry, Shriver and the Kennedys) fixed this primary. They advantaged Obama and sabotaged Clinton.

    They should have stayed out of it and let the people decide through their votes.

    Then no matter WHO won, we would be united.

    But Cheating, name-calling, hating, belittling, mocking and stealing the vote WILL never buy you the General Election.

    Hillary now or later as a write in- either way the lady rocks. She survived the biggest swiftboat campaign in political history. How? By the will and drive of the people who believe in fair play, equality and justice.

    Go Hillary.

    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  9. Oregon has Hope and wants change

    HILLARY is trying to steal this election by convincing people out there that she won the popular vote!!!

    come on HIL Huckabee
    you only want to count now that you are behind, you agreed to the DNC rules and now you want to change the rules in the miidle of the game.........because you are losing honey...

    Good news for this white woman in Oregon

    Rep David Wu just endorsed Obama this morning he is a super del


    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  10. Jack in ND

    The popular vote is compromised as well because Michiganders knew their vote woudn't count, so a great many didn't. As a result, the turnout in Michigan was less than half what it was in states that counted.

    Since it was Obama who wasn't on the ballad, the vast majority of thoswe that didn't vote are likely to have been Obama voters.

    This is a dangerous issue for Hillary to press. Counting Michigan is perceived as grossly unfair. There are many people up here who, despite her negativity, do actually think she would be the better presidential candidate if she won in a fair contest, but stealing Michigan would chase them away.

    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  11. April

    Hillary will win the nomination. Just because FL and MI screwed doen't mean much. Hillary is the better person. More Quilified person. Other sites are saying this election has nothing to do with race or that Hillary is racist. WHAT? Most of Obamas supports are dark skinned and saying some nasty stuff about Hillary. Her followers are not doing this. So, of course, race is a factor. Oh and I am not white either. Just stating a fact!

    Hillary 08'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  12. Wil

    The fact that CNN even gives Hillary any media time for this is ridiculous. She can't win and wasting hard working Americans money on a campaign that has already lost.
    I find it rather disgusting and offensive that she thinks Americans are that stupid to sell this idea about the popular vote!!

    April 24, 2008 01:30 pm at 1:30 pm |
  13. Anonymous

    You cannot make this up. This woman will literally do, spin and say anything in order to garner votes. Long before Michigan and Florida were stripped of their delegates, Hillary Clinton agreed that it was the right and necesary thing to do. Sadly, she has gone back on her word over and over again in hopes of fooling the good folks of these 2 states that she cares about their voice and their rights. She only cares if it suits her political aspirations, and she renders menaingless and insignificant her on morals when she continues to do this.

    The real tragedy here is how she is poorly representing herself and the millions of Americans who want to see a woman as president of the united states. Clearly she has the experience and political savvy to snake her away around washington, but this is not what this country needs or deserves. This time last year I had no clue who Barack Obama was, but it did not take me long to realize that he is a decent man who is better suited to lead this country through this extraordinary mess that we have created. The inefficient and devious politics can no longer be tolerated and accepted as commonplace. Too many people are without jobs and decent places to live, and turning statistics around and flat out lying to the American people about sniper fire and popular vote leads is too much of the old politics for us to handle.

    Hillary has consistently shown that winning at all costs is the only thing that matters in this election for her. Unfortunately for us, we cannot afford to pay the fee.

    April 24, 2008 01:31 pm at 1:31 pm |
  14. daisy- chicago

    you know what, when are the people in this country going to "get it", no she doesnt have the popular vote, he wasnt even on the ballot – how in what concept does that mean she wins????? I would never want someone who uses fuzzy math to control our country. I am sure if it was the other way around, we would have a completely different story. Not only that but, look at how the funds for her campaign are being run – they are in debt – she has run it aground – do you really want this person to be our president??? i am just amazed at what the people of this country are willing to believe and accept.

    April 24, 2008 01:31 pm at 1:31 pm |
  15. Anonymous

    Wow ,is there no end to this womans delusions of grandeur. Since honesty seems to be your biggest probably with just about every living thing in the universe, you might be well served to admit that Obama wasn't even on the ballot for most of those voters and many Democrats didn't even show up knowing full well there primary was not going to count.

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  16. Jane

    Burn it down, Hillary!
    Who cares if you originally agreed to not count Florida and Michigan?!
    All that matters now is that you tell the rest of the voters whatever you need to so that they vote your way!
    If you can get everyone, including the media, to start repeating that you have won the popular vote thus far – you've got it made! The superdelegates will start to use your threshold as the standard!
    So, DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to eliminate this "phoney" lead of Obamas!
    This is your nomination, right? We all knew it was going to be you a year ago! This guy can't just waltz in and take it from you!!! You are Hillar Clinton for crying out loud!
    Just take this thing – who cares about the people who voted for Obama??? They are obviously just millions of zombies who have no idea what is best for them.
    The only one who knows what is best is you!!!

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  17. from the start

    May the best Woman win.

    What a lady

    Stands up under fire.

    Obama can't break 50% with all his vocal support, speeches, money and the bias of the media, flawed caucus format and mocking and jeering his opponent.

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  18. Ig

    Julie, I love your comment. YES Democrats need to unite not just for the party to win the WH, but for the betterment of OUR economy and future. This election is very significant. If we make the wrong choice, I bet we'll pay dearly for it as much as we are paying for our mistake in 2004.
    DEMOCRATS, AMERICANS with reason should unite. PLEASE!!!!

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  19. "Animal

    Hey gang:

    It should be noted the reason why Barack took his name off, is becaue of Michigan moving its primary back.. like Fla.. Anyone who has followed the election closely.. should know this.

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  20. Rob-Las Vegas

    wow she loves to distort the truth and only count what she wants. If you're an american and you really read what she's saying then you know she's saying "i only like the ones i like, to hell with the rest of you"

    In all seriousness, there's a great divide in this party and country. a "dream ticket" would actually be a nightmare, and she's right now the biggest reason for this divide. moving the goal posts and changing the rules are only making the dems look bad, and it's ALL Hillary's fault.

    *sigh* i have little hope left in this party. If they don't win in 08, then Nader's right, this party is useless.

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  21. TONI

    Barack Obama had run T.V. ads the week prior to voting. He broke the rules. We voted here in Florida, Hilary won! We want our votes seated. In my opion since Hilary did not break any of the rules, by the way who were issued by the Republican legislated government in our state. Those votes should be seated, as they stand!!! I have heard Obama state on many occasions that, they both signed off on the rules etc etc etc. But he broke the rules and had an advantage in this state and still lost, big time. Hilarys right we the people are angry. This was not the democrates of Floridas decision. It was the State of Florida run by Republicans. People outside of Florida and Michigan should stay out of it. They dont know how disenfrancised we feel here.

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  22. Jim in Virginia

    Those silly Clinton's live in a fantasy world. He never had sexual relations with that woman, and she has gotten the most votes. This is precisely why I cannot support her candidacy. She twists the truth, ignores the facts, and looks at life through filters of her own creation. When that phone rings at 3 am, I want the person who answers it to be living in the real world, not one they fantasized.

    April 24, 2008 01:32 pm at 1:32 pm |
  23. Rohb BC Canada

    Wow ,is there no end to this womans delusions of grandeur. Since honesty seems to be your biggest probably with just about every living thing in the universe, you might be well served to admit that Obama wasn't even on the ballot for most of those voters and many Democrats didn't even show up knowing full well there primary was not going to count.

    April 24, 2008 01:33 pm at 1:33 pm |
  24. Michael Lorton, Virginia

    Hillary cannot include Michigan and Flordia......they are not considered because they held their primaries early.......Now with that being said, it is another confabulation of the truth.....she is clawing for survival......come hook or crook.......if that were true, then all of the media networks are providing mis-information as to who the forerunner is for the Democratic party nominee......

    April 24, 2008 01:33 pm at 1:33 pm |
  25. Niky

    how can the vote count when the primary was not legal?

    April 24, 2008 01:33 pm at 1:33 pm |
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