April 24th, 2008
12:16 PM ET
13 years ago

The popular vote debate

[cnn-photo-caption image= http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/POLITICS/04/24/campaign.wrap/art.clinton.vote.gi.jpg caption="If Michigan and Florida are counted, Sen. Hillary Clinton is ahead in the popular vote."] (CNN) - Sen. Hillary Clinton is arguing that she is ahead of rival Sen. Barack Obama when it comes to the popular vote.

"I'm very proud that as of today, I have received more votes by the people who have voted than anyone else," Clinton said Wednesday, one day after her decisive win in Pennsylvania.

Not so fast, says Obama's campaign. Clinton's count includes her wins in Michigan and Florida, but the Democratic presidential candidates agreed not to campaign in those states because they violated party rules by scheduling their contests too early.

Full story

soundoff (627 Responses)
  1. Kris from AZ

    I understand that those votes did not count and that is too bad. However, if those votes did not count it should not be used by the master minipulator Hillary to give her credit and thrust her in the popular vote catagory. Hands down. Obama is the popular vote. She is shrugging off all the other states as if they did not mean anything just because Obama won them. She is sure reaching just to look like she is shining. UNITE AMONG DEMOCRATS UNITE COME GENERAL ELECTION TIME!!! PLEASE IT IS OUR TIME. DONT GIVE UP THE SHIP

    April 24, 2008 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm |
  2. Steve

    It's completely laughable to count her votes in Michigan. Hers was the only name on the ballot. If you give the other votes to Obama, she still wouldn't be in the lead.

    But people do need to think about this situation more clearly. From everything I've read on here, both Clinton and Obama supporters have demonized the other side. They're both Democrats! Wouldn't you want either of these two over McCain? It's completely idiotic to say 'I would never vote for the other if my candidate isn't the nominee'. That's so grade school playground.

    The truth of it is...if you want REAL change...you need a Democrat in the White House in November. It doesn't really matter who as they'll both face the same obstacles. Think about it.

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  3. Indy for Obama

    Wow, Hillary. You won a contest where you were the only one the could vote for? You must be SO proud.

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  4. Tommy

    She is CERTIFIABLE! Keep a straight jacket nearby. She also needs to be on a different medication to deal with the delusions of grandeur!

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  5. greg

    Tlhis is exactly why I don't support Hillary Clinton. I'ts not enough that she lied to the world about Bosnia 4 times but now she wants to count delegates from Michigan and Florida even though she agreed with the other candidates that it would not count. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. She will do and say anything to win this election. Lie, steal, cheat, whatever it takes she's willing to go as low as possible. Now were supposed to forget that those votes weren't counted. I'm so tired of her and her. If she feels she's the best candidate, why couldn't she provide universial healthcare? It's been 15 years since she was first lady and we still don't have universial healthcare. Every word that comes out of her mouth is a lie. Dont be fooled.

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  6. Grif

    You said it! Not me.... Either people do/don't Vote??? Alternative??
    The Election is Legal....

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  7. Tim

    The only way she can claim the lead is through a spurious and flagrantly unfair metric that has nothing to do with the rules in which she began the primary season. A new day, a new shift in goal posts.

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  8. Phil in KC

    This is one of the things that has turned me off about Hillary. She agreed to play by the rules when they were set. But now that they are working against her, she has decided the rules do not apply.
    I'm sorry, but she is NOT ahead in the popular vote because those votes in MI and FL do NOT count. Hers was the only name on the ballot in one state. And there were many people who did not bother to vote in both states because they understood that their votes did not count. Therefore – if you count those votes you punish all the people (including those in the other 48 states) who played by the rules.
    If they want to go back and hold a new vote where both candidates are on the ballot and everyone who wants to vote has a chance to, then I would say those votes would count.
    Unless that happens though, Hillary is being very disingenuous. She is twisting the facts. She is propagandizing. I would be ashamed if I were her.

    April 24, 2008 12:38 pm at 12:38 pm |
  9. Cnn For Me

    This woman is nuts.. N.. U.. T...S, NUTS.

    And nobody out here supporting her sees it. I could take this same logic and profess that, 'I am a millionair'.
    If you count all the money I will make in my life time. I wonder how well that will go over when getting a bank loan.

    agian may God help us.

    April 24, 2008 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm |
  10. cynthia

    what planet is Hillary living on ? and the media is letting her continue in this farce

    April 24, 2008 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm |
  11. Lloyd

    This is what irratates me about Clinton. She thinks that we are stupid. If Obama had his name on the ballots in those states, he probably would have one. How ignorant does she think we are?

    April 24, 2008 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm |
  12. Greg

    Whoa, wait a minute! Why not count the people that WOULD have voted for Sen. Clinton if they were still alive? The DNC is disenfranchising and discriminating against the breathing challenged.

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  13. KEN

    This is being dishonest, insincere, untruthful, deceitful, hypocritical, misleading, duplicitous AT ITS WORST !!
    This is why she CANNOT BE TRUSTED and her NEGATIVE NUMBERS are so HIGH !!!!!

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  14. Patty Morse

    i don't see that there is anything to debate about. Unfortunately for the people in Florida and Michigan, their votes DID NOT COUNT. So Clinton can spin it all she wants, but those votes still don't count.

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  15. lt

    This makes no sense for so many reasons it is almost funny.

    1. The race is decided by delegates, not votes. Both candidates would have campaigned only in the largest states if all they needed were raw votes.

    2. The "popular vote" is not a reliable metric of a candidates support. Caucus states do not record raw votes, but award caucus delegates proportionally. Some states do not even report a "popluar vote". To suggest it as valuable grossly devalues voters in caucus states.

    3. To add Michigan's vote to Hillary's total is utterly nonsensical. Not only did she agree, with all the other candidates, that it wouldn't count before the race (as she did with FL), but she was the ONLY major candidate on the ballot. Her "count" doesn't award Obama ANY votes from MI, even though full 45% of people there elected to cast "anti-hillary" uncommitted votes, rather than select the only name on the ballot.

    Think rationally, people.

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  16. Louis

    EARTH TO CLINTON SUPPORTERS: How can you possibly support such a blatant hypocrite? Clinton officially agreed long ago that Michigan and Florida votes would NOT count because they violated party rules by moving up their primaries. None of the candidates campaigned in these states. Obama's name was not even on the ballot in Michigan. By what insane logic can Clinton now claim these votes count when she already agreed they would not count? If you agree with Clinton, please explain in detail why this is not hypocritical and an insult to all discerning voters.

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  17. Mike in Minneapolis

    This really is disgusting.

    I don't understand how the DNC isn't reprimanding her for this kind of tactic.

    She agreed that the delegates from FL and MI would not be seated. She agreed not to campaign in either state.

    But now that it's convenient to add the votes cast in the two states to her metric, she's claiming that they should count.

    Honestly– this isn't just a shameful tactic that is making Barack Obama look bad for doing the right thing, it's a blatant stab in the back to the DNC.

    The rules were clear. Hillary agreed to them. It is so disturbing that neither the DNC or the media are calling her out for such a gross offense.


    And then you add in the fact that Obama wasn't even on the ballot in MI and this is laughable.


    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  18. TheTide

    So she agreed – in writing and on tape – that these 2 states would not count. Obama wasn't even on the ballot on one of them. Then when she started to lose – she took on this holy crusade to count the votes THAT SHE JUST SAID DIDN"T MATTER MONTHS BEFORE. So if I am reading this correctly, CLinton only wants whats right when it benifts her.


    She made her bed, she can lie in it. Even if you count all votes, and give Obama the undecideds on the Ballot he wasn't even on – then he is ahead. The only way she gets the popular vote is after a whole lot of "ifs" and rule changing. She is grasping at straws.

    After Indy and NC it will all be over though.

    And her argument that if this were the Rebulican race, she would have won by now – is laughable. Well then hill, go run with the GOP – since you think so much like them.

    Obama in 08 – Dems in 08

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  19. Jay

    Obama knows overall MORE people voted for her. Name on or off the ballot she has more votes.

    and to the Michigan voter who said we "kind of had to vote for Hillary"...WHY??? You could have voted un-commited like Obama and his camp were pushing. Or not voted at all. But I have a strong feeling you did not vote for her at all.

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  20. ben two

    Counting MI or FL would be flat wrong.

    The decision was made by the party and agreed to by the candidates. Campaigning didn't occur. Many voters didn't participate. The ones who did acted on name recognition alone.

    For HRC to suggest otherwise speaks volumes about her character; willingness to change rules mid-game because it would benefit her.

    That's grimey.

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  21. Swiss in Canada

    Can somebody PLEASE explain to me why Ms Clinton can include the votes from Michigan and Florida?

    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  22. MC, Pa


    April 24, 2008 12:44 pm at 12:44 pm |
  23. Alex Stone

    Shame on Hillary-Bill Clinton. Didn't she sign the pledge that Michigan and Florida wouldn't count? If campaigns don't matter why doesn't she just put her name on the ballot and go home to Scranton where her father was from? It's one thing if she wants an honest debate about revotes. But it's another thing if she wants votes she agreed wouldn't count to all of a sudden count because she is behind in delegates.

    April 24, 2008 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm |
  24. Fedia

    Hillary! Do you really believe Americans are stupid????? Shame on you.....

    April 24, 2008 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm |
  25. Candi

    If Hillary wants Mich and Fl votes to be counted then voters should go back to the polls and vote. If not then no. Let's be fair Senator Clinton and Supporters. If this was Obama supporters asking this it would be that the rules are rules and we should not break them. No double standards please. '

    If this is not going to be fair game, then a lot of people will not vote come November no matter what anyone say. The Republicans will still win because of Hillary and her sneaky tactics and eagerness to overthrow the DNC.

    As for as her supporters, you of all people should know rules are rules and that is how you got elected. Stop pushing for Hillary to get things revoked. This is teaching our children bad behavior and getting rewarded and also dividing this election party.

    Stop the madness.

    April 24, 2008 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm |
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